Chalk another one up for our “legends” series. This week I sit down with Tom Peghiny to visit with Malcolm Jones, two legends in the world of hang gliding. They share their personal journeys into the sport, from Malcolm’s early experiences with water skiing and the very first known towing of hang gliders which later became the Wallaby Ranch, the first aerotow facility in the world. The discussion covers the evolution of hang gliding competitions, memorable events, and the impact of their aviation experiences on their lives. The conversation also touches on the connection to Disney and the growth of the hang gliding community over the years. Malcolm discusses the evolution of aerotowing in hang gliding, emphasizing its advantages over traditional winching methods. He shares personal anecdotes about flying with celebrities, the unique culture at Wallaby Ranch, and the community that built up around hang gliding. As he prepares for a transition in his life, he reflects on the legacy of his ranch and the joy of introducing others to the magic of flight.
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Malcolm’s first encounter with hang gliding was at Cypress Gardens. He initially found hang gliding scary but later fell in love with it. Malcolm’s early flights were behind a boat, which he found exhilarating. He learned to tow and foot launch in the Tampa Bay area. The Tennessee Tree Toppers were a significant part of his early flying experience. Malcolm and Tom became fast friends in the early days of hang gliding. Competitions were a mix of duration, spot landing, and zigzag pylons. Malcolm won several competitions, including one in Guatemala. The Disney show ‘Surprised in the Skies’ was a pivotal moment for Malcolm. Wallaby Ranch has become a central hub for hang gliding in Florida. Aerotowing revolutionized hang gliding instruction. Dual instruction is key to effective flight training. Aerotowing is safer and more comfortable than winching. Malcolm has flown with numerous celebrities. The Wallaby Ranch fostered a unique hang gliding community. Promotions like naked tandem flights were part of the fun. Hang gliding has provided countless memorable experiences for participants. The culture at Wallaby Ranch is familial and supportive. Malcolm’s transition from hang gliding reflects a new chapter in life. The joy of flying is often described as magical by participants.
Sound Bites
“I just fell head over heels in love with it.” “I had a very unusual mom.” “I had no idea that how dangerous it was.” “I think I was flying a Seagull.” “I could talk for weeks.” “I was just super lucky.” “My idea was to teach with dual instruction.” “There’s no comparison at all.” “I’ve done a tremendous amount of both.” “Hang gliding is the flyingest flying.” “We did a lot of naked tandem discovery flights.” “It’s been my baby. I’ve never had any partners.” “I think I’m the luckiest guy ever.”
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Hang Gliding Legends 01:14 Malcolm’s Early Experiences with Hang Gliding 08:53 Transitioning to Foot Launch and Soaring 16:34 The Rise of Competition Hang Gliding 24:47 Memorable Competitions and Experiences 28:11 The Disney Connection and Wallaby Ranch 33:03 Life at Wallaby Ranch and Future Aspirations 33:50 The Birth of Aerotowing in Hang Gliding 35:26 Understanding Aerotowing: A New Approach 37:02 The Advantages of Aerotowing Over Winching 41:03 Flying with Celebrities: Notable Experiences 46:08 Unique Promotions and T-Shirt Culture 48:36 The Legacy of Wallaby Ranch 55:34 The Community and Culture of Hang Gliding 01:00:18 Transitioning from Hang Gliding to New Adventures
Gavin McClurg (00:01.206)
Gentlemen, Tom and Malcolm, welcome to the Cloudbase Mayhem. I really appreciate your time. Been excited about doing this. We don't often have three people doing this at the same time. those of you who are listening in, what we're doing here is Tom Pagini, who has been flying hang gliders for all of his life. And we had him on the show a while back, I think 54 years, something around there.
Malcolm (00:18.281)
Ahem.
Gavin McClurg (00:26.146)
is going to be the main interviewer of our other guest, Malcolm Jones, who's the head of Wallaby Ranch and has been flying for 51 years. Just found out before we started recording and done a lot of towing and just different stuff and sent me some beautiful videos yesterday which were a lot of fun. Had Mike Rowe flying around. You all know from the jobs, what was it, Dirtiest Jobs. I loved one of those.
That show was fantastic. yeah, so Tom, because he knows the history a lot more than I do, Tom will be the main interviewer here. And I'll just jump in where needed to ask more questions and follow up on stuff. So the new format, I hope you all like it. And Tom, take it away,
Malcolm (01:04.769)
Ahem.
Tom Peghiny (01:14.94)
That's great. Hey, Malcolm, you and I have known each other for very long time and you've always been one of the nicest and most interesting people I've ever met. You started on a little different path beginning in hang gliding through your interest and experience in water skiing. When did you first hear of hang gliding or tow kiting and how did that happen?
Malcolm (01:44.462)
well
I feel sure the first time I saw a hang glider fly would have been at the ski show at Cypress Gardens. I might have seen it on TV or heard about it at something since then. But I do remember thinking, wow, that's scary looking. And it wasn't like, whoa, I want to do that at all. you know, but that's first time I saw it.
Gavin McClurg (02:15.946)
And what year was that? Malcolm?
Malcolm (02:18.008)
Geez, that would have, I don't know, Bill Bennett stopped by there with a glider as his, I think it was his first stop in the United States from Australia. So I don't know when they started transitioning from the flat kites to the little Delta wing ski kites is what they call them, even though it was just a tiny regalo wing hang glider.
could have been three or four or five years before that, I guess. And it was a years after that when my brother ran into some guy that had bought a think it was called a 13-6, been at Delta Wings Ski Kite. And I'm not sure why, what he thought he was doing because he didn't have a boat. And so he called my brother, Matthew, and said, hey, so you guys have a boat.
Tom Peghiny (03:05.457)
You
Malcolm (03:11.72)
and I have this ski kite, you know, what if, what if you pull me and I let you fly the kite and
I thought it was crazy and scary, you know, but my brother's like, yeah, bring it over. So we throw it in the bay and we pulled him and he and my brother went and then I tried it and it was unquestionably my favorite flight of my life. We were really good water skiers. So it was an effective.
Gavin McClurg (03:40.746)
first one.
Malcolm (03:47.842)
If had a good boat driver, which you needed for skiing, which we were, it was sort of a wind tunnel, sort of an opportunity. The base tube was like a ski handle, ski in, then you're on two skis and you come up out of the water and we were scared of it, which was healthy. You could go just fast enough to clean off the water skis, but not fast enough to lift the person with the little seat.
So we'd be flying along. I taught bunches of people, everybody in the neighborhood. you'd go along and the good skiers could keep themselves under the kite and then slowly, you we had a little mimeographed sheet with drawings about push out to go up, pull in to go down, move left to go left. That's it. once you could go do shallow S turns behind the boat,
You'd stop in the middle and give them, you know, this was like, okay. And the boat driver give you a little more speed and the skis would come off the surface. And it was just like a, you know, it's just unbelievably fantastic. My first flight probably lasted 20 minutes, mostly under tow, you know? And of course you, you made that last as long as you can because after your, once you land at somebody else's turn.
