Episode 105- Tyler G and the critical Phases of Flight

Tyler G is on the board of the Canadian Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association and he’s taken on trying to solve a tough problem in our sport right now: To create a syllabus and model for learning to speed fly safely. Speed flying, especially in North America is still totally cowboy and there’s a vacuum for information. And it’s taking its toll. Accidents, often serious are plentiful and the YouTube culture is driving the desire for the thrill but pilots are skipping the necessary educational steps. Right now learning is 100% dependent on who you are learning from, and many “instructors” are unqualified. Many just learn on their own, often with disastrous results. But the culture also resists ratings and regulation. Bottom line, change is necessary and Tyler is trying to figure out the best way forward. In this episode we discuss how new pilots should learn; how to find a good instructor; if learning paragliding first is necessary; speed riding lift access in British Colombia; why speed pilots should fly with a reserve; the dangers that exist at all skill levels; the lack of margin in proximity flying, creating an ecosystem of safety, and a lot more. This one has a lot of great info regardless of what you fly and what level you are. Enjoy!


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Show Notes:

  • The critical phases of flight
  • Air density and safety
  • The lack of syllabus for speed flying
  • Speed flying vs Paragliding and accidents
  • Developing a system- ratings and regulation
  • How to find a good instructor
  • The dangers of being self-taught
  • Fly with a reserve!
  • Preventing accidents in the early stages
  • Maintaining a margin
  • Dealing with the Legal System
  • the ecosystem of flying
  • Attracting the youth

Mentioned in this episode:

Cade Palmer, Patrick Hennessy, Jamie Lee, Rich Kennedy, Chris Grantham, Bernhard Kalin, Andrew Dunning, Michael Dunning, Will Burks, Cross Country Magazine, USHPA, Asher and Chris Zalchendler

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Episode 105- Tyler G and the critical Phases of Flight

00:00:28 - 00:05:06

Hi there everybody. Welcome to another episode. The cloud base mayhem my guest. Today is Tyler Gillis Gillies. He goes by Tyler G slut easier. He's a member of the H.. backboard up in Canada as a pilot in squamish BC paragliders and Speed Wings and super in speed flying in he reached out to me a few months ago actually before the X. APPs and With some concerns about a couple of things he'd heard on the mayhem from other speed pilots and also just want to talk about what's going on and in that realm in terms of teaching and creating a syllabus. And you know it's all pretty wild west Cowboy certainly here in North America There I think a little farther along in in Europe but certainly it's a pretty new sport relatively a certainly rosalita paragliding and hang gliding and a lot of people are just doing. The self taught thing just turning what I did and you know there were. There aren't really any. Instructors are too many places you can go to learn and so we talk about a lot of that in what's happening behind the scenes to try to get that kind of up to snap up to par and talk about some of the risks. Talk about how people should be learning how to speak. Live and where you can go to do that and some of the things you need to know if you're just seeing it on youtube see now amazing and awesome and fun it is and you want to get into it but you know it's it's It's hard to navigate that space right now and tyler is trying to assault that. He in in some other guys up there in Canada in there are some here in the states too and they're they're borrowing from what's happening in Europe and France and Switzerland and stuff because there's a lot more pilots over there. So that's what this one is all about. Enjoy Tyler. Awesome DAB on the mayhem. I really appreciate your time and reaching out to me before the X. APPs on that's taken us a little while to get together hope you had a good summer but Why don't you tell everybody who you are and why we're having this talk today? My name is tyler. Gillis and on the board of age each packing leading candidate represent British Columbia. which is the province? I live in Also president of the local uncle the West Coast soaring club. And we're GONNA talk about more specifically how does it to go system of our current three flight including yes so I was kind of excited to talk about. This is well You know as we talked about a little bit before we get going. We've had this kind of the issue here. The last year's Sun Valley and almost like two different camps between you know paragliding speed flying and it just you know. It's it's been really frustrating Austrian. Because I really want you know. I don't want this to be like the the skiing and the snowboarding of the eighties. You know. We're all Jason the same thing in the same high and Trying to do it safely and you know just I really want to you know. Fold everybody together and I understand. That's kind of one a year concerns and pursuits as well. Yeah I think that a lot of the challenges that we're seeing when it comes to the dealer scored people getting heard from the fact that we just haven't degree and how do we. What are you guys working on with compacted to to satisfy that or to to work towards that goal absolutely over the past four years? I've been working on. Developing a full rating system including so abyss definitions demonstrated skills curriculum recommended operating limitations and endorsements for speak climbs be riding and so this would be a full training system very similar to hang gliding and paragliding where people will learn. Focus on skills that you need as a speak wire specific skill sets. You'll require if you're into speed riding on or watch the and do you feel like you know in your experience because you fly both your multi wing wool.

