Juraj Koreň is an expert alpine climber and pilot from Slovakia who has been chasing some very extreme (often solo) adventures around the world for the last decade, including his 7 “virgin summits” attempt to climb and fly off the world’s highest peaks. We begin this conversation discussing his experience in the 2019 Red Bull X-Alps and how mistakes in his first race have guided his last five years of preparations for his second race this June, and the lessons learned from both successes and failures in extreme sports. They discuss the challenges of solo climbing, the importance of understanding mortality in adventure sports, and how weather can impact performance. Juraj shares his reflections on his experiences, including a harrowing solo climb of the north face of the Eiger and the mental battles faced during the Red Bull X-Alps race. We discuss the addictive nature of extreme sports, the lessons learned from past experiences, and the importance and intrigue of solo missions for personal growth and reflection. Juraj shares his experiences flying tandem in Pakistan and the dynamics of working with Aaron Durogati, emphasizing the balance between risk and decision-making. The conversation also delves into Juraj’s recent solo 1200km bivouac in New Zealand, highlighting the beauty of solitude and the mental challenges faced during such adventures.
Juraj has some great short films from his expeditions on his YouTube Channel.
Fun write-up in XCMag about Juraj’s expedition in India that we briefly discuss in the show.
Watch Juraj’s incredible solo vol-biv across New Zealand we discuss in the show:
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Gavin McClurg (00:00.296)
I say this to a lot of people, I feel bad, but it's great to finally get you on the show. It's always hard to schedule these things. seems like you're roaming around the Alps and you're training for the big race for your second one and you're busy.
Juraj (00:24.805)
Yup.
Gavin McClurg (00:45.23)
but you're in your van and I don't even know where you are or where you're at.
Juraj (00:47.848)
Thank you for the for the first and I'm really happy that we finally get into discussion because it was really hard to maintain our time difference and everything. And right now I'm in Suttirol in Italian side of the Alps and yesterday we climbed with my XAlps supporter one big route and fly down with a tandem and we plan to do some similar stuff.
next days in the Dolomites.
Gavin McClurg (01:19.566)
Cool, are you in kind of the Kronplatz, Brunneco area or west or east of there?
Juraj (01:22.792)
I'm very close to Boston or it's a little bit more southern.
Gavin McClurg (01:27.214)
Okay, Murano. Yeah, it's one of my favorite places in the world. The food is great, the flying is great, it's a nice spot. How's the snow over there this year?
Juraj (01:33.703)
Hehehe.
Juraj (01:38.664)
This is a very difficult question because this winter in the Alps is definitely not a winter. It's very few or very little snow and right now down here it's about around 12 degrees Celsius in 500 meters above sea level. So yesterday basically we climbed as we call it as a summer version. So in the climbing shoes, you know.
Gavin McClurg (01:58.318)
way to.
Juraj (02:08.451)
using our fingers and it's February. Usually I climb with the February like with the pickaxe or ice axes with the crampons and in freezing cold and yesterday it was like 10 degrees in the wall.
Gavin McClurg (02:23.97)
Jeez, that's not good. We don't like that. Hopefully, we'll have a big spring. We've thankfully had a pretty cold winter so far, but just...
epic backcountry skiing, but we just had a big rain event last night and about 100 mile an hour winds on the peak top. So I think our snow just got smashed for a few days, but hopefully we'll get a, hopefully we'll get a restart. But well, you, you know, you and I flew together a bit in the 2019 race. I remember having a hike up with you above.
I can see there on our way to Lermous and then I never, never saw you again, but we've got some catching up to do with the X Alps, but also just the last five years. So mean, since that race has been busy for you, you've been lighting it up on bivy and expeditions and bunch of North Face climbing and flying escapades and.
Just before we started recording there, you were talking about a really cool solo adventure you just had in beer, back in the big 6,000 peaks, the really big stuff, way, what'd you say, 80 kilometers north of beer. So take it, where do you wanna start? We got New Zealand, we got Pakistan, we got a bunch of stuff we can talk about. Where would you like to start?
Juraj (03:41.83)
So I will start with this why you didn't see me in the rest of the race. You know why? Because you have been so, so fast and you run away and fly away and I never saw you again. Just you've been in front of me. So that's the answer of the question why you didn't see me in 2019. You've been in much better shape, man.
Gavin McClurg (03:49.098)
Aha, perfect.
Gavin McClurg (04:07.566)
You gotta give us old Farks credit for something, I guess. But yeah, you know, I remember looking at, I remember talking to my team. I can't remember if it was that day or when I got to Lermos, because, you know, we hiked up together and then I think I flew, I'm pretty sure, I think I flew more direct and you went a little bit more north and just chose a tough line, which I had experience through there, you know. I went through in 2015 and 2017. That can be a tricky spot.
Juraj (04:09.67)
Thank you.
Gavin McClurg (04:34.478)
I remember somebody on the team sitting out, man, you're, had a bad day, but I don't remember why.
Juraj (04:40.5)
Yeah, I mean I flew a little bit more north and I came half an hour later into Lermos and then I had a cap and it was a bit stormy so I need to wait because it was like a lee side take off and it was a really strong day that afternoon and you've been able to fly really really nice and we've been so slow and we need to fly or
Gavin McClurg (04:57.484)
Yeah.
Juraj (05:08.726)
fly a change direction because of the storms in the way, so that's why I flew the words there from Lermos more to the south and I was flying backwards and stuff like this rain, know storm, lightnings. Yeah, quite a fun.
Gavin McClurg (05:22.254)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (05:28.014)
I catching up with Cody, I think, the next day. That day leaving Lermous left him with a lot of questions, questions about what am I doing here? I think some pilots had some pretty wild experiences that day.
Juraj (05:37.125)
Yeah.
Juraj (05:43.992)
Yeah, experience doesn't need to be good, they need to be strong.
Gavin McClurg (05:48.896)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So why haven't you been doing the X-ops the last couple?
Juraj (05:50.117)
the
Juraj (05:56.716)
Yeah, I was trying to be a part of, but they didn't choose me. mean, the organization didn't choose me. So after 2019, I found myself as a man who is really enjoying the loneliness and like doing things by my own. And I started learning solo climbing or rope solo climbing, some of free solos, mostly in winter.
Gavin McClurg (06:02.255)
really?
Juraj (06:25.412)
And I started combining it with a flying back. So at 2022 winter and early spring of 23, I was doing the Alpine trilogy. the most, I'm sorry, most biggest, the most big north faces of the Alps, which is Eger, Matterhorn and Grandes Jorasses. So all of them I did in one winter.
Only Jorastis was 100 % successful from Matterhorn. I was not able to fly off and I ended on the descent in kind of small avalanche. So I need a helicopter pick up, but it was an experience, yeah, strong one, because it was my mistake. didn't.