Gavin McClurg (05:00.182)
you
Malcolm (05:17.006)
But we
Gavin McClurg (05:18.646)
Did you have, when you're doing this with a kite like that, or is it kind of like modern-ish towing where you got to worry about lockout and stuff? Do you have to worry about that, doing that?
Malcolm (05:29.976)
They were amazingly docile. I think it was like an 80 degree nose with a lot of billow and they didn't tend to want to lock out. They didn't have as much performance but it was incredibly easy to fly. And we were going, of course we didn't know anything about thermal or staying up. So we're running around, I mean, pulling in, going under bridges and going back up and just all kinds of crazy stuff.
Gavin McClurg (05:31.935)
Okay.
Malcolm (05:59.278)
tremendous amount of flying and air time in a few weeks. I mean we were eight up with it. 17 years old, 1974. And, uh, 19, 1974.
Gavin McClurg (06:06.784)
Wow.
Tom Peghiny (06:06.994)
And you were 16, 17 at the time?
Gavin McClurg (06:13.238)
74, okay, so I don't think anybody was thermal really yet, right? I mean, it's 74. I guess maybe. Yeah.
Malcolm (06:19.402)
Nah, wouldn't even know what the word meant. But we did a tremendous amount of flying immediately. And previous to that I had tried the little kite. Flat kite which was 100 % boat driver controlled. It could have been a person, could have been a sack of potatoes, but it was all boat driver. Basically it was a kite and the person which was in a little harness or a seat very much like the early hang gliders and connected to the kite
at the center of mass or whatever. But effectively the person was the tail of the kite. You remember a kid with a kite that didn't have a long enough tail, it wouldn't fly right. And if it had a heavy enough tail it fly great. People were heavy enough for this kite to work and so it just sat there and was all boat driver. I had tried that previously. But I didn't go nearly as high as what I saw them do at Cypress Gardens. I think actually way back
in beginning I think it was almost an accident that they realized what it would do. I mean the first guys in Australia I think they just thought it was going to be a better kite maybe and it ended up being you know not really a kite but a glider and there was really no similarity other than the materials they used you know aluminum, Dacron, stainless steel cable but
didn't mean to go on so much, that's where I started from, is out in Tampa Bay, flying for hours in a day, a dozen flights, you I mean, you could get good in a hurry. And we just started out with putting two ski ropes together, ski rope 75 feet, we were, with an angle, we were probably getting up 120 feet or something, but within,
Tom Peghiny (07:49.799)
Not screw.
Malcolm (08:18.574)
I know if it was hours, but within days, we're putting time to get more ropes together. You know, it just made the flight, after you released, last longer, you know, instead of 30 seconds, maybe it was a minute, but it progressed really, really fast. And I just fell head over heels in love with it and barely passed a class in school after that, you know, it's like.
It was my sole focus of life and it has been almost ever since.
Tom Peghiny (08:53.53)
So that was right out of your backyard, right on Tampa Bay, because they had a dock right in their yard when he was growing up.
Malcolm (08:56.482)
Yeah, yep, yep. Yeah, our house was, you know, 30 feet from the water.
Tom Peghiny (09:07.676)
So that's your first glider. had a question about that. And you're the first glider that you bought for yourself. Who did you buy that from?
Malcolm (09:19.112)
A named Richard Johnson who's still a close friend and lives not far from here. He's getting up there now. I'm 92 or something maybe.
Tom Peghiny (09:32.72)
and he was a very early water skier in the United States as well.
Malcolm (09:36.014)
Yeah, you can go online and see a Tonight show where he's teaching Johnny Carson how to ski, know back in 1950 something But anyway, yeah the first one I flew was a third with a 13 footer had no battens and no kingpots It was topless you know when you came to a stop the crossbar would just sag down and when you got speed it would straighten up
But the first one, that was the guy down the road that had bought it. My first one was a 14-6 which had wood battens parallel to the keel and a king post. And wow, state of the art.
Tom Peghiny (10:21.378)
And I understand that you did do some towing off of dry land pretty close to your house too. Tell us about that.
Malcolm (10:29.904)
my god. I had a very unusual mom. And it wasn't long, you know, we do this behind the boat, it really has nothing to do with skiing. And my folks had bought this property out on a... This unusual thing in Tampa Bay, they would build this wall out like a big finger, we called them fingers. And they would dredge up to certain altitude, certain...
height with sand as they dug channels and then they'd stop and they'd put in the infrastructure, the power, the water, the sewer and all and then they'd pump more sand in. So you had this big long, what I discovered was runway going out into the bay and no wires, no telephone poles, no nothing. And there was a little cul-de-sac at the end. I had
I don't know, this one day, I don't know if I'd seen, maybe I'd seen some TV of Bill Moyes doing it behind a dune buggy or something, but I just tied it to the family station wagon of a rope of I guess it was about 500 feet. And we took the skegs off a ski, because once you start sliding on the asphalt, as you start to, it's really tough at first and then it's actually slippery. And if you need to get off the ground real quick or the...
You'll start sliding off the crown into the gutter, you know So anyway, I have it all set up mom's like oh get that thing that don't call me till you're ready to go You know so I'd have the car out there and the rope tied to the trailer hitch and I'd have my glider with my We call the kite with the skis. I sit there and call her she come out I said go to 45 and stop at the at the stop sign where the where the
I just, I just tow up and release and you know, you couldn't pay me enough to go and recreate and demonstrate it now, but that's what we thought of as fun. I had no idea that how dangerous it was and like a hundred percent got away with it. You know, we come in and lead out and just run like hell and I'd come back and land in the front yard.
Gavin McClurg (12:48.126)
and your mom told you up.
Tom Peghiny (12:49.81)
with a station wagon.
Malcolm (12:50.628)
yeah.
There no release. The rope would just go up. She'd see the rope in the mirror, obviously, just going up. She can't see me once I get up over there. It's a station wagon, you know, with the tailgate down. She'd stop. We built one of the first houses out there. So it was like a desert finger with a road in the middle with a few houses. But there was really nobody. The rope would just fall on the street. She'd turn around, drive and drag it back. I'd do it again.
Gavin McClurg (12:53.76)
Man.
Gavin McClurg (13:05.824)
That's awesome.
Malcolm (13:23.874)
Yeah, it's hard to even think about it, but that happened.
Tom Peghiny (13:25.51)
Sellers Creek.
Salary's great. My dad on the other hand made me promise that I wouldn't tow behind the car because he'd been sneaking his glider, I mean, ground skimmer magazines and had read about what happened with people towing. It was a fairly dangerous thing to do. Fur aviation stuff. So when and where did you do your foot launch?
Malcolm (13:45.068)
The Pekingese were smarter than the Joneses.