00:05:09 - 00:10:03

Is it it appropriate for someone. Who's you know really site? They see the videos online and they see speed flying. Can you just learn to speak. Why with no paragliding background or what? What do you you advocate for is a fantastic question? And it's something that I've been mulling over for a while is it should people learned to paragliders first and then learned to speed why And what we're seeing out there and a lot of schools that have been sort of operating in the gray area for a long time is that people are coming to fly. People that WANNA speak. Lie Aren't aren't interested in paragliding. boyishly all repair by. They WANNA learn to speak by. That's what they focus on or if they're coming from skydiving they WANNA learn to speak lot regardless of whatever background is and that we should be teaching them to do act specifically with the intention and the education behind it to learn how to do that safely right. Now we're SORTA got these systems. Were saying okay. Well if you need your P. to then I won't throw then you're good enough to throw you a speedway And then you know you're you're probably but there's a lot of things that are very specific to why speedway that don't overlap on paragliding deserves its own system and syllabus to do at Safeway anyway when you're thinking about people that are just going through the motions as what we want to avoid. I think if we're saying learn to Paraguay I I think keyboarding when you go through the motions just to appease the system versus actually being engaged content and and learning rest. You say that your first hawks in your purse flights can't be on a very large way Or a small a ring or something like that which is probably where you would start. You'd start or your first whites on the lighter but you would be doing learning skills to say. Yeah totally I mean I and I brought this up in in previous shows with Patrick and cade and some of the you know some of the speed pods. We Pat on the on the show in the past. But one of my you know Just in my own experience. I've always called speed wings dumb wings because they're they're so easy to fly in a sense like not dropping into canyons like you. You know you see Jamie Dylan New Zealand stop. I mean not not the real expert stuff but to launch a hill and fly around and have a good time on speed wing Can Be done pretty quickly quickly. You know they're they're they're pretty they're harder to collapse and they're easy to steer and they're they're they're they're forgiving in a sense You know they're not very forgiving if you're flying right on the ground and really going fast. But they're forgiving wings to fly and so I've always struggled with how to if they if a pilot doesn't come from paragliding background to to develop enough respect early on when you're not that good with a speed wing. I mean it's hard Hartford. It's hard to tell somebody about avalanche safety unless they understand snow. You know what I mean. It's you can't see it and the same with speed flying. It's it's hard to project or teach respect without For what that wing can do if flown poorly Wurley without. I don't know do you see them going with this. It's it's hard to you know without understanding Flight Surfing okay. Here's an example. Surfing is is you know. It's hard to get rid of surfing because you get so little time surfing. You know you spend all your time in the water paddling out. I'm trying to get into position. But and then you get a second ride. And that's a big ride speed planks. Same Way the the the ride is quick. You don't develop a lot of time. Well okay I I definitely understand what you're saying And when you say that speed wings wings I agree in the sense where you can develop bad habits without your wing telling you this right there you go yes and and That's where people get hurt you know. It's bad botches and bad landings But one thing that you're probably you're you're probably going to do in speech is you're going to get way. More launches way more landing many word on a paraglider and those are the two critical phases of flight. Sure sure everything in between is like literally you stick a sack of potatoes harnessed and it will be just fine drew steed wings. They're all dumplings really.