I was so sure about my skill that I will fly off. I don't need to check out the descent route, you know, but I was trying one hour to fly off from Matterhorn and it ended in the situation that I was in the carabine, in the sling connected to the ice screw, which was screwed in this 60 degrees ice on the top. And my glider was below me in the vertical
Gavin McClurg (07:26.862)
Yeah.
Juraj (07:49.528)
part of the wall I was hanging down with the hat in front or let's say down and that was the point I was thinking like man probably you are not able to fly off this stuff. So I decided to do the sand but I did not know the route and I get a little bit lost in the east face 40 meters from the bivouac hut in 4000 meters and I didn't see it.
and I was not able to continue because it was really avalanchey and I started sliding so I called with the, as we say in Slovakia, with a long nose. I I lose the situation. I lost the control about situation so I need to call the helicopter to pick me up. And once they picked me up, I saw the hut 40 meters traverse of me. was like, oh man, really? Yeah, but...
Gavin McClurg (08:42.443)
man.
Juraj (08:48.071)
everybody's everybody's able to win but to accept the lose or the yeah that you've been how to say not winning it's not for everybody yeah so and the agar i did in four days it was the biggest experience till that time i was in the wall four days one day below the wall it was really cold i had a lot of
Gavin McClurg (08:59.208)
Yeah, these things are good, they humble us, right?
Juraj (09:17.157)
frozen fingers on the hands, on the legs too and on the top of the mountain was not so good wind so I had to descend with the paraglider after four days in the freezing really wet, really hungry, didn't eat for two days. I needed to descend by foot but that was not so hard descent, was okay. So yeah, but it was strong experience.
Gavin McClurg (09:39.662)
But you climb the Eiger solo via the north face by the standard route.
Juraj (09:48.351)
4 days of pure Ragnarok. Was good. Was really good.
Gavin McClurg (09:52.419)
Yeah
I can never think of the Eiger without thinking of the Eiger sanction with Clint Eastwood. It was quite cool. I don't know where you went through in 2019, but in 2019, after we went through the, Grindelwald, I had a little flight that morning across Grindelwald and I kind of stuck it in on the trail that goes up to the Eiger above Vangen.
Juraj (10:01.47)
Thank
Gavin McClurg (10:21.238)
I got a picture with some climbers right at that sign, right underneath the Eiger and the climbers were heading up. And it was quite nice. I got about 10 minutes to just stop and chill for a second and look and go, wow. I mean, I'd seen the Eiger many times. I've flown by it many times. But just to put my mind briefly in a, that'd be interesting to attack it from that side. It doesn't look easy.
Juraj (10:44.589)
Yeah, it does not. It's really not so easy. yeah, it was a beautiful experience. yeah, experience doesn't need to be just good. It needs to be strong. So this was beautiful because it was strong.
Gavin McClurg (10:49.963)
Super intimidating.
Gavin McClurg (11:02.574)
By strong you mean just an overwhelming experience. Yeah.
Juraj (11:06.755)
Yeah, I was freezing. I was scared. was tired. I was everything on the bad side, but also really excited on the top.
Gavin McClurg (11:11.362)
You had it all.
Gavin McClurg (11:19.53)
It's not much of an experience if it's easy, is it? I mean, that's why the X-OPS is so terrific. I mean, if it was easy, no one cares. It wouldn't be that big a deal.
Juraj (11:26.458)
Yeah, yeah, we love the, I call it the funny part, but yeah, the challenging one. And one of the things why I started with these things is to prepare mentally for the X-ops and for kind of this style of sport, which I like is to face the fear of myself or the weaknesses of myself. And that changed my life a lot.
I can say this Eiger experience.
Gavin McClurg (11:59.342)
What the? How old are you?
Juraj (12:01.338)
Mentally or physically, a big gap between the two numbers.
Gavin McClurg (12:07.008)
Excellent answer.
Juraj (12:08.282)
and
Gavin McClurg (12:10.594)
Well, let's go with physically.
Juraj (12:11.567)
Yeah, it's 33.
Gavin McClurg (12:16.59)
33. Okay, so you were 27, 28 when you did your first one, first XL.
Juraj (12:22.714)
yeah. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (12:25.558)
Okay, and how long have you been flying? When did you get into this?
Juraj (12:28.793)
I mean, I was starting flying because of my father put me on really two-liner, nine-cell, really bullshit glider in 1998. So I had six years when I first time fly and I landed in the cow shit storage place. But then I really started at 18, the cross country, because below 18, I mean, I don't have enough physical knowledge to understand what the hell is going on up there.
Gavin McClurg (12:37.985)
Really?
Juraj (12:58.426)
So from 18, so right now it's like 15 years of constant.
Gavin McClurg (13:04.622)
You've been at it quite a while. For some reason I thought, okay, interesting.
Juraj (13:09.157)
Yeah, but that doesn't mean that I know how to fly. The number of years doesn't, you know...
It's different.
Gavin McClurg (13:20.686)
That's true. We've all got a lot to learn in this sport. I have always said, and maybe this just makes myself feel better, because I'm 52. I'm a lot older than you are. And I didn't get into this until I was 36. But I'd often thought, growing up, I grew up ski racing. And I was really addicted to speed. And I was really stupid, as most people are when they're young. And I always thought,
Man, if I had gotten into flying when I was, you're it, know, when you did 18, I would have definitely killed myself. You know, that in other words, I feel like being a little older and a little wiser and a little less durable, a little less, you know, less God syndrome that was probably good for me. Was that ever, I don't know, when you were 18, were you really aware that this was a sport that could kill you?
Juraj (13:54.467)
Thanks
Juraj (14:01.274)
Hehehe.
Juraj (14:16.014)
Yeah, this is a really big question. Maybe I'm sorry if I will answer it bit longer, but yeah, I started in these years when mostly men are really like feeling undead or immortal. So yeah, my first years and still I'm with it.
I'm really pushing by my point of view. yeah, I'm flying and I have a fear. And I have flying in the lee side and all of this shit. I was hanging on the tree so many times and flying in thunderstorms and windy stuff and stuff like this. yeah, I mean, I get into the understanding that I can die and I accepted it like in 2014, I think.
So quite early in the age. And after this, just accepted it. So it opens a new horizons to me to, to fly and to, know like, okay, this could be the last time maybe. Or also with the, with the climbing, it's really, really connected. If you have the, the experience that you, or I felt in free soloing and I stopped myself in the last second, I felt like.
eight meters in verticality, then I started sliding on the snow. With the head down, I lost my ice axes. I had my face in the the tough snow. My bag of 20 kilos was on top of me and I stopped with my right elbow on the second try and I was like a few meters before the last drop and I will be dead. So after all of these experiences, it's quite
important to understand that, I mean, we are mortal and calculate with it. So, yeah, that's what I want to say. I'm sorry, my English probably in philosophical way is not enough to explain the things which I have in my mind.