Malcolm (13:57.934)
I guess I was, well, Crystal Caverns, Chattanooga would be the location. The guy named Kirk Hall had a big, I think they call it a solar wings Falker or something. You know how in the early days there was about 30 different manufacturers, most of them just in the garage kind of a thing. And I ran off a little hill. I ran off one time, it was this huge thing.
It was exactly like mine except scaled way up.
Ran down a hill and then we put it on this little cable car and went to the top and ran off the top. That was all. I might have ran down the hill twice. He you got it, let's go. I remember him telling me, I was running off. I guess they had a lot of problem with people letting the nose up and then not having enough airspeed. I was scared of course. He said, just run as fast as can. You can't go too fast.
Gavin McClurg (14:46.196)
Instruction over.
Malcolm (15:00.192)
And I ran off that thing and I was treetop the whole way down, just flapping, hauling ass. And he came down after I landed, he goes, well, not that fast. You know, it was wrong. You can't go too fast. was like, you know, so the next time, know, whatever, I did the opposite of what everybody else would do, which was get too slow. But yeah, then that was great. And then I kind of,
sort of dropped out of school and moved to Chenlew.
Tom Peghiny (15:32.722)
And so when was your first soaring flight?
Malcolm (15:39.694)
It probably within a few weeks of that over at lookout I was probably only there because the wind direction that day and Dick and Don guess and had already had a had a Business going they were the first wills wing dealers east of the Mississippi and they had started a club called the Tennessee treetoppers and had established a launch there at lookout Mountain and there was a wooden ramp there same place the
Tom Peghiny (15:45.554)
Yeah, because there's East, North East facing, yeah.
Malcolm (16:08.814)
the park is now, but it was a club site at the time. And I joined the club and was up there a lot and helping them with the early days of that. That would have been my first soaring flight. And probably wasn't too long after. And we were flying in a lot of wind. It was ridiculous. And we'd go all the way down to the point and back and all that stuff happened really fast.
Gavin McClurg (16:32.075)
What year are we now, Malcolm?
Malcolm (16:34.732)
I don't know, 75.
Tom Peghiny (16:36.69)
Yeah, 74, 75 probably.
Gavin McClurg (16:37.718)
I didn't know the tree toppers had that much history.
Malcolm (16:40.818)
yeah. They were really the biggest thing going east of the Mississippi I would think. And it was two really nice guys. had a trust company. Dick Stern and Don Guest. The second one just passed away recently. They started the whole thing in Chattanooga. The two of them. Absolutely. And it became a really active hub of hang gliding.
Tom Peghiny (16:54.052)
on yes.
Malcolm (17:10.784)
Anyway, we're jumping way ahead, but...
Tom Peghiny (17:12.122)
No, it's great. Do you remember where you and I first met?
Malcolm (17:17.292)
I want to say it was at Dan Johnson's little shop there at Crystal Cavern Motel. I think you were doing a Kestrel demo thing or something.
Tom Peghiny (17:29.894)
Yeah, Dan Johnson, who's been associated with hang gliding, ultralights, and then eventually aviation as a writer and a promoter. had, you know, Dan Johnson's Crystal Air Sports, which I think was the first pro shop or at least one of the first pro shops for hang gliding in the United States. And it was right at the foot of the Crystal Caverns place where Malcolm did his first high flight.
Malcolm (17:36.11)
Grrrr!
Tom Peghiny (17:54.771)
and that was serviced by a little tram that would take you up there. You wouldn't put a foot in it these days. I looked at some pictures of it recently. It frightening. it was a really great scene. was a bunkhouse near there, a motel that I think it was a no-tell motel during the day and catered to hang-gliding people at night. And it was just a great scene.
Yeah, so I figured we met in 75 and I was 19 and you're 18. We became fast friends.
Malcolm (18:36.002)
Yeah, I've met all the players in the early days of hang gliding, mostly because of Tom. I hooked up and kind of rode his coattails all over the place going to competitions and getting sponsored. It was an absolutely wonderful time.
Gavin McClurg (18:54.71)
What did those early competitions look like for you both? You both answered that, but what were you doing?
Tom Peghiny (18:54.93)
Yeah, where was it?
Malcolm (19:00.928)
It was basically a duration and a spot landing. Sometimes they'd have a zigzag of pylons and then they got real sophisticated and they'd have a speed run. So if you went too fast, you'd screw up your duration. It'd be how fast from the launch to this pylon and then how long from that pylon to the ground. So you had to kind of balance that. Funny thing is that as goofy as they were, the best pilot still won.
because everybody was having to, know, whatever it was they wanted you to do, some people could make it happen. And half the people in the meets were just getting into hang gliding. They figured, this is a great way to learn. I'll sign up for this meet. And so you had people that were barely knew how to land and with the tow and you know, I, I mean, we were just killing it with the spot landings and all that kind of stuff. Most of the guys I was flying with had far, far fewer flights.
Tom Peghiny (19:37.872)
Yeah.
Malcolm (20:00.686)
And I was getting fewer flights up there than I was at home. But I was getting ridge soaring. That's what it was all about. You could fly in free flight off tow for an hour. was just crazy.
Tom Peghiny (20:15.26)
So when was your first competition at Cypress Gardens? It was then a very world famous place.
Malcolm (20:22.973)
Yeah, 1975 they would have they would have it they called it a toe kite meat worlds It had world championships water skiing competitions all kind of competition It was a business where they they had these big bleachers on the water and every year they would have a state kite meat and a world kite meat this was before the days of FAI or you know, every every promoter called their meat a world meat, you know and
But they attracted a lot and they had prize money. had Delta Airlines was giving away three or $4,000, which was a big deal then. And, so they had two meets a year and I went to every single meet they ever had, except for the very, very first one. and met tons of really fantastic people and Bill Moise, who was, you I got also became very fast friends with who recently passed and he was a.
Gavin McClurg (20:57.312)
Big deal now.
Malcolm (21:18.922)
major character and he lived a long life and I don't think he wasted any of it.
Tom Peghiny (21:29.266)
during your career as a competition pilot you won quite a few contests.
What a... Can you tell us anything about flying from Dead Horse Point in Moab?
Malcolm (21:45.55)
I think the Moab Chamber of Commerce put this thing together and they picked the scariest spot they could find which was this rock that kind of went up and it was undercut. I think it was called Dead Horse Point. You couldn't run, you just kind of stood at the end but you also couldn't hit anything. You just kind of fall off. I think they had a couple of pylon things and you landed down by the river.
Tom Peghiny (21:59.251)
There's a dead horse point, yeah.
Malcolm (22:13.326)
It could get away with one flight a day. But it was a lot of people. mean, everybody was there. was, you know, again, that was the first place was $5,000. You know, there's nothing like that today. There's not that many people. There's not a bunch of companies trying to make sure their glider wins. And, you know, that was a.