00:10:03 - 00:15:17

Maybe they fly themselves. I mean you've seen those parallels you buy whatever the off while. Yeah we're we're the we're the we're the bad part of the equation early with the that's when it starts to get weird weird so does learning you need to learn these skills and safe environment and progress at an appropriate pace. But it doesn't mean you can't learn. They say he's a flight or laws. Aveiro dynamics or weather all of that that you learn in paragliding in a speak lines this course just as you would. If you were to go learn England so you can learn all those his life back of Air Arrow Dynamics launch air and air regulations dot weather. But you would start learning at specific to. How does it affect you as Aziz speed flyer because one of the things that you probably wouldn't fired as a paraglider that really affect you as a spitfire is going density altitude where Interbay day when it heats up and now when you were landing at one thousand is our land? Three thousand feet from an air density perspective that that really changes specials Changes how you are going to view adding especially because of the because the speed is much more notice despoil you say wow you know what I came on Atlantic way fascinating idea that I am Tom and so that's one of the things. When you're learning speed cry it's sort of it's a lot very similar to that para motor which was started by flying? You know early morning late in the evening when there's ice bats and it's also very stable able and so that's not what you learning impaired live. You're learning you know you're you're starting to launch what to do at eleven and in your opening to get off reply so you're learning all this information to teach you how to fly of paraglider isn't there's quite a bit that isn't relevant. If you take take that weather information and now Taylor to climb Sagarmatha speedway versus pushing these people to learn all this information that's relevant for a paraglider. What happens is they can get rush during the information to flicy speedway or even get the permission necessary is another question is I think what happens is based on the resources finance all his key to this point though I fly I'm just GonNa go speed St Raining? Go Fly all right. Pardon of course you have to buy your week so now that you're never gonna fly because you don't want to fly by you don't have interest by water order mismatch mismatch although I do understand the arguments where people say that line of Thera Glider. There's GONNA provide you some skills to fly. Feed with no doubt any form of aviation is going to provide information for babies. I've lied swing a few weeks. Go and do a friend of mine got his instructor license for gliding are certain learning. I mean they all they all help flyer speed wing absolutely they all so help each other and when I learned to speak why I went maitre I went to the closest thing I could find in a speed clients through other time which was Of course by rich Kennedy down and I mean the guy's incredible job of developing overseas in. It guy very sharp. You know this. This is an extremely smart nerdy people in our community and then all of the great syllabus and I learned how to speed why specifically learned all about you know. NC Out to all these very specific Manuchehr that were important for flying safely learning took lights actually out. We improve my skills with a pair body pilot. I mean it. All it all feeds into the same system off into your brain urged with no matter what you're flying so what you know right now Gavin with Laura wants to go become speed flying instructor. What what do I have to do to accomplish that? You want to become a speed client structure are you at right now is if we decide. Get groups we presentative Bid We've achieved all of our goals for this framework in syllabus development. What we would do as organization is hire somebody who is an instructor that has been doing this for a long time probably from Europe Europe to come over and do an instructor's course to teach current speed flying people that already have a base or other instructors offers to be become speed climbing instructors so unit there they can do the skills they understand curriculum and operating limitations and their talk out of the instructors? But you're talking about what you're trying to develop.

00:15:17 - 00:20:00

I'm dying about right now if I if I just I wanted to become an instructor right now. What what hoops do? I have to jump through own right now. Like the wild west. It's it's like anyone can. BSP Clients Doctor. You see what happens. is they'll be what's happening right now is there is a vacuum for information on how to do it. So you see people that are trying trying to build up. Some people have done a really great job of it I've had quite of help on this project of Mine Chris Grantham for Blind Abbas spoke fly above all down in Santa Barbara Roots. Kennedy's helped a lot Mark Shaw of the PA.. His provide a lot of information. Asian Asher Chris from ski and apply the they've been doing camps and incredibly incredibly in-depth Kaspersky speed riding in France Norway Zealand while Devon incredible syllabus. So there's these guys that are are fantastic better feeling that educational back hue whenever but then you have these other people on the other side of the coin which are filling that vacuum as well. But it's you you know it's not great as you're experiencing some of the areas that you're so what you're saying. Is it just if you want to be an instructor you you can call yourself an instructor and go teach regardless of your background gardens of your ability regardless of your safety record. You know. It's it's there's not really. There's not there isn't a syllabus yet. That's what you guys working on him. CANDIDATES CLIENT RECOGNIZES IN H. So so it has nothing to do us. It would be people wanted to come in and say you word wanted learn type for it. It's like well you know figuring out. We don't have anything to do with that. So so there's no there's no regulating body fat has decided to say. Hey guys you're you're with us. Yeah and you even seen some of the manufacturers trying to help fill that void there even seeing you've seen on put out these how to videos out apply on Rere is your speedway because even they're seeing this educational boyd because we you know we want to prevent so that we don't have the assets over. I don't know if you heard the the episode with in I should've pulled it up. Br Bernie forget Swiss Guy He was saying that the statistics right now in speed flying worse than wing suiting. I don't know if that was backed up. But that's what's happening in Europe that I I think they're much farther along than then we are deceased. It's been there more and there's a lot more people doing it. And it sounds like like you said yeah. I'm not familiar with their systems in their syllabus in their kind of rating system in regulation and stuff but it sounds like they're quite a ways ahead of where where we are Certainly but it's still like it's the sports man it's it's taken. Its it's toll. I mean I don't I couldn't verify that statistic at all the one thing I can say it's being fine for sure. Is that none of the. Data's statistically interestingly significant at all statistician would look at you and laugh because we just don't have enough data you know. How are these accidents being recorded boarded? You know it's the same issues that we have here. North America comes to accident statistics. We just don't have enough data to making a real sense of it. There is certainly. I don't know I don't I don't have anything. I don't no no. I don't know what statistics he's quoting so I can't comment on it. We're not seeing the same thing here. I don't think we're seeing the same thing in north. America seems seems to be based on the last study. I saw that when I launched the bears for Newsreel they included many wing exclude wings into analysis to find out if there any wing kite so anybody. I'm meeting wings. If there was any wing that was more dangerous than about her and they couldn't armed any solid. Yeah I think I saw the same thing I think in this last year the accidents. PG and speed flying were about the same Yeah they're always bad but there wasn't I don't think I don't think it. Lean one way or the other but then of course the start saying okay well but how many people participate in each. You know you know.