Gavin McClurg (16:30.298)
I think you've done a really good job. I was gonna ask if you'd had a really close call and you just answered it. You obviously did. Did that... I mean, it's one thing to say, I know that this can kill me and I'm okay with it. It's another thing to almost live through that because it's not really so much us, is it? That the...
We can leave this world and that sucks, but it really more sucks for your family, for the people who love you. It's not something we can be cavalier about. I'm wondering if that experience in 2014, did it change your approach? Have you ratcheted down? Have you given yourself more margin or is it more that I'm at peace with this?
Juraj (17:24.759)
This is again, maybe a little bit long and complicated answer, but I found myself in antique philosophy called stoicism. Maybe you know a little bit about it. And one of the most important pillars of it, it's memento mori. So remember you are dead. And after that, I was speaking with my family quite a lot and yeah, you know, we live in, or my opinion is that.
Gavin McClurg (17:38.114)
Hmm, yeah.
Juraj (17:54.679)
We live in a free world, which means everybody's responsible for his deeds. And I mean, I'm not owned by my mother or my father. So if I die, kind of, yeah, it sucks, but it's my life. So yeah. And one of the things is that my father already died when I was in Antarctica in 2017 on the expedition. yeah.
I mean, with this in my family, we don't have a kind of problem that somebody is telling me, hey man, what I will do if you will die. That's why I'm still without the kids and single, of course. yeah, mean, parents or brother, it's all good with it. All good. I mean, they understand that I love this style of life. yeah, many times when I was going for, for example, my first
bass jump or when I was in India for the solo mission, I was writing to my brother like, hey man, here is my car. Maybe if I will not answer in two hours, I'm dead. And here are the money. I'm on to this guy. These are all the money and bring my glider to a young talents or whatever, you know, so, and he's all the time kind of accepting it. So, but I didn't see in there, in their thoughts. So.
Gavin McClurg (19:23.982)
I like hearing that. That's a great answer. The expedition in Antarctica, you were with your dad when he died?
Juraj (19:24.768)
That's the answer.
Juraj (19:34.985)
No, no, no, I was in that moment in a sailboat sailing back through the Drake's Passage in the Belfort Level 9. Quite wild, you know, about each stuff. So, yeah, and when I was leaving, he was already kind of in the hospital in bad condition, but he's...
Gavin McClurg (19:46.718)
proper.
Juraj (20:03.068)
become my father when he was 50 years old when I was it was quite old in that days. yeah, what I mean to say is that this experience quite opened my thinking about this problem, which is in those days probably a bit kind of on the side, but it's a part of the life. yeah.
Gavin McClurg (20:28.238)
Thanks for sharing that. Sorry about your dad. What were you doing down in America?
Juraj (20:31.54)
Yeah.
In Antarctica? Yeah, with one of my climbing partners, we started the project to climb the Virgin Mountain or do a first ascent on every continent, which we called the Seven Virgin Summits project. And the idea was to climb the mountain and fly down. So the first expedition was to Antarctica, the second was...
in the North America and Greenland in 2019, just after the X-Alps. part three was now in Asia, this Indian Himalayas stuff I did.
Gavin McClurg (21:17.784)
Are you more of a climber or a flyer? I mean, a flyer. Geez, pilot.
Juraj (21:21.266)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm definitely a pilot. That's my mentality. So it's easy to even see in my climbing. It's totally different approach to the situation. It's not like this hitting with the head, the rock, know, like I will fight through, but like a snake left, right, finding, you know, a doable route or yeah, kind of this stuff. And of course, do not fall.
Gavin McClurg (21:51.842)
Yeah, yeah, do not fall. Okay, before we have, we've already left the X-Alps, but we can't leave my favorite subject too early because we have to talk about New Zealand and the time in Pakistan with Aaron Durgati and the filming you were doing there and then also India, but I would love and I think the audience would love to hear, you you had this experience in 2019 and I'd like to just hear more about, you know,
Juraj (21:52.052)
Thank
Gavin McClurg (22:19.938)
Did that go personally well, not well? Were you happy? Were you sad? How did that all go down? But also, you've had typically, many athletes will do it consecutively. You didn't do it in 21 and 23, and now you're back. So you've had quite a bit of time to not only think about it, but probably get a lot of perspective from the first one.
that, okay, that's something I'm gonna change and that's something I need to do differently. I'd like to just hear your perspective on it.
Juraj (22:52.945)
Yeah, I was thinking a lot. That's definitely true. And the experience of 2019 was quite tough because before the race, got, or my relationship was, how to say, ended. It ends. And I was living in my car, kind of on the street, not
eating so much like once per two days, just a little not sleeping and I had really bad mental condition. I was really, you know how it is. Everybody get in the life gets through this kind of situation and I lost like 10 kilos before the race. So I was really thin. Yeah. 68 kilos and 183 centimeters. That's quite light.
Gavin McClurg (23:39.406)
Whoa. Geez.
Gavin McClurg (23:48.791)
Yeah.
Juraj (23:49.73)
So it was one of the strongest mental battles. I'm sorry, I hit the table. So it was one of the worst experiences of my life till then. And I did a lot of things bad. A lot of decisions have been really not clever. And I learned from that. And one of the most important things to learn.
Gavin McClurg (23:59.726)
That's okay.
Juraj (24:18.64)
From 2019 X Alps was finally to fly only in the Alps or mountains like that once because before X Alps I had the experience only or only mostly flying in Slovakia, which doesn't have valley winds. No fan. So I really, I was confused what the hell is going on in the.
in the Alps, know, the valley winds is the most important thing. You need to know how it works. And I do not know anything about it. Really. I was lost. So once I get in the valley winds, I was surprised like, what the hell? The takeoff was zero wind and here is 10 meters per second from the north. And then I fly on the other side and there was 10 meters from the south. Like, what the hell? Where the wind is going? Like, what the hell? You know, really confused and I'm not telling.
Nothing about fan. Yeah, that was totally I just don't know not know If we develop inside or nothing Yeah, if I don't know anything about value means about fan I I know like minus 20, you know some below nothing so
Gavin McClurg (25:26.696)
Yeah, just standard, standard value.
Gavin McClurg (25:36.067)
Right.
That race too, I think we have to remind people of some perspective. The weather in the 2019 race was really weird. I don't remember, I don't think we, I mean every team is different, but I don't remember ever going to a launch and having it be rowdy. was like everywhere up high, you could just take off from everywhere. But remember the first few days were
There was no thermals. It was just kind of stormy and but not stormy nasty. It was just tons of cloud and you know, I mean, I there's a lot of walking put it that way and then and then the sun came out and there was no thermals. I mean it was just so hot and so stable. You know that big that big sandstorm came in from Africa from northern Africa and I mean.