But the thing I noticed about all these big hang gliding meets is most of them only happened once. Cause they found out there wasn't millions of people to come into watch and buying a ticket. and, you know, we all had fun. You know, I remember that one at Pico peak with everybody. They changed the prize money because the bunch of people didn't show up to watch or, but there was some.
some philanthropic individuals involved too, like the gardens was. They didn't make money on that stuff. And the Grandfather Mountain, Hugh Morton was like a gift to hang gliding, you know, did first class competitions that were really fun. I can't name them all up. That Grouse Mountain, Grandfather, I mean, Grandfa, what was it called? I can't remember the name. Grouse Mountain, I guess, was was called Vancouver.
Tom Peghiny (23:32.252)
Yes.
Malcolm (23:33.646)
There's so many beautiful places to fly.
It was just too much fun. With our sponsor, I think it was more important to get their logo in the paper than it was to win. So it made it really easy for us to have fun. It's always been about fun for me. I'm the luckiest guy alive and I've had a lot of it. Sometimes we won but it didn't matter.
Tom Peghiny (24:01.51)
Well, whenever it rained, would have a big advantage because we always had hotel rooms. Everybody else sleeping in their van or in a tent, you know, and we were, had first class. had the Volkswagen Vestivalia.
Malcolm (24:10.188)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (24:12.642)
Ha
Malcolm (24:13.752)
OOF
Malcolm (24:19.63)
It was a magic time because our name, all the little publications, Glider Rider and Hang Gliding magazine would have our names in these meets and you'd show up to town. Everybody would want to be your friend. you know, we, we had those easy, wider cigarette pole rolling paper dispensers. We'd take off a little sticky every, everywhere we went, they'd end up with a cigarette rolling paper dispenser on the wall and a t-shirt. So, so we were popular, especially Tom.
Tom Peghiny (24:20.06)
truck to drive.
Tom Peghiny (24:45.227)
So yeah, those are some of your memories about the Easy Water Flying Team. At one time we had four people on it and we had a professional manager who ended up being our mentor a little bit. You also won a big contest in Costa Rica, didn't you?
Malcolm (25:06.286)
The president of Guatemala sponsored a big competition one time, not Costa Rica. And it was right after, it was right after the America's cup. We were in this big meet at, at lookout that Tracy Canals put on called the America's cup. And it was right after that. So everybody was on the road, you know, all the British pilots and that whole group went to Guatemala right after the America's cup. And there was a big comp down there. Beautiful place. Lake Panahatchel.
Tom Peghiny (25:10.706)
That's Guatemala, Very close.
Malcolm (25:36.382)
Lake Atletland is the volcanic, extinct volcanic clear water, just the most beautiful place.
had fun there too. I I remember me and Ledford, they had all the different motels and hotels, you know, contributing rooms. And myself and David Ledford were assigned this one motel, was off the beaten path a little bit. And we're in the room one night. And this is right during the time that they kidnapped everybody from the embassy in Iran.
And this was a leftist, you know, junta that was in power down there. There were a lot of guns and they were protecting us. Like, you know, I don't know, that was just the thing. They were worried about kidnapping us and all that kind of stuff. Anyway, we're in the motel. It's about 2 a.m. All of sudden we hear explosions, gunfire. And the two of us are like, my God, you know.
For some reason, I don't remember the exact politics, but the Americans were not in favor there. And we were up trying to figure out that we've tried to get the air conditioner out of the window in the bathroom. So if somebody came to the door, we'd jump out the bathroom and we were literally scared to death. And then it finally just faded out. Nobody ever banged on our door. Nobody ever broke in. The next day we found out it was some kind of a national holiday. And their tradition was all in the middle of the night after a quiet night at
12 o'clock or 1 a.m. or whatever it was, fireworks going crazy, you know, it was really, really funny. We got no sleep and we were scared to death. Neither one of spoke a word of Spanish. It was...
Gavin McClurg (27:20.842)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (27:34.176)
They take their fireworks down there seriously. I've had nights like that where you're going, wait, what?
Malcolm (27:37.142)
Yeah, another great meeting in a beautiful place. I remember Rob Kills getting so pissed off because I beat him.
I think I was flying a Seagull. I always flew whatever company Tom was working with and designing for. We flew Sky Sports and we flew Seagulls. I guess we flew Bennett a little bit. Then later on I was back to Moyes. There's so many stories. I could talk for weeks.
Tom Peghiny (28:08.785)
That's great.
So you had a major part in a Disney spectacular called Surprised in the Skies. And that went on for years. And it involved ultralights and power parachutes and all kinds of things. Could you tell us anything about that, how that happened?
Malcolm (28:32.504)
Well, it's a big company. Obviously, they employ a lot of people around here. And some of the creative people there decided they wanted to have this big show in the lake at Epcot. They always had to have something new for their advertising. And they wanted to have a show that had hang gliders. And I think somebody there was doing research, ended up on the phone with Bill Moyes. And he said, hey, mate, there's a guy right there in Orlando. Call him up. And so I ended up.
putting it all together, selling them boats and winches and gliders and hiring other pilots. It took a year to put the whole thing together and it was really good money. We had ton of fun. It was the last several months of that show is when I would take off after the show every day and look for a place to start a hand gliding school because that's when things had
ultra lights had evolved to the point that you could tow with them and I thought you know what I don't have to be running off to California anymore hanging out at Torrey Pines to do tandems because that's what I really love to do in the end.
As soon as that show was over, is when I opened the Wallaby Ranch and the Disney job allowed me to buy the land. And everybody thought it was a ridiculously crazy idea, of course, a hang like place and a pasture and a swamp. But, you know, I really felt like if I didn't do it, I'd be mad at myself forever. And the worst thing that could happen is, you know, a piece of real estate.
Gavin McClurg (29:56.693)
Wow.
Malcolm (30:13.39)
halfway between Tampa and Orlando so I could probably get out of it. And that's been 33 years.
Tom Peghiny (30:18.982)
Yeah, when we first went there, there was a Howard Johnson's Moter Hotel, a Waffle House, and a 7-Eleven. And now it's got like a...
Gavin McClurg (30:19.018)
Wow.
Malcolm (30:26.349)
Waffle House.
Malcolm (30:34.269)
The city of Orlando has sprawled out the suburbs and just surrounded my ranch. So everything has changed a lot. I would have never been able to buy this piece of land at this point. was way, way out here when I got it and now we're just the western suburb with a big ranch in the middle of it. Like I said, I was just super lucky.
Gavin McClurg (30:40.265)
Wow.
Gavin McClurg (30:56.926)
And Malcolm, forgive me for my lack of knowledge with Florida. I haven't spent any time out there at all. Is your ranch where people go to fly Big XC? Is that where they're starting from? Now, these days?
Malcolm (31:10.562)
Yeah, it's really no accident that we're right on what we call the ridge. There's a dune line that goes from like north of Claremont all the way down past Lake Wales that was the west coast of Florida. I don't know how many millions of years ago. I mean, we sharks teeth out here. And so there's a, there's a dry line, you know, and the sailplane community had discovered it years ago. It's very, very sorbile. We get a sort of a sea breeze convergence that we're right in the middle of the peninsula.