00:20:00 - 00:25:06

Data gets tricky. So they were they were they were doing it. Based on per capita got you work or I know the guys over at the skin. Why the Ayrshire and Chris you know the I asked him about that? Then you know they were saying something different than that Swiss. This guy was saying so probably Beta. Yeah very population dependence and also so. I can make that. Say What you want to say if you auburn sort of bias as well sure sure. So what are you know when you guys meet when you're board meets what what's the. What are the arguments? What are the what? What's the the festival right now? Just kind of trying to get this Trying to get this kind of syllabus in place getting instructors at a at a level where you feel comfortable that they could go out in and teach in the right way. I think that one of the questions which we're all we're you know we're feeling mulling over one of the questions that would be. Hey if we decide put a raid system together we wanNA say speed flyers. Hey come be part of this group. We we support you. And here's an education system mature influence as we will. What would would you be interested in? Joining or idea is just to cowboy. Oh you want nothing to do with it. You know you're finding the man and that's the end of it And so that's the question. All the speed choirs speed routers than I know. I'm very much want to be part of the a lot of them are bending the truth would be part of it now in the sense where they'll just go there too but really they're just a speed wire they doc ladders so they're desperately trying to get in but you know obviously we're driving through a different path right now I think after listening to your previous podcast by your one thing I heard from him was that he really wanted regular chapter. Seeing on their places irradiation training and education who he was he thought. Wow this is a really were do you. Even someone made it out is more in that arena of the cowboys identifies the value of a rating system. After being part of that group. We were talking about before we before we started recording. We were talking about that. You know something that I see and paragliding is even though there is the rating system and there is is kind of the regulation aspect of it. So much of your first fifty hours depends on who you go to you know there. Are you know they've if you're a paragliding instructor you have to be an opera rated paragliding instructor. You've gone through the courses in but you know it's still so dependent on that person's person's personality in their background and their ability to teach you know some people are better at it than others and so it really depends on who you go oh to And in that could have lasting effects in your you know your progression as a pilot How should if someone listening to this show? That's maybe paraglider or that doesn't fly that wants to become a speed pilot How where did what would you recommend they do? Where where do you go find the right person to learn from man okay? That's a great question. I think that you know one of the one of the things that you need to definitely Mesh with a map person is is you know values and personality Can you deal with them telling Sharon you what to do. And how do you like their style. do feel that they're gonNA give you all the information that you need to do at Safeway. When I was first looking for a pair bodies I went and interviewed every single instructor that was close to? I didn't just go to one went to every single one of them and tried tried to choose one that I felt really cared about what they were doing and was GonNa make sure that we learned everything that we needed to to yard and fly well progress. Well is easy and in our local tune in you look at the top pilots kind. They're all coming from water to instructors there in say that has to do with their ability to put out really great pilots. So if you're trying to find a good instructor do the same go interview. I talked to people. We speak clients going to be really hard probably to find somebody locally because they're just are so few here in North America but there's a lot over in Europe using rich these still teaching baller but that is a fantastic place to learn.