Juraj (26:23.904)
Yeah!
Juraj (26:31.789)
See ya.
Gavin McClurg (26:35.49)
Walking through Chamonix was over 100 degrees Fahrenheit, so that's 30 something Celsius. That was just crazy. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there you go. And just stupid. It was just ridiculous. yeah, it was weird. In some ways, it was the least dangerous ex-Alps I've participated in, certainly compared to 21. But it was just bizarre. It was just really
Juraj (26:41.759)
It was even more than 40.
Juraj (27:04.267)
Yeah, I was lost too, man. I really remember everything you said. That day with the sandstorm or like air from Africa hit me when I was on Titlis. Yeah, and I was like, yeah, I was hiking up half of day because I landed in 2300 on the north side and I was not able to climb up. So I need to hike up. I was totally done when I get up.
on the takeoff in 3000 something was the titlis and I took off and I said to myself, hell yes and now you all in front of me will see, will see how I will fly and I just glide till I didn't even reach the Grindelwald even the airspace towards Grindelwald was or towards Eger turn point was turned off. I was not able to glide there. I was just sinking zero nothing, zero nothing.
Gavin McClurg (27:43.15)
fly 100K.
Juraj (28:01.132)
No value wins. Yeah. Now I know that if you don't have value, that's probably a no thermos, but that way I was like, what the hell? And then I hike. And that day you said in Chamonix 100 Fahrenheit, was, I was dead or the next day after it, I was hiking towards St. Hilaire, the two at the turn point and man, my rubber on my shoes, it's gone. It's gone.
Gavin McClurg (28:07.511)
Right.
Juraj (28:30.087)
on the asphalt it just melted. Really the glue which connects the rubber to my shoe it melted and it's gone. Man, it's so crazy hot.
Gavin McClurg (28:31.0)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (28:36.942)
I know, I know man.
Gavin McClurg (28:42.478)
That day, the day you're, I'm sure that you drew, you flew off Titliss. So I did a couple little moves out of Chamonix the next morning and I was going down towards the St. Hilaire Turnpoint and launched it 11 and it should have been booming and I didn't get a single thermal and I landed and I decided, okay, well, if I climb again, it was a big climb. It was like 2000, I know if was 2000.
probably 1500 meters, but it was a big climb. was a big commitment to get up tall again. This was on the east side of the valley, you know, heading down to St. Hilaire, but it was going back up into pretty big terrain. And I thought, okay, I could either walk to St. Hilaire 60K or I could give it a try. And so I'm going to give it a try. You always have to try, right? So it was so hot that my buddy Ben and I, we were packing snow onto the back of our necks and onto our...
Juraj (29:22.229)
Mm-hmm.
Gavin McClurg (29:37.902)
I mean, it was so, it was so hot. just to do anything to cool down. I couldn't believe it. And the temperature at the top of the mountain after climbing 1500 meters was exactly the same as it was on the ground. There had been no very, it hadn't cooled one degree. And I thought that's really not good for the laps rate. I don't think this is gonna work. And I took off at three in the afternoon, I mean, three in the afternoon in the middle of summer and...
Juraj (29:57.873)
Hahaha
Gavin McClurg (30:06.666)
I didn't hear a single beep from my vario all the way to the ground. It was the most depressing flight I've ever had in my whole life. I landed back down in the valley and looked at my, you know, remember I'd said it was gonna be 60K to walk or, you know, I'd looked down and it was still 38 kilometers to walk to St. Hilaire. just, my God, the wheels came off right then. I just thought that's not even possible.
Juraj (30:26.461)
Hahaha
Juraj (30:35.113)
That was crazy, In the day when I lost my rubber from the shoes, I started in the valley north of Chamonix. is Val d'Iver, I think it calls. There is a famous place for ski races because I was flying more to the north. I took off at 12 in 2500 and I spent like an hour
Gavin McClurg (30:35.522)
What the hell just happened?
Gavin McClurg (30:57.654)
Yep. Yep.
Juraj (31:04.796)
to cross slightly towards Pasi and there I get finally out of this, we call it a soup, when you are below the inversion. Man, I was kicked out in seven or six meters per second up to 3,800 and it was not still in the cloud base and it was flying like crazy, crazy, crazy good.
Gavin McClurg (31:16.802)
Yeah. Yeah.
Juraj (31:34.492)
because I was above. In that day some of the people top playing on Mont Blanc, maybe you know, but they took off from 3-8.
Gavin McClurg (31:36.91)
above it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Remember that was the day that Toma got to 6,000 meters or something down by Brie and Son. I was walking to St. Hilaire and Toma was at 6,000 meters. I've never been so depressed. I just thought, what the fuck? What, really?
Juraj (31:46.244)
Crazy man,
Juraj (31:56.293)
Yeah, me too. And he was flying without the gloves, know, without the balaclava, without the gloves and without the sunglasses. said to them, that day and that man is, he is a god. I cannot survive in 6,000 without the gloves, Probably was too hot too.
And you see it, was again very hard experience, but now we're logging because what was hard to survive.
Gavin McClurg (32:26.434)
Yeah, of course, right? Type 3 fun. Type 3 fun. When you're doing it, it's miserable. You look back and it's the best thing you've ever done.
Juraj (32:32.741)
Yeah, at the last moment till St. Hilaire of walking, working to St. Hilaire, I remember that I have kind of not a blackout, but I was really not consciousness 100%. I was just like, my supporters speak to me and I was like, really not answering. So they put me in the like, with it with the force, they forced me to, to, to go in the water. And after 10 or 15 minutes in the water, I finally
I myself that I can speak again because I was probably overheated. And at the moment we came to St. Hilarion and I was like, yeah, after it was 10 days, yeah, finally it's gone. And now, now I want to continue. You know, I was 10 days dreaming about the moment when it ends and when it ends, I was like, hey, I really want to continue one or two days more at least.
Gavin McClurg (33:20.536)
Right. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (33:29.934)
Yeah, always. I always feel that. I have a funny story from that night. So the very last night I was flying through LaGrove and really having a good flight. was, you know, finally that, like you said, the soup had passed and it finally gotten better and I was up in big terrain and I was making good time and then a huge cell blew up over Brienzón and I flew as far as I could into the storm and then it forced me to the ground. The gust front was nasty.