So you get a sea breeze off the Gulf and a sea breeze off the Atlantic that converge somewhere near here most normal days. So you have a sort of a concentration of thermal activity. You can look at a satellite picture of the cumulus clouds and it looks like a white mountain range. And as you go towards both coasts, you get these little puffy, fewer and farther between little clouds. It's all concentrated right down the middle.
Gavin McClurg (32:07.712)
Pause for a second here guys, is there any chance you can turn that off, Malcolm, that phone?
Malcolm (32:11.982)
Why is it doing that?
Gavin McClurg (32:17.078)
Miles, we're at 32 minutes here.
Gavin McClurg (32:24.342)
Thanks, bud.
Malcolm (32:25.358)
Why is it?
Malcolm (32:29.218)
doing that. It's not my phone.
Gavin McClurg (32:33.046)
Sounds kind of like a landline.
or a battery going dead.
Malcolm (32:41.934)
I unplugged that phone. I don't know why it's ringing, sorry.
Gavin McClurg (32:45.974)
Yeah, then we can just, we can just.
Malcolm (32:48.032)
Anyway, we really do have an ungodly amount of stories that probably would be interesting to people, but it could go on forever. Cause I've never done anything else.
Gavin McClurg (32:57.974)
flying there and you've never done anything else your whole life. This has been it. Love it.
Tom Peghiny (33:03.91)
So.
Malcolm (33:04.264)
In one way or another, either helping Tom run off Morningside with a new glider that has to be flown before it's shipped to somebody or going to competitions. Yeah, something related to hand gliding. A water ski show, a thing at Disney teaching. I hung out in Southern California a lot and used to do lot of tandems at Torrey and La Jolla there.
but with the AeroTone it's much safer and easier and I can do way more volume.
Tom Peghiny (33:38.992)
So when did you buy the ranch? What year was that?
Malcolm (33:41.966)
1991
Tom Peghiny (33:43.996)
So that was the original tow kite, I mean the original towed hang gliding.
Malcolm (33:50.314)
It was the first aeroto hang gliding flight park in the world. There was the first aeroto and people that the first hang glider folks that were aerotoing that I know of was Gerard Theveno in the French with the trikes. they did a little tour. Dan and his partner at the time bought one and did some aerotoing and the Duncan's built one and, know, aerotoing was in its infancy.
But there was no really, there was no flight park based around it. You know, it was a track that somebody would go out and they'd pull each other. But there was no facility for aerotowel. And the biggest difference is it was just a bunch of experts pulling each other up. There was no growth with it. There was no instruction. It was just experts pulling each other. So the difference about this was my idea was to teach and teach with dual instruction, which is
really outside the box and weird for hang gliding. But it's not weird for every other kind of aviation and how they teach it. Whether it's a sailplane or a helicopter or an airplane or a hot air balloon. You go up with an instructor and so I just thought that would work and nobody else had tried it. Just put wheels on a big tandem glider and started taking people up. It really worked. Of course everybody's doing it now all around the world but it didn't take long to prove that it was the best way to
teach people how to fly and certainly the easiest way to give them a taste of it. They call it a discovery flight.
Gavin McClurg (35:26.57)
Malcolm, I'm sure there are people listening who are confused by the term, aerotiling. Describe what it is.
Malcolm (35:36.45)
Well, you tow up similar to a sailplane behind an airplane, but it's an ultralight that flies really slow and is controllable at really slow speed. And you hook it up to the harness and the glider at the center of mass on the hang glider and you take off together. In the early days we were running off, now we make these little dollies that makes the list of things that can go wrong a little shorter than the list of things when you're running off.
And you tow to altitude and when you're teaching you get still air so that everything that's happening is because of the student. And then once they learn you fly in the afternoon when there's unstable air and the tug pilots get really good at finding the best thermal. And they even get into a turn, get you centered and wave their arm and tell you to release. And when you release from the airplane you go up.
It's very comfortable. It's like country club flying, you know. I get a lot of older guys that would never be getting into hand gliding. It wouldn't last half a day on a training hill that can learn how to fly this way with bad knees and everything else because they never looked up the glider. I've got a bunch of guys here that hang for cross-country hand glider pilots that never ever foot launched a glider.
Gavin McClurg (37:02.87)
Wow, why, Malcolm, why aero towing? Why towing up rather than a payout winch from a car?
Malcolm (37:12.088)
my gosh, first of all there's much much less stress on the glider. Once you've launched you can hold the rope in your hand. Much much less stress on the glider. And then can go much much higher. And maybe the biggest thing is you're not stuck at the end of the runway or wherever the winch is. You're looking for a thermal. There's no comparison at all. No comparison at all. We did try some
Gavin McClurg (37:20.436)
Wow.
Malcolm (37:41.198)
Of course we went through that stage, know, before AeroTone we did lot of winch toing. But there is no comparison. This is far superior in safety and effect. We did do some winching here. actually tried to have some pair of guys come out and we put a winch at the end of the runway and it worked fine.
Gavin McClurg (37:44.63)
Sure.
Malcolm (38:08.898)
They didn't get up as often as the gliders because they're starting where they're starting. Whereas we're starting where the tug pilot thinks is the best spot at that moment. But it didn't mix well at all. We never had any catastrophes. But the problem was you couldn't see the rope. You couldn't see the rope. I mean, we got them way up there, but you see the paraglider. then here you got, I have six tugs, six dragonflies, you know.
There's 300 gliders stored here on a busy day. mean, you've got tugs flying with a 300 foot rope behind them and other hang glider pilots. And you could just see that it wasn't working out because you've got this long rope piece of thin spectra that goes up in a big curve and you absolutely cannot see it.
Gavin McClurg (38:55.062)
3000 foot string.
Malcolm (39:07.262)
It worked, it wasn't practical to do in the same place.
Gavin McClurg (39:12.096)
Hmm, interesting, cool.
Malcolm (39:14.166)
I wish it was. I wish you could arrow to a paraglider. There's been some guys do it but it's almost a stunt. You get somebody like Bobby Bailey or Dave Frentis in the paraglider and they're doing a circle and they just stay inside the circle. It's like a movie stunt but it's not something that's a practical thing. I wish it was. It was really just the rope. It wasn't the paraglider. There's plenty of sky out here.
Gavin McClurg (39:33.621)
Okay.
Malcolm (39:44.238)
Didn't mean to get off the subject, but...
Tom Peghiny (39:45.52)
That's very interesting.
Gavin McClurg (39:45.93)
No, but that's fascinating. I it's also, it's, I didn't know aero towing was so much safer as well because I mean, ground towing makes all of us nervous, you know, things go wrong there. Yeah.
Malcolm (39:48.886)
If you were here, you'd see.
Malcolm (39:56.206)
Oh, it's much safer. It's much safer. I've done a tremendous amount of both. Static line, pay out winch, pay in winch, towed behind, know, C-dos, cars, boats, dune buggies, people. You know, we have some little dunes over here where the easiest way to get up on the condos is to have a couple of guys running with, you know, 200 foot rope with a handle and you can, you know, release and...
get on the condos.