00:25:07 - 00:30:00

The Earth is pretty softeners pretty forgiving. And it's a great program. You can get a lot of flights that day. I think I did somewhere between fifteen and twenty a day. That is a lot a lot of launches and landings which is what he billed as as a new pilot is that skill to really dial in their launch right after each other Giovanni that muscle memory break implementing. Yeah soups is amazing. I was I was GonNa ask you another question and I'll see go ahead. Yeah the other thing that we're was concerned when their insurance and deal with this and you know we talked to her are insurers may not see difference anywhere else sir. Hagar's they don't see a difference and don't care what size you are you guys self insuring you know if you're familiar with the R. G.. Okay so you've you've got you've got an underwriter you've got some other. You know an established insurance company. That's doing it across across Canada writer. Okay it's it's national. Okay got you and from what I understand speaking to simply age backboard. The insurance also doesn't care what side which is why I would begin starting to split hairs because there's a lot of disagreement between manufacturers azures people in the industry of what what size and what wing loading are we not growing many wing speed wing. or where do we draw the line. A lot of debate about that right. You're you're talking about before again for start recording you've got kind of a unique situation relation there. One of your skiers that you guys are allowed to literally speed ride Wa. This gear is open This is something we we. We don't do here. We have this one hundred fifty foot rule During operating hours just to protect the the skiers How how do you guys you were saying that? That's you know you. You're obviously a little worried about that because you wanted to last. That's a really cool. That's an amazing opportunity. So what what if I just showed up the deck. You know there tomorrow on a on a ski run. Could I just do that or do I have to sign some documents do I. Ha- is there a waiver. Is there you know. Do you guys check my ability ability. Yes so we do. Have the ski resort here in DC. We negotiated rip management in the resort. Andy Foster over. There has been an advocate for us. He's awesome and they love us. We held a big flying there to celebrate great opening as for us in the spring. And you know they can wait to get more. They were so happy with the results are turned out so it was a great experience. So if if you were to show up there you would have to have insurance so you'd have to be a rated pilot and You also have to sign some documents events and I. I'm not really sure we do site breathing. Kurt sure that we do My Guy Down There Sean Dillon. He's done a great the job really maintaining a relationship with handy and ensuring that we keep that And Yeah we're allowed to do on peace so we can actually see arrive which means touching which is awesome Of course just like you would. If you were skiing or snowboarding you have to avoid other people we put in rules. Everyone else gets right away so if anything happens it's completely tweeter completely your fault whether they tried you off or whatever it is on and we'll get nothing does happen that we can continue you too far. That's what it's all about. How do you regulate How do you regulate that in terms of you know you have to have the you have to sign the waiver? You have to be an H.. Back member you have to have the bag insurance. How do you keep people from just showing up at the left and gone up? Speed riding without that It's a small mountain and it's difficult to just sneak onto okay to have a lift. It's passed I mean if somebody's sneak off amount and they're gonNA sink on the mountain. But you know the rules are that you check in with guest services and you get a special ass. Okay especially Gotcha and they check they check in with you and make sure that to her your members so they can go on the website. It's always the type Indra member number confirm occur. You are number. Okay Gotcha cool. That's kept it the mountain but the mountain is basically that. That's your firewall is.

00:30:00 - 00:35:02

The mountain is not one you guys standing there every day. No No. It's it's the mountain. Okay Gotcha cool. You mentioned when you first reached out to me that you know some of the things that you'd heard on the podcast were worrisome. Bring those up and down yet again. I think some of the things. That were worrisome word. What would come out somebody who as being using the resources that they have available but mostly self taught where sometimes it sounds like? This is the most logical thing to do but reality you. It should be doing something different. Certainly one of the things. That was the most worrisome is not flying with a reserve always live with a reserve geared. You're really that didn't yeah okay. So even if you're just proximity flying even if you're just speed riding yeah I I mean most through the mountains here in DC you're going to spend A certain period of your time with twentieth altitude sued away from the mountain. Because you're GONNA have to fly into your proximity line and then fly away from that proximity line at some point. We have very you places where you can start right at. The top proxy fly landed the very basic mountain. Okay so there's going to be opportunities where you can if you were down honors something. Where do you get reserved? Another big one big site for wind year. Is this Garmisch too. But you know you could throw a reserve at almost any point during flight off the cheap. There's no reason to wear reserve there. Plus it has ballast and wing loading great fun for speak wire so why not. Yeah why I. I've known a few people that have passed away. That is not a reserve. I would assume for watch. How K? Yeah that's totally new to me. I never used reserve speed flying and certainly there. There are times when you're right. I'm away from the hill. Just hadn't been something I again. I was cowboys and I have never been instructed in anything speed flying as just a paraglider and I figured it out but so that's probably one of the things that makes you winge yeah. Most new pilots are not proximity clients. But if you were to be able to pack one of Hansie's lines into like a thirty second video he'd be like wow that is just amazing incredible but to go out and expect that the entire sport are doing lines like heavy is just. It's not happening so he's talking on Youtube of speed. Wires Climbs Lines there at the Pinnacle of the sport. That's not what it's like liked or early pilots. They're not dropping into these canyons and valleys in doing softer sure. Sure sure is is Are you seeing You know in in paragliding. We see accidents at every level you know beginner novice because they don't know Intermediate Syndrome we call it intermediate syndrome impaired pear lime soon. We have the same speed flying as well. I'm sure you do you think you're better than you are. And then you have the expert Halo Center. Mike you're really good and you are really really good but you you get complacent at do you see her. Are People dropping it every end in speed flying as well like the guys that are drop we've got a few guys here Andrew Dunning and Michael Dunning. And we'll burks. I mean these guys are are. They're doing the same stuff that you're seeing jamie deal in the videos. It is awesome. And they're really bad and they put a lot of time into it. But are you seeing you know. Are you seeing people at every end. Blow it absolutely absolute beginners. You know right now. I think we have a lot. We can prevent in the early stages because we just don't have a great educational service so we can be prevented a lot of stuff and the early stages intimate immediate syndrome. It's GonNa get ya no matter who you are so you whatever sport you're lying or whether whoever career instructor wise always tried to be called visited of intermediates in Europe and in the guys in Rapid Pinochle while it's kind of there is to be pushing it is to. I wish that line of what they're capable of all the time. So you're GONNA have those guys go in any sport as well. Yeah that's what worries me about. You know has always worried me about wing suiting. You know just the accidents there. There's no margin Arjun suit you're live you're dead and then you know with with very rare exceptions to that but and you're not that much slower. I mean you're slower. You're not terminal obviously and stuff but you're you know you're here you're again. You're flying with very little protection. Mary very fast. I mean the stuff that these guys are doing in the canyons.