So I landed and I started walking and I realized that Toby was just in front of me, but he had top landed. And I thought, man, I don't think he's gonna get down before the cutoff. He's gonna get stuck up there so I can get him. The race was over the next day at whatever it is, 11 a.m. I thought, okay, I can get him. And then Marcus Anders was in Brianne Sohn and I didn't realize this, but he'd been hurt. And so he hadn't moved in a long time. And I thought, man, he must be really tired. He actually was hurt. didn't know that till after the race, but.
Juraj (34:26.145)
Mm-hmm.
Gavin McClurg (34:27.82)
I thought, man, I can pick up two spots here. This is great. So I hadn't pulled my night pass and I was all fired up. so I walked all night and I get through Brienne Saund, so now I'm ahead of both of them. But then you start in your head, maybe he could fly over me in the morning, those bastards. And I gotta keep pushing, keep pushing. And so I'm walking up to the pass. I forget, it's not the Col d'Anghel, but it's where they start those huge 300 FAI. I forget the name of that pass, really famous for the.
Juraj (34:29.902)
yeah.
Gavin McClurg (34:57.42)
Tour de France too, anyway, it's east of Brienzone. You know what? Okay, Col de la Zar or something, I think it's called. And so I'm walking up to that and I start hallucinating and it's three o'clock in the morning, I'm out of it. I'm walking barefoot. My feet are so trashed and so mangled from all the heat from the days before that I'm not even wearing shoes because they hurt too much. So I'm actually walking barefoot.
Juraj (34:58.593)
Yeah, I know.
Juraj (35:03.713)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gavin McClurg (35:22.766)
And I'm not making any time, I'm barely moving, you know? And the next thing I know, Ben, my supporter's kicking me. And I wake up and apparently, I don't remember this, but apparently I go, stop kicking me, man, let me sleep. And he goes, dude, you can't sleep in the middle of the road. So they had been driving up to the pass and noticed that I stopped moving on the live tracking, drove back down and I was right in the middle of the road.
Juraj (35:38.256)
Okay.
Juraj (35:47.455)
Man. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (35:50.892)
Just passed out, not even on the side of the road, just hanging out in the middle of the road, asleep.
Juraj (35:53.639)
In the middle. Man, these are the experiences. But I can say I really love this in some way. It's not possible to do it every year and like once per month or whatever. You need to get your stuff together and your body reconvalescence for one or two years. But then I cannot wait for that. This again.
Gavin McClurg (36:00.416)
I love it.
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (36:21.24)
Yeah, it's great. mean, Nate scales. He's a friend of mine that lives right down the street here and he did it in 2007 and he said, you know, there's only one way to get there and the ex-elps is going to get you there. I love that saying. I mean, we all, know what that means by getting there. You get to that crazy place in your mind. That's just, it is exciting. It's terrific. You know, it comes from that incredible combination of, you know, exhaustion and adrenaline and training and everything.
Juraj (36:33.032)
Thank
Juraj (36:41.375)
That's what what
Gavin McClurg (36:50.839)
fear all of it. just combines into this cocktail in your mind of, it's so good.
Juraj (36:57.417)
Yeah, it's so good. And I can say it's addictive. Addictive cocktail. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, gods, that our bodies are not able to do it so often. otherwise it's a deadly, deadly cocktail. That's what Aaron told me. You know, man, these mix-ups, that's kind of gladiator fights of Rome.
Gavin McClurg (37:02.636)
That's very addictive. Yeah, it's very, very addictive cocktail.
Gavin McClurg (37:13.464)
Thank God.
Yes, for sure. Yeah.
Juraj (37:24.924)
kind of this stuff and I really, really get it. In one way we can see a danger or whatever but it's fun in a strong way but yeah, that's how I understood it.
Gavin McClurg (37:42.028)
Yeah, for sure. So, okay, so second part of that question was, what are you changing this time around? How is your approach changing because of your first experience?
Juraj (37:54.152)
So first of all, I was flying a lot in the Alps and mostly in the Alps. I stopped flying in my home country or like the countries where aren't the valley winds. And I was trying to fly a lot of VWAC flying, which means flying not the usual and not the best XC routes only. So to like simulate the X Alps feelings.
In some way, course, the bivouac flying, it's much more slower and stuff like this, but at least it has much more common with the Xalps style than the classic XC flying, which I was doing before. Yeah, I was also thinking more about my supporting team and planning, of course, and learning to be independent in decisions and
how to say, we call it like to sniff or to feel the air without to see the weather forecast. You it's just you wake up, you look and say, okay, today's a stable day because there's a south wind. can see in the air something like soup and blah, blah, blah, Yeah, dirty or okay, now it's cold front. And, know, like to be
Gavin McClurg (39:17.474)
Dirty. Yep.
Juraj (39:23.197)
as little addictive to the help of the others, which in my opinion, in my situation was mostly the most common mistake was to not... I wasn't able to make a big decision alone. I all the time asked my supporters, what do you think, how, where I should fly? That's...
Gavin McClurg (39:29.838)
Mmm.
Gavin McClurg (39:45.166)
Mm.
Juraj (39:51.012)
One of the things and the last is that I flew almost all of the Alps by myself. I basically everywhere or not everywhere, but I was in many places and now I'm training a lot and I will fly at least one or two times before the race by my own.
Gavin McClurg (40:14.55)
route basically the route. We don't know exactly the route yet but you can you know some things are pretty close.
Juraj (40:18.297)
Yeah, but we will get it in March, which is pretty soon. We will know the route and I have free time. I'm not working anymore and I will just concentrate on observing the route and flying it as much as possible.
Gavin McClurg (40:35.714)
What is your work?
Juraj (40:37.243)
Yeah, I'm of course a tandem pilot,
Gavin McClurg (40:40.332)
Okay. And you did kind of a cool tandem project with Aaron Dhergadi in Pakistan this last summer.
Juraj (40:48.665)
Yeah, yeah, we have been involved in filming some 3D movie.
Sorry, sorry man, my supporter which is with me in one, he needs to leave so make some noises. Okay, now he's gone. So, yeah, we've been involved in filming of 3D movie in the Pakistan and I was a tandem pilot for the cameraman and we've been flying with 3D camera on I think three meter long aerodynamically stabilized
How to say? Pole, where was the camera? So three meters pole with four propellers, which working as the gimbal and camera for 80,000 euro with the 12 object, yeah, with the 12 glasses and we need to manage it in the air. And I don't know how many times you've been flying in Pakistan, but.
Gavin McClurg (41:44.974)
Jeez.
Juraj (41:57.098)
There is only rocks and glacier and both things are very dangerous to land. And if you can imagine to land so high in such a dangerous place with almost no rescue possibilities with the EMC tandem, plus a lot of crazy expensive gear with skis and ski boots on, that's something, I mean.
Gavin McClurg (42:28.042)
Jeez, that sounds intense, man. I'm sweating just hearing about it. Man, I mean, and you're also in really thin air, so you're moving fast.