Yeah, it doesn't mean there's nothing that can go wrong and there's skills to learn. There's just less to go wrong and the aerodynamic pressures on the machine are way less. I just think about the angle, you It's a very flat toe. kind of, and you get a big head wind or something changes. It changes for the tow vehicle too. Doesn't like add to the stress on the
Anyway, again, we could talk about that forever too.
Tom Peghiny (41:06.576)
That's great. You've flown a lot of famous people. actors, astronauts, politicians, can you name some of them?
Malcolm (41:18.386)
let's see. probably the biggest little publicity pop we got one time was back, when, when the today show, they were going to do a thing about, you know, today goes extreme or something. And, everybody picked what they want. And Al Roker of all people decided, I want, I've always wanted to try hang gliding. So he came down and they were, you know, we helicopters filming and all kinds of stuff. And I took him flying and he loved it. And, are it.
are are are
website crash for two or three days after that aired and a few months later, this has been a while ago obviously, but Matt Lauer, was out of favor there now, but he was the big dog there for many, many, many years. He called me one day and he's just, know, well, when we did the thing with Al, I went up there, you know, to the, you know, did a little interview there with at 30 Rock or whatever it was. And so I met all of them and
Gavin McClurg (41:53.955)
Really?
Malcolm (42:21.574)
Matt called me and hey, I'm on vacation with my wife and they're down in Palm Beach and she wants to go hang out. His wife was some Dutch model or whatever. And he said, we've got a helicopter here at the golf course. Can we just fly in? He came in, they both did tandems and the helicopter guy went over to Kissimmee to get more fuel. And I called him and he came back and I've been in touch with him ever since.
There was a another there's a there was you know, of those Kate Hudson or omcoms had a Sequence planned for it with hang gliding and My longtime buddy Joe Greb low turned me on to that one. They needed this movie was set in New Orleans so they pretended this was on the outskirts of New Orleans and they had a you know, remember that Thomas Crown affair where they have a sequence with the sailplanes
That's what they wanted. was kind of an interlude from the story where her and her love interest came in. They were here for a week, spent a bunch of money with us. It was super fun. And they just wanted the sight with, they wanted the view of the two Pangliders sort of flying in tandem. Joe Greblo took, you know, took one actor tandem and I took the other one and we just did this sort of ballet into the sunset every day. And they got, they shot for days, but it's about.
It might be five minutes in the movie, which is a lot for a movie. met Kate Hudson and these, what's that Bates girl, Kathy Bates, Peter Dinklage was in it. but you know, there's, there's some, some of that kind of stuff. Kermit Weeks is a famous guy that was a neighbor. You know, I did, he had me come and take his whole family, his whole wedding party for Tandems. He's
Gavin McClurg (43:52.19)
Thanks a lot.
Malcolm (44:17.198)
I think he's the biggest aircraft collector in the world. Somebody said nobody has more airplanes than he has that's not in government. And he has a set up right down the street. know, Mike Rowe, that piece I sent you, that got a lot of attention. you know, there's a real successful, one of the original executives with Google,
decided he wanted to learn how to fly a hang glider. he flies his Citation over here occasionally and goes hang gliding. He also broke the world record skydiving. He came out here and brought Joe Kittinger and Felix Bumgartner and him showed up and flew and had brunch with us here. Joe's since then passed away.
Gavin McClurg (45:07.124)
Yeah, the space job.
Malcolm (45:14.508)
They were one, and Alan still holds the record skydiving from outer space.
There's a lot of aviation that actually goes on in Florida. I remember meeting Chuck Yeager over at Sun and Fun. Incidentally, he took a tandem Discovery flight before he passed and he had a great comment. He said, hang gliding is the flyingest flying.
And I thought, know, I mean, he speaks with credibility. Okay. Chuck Yeager said hang gliding is flying is flying. That's kind of all you have to say.
Tom Peghiny (45:51.09)
I mean...
Gavin McClurg (45:51.836)
Yes, he does, yes.
Gavin McClurg (45:57.92)
That's a good one.
Tom Peghiny (45:59.697)
So you had some special pricing offers at the ranch. And what were those?
Malcolm (46:08.886)
boy.
I mean, I'm into having fun, you know. so somebody, it probably wasn't me, suggested that we should offer discounts for girls that wanted to fly if they didn't have any money. There was a time and a place for that stuff, you know. But half off was half off and all off was all off. So we did a lot of naked tandem discovery flights.
Tom Peghiny (46:14.214)
Yeah.
Malcolm (46:41.612)
And the thing you learn about that, the good part is the women that are willing to take their clothes off, they know they look good with their clothes off.
Gavin McClurg (46:56.214)
So this wasn't a nudist camp kind of thing, you know?
Malcolm (46:56.268)
and the ones that don't, the ones that don't really, they don't tend to volunteer. You shouldn't have asked me that question.
Tom Peghiny (46:57.873)
Okay.
So I'm sorry. They can always be edited out, but I couldn't resist.
Gavin McClurg (47:04.32)
We will not edit that out, I promise.
Tom Peghiny (47:07.09)
Your t-shirts are legendary. I'm wearing one right now, Walhubie Ranch brand. you're also, there's beautiful Florida orange Crate art and other fantastic t-shirts.
Malcolm (47:07.948)
I'll send you the pictures.
Malcolm (47:24.566)
lori sanchez she is a fantastic extremely talented artist that lives in winter park here and she came out learned how to fly so you know the artists that usually do that they rep the other wire goes to the wrong place or whatever but she became an accomplished hang glider pilot and we bartered for art and we have some we we did some unbelievably complex you know that one's
That one you got there probably, I think it was 18 screens. You know they call it four color process for four screens. 18. I mean they were really, really works of art and were appreciated by a lot of people. But yeah, great girl. She's still around. She was out here at our last Christmas party.
Gavin McClurg (48:02.548)
Yes.
Tom Peghiny (48:13.394)
which is a really nice person. unquestionably have more takeoffs and landings at Hangout with Paulette than anyone in the world. And I seriously doubt that anyone will ever be able to come close to the record. What's the estimate of how many takeoffs and landings you've had doing all those tandems and the surprise in the skies and all that, wild-ass guess.
Malcolm (48:36.746)
It would be a crazy number, largely because of the towing in Tampa Bay. You know, one weekend it might do 30 takeoffs and landings.
I don't know. Lori went through the, since I've been here, we logged everything because we got to keep an accounting of it, you know? And she went through a couple of years before she got tired, but she said I averaged about five a day, including all the days that we don't fly. Average. It's less now. The sport is slowly shrinking, which is probably something we should talk about.
Maybe between 65,000 and 100,000 maybe. don't know. Tyson or somebody was talking about that the day. Oh, we should put you up for that Guinness Book of World Records or something. I'd say number of flights, number of hours. again.