00:35:02 - 00:40:00

So Bitch and is really is really amazing but man. You're not far from a mistake. There you know a little bit weird air a little gust or down flush. Certainly these are the things that get us in paragliding and can't imagine I don't know it worries me because in wing suit proximity stuff. It's the rush is never match unless you get a little bit closer little bit faster little bit deeper you now. That's what you just. That's the thing that gets them. I'm told from guys that did all the time is it. Just you got the you. Just keep pushing that a little bit for a little bit further a little bit further and and then man there's not much margin whereas impair. Glad You keep pushing that. There's a lot of margin and got we've got time to deal with stuff But it is that I. I guess the inevitable -ness of it is makes me nervous rolling the dice. Kinda I mean. We'll just just you. You know if because because that rush is is diminishing in all of these sports. It's never the same. The first time you hop off a mountain is the best flight. Most of us will will ever take because it's like wall. Are you kidding me but then you know then you fly your first five K and ten K in one hundred and you gotta go two hundred K.. And in the speed speed flying. It's it's you gotta get closer faster and flying deeper more committing line. Yeah absolutely In there I can see that. I can't really say that they're that it's any more than any other sport that were doing when you're on the pinnacle if you're flying these lines if you're one of these guys like these guys are at the article on the sport and you know they're pushing themselves if we were to take those the same no from a speed perspective twenty Riders are like twelve to fifty miles hours or rattling paragliders speed wings. Twenty two ninety miles now. So you're north made your ninetieth tentacle. You're really ripping At so we're fast. But you know hang gliders are going a lot faster than us and there's a lot of there's a lot of younger guys hang gliding if you've seen house proximity yes. It's pretty cool so you when you're playing was speed and and the terrain desolate reducing your margin of error absolutely. But I think what we're doing there's a mistake in and defining speed proximity flying Oh they're go- and and most of the people that but I know that that five menu wings are not doing that level of processing inclined if you were watching their videos on youtube that we probably rather boring good. It's you know they're you know. It takes a lot of skill to to get that level where you can trust Kabila's trust aired whether you're in To be able to to pull that stuff off your cry flying law again. You're up at the Pinnacle of the sport. You know we only go to paragliding. Is that people pushing to razor thin margins and they're definitely definitely get hurt every single Baio to you know people are getting hurt news unfortunate. But that's what we see. A Pinnacle of our sport. People are are pushing. That's where you're doing a lot of times I'm like why am I flying as whether if I was at home I would doc be flying minutes. I'm you know it's it's hard to Sure that's the downside of Contra sure are you jeff are you guys seeing You know there. Was this big buzz with speed flying. Just like there was with Kaiser Vein. Kaiser vans relabeled pulled out in the last few years are are you still seeing is speed flying still booming. It's a good question I I don't know I don't we don't have the data for that. I would imagine that it that it's still I still. We'll see a lot of people getting into it. It's hard to say. I wish advocate until we implement something and start seeing people coming coming. It's hard to. It's hard to better weather weather. It's growing what's happening One one thing I can say is that eventually the competitive waters. Yeah that's been interesting The Guy The guy's your locally who you know were just who really you just gotTa be flying. You know they went down and got there you have to. You have to be p three to fly off. Our main site are off the Ski Mountain. Because it's regulated. It's insured excites you.