Juraj (42:36.298)
Yeah, that's what I said. You are landing probably in high altitude. the best top land and fly off with the tandem E &C tandem was in 5300 or 5500. I'm not really sure now, but man, that was crazy. Top land with the tandem, with the camera, with the skis and took off too.
Gavin McClurg (43:01.73)
And what, what are you, were you filming, you know, kind of the combo thing that, that Aaron's been doing and you've been doing, or was it more just the beauty of flight? What was the, what was the capture mission?
Juraj (43:13.238)
The capture mission was to film Aaron and his friend Matthias doing combos, so flying, skiing together. And I was kind of following them with the cameraman and shooting in the air the 3D shots, which as I saw them, they are really, really awesome and beautiful. Really.
Gavin McClurg (43:20.97)
okay, okay.
Gavin McClurg (43:35.07)
Man, I mean that kind of that kind of lens is gonna capture it Amazing high-def. It was the cameraman of pilot as well
Juraj (43:42.631)
No, no, no, no, but Malteneer, maybe you know him, Jonathan Griffith?
Gavin McClurg (43:48.401)
for him name, yeah. Was he totally cool with it or was he spooked?
Juraj (43:53.045)
We've been training and flying in the Alps too before Mont Blanc area. And after a while he gets quite good. you know what the funny thing was? He was most of the time, not most, all of the time he was watching in the phone, which was capturing or transferring the, what is the camera capturing. And he was not puking.
Gavin McClurg (44:16.46)
Yeah, I'll finish.
Juraj (44:19.605)
Pakistan in six and a half thousand meters altitude we get, thermaling like crazy. Man, I'm really impressed about this guy. How strong is his stomach?
Gavin McClurg (44:20.675)
Really?
Gavin McClurg (44:31.406)
Yeah, no kidding. I mean, and you're also dealing with cold and gloves and yeah. You remember, you remember John Sylvester's film, you know, the Birdman of the Care Corps, man? That guy was puking all the time. It's brutal.
Juraj (44:35.624)
Yeah.
Juraj (44:39.957)
Thank
Juraj (44:44.647)
Yeah, yeah,
I was scared about this, but he never puked. Once or two times he was kind of sick, but he all the time managed it. Yeah, pure fighter.
Gavin McClurg (44:58.626)
Yeah, no kidding. You must be, you've got the, what am I trying to say?
Gavin McClurg (45:10.674)
I mean, I just think that I would be scared to death doing that. Everything for me changes when I do, I've never flown commercial tan-ups. You know, just fly my family and stuff, but doing that, that's a lot of pressure. You're good under pressure.
Juraj (45:25.681)
I enjoyed that. was, mean, again, it's with this connection with the mountaineering and solo missions and long term and stuff like this. I felt really good there. It was a challenging, of course, but all of these responsibility and thinking about the situation and kind of, you know, pushing like, yeah, let's go, let's do it. Let's try our best. you know, in some way we
Gavin McClurg (45:27.778)
Yeah, you must.
Juraj (45:53.969)
we can speak about some danger, I'm in some pushing the limits. But I was also discussing with Aaron and the whole situation and what is my opinion and stuff like this. And sometimes I was even the guy who choose like, guys, I think now like this, now like that, this is impossible, you know, kind of not really just head in front, but
thinking and pushing when you know this is possible or not. for me it was good school and I was enjoying even this pressure which was put on me because after the expedition Aaron even told me like, man, I will never do this like you, like to be a tandem pilot there.
Gavin McClurg (46:48.526)
I would never do that for sure. way. Tell me about the dynamic of working with Aaron. You know, I've done a lot with Aaron. I really like Aaron. I love his approach. I've done some training with him. I've never worked intimately like you did at all. you know, his approach to, he takes a lot of risk, massive amount of risk, and he's incredibly confident.
I would imagine working in that kind of environment, was it hard in terms of keeping to your own risk profile and what you're comfortable with? Did it allow you to push too far? don't know. See what I'm saying? Is it a dynamic that you struggled with or was it pretty straightforward?
Juraj (47:42.288)
I was working with Aaron even before and I know him for quite a lot of years and the dynamic, I don't know how it really sounds in English, but in my opinion, it was all good. I didn't see any problem. And we did also before a lot of combo missions and free soloing and stuff like that. I mean,
He chose me to be a part of this expedition because he know me personally and we share some tough experiences together. So I'm glad I was happy to be there. And I think we did a very good job without any kind of pushing one or another into something which we feel as something not possible. we tried. It was very bad weather.
Very, very, very bad weather, as the people said. was very low cloud base, just six and a half thousand windy stormy. was once we flew, it was like 70 or 90 kilometers wind in 7,000 meters. we've been flying like tandem and shooting and stuff up to the Trangotower because we felt it's all good or it's doable.
We also face, we have been facing some snowing there and as far as we know, snowing in mountains like Himalayas and Karakorum, it's super strong. It's not nothing which you can compare here in the Alps. There's sometimes a hundred kilometers wind because of the snow in the valley and the ground is flying. And once I was hiking and the rocks.
been flying. Small ones, but still they've been kind of more flying, more going to the distance than falling, you know, the glide ratio better than one to one. I was like, Hmm, they are flying. So what I want to say, it was really nice experience. I was pushing a little bit limits, but it was this X-Alps style, you know, kind of. So all good. man. Awesome.
Gavin McClurg (49:38.52)
You're right.
Gavin McClurg (49:50.99)
It sounds like good training, good training for the race coming up. I mean, I guess everything's good training, isn't it? mean, watching Kriegel and Peter last year do their 4,000 peak thing, I thought, well, Jesus, now nobody's going to beat them. It's a perfect training.
Juraj (50:00.626)
Yeah.
Juraj (50:05.085)
Yeah, nobody. Again. Yeah. Yeah, it was awesome. Awesome to watch it.
Gavin McClurg (50:14.093)
That was awesome. That was awesome. Okay, so we got to talk about New Zealand. You did a solo bivy. It was about a thousand K or something.
Juraj (50:21.705)
Yeah, thousand one hundred, yeah.
Gavin McClurg (50:24.408)
Okay, where'd you start, where'd end? What were the cruxes?
Juraj (50:27.625)
So I started in Queenstown and I am usually setting like three levels of goals. So one is pessimistic, is optimistic and one is like God level. So my optimistic was 660 Ks to the north, close to the Nelson, which is as I see the last possible place to fly free.
only by paraglider without a lot of walking because there is a CTR which hits the ground or 300 above ground level, which is super low. And that was my goal to not break the rules or the airspace wherever I'm flying. So I started and first day I flew the second longest flight of New Zealand and the longest flight of
Gavin McClurg (51:23.96)
Really?