Tom Peghiny (49:35.442)
Yeah, but you don't drink, so... So,
Gavin McClurg (49:38.582)
I mean, that's just quick math. Quick math. It's five a day. That's 1,825 a year. 51 years. That's 93,000. That's, and it sounds like that might be conservative.
Malcolm (49:52.918)
Well, do a lot more. Certainly, I've done more flights than anybody. There's just no way because I've never done anything else and I'm turning 69 in September. The whole ranch happened because I love taking other people up. We talked about my favorite flight the first time with the skis came off the water. I've been chasing that ever since. And the closest thing I've discovered
in getting to that is having it rub off somebody else because they're having it. Not every time, not every person, but some people like, you you land and the lady's just crying.
and you know that it got to him. And I get a piece of it. It feels selfish.
It's it's a absolute. I think the best word is magic but uh It's ethereal and it's you know, I i've never been able to get a flight like that first flight But i'm still trying
Gavin McClurg (51:03.318)
We hear that a lot on the show. What I haven't heard, I mean, we all taste that first feeling, right? But what I haven't heard is just this...
passion that has seems like with you the whole way through. There's never been, it almost seems like there's never really been a lull. It's just, that's unusual.
Malcolm (51:29.73)
My my yeah, my angle is different than like Tom and I were a good yin and yang, know He was very technical. We always had the best stuff, you know, what was going on the best ideas. Let's try this I was very social, you know, it was all about the people and the camaraderie and The fun I loved having all the best equipment all the time But yeah turning other people. I mean I was taking I was taking girls on my back
or the Moyes Maxi out of a lake. It was sitting on you sit on your back and just hold the down tubes. No helmet, no harness, no parachute. Off the beach all day long. And I you know I discovered that really brought that first experience back again and again and again because almost every time it's their first time. And I'm sure it wasn't legal but whatever.
Tom Peghiny (52:26.202)
No law against it.
Malcolm (52:28.43)
Yeah, I guess it wasn't. But it was before the USHGA had a tandem rating or advance of that kind of thing. Certainly, well, whatever it would have been then, the Southern California Hang Lang Association or something, they never really considered the tandem thing.
Tom Peghiny (52:47.506)
So you've hosted demo days for different manufacturers, Wills Wing and Moyes. You're doing a Moyesman right around now. And hosted national championships at the ranch?
Malcolm (52:55.404)
Yeah, last weekend.
Malcolm (53:01.186)
Yeah, we had a competition series. I think we did seven of them. It was called the Wallaby Open. And I put up a, they never made money, but they were a ton of fun. And one year we had 120 pilots. the other years we had anywhere, probably always over 90, way bigger than the meets you have today. The meets you have today, it's same 25 or 30 guys and there might be one meet.
But a lot of, probably two thirds of the pilots were from outside the country. Cause I put up prize money. You know, we'd give away, I think we gave away $5,000 one year and $4,000. Usually Manfred Rumer would come and win it. But it really put us on the map initially because we had all the absolute biggest names, Thomas Sukhanik and...
during that period of time in a hang gliding, they would come and they would kick ass and they would find out that Florida is a fantastic place for soaring hang gliders. had a buddy, Mike Peleskiewicz, used to ride up to Chattanooga together years ago and he was meticulous about his log books. And once we started flying down here, we started air towing with a trike up in cow pastures up near Ocala.
But he was really meticulous about it. People always say, what's the best time of year? He sat down with all his law books and did the curve. That's kind of the standing joke around here. What's the best time of year here? We always say, the best time of year is April 17th. Because he laid it all over in that one year.
March would be a little better than April or one year of May would be it but if you laid it all out it was just a little bit north of the middle of April and you're getting to 8 000 feet and uh so the best time of year is April 17th and we we just passed it and every meat I had was determined by the week that included April 17th and they were all outrageously successful and uh unbelievably epic flights and
Malcolm (55:24.3)
You know, was fun.
Tom Peghiny (55:28.38)
There's been even a sociological study done about the ranch vibe and the microculture that built up there. Can you explain how that happened?
Malcolm (55:34.99)
You
Malcolm (55:41.166)
Oh, let's see. was one of the local pilots named Joe Rossler. He used to come out a lot and his daughter would always come with him and hang out at the pool and whatever. We'd always have a lot of characters coming through. I would say relative to hang gliding, we probably had far less turnover than a normal flight park. Everybody that worked here lived here. The ranch was almost 500 acres.
Tom Peghiny (55:42.448)
I it was providing food.
Malcolm (56:10.058)
And the clearing we fly in and out of is about 150 acres. I built these little tiny houses so people could stay here because we need to start flying until 7.30am. That's a good time for instruction. Well anyhow, so you end up, it's a family. You know, it's very, very much a family. we've had a lot of people, there's just all kind of offshoots over the years, all these people. People met out here and got married and have kids, they're out here and whatever. Well anyway, Cat, his daughter,
a cat super intelligent and a couple decade or a half a decade or two later she's I think she went to Stanford and she did her thesis on the micro she came out she spent the summer before her senior year I guess she spent the summer out here living with us and wrote a piece about the about the culture and it was very interesting and positive
Malcolm (57:13.11)
It has been magic. I'll miss it.
Gavin McClurg (57:18.08)
Why do say you'll miss it? What's going on?
Malcolm (57:20.642)
The people. well, I'm going to be 69 next year. And I've just decided I'm going to go sailing. And part of it was the timing. There's a guy, like I mentioned earlier, the city has just grown around me and the real estate became worth astronomically more than I paid for it and more that you could justify with a hang gliding business.
Gavin McClurg (57:32.415)
Malcolm (57:49.408)
I'd said no to developers for years and enjoyed saying no. But this one guy just kept coming back with a different offer. I said, well, look, okay, I'll sell it if you'll let me lease it back for two years. Because I can't just drop it like that. There's too many people and things. So anyway, I sold the property last April.
Gavin McClurg (58:18.39)
You got a year left.
Malcolm (58:19.318)
I can retire luckily. so I'm keeping things going until, right now it's through October. The folks that bought it, they have no interest in hang gliding, are, the last I spoke to them, behind the curve and all their development plans and everything else. said, well, Malcolm, can continue on month to month if you want for.
So who knows how long. But I think, you know, it doesn't feel the same.
It doesn't feel the same. mean, it's been my baby. I bought the land. I've never had any partners. It's just me. You know, it's, sent my kids to school. It kept us all in cars and you know, but it was never really any big pile of cash. It was a ton of fun and it paid for itself. But, but the real estate is a different story. by accident, you know, it was funny. had Bill Moyes told me that he had this shop in.
Gavin McClurg (58:55.167)
And is it?
Tom Peghiny (59:15.602)
30 years later, you're a real estate genius.
Gavin McClurg (59:18.496)
Yeah.