00:40:00 - 00:45:02

GotTa Get your P.. Three so they would like you said just do the bare minimum to that. They had no interest in being paired ladders. They just but but now they're showing a lot of interest in paragliding. You know they see the Alaska film the Rockies Whatever and they're like man's guys are staying up for nine hours? That's pretty neat. So that's been really cool and that's one of my huge motivations to pull all these Communities together you know we should all be working together and we should all be friends and we should all be working towards the same thing. Same SIPE reservation the same. Like you've got with your mountain. They're so cool to implement something like that here. I'm not against that at all if it's if if we could do it safely and and arena reduce the chance of something bad happened in. That'd be killer. Absolutely comparisons. He wanted bear gliding. Hang gliding. Which one there's growing definitely speed climbing over the other two to always seem? We seem to shrinking encountered sort of maintain. But that's also a lot of immigration. The candidate trump thirteen countries and places where they paired by a lot of clouds. Okay but I think it's a great thing for our for the paragliding writings sport because it's a it's a gateway drug into para body as paragliders start to get older and certainly foot launching. You know there's GonNa be a physical ability limit on to rock and I think speed right. There is more skiers open to. That would be a big one because you know launching and landing a speed ring on no brainer really it really museum news and you don't have to run it out anyone. God it's such a huge. I saw aw one God it's ridiculous you don't have to be good either. You can just coast down the mountain and who been Holler you know maybe do a couple turns as just it's so l.. Fun I love taking people do to do that because it adds this whole dimension. That's just a blast. Roddy would really would be booming side of the sport if we can just get more ski resorts on wealth involved. Even you know in in in Europe Glasser asked me you know. Certain parts of the Mount data matter dedicate dedicated to it so maybe certain areas that are off where there aren't very many people you know going down that we certainly have areas like that whistler blackhawks for for people find St Wins and be well underway of God. You know when I think about that here in the states I just I got it and I'm like yes. I'm hopeful that had saved up like there's no way that would ever happen just because the lawsuits and just that whole scene gene but do you see that as being something. That's realistic in Canada. I mean to me. I don't see why he reenlisted anywhere aware. I think we just have to change how people look at the sport child always look. I always think about it like let's. Let's just pretend beds. Snowboarding was first foreskin all snow orders right and then all of a sudden these people who rode down sharp. lancs airing two spears on the mounting. Seriously we would say what the hell you're not letting those people in dangerous with two spears crazy we can't let me and and you Mel Tucker on Skis. You can go so fast. It's credible Derek. You're right you can speedway speedway the second you start grading. Lift your off the mountain. You're no longer skiing so we just have to change over looking at it because we're so yeah. Entrenched relate those frog in boiling water. We're use to skiers and snowboarders no longer. Do we see something. That's dangerous even though a lot of people get hurt died doing that on these resorts but yet they're really great at sort of just not letting anyone know downhill mountain fighting punching people getting hurt and die doing that up here but you just don't hear it and they do a really good job. That's a really good point that I think is under shatter. I Dunno just people don't think of nearly as much I mean. I think think I've gone back and forth on this too because we've had a really bad summer. There's been a lot of accidents several of fatal and it's like that every year you know so I mean it's not like I was just talking to cross country magazine other day. I was working on an article about margin and and and he and like Oh my God. It's been a bad year. And then Ed ed the editor was a dude.