Juraj (51:25.091)
X contest on New Zealand, like 220k's. Because it was good. man, yeah. People say it wasn't good, but you know, I was on X Alps. Good means something different.
Gavin McClurg (51:29.464)
Wow, you good weather,
Juraj (51:38.81)
It was stormy, rainy, but big salp style. then I sleep in my tent, flying every day, sometimes 40, sometimes walking 20 Ks, sometimes flying 180, whatever. Yeah. And after, I think it was like 14 days, I came to Nelson where I landed exactly on the most furthest point I can get by air.
legally and then I said to myself like hell I still have a lot of time what I should do here should I drink or party or no I will fly back so then I hitchhiked to the most north city of South Island of New Zealand which actually right now I I forget the name it's not Nelson it's how it calls man
Gavin McClurg (52:38.296)
Right across from Wellington, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, search of the P, right?
Juraj (52:39.761)
Yeah.
Juraj (52:44.252)
Nah, probably not with the P, but... I can check it out on the map, but I will need a little bit of time, yeah? Because that's kind of important thing.
Gavin McClurg (52:48.908)
No. Yeah, it's okay.
Yeah, I know what you're talking about. I've been around the South Island several times, I can picture it, but I can't name it.
Juraj (53:00.996)
Yeah... Okay, so I didn't land in Nelson, I landed in Blenheim and I hitchhiked to Nelson. I'm sorry.
Gavin McClurg (53:09.678)
Okay, okay, got you. So Nelson's the top one.
Juraj (53:12.481)
Yeah. So I landed in Blenheim and I said to myself, hell yeah, I still have a lot of time. What I should do? Should I drink or should I fly? So I decided to fly back. I hitchhiked to Nelson where I can start flying again, because even there is an airport, but their airspace is really designed to be able to fly away. And I started flying and as I knew the situation and I understood on the way.
the fern, the valley winds there and also the sea breeze, which is quite strong in New Zealand mountains. And I flew in like a few days towards the highest peak of New Zealand, Aoraki, how it calls in English, Mount Cook. Yeah. I landed very close to Mount Cook and then comes the heat wave, very similar as the X-Alps in 2019. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (54:02.556)
Cook, yeah?
Gavin McClurg (54:08.77)
Really?
Juraj (54:10.084)
I was not able to over climb 1,700 meters, which is like 500 below the peaks. So then I just, I was just hoping or hoping jumping like a frog a few kilometers per day. And after 27 days, I very close. Yeah. 30 kilometers south of Mount Cook and
It was 1,100 kilometers of World Beef solo. So I ended that trip. It was a really beautiful experience because I was... except one day of hitchhiking and one day of flying from Nelson, I didn't see paragliders and people and stuff like that. So it was a really beautiful experience and I'm really big fan and let's say a nerd of...
Gavin McClurg (54:45.038)
Wow.
Juraj (55:05.951)
Lord of the Rings and stuff like that and it was really nice to feel that feeling that I'm flying across the middle earth as an eagle. It was really, really beautiful. Those who really want to have some feeling, have a document on YouTube which has at least one hour, but it's worth it.
Gavin McClurg (55:25.378)
film was beautiful. Yeah, I watched it before we did this. I watched it last week just kind of in prep to talk.
Juraj (55:35.875)
It was a dream.
Gavin McClurg (55:37.238)
It's cool that you talk about the Lord of the Rings. You know, was back in my sailing days. This was before my flying days at all, but I was in New Zealand for all three years. So all three releases of the Lord of the Rings. I was actually there in New Zealand and there was this tiny, I was up on the North Island by the Bay of Islands and there was this tiny little theater that was a dinner theater. So you could go early and get dinner and have a nice lamb. then, and then, you know, remember it would come out at midnight.
Juraj (56:01.059)
Mm-hmm.
Gavin McClurg (56:06.83)
of the opening day, which was December 19th, all three of those years. And that was really neat, man. That was really cool to be in New Zealand and all the hype and all, everybody's dressed up and, you know, was, these were such big books of my youth, you know.
Juraj (56:13.443)
Juraj (56:21.123)
Don't tell me this. Don't tell me this. I will sacrifice my left leg to be a part of that diamond place.
What the hell?
Gavin McClurg (56:31.956)
It was neat. It was really cool. was really, you you just felt like you were in Morgor, you know, you were there.
Juraj (56:38.238)
I'm jealous.
Gavin McClurg (56:44.046)
Well, finally I get to say something that makes you jealous. I've been jealous about all the things you've been up to lately. Fantastic. What do you think it is? You know, not a lot of people, I used to instruct for hour bound and we had a portion of our course, I often instruct 30 day courses and you know, these were mostly kids. They were 16 to 18 years old and a big
Juraj (56:45.103)
Hahaha
Gavin McClurg (57:11.446)
chapter I guess of a 30-day course on an hour bound course is solo. You we would put the kids out on solo for 72 hours would be the max, it'd be three days. But you'd only give them a tiny little bit of food and really nothing to do and you would tell a story. There's a story about Colorado Outward Bound School back in the day in the 50s where a train gets trapped and they can't get resupply into them and the instructors were really smart and they decided okay we don't have any food.
Juraj (57:19.039)
Mm-hmm.
Gavin McClurg (57:41.134)
Everybody's got to live. We can't break the group up. So we're going to put everybody on solo. So what they do is they put everybody out where you're by yourself and it would be kind of a navigational trick to see somebody else. And you would say, OK, you're going to get bored. You're going to want to get up. And you're going to want to go do stuff. But if you do stuff, you're going to burn calories. And we don't have any food. So the best thing to do is sit and be quiet.
Juraj (57:53.663)
Mm-hmm.
Juraj (58:02.651)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (58:07.264)
and don't do anything. Don't burn calories. We're just waiting for the train to come in. And what they learned after this was that not all, but six of 10 had a really powerful experience. And at the end of the 30-day course, of all the things they did, the river, the mountains, and the navigation, and leading, and cooking, and becoming independent in the outdoors, the solo was the most important. It was the
It was the biggest piece, because the thing that made them the most scared going into it, because most people, not just kids, but most people never spend any time alone in their life. It's just not something humans are good at doing or do it, and not very purposefully normally, unless you're going to do a 10-day silent retreat or something. So anyway, my point is we would put these kids out on solo, and it was about that.
Our patrols were always 10 students and usually six. It wasn't all of them. Some of them just hated it. But six of 10, typically at the end, when you kind of do your debrief at the end of this thing, that was the most powerful part of their experience. My very long-winded question to you is, why do you like being solo? What do you think has made you gravitate towards that kind of travel?
And what are people missing that don't do it?
Juraj (59:35.836)
Yeah, as you said, it's a really strong experience and it wasn't the first solo mission at all. I was flying the first Volbiv in 2014 alone in Romania, which is not the super wild country, but there are bears which can kill you. You can lost it's no signal and stuff like that. For a Europe pretty wild one.
Compared to Alps, it's much, much more wilder, even to my home country, Slovakia, which is like one of my neighbor in my village was destroyed by the bear like a hundred meters from the house. So it's kind of, there is some nature, let's say. Yeah. And what the thing on the solo missions after Himalayas and many other places I've been visiting, it's that.
Gavin McClurg (01:00:15.118)
Wow.
Gavin McClurg (01:00:19.778)
Yeah, yeah.
Juraj (01:00:29.965)
that's only on myself, everything. And these decisions is a game. And I like that because I'm really thinking and comparing every of my decisions. One is, you know, like to get the water, how you can get the water there. And is this water clean or whatever, you know, everything you need to think. And that means that I forget
about now with my supporter coming back so fast fast!
Gavin McClurg (01:01:08.515)
Bye.
Juraj (01:01:09.947)
He's going to be seated and I try to not forget my... So, decisions. And this game, it's a mental game and... In that moment I'm forgetting about any problem from home, know, like paying the bills or whatever. It's just you and how to survive and how to be as effective as possible. So, all of the solo missions or experiences to me are...
a way how to find peace in myself and to understand myself as a spirit, know, what's inside because when people are with somebody else, you can speak and if you can speak, can forget the things, the bad decisions you did not only by choosing the wrong water source, but I mean
the mistakes of your life. Like you are angry with somebody else or you whatever, you know, the classic problems. And when you are alone, your mind will give it to you again, like, you made this mistake and you make this friend angry or, you know, this wasn't a good decision and stuff like this. And not everybody can handle own mistakes.
does or, or, I'm sorry, I'm translating, my thoughts in Slovakian directly in English. And I don't mean he is like you, but it's how we say. yeah, this, this is a really strong mental game. And it, for me, it helps to be better person when I am much, much, or a lot of time alone because I can, sort my thoughts and,
Gavin McClurg (01:02:46.178)
Yeah, that's good.
Juraj (01:03:07.067)
uh... think about uh... the things i i made in the past that's one of the important thing of the solo and as you said saving energy saving energy when i came to new zealand i bring a food with me which uh... most of it like over fifty percent was with the meat and you know importing the the meat in new zealand it's forbidden so uh...
policemen on the airport took half of my food and I became not I'm not vegan I'm not vegetarian I'm not I'm eating just everything in those days and they took all of my meat so I become vegan in one day and I lost 10 kilos I lost 10 kilos in 27 days and I lost a lot of my hair from my head because yeah
Gavin McClurg (01:04:03.48)
Really? Holy shit.
Juraj (01:04:04.758)
It was, man, I had, I had plan of 500 grams of food per day. Yeah. and I ended with 20, 250 grams and vegan. I lost. Yeah, man, I, you know, my body wasn't ready for that. And I lost, I lost. was really, really weak. So I was basically really, really flying.
Gavin McClurg (01:04:21.47)
Let this be a warning to vegans.
Juraj (01:04:34.362)
and land as close as possible to the next takeoff. Basically, most of the time I was taking off from the same spot where I landed and where I camped. So I was really saving energy, but still I lost 10 kilos.
Gavin McClurg (01:04:49.556)
Yeah, just try to be as efficient as you possibly can.
Gavin McClurg (01:04:57.154)
It's interesting what you say about decisions. I can really relate to that. And I've talked about it before on the show, so I won't bore you all who've listened to all these with the same story again. But I really got to see this very up close and personal because I had done quite a few big solo mission trips before the Alaska thing with Dave Turner. But with Dave Turner, it was
was really cool because I got to see both sides of it in the same expedition. So he and I were together for the first, let's see, I guess it was 21 or 22 days. And for that period of the time, we also had the film crew. So for many days we had no film crew because they couldn't get to us or whatever. Red Bull cutoff funding, there's lots of reasons. So some of that time it was just Dave and I.
Juraj (01:05:44.023)
Mm.
Juraj (01:05:47.959)
Thank you.
Gavin McClurg (01:05:54.67)
And the problem with Alaska was that every decision to go up was always a really hard decision because until we got to the north side of the range, getting through terrain is really gnarly. It's all alder. It's just nasty and the bugs and you know, so
Juraj (01:06:11.937)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (01:06:18.146)
to take the time and the energy to go up 3000 feet to find a launch that you didn't know was there or not. Our maps sucked and we didn't have anything. And so it was all visual, you're down in the low lens and it's hard to get up. so it just, every decision seemed to have a lot of weight on it. And it was never, if it was the wrong decision, it wasn't like, if it had been my decision and it sucked, it wasn't like Dave was.
hitting me over the head and blaming me or anything. It was never that. We had a very good rapport and it was all working, but I've just found that the decision making was almost impossible for both of us because you just didn't want to be the one making the wrong decision. And when he left, and the film crew left too, so Red Bull was just, okay, we're done. You've made it past an all-lead, that's the end of the film. And I said, no.
Juraj (01:06:48.425)
Mm.
Juraj (01:07:16.437)
You
Gavin McClurg (01:07:16.99)
That's not the mission. I'm gonna keep going whether the film ends there or not, but I'll film everything and I'm gonna keep going. So from then on, I was totally alone until the end. And that's in the film. You get to see part of that. it got, I'm not, this isn't a negative about Dave at all, but the trip got so much better after everybody left because...
I had to own every decision. There was one day where I walked up to launch and sat there and threw rocks at my shoes for like 10 hours because it was blowing over the back. couldn't launch. I didn't want to walk back down because I've got bad knees. I never walked back down. So I just sat there all day and it was great. And at the end of the day, it finally turned around. It was still wasn't great, but I hadn't.
epic flight and I ended up flying with a golden eagle and flew across this huge glacier, which I didn't know how I was going to make it across. mean, it was, it was a critical step that I'm pretty convinced would not have happened if I was with anybody because when you're with somebody, then you start going, well, what should we do? What should we do? I wish you do this. Let's do this. And it wouldn't have, it just wouldn't have happened the way it did. And the way it did for me ended up being beautiful and just incredible.
And I don't know, there's some kind of magic about being solo, but there's also, I find it a lot less stressful. Does that make sense? Yeah.
Juraj (01:08:35.282)
Yeah, I agree. I agree. Also with soloing not only in flying but also in climbing or mountaineering, it's the same feeling which you had. I have too. Even in New Zealand, there were days where I flew very close to what think it calls arrowhead peak or something like this.
And I landed and I make water or whatever and I say, oh yeah, tomorrow I will fly like hell from here or whatever