Malcolm (59:24.622)
Bronte Beach, which is right one beach down from Bondi Beach in Sydney. And as he had a car shop, had panel beaters and old car electrics and all this kind of stuff. you could walk down from his house to the shop. he made hang gliders there for decades. And then he finally decided to move. They kept offering him so much money because the whole area had just become gentrified or whatever they say.
and he sold the building and they immediately tore it down and built some big condo. Anyway, he says that one transaction made three times as much as he made in the entire time that he was working himself silly building hang gliders. Not that he regretted it at all. It's just a different animal.
Gavin McClurg (01:00:18.646)
So is the Wallaby Ranch gonna become condos? Is it just gonna get developed out?
Malcolm (01:00:18.998)
and i don't regret it i don't regret it all either
Malcolm (01:00:26.4)
No, particular guy is surrounded by wetlands and it's not as developable as some of the land really nearby here is. Like I said, we're right next to the ridge. You go little bit east of here, the land is lot higher and drier right next to us.
I guess the vision I get from what he describes is if you see that house and that Yellowstone show where the rocks and the logs and it's a great kind of a place to build but you can't be next door to another house. It's got to have space around it. And he's got a financial services business with offices in Orlando and offices in Tampa and this is right in the middle and he likes to hunt and he wants to walk out on the porch in his underwear with a cup of coffee and not see a neighbor.
Gavin McClurg (01:01:14.804)
So this will be his playground. Yeah.
Malcolm (01:01:17.888)
So I think it built a barn maybe and a swimming pool and that kind of stuff. But it's not going to be a dense real estate development. It's just going to be a really nice house and a really nice spot. And it did what I wanted it to do. Like I say, I think I'm the luckiest guy ever.
Gavin McClurg (01:01:40.704)
Malcolm, I gotta ask you a question as we roll up to our end time here that I ask from time to time again with our, but with you this is gonna be fascinating. If you could rewind the clock to your 50 hour self, so somewhere in that 1975, you were building up the hours pretty quick, sounds like doing towing and stuff, but.
What would you, if you could go back and talk to your 16 year old self, what would you say?
Malcolm (01:02:12.876)
Malcolm (01:02:16.718)
Skip the aerobatics, you only got lucky with that.
Malcolm (01:02:25.816)
Do what you do.
Gavin McClurg (01:02:32.31)
Don't change a thing.
Malcolm (01:02:35.202)
Yeah, I, you know.
Malcolm (01:02:42.252)
I I do that stuff. I cherish my friendships.
Malcolm (01:02:47.828)
I didn't sell any of them.
Malcolm (01:02:53.218)
I just sold the dirt and I'll make a point of, you know.
putting together some reunion parties and stuff like that because I miss people.
Malcolm (01:03:08.704)
It's a it's a thing people say Malcolm you're gonna have psychological problems, you know Of course I already do but it's like it's like it's been my third arm, you know, I mean I've been here Making hang lighting happen almost seven days a week since 1991. I've taken very few breaks But it doesn't feel that way because I'm doing what I want to do, you know But yeah, there's there's the sacrifices to it
It's hard to do the family vacation when there's guys showing up from Canada in a van any given day. It's let's party! know, there's another van of guys that just went home and you can barely stand up. But yeah, I know so many people. It's really been a great, great ride. My son just told me the other day, said, how many people have you?
track of people and get contacts you know he goes well you can just scroll up in your phone at the very end it'll tell you how many contacts you have so I did I have 9,000 contacts in my cell phone
Gavin McClurg (01:04:17.792)
Jeez, holy cow. Wow.
Malcolm (01:04:23.554)
Got Gavin now.
But yeah, I try to keep it to... Yeah, come on out. It's a magical, easy way to see what Hang Gliding is all about. You know that piece you saw from Mike Rowe, if you really watched it, you should if you did. But you can see it in him. He was scared. It was impromptu. He landed here in a balloon. There was no plan.
Gavin McClurg (01:04:27.828)
I gotta get out to your ranch before things change. I gotta get out there. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (01:04:48.03)
I did. Yeah.
Malcolm (01:04:55.896)
But had his film crew for the show. And they're like, my god, we haven't cleared this with the tire. We don't have any insurance. He goes, I'm flying. You guys going to roll your cameras or not? Because he did what he wanted to do. And he talked about how he did the skydiving with the Golden Knights or whatever. But he was one of those guys. And I really love it because you can watch it again.
He was affected in a very sincere way and he goes my god, it's it is magic, you know, and He rolled in And you know ever since that movie people call this thing they they they refer to Bucket lists, you know, and I I told the guy I can't remember who it was. It was in charge of the Us hga. I said you should take that clip and put it on the website
Gavin McClurg (01:05:27.135)
Yeah.
Malcolm (01:05:51.534)
Because he rolls in, the camera guy runs up to him, he looks at him, says, if you're making a list, you need to do this. And it's like, dude, everybody knows that face. Take that, run with it. It's perfect. But yeah, it's just, I keep up with him. I mean, I make friends with people as they go through. And when you're teaching somebody how to fly, it's very personal.
Gavin McClurg (01:06:07.178)
Yeah.
Malcolm (01:06:21.322)
And they're here for a week, two weeks, three weeks. You know, we've gone out to eat together. We had beer together. We're literally touching in the harness. My mouth is four inches from their ear. You know, I've taught them everything start to finish. They've never touched a hang glider. They leave in three weeks and they're fine solo.
Malcolm (01:06:42.776)
They don't forget you.
Gavin McClurg (01:06:43.134)
special? No, absolutely neither.
Malcolm (01:06:45.634)
Yes, it's super nice. It's perfect for me. It wouldn't be perfect for most people I know a lot of guys that get in the Tannams because they just pay for bills and they want to They want to be in the air, but they're more flying for themselves You know even doing aerobatics with the Tannamans person, know, whatever it's not you know, they're not there for the Not not everybody but I really Get charged up out of out of somebody else getting it
Gavin McClurg (01:07:12.31)
There was a study, you guys remember that? It came out a while back. They did a follow-up thing with women who had learned to fly. I think this was perilators or hang-ladders. I'm not sure if there was a specific category, but, the response, in the survey response, was that it was the second most important thing in their life to childbirth. That's pretty remarkable.
Like he says, not everybody, but for a lot of people, it's a pretty big deal.
Malcolm (01:07:41.056)
I've had hundreds of people tell me in the most sincere way, that's the most fun I've ever had in my life.
Gentlemen, Tom, thanks for setting this up and great questions. And Malcolm, both of you, thank you for your incredible contributions to this sport and to this community and to this life. We really appreciate it. Malcolm, I can see how emotional this is for you to have had this ranch for so long. good luck sailing and good luck with the trans...
I don't anticipate that's gonna be very easy, but these things happen in life. We move on and do different stuff, but thank you. I really appreciate both of your time. This was very special.
Malcolm (01:08:35.118)
Thank you very much. really appreciate it. interesting. It's funny, you don't reflect on things so much and people ask you about it. It kind of forces it on you.
Thanks again.
Tom Peghiny (01:08:47.75)
That's great Gavin, thank you.