00:45:02 - 00:50:20

It's it's always a bad year but it seems like you said I think a lot of times. We are to magnified on that issue in the sport. I mean we need to be. We need to be safer with a lot of these accidents. That happen are not necessary but at the same time where I feel like we're belaboring it way too much. You know I mean if if I if I'm just going to choose for the day what I'm GonNa do with my time. If I get on a mountain bike I got a much higher chance of getting hurt period. I mean partly because I'm not that good on a mountain bike but also because I mean those guys packing in all the time now usually it's not fatal which as a and that's when our our stuff are injuries tend to be spinal in that's ugly or fatal and that's too but Anyway I I don't whereas going with that except that I think I think a lot of times we we belabor this stuff too much and were too worried about getting access taken away from us Because we don't have that much access honest. I mean the European they just they don't think about this stuff they don't have to worry about where land don't have to worry about where they launched the watch inland anywhere. They want it. They don't have access problems and they know they're not getting sued and landowners. Not they're not going to get sued. The landowners not gonna a freak out of a paraglider lands on your land except if you land on grasp that should be for the cows. They get a little upset about that. But it's just much different litigation environmental the legal environment than what we have your. Yeah and you know that's why the ski resorts are a great place for it is because they've been dealing with that forever looked looked right live. League religious nations is something that there is just part of doing business for them so again. That's why C. N.. Is is really the perfect perfect place for it And as a community of we can best way for us to make this a her stop wishing is what we're doing or pushing people out to the fringes and of course that's when people are gonNA start getting hurt and it's GonNa get ugly as one start pushing people out rose fringes By bringing in education I always compare it sooner or sex education and community and and if he takes action sex education out of community teen pregnancies skyrocket as because people are not going to stop. I'm having sex is fine and it feels good. But the best way that you prevent people from doing unsafe areas by providing education plying feels good. And it's a lot of fun. People are not gonNA stop doing it. But the best way that we can prevent unnecessary accidents or incidents revived providing a path for education and as a community we can start shaving their message to these ski resorts to bring it in that so instead of it being something people see negatively like we did snowboarding. We start seeing it as as a positive in a way that they can be part of the Joseph stuff I mean is one of these things. It doesn't provide a lot of money to the resort but from a visual perspective seeing seeing wings wind down about this looks really cool to other people that are there. That's what orbit that they said that over and over again. I think it's kind of a pain in the ass to deal with us but they love it. it's beautiful marketing budget. Churn now he's like these guys kind of money but will consider if the bargains bucket that's the backcountry spheres. They don't provide almost any revenue photos again. The kind of the IOS they get is is Great Market Oregon so you snuck in the sex education thing which was brilliant. Glad you got that in there. Because that's something we can all relate to hopefully ya yeah and and ecosystem. I like that touch on that just a little bit. I mean because that's that's the problem I see is you could go through all this work at H.. Packing recreate the syllabus and create this. You know Reading system then you gotta make people use it. I'm going to be the toughest part right execution to use. It is going to be very. I think it might be difficult. I don't know I'm GONNA anticipate that it will be difficult of course but I think people really want to do it and people that have looked at it. It'd been pardoned. It are sort of waiting for this to come down. The are are are anticipating are sitting around anticipating waiting for it to happen. Yeah I like it Tyler thanks man I really appreciate it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I wish you guys at h back all all the luck in the world. I hope you do put this together because the community needs it badly and I'm sure you've thought about this but it seems like we could steal from what the Europeans are doing and implemented a lot of what they're doing they tend to be quite a ways ahead of us on this like you know like the whole abby system and some of the systems they use Europe for paragliding or On don't WANNA knock Too much much.

00:50:20 - 00:55:28

But they're they're quite a bit more progressive and They they cover the skill sets that you need. I think much better than a multiple choice tests that we're doing still doing here you know so. I think it's something we could we. Could you know across the community we can learn from. Yeah that's what I've had a few you guys from over there like Mark Shaw from the guiding of Everybody Association Open Asher Chris from skiing which instruction and France Norway and Museology Charles. And I mean there's so much further advanced when it comes to teaching people are the multiple choice. They just hate that stuff. They're like set. That doesn't teach somebody who's not just your testing. They're deductive reasoning skills. Right right. Yeah it's it's wrongly placed Yes I mean I I I take your point about the youth too. I mean that's what the sport is suffering from everywhere not nearly as much in Germany and France and Switzerland stuff. They've got really good youth programs in its in the schools. And so you know. They're they're holding on to their growth but It's all going to go. Oh the way of hang gliding unfortunately unless we attract youth to the sport and I think you know the the youth are a lot more attracted to speed line. Because it's got that you know it's faster it's it's fun it's immediate out and really have a blast right off the bat. You don't have to spend a week ground handling and you you know. I mean you should do all that you should do all that stuff anyway but you know you can go have fun and pretty quickly and get a buzz and and that hopefully will turn into a love of For a lifetime. Absolutely we should cut off our news despite her face. I mean it's absolutely a great marketing platform for our sports. Parts for free. You can get into a fantastic thirty second. Fifteen seconds It's hard to do that with. Yeah Yeah Yeah well for those of you who are listening There will be contact details in the show to get Ahold of Tyler if you've got ideas Or ways to assist. Or you know maybe you're working on your own syllabus. We should all be working together. We shouldn't be doing these this stuff in our own silos So you know reach out to Tyler reach out to me and Offer your assistance or guidance Sir question or wherever and try to get this. This should be something that the whole world olds working on working towards the same goal. Yes Gavin please. Anyone who's interested in helping out or WANNA learn more. Please reach out to me. Yeah Tyler thanks man appreciate appreciate it. Thanks again for your time. And she coming on the show and I hope we get to meet at cloud base or ripping down the chief one of these days. Thanks a lot and if you find the cloud base may have valuable you can support it. In a lot of their ways you can give us a rating itunes or stitcher. However you get your podcast? 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00:55:28 - 00:56:10

You'd have an account and should be able to access all that bonus material. Now thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate your support. See on the next show. Thank you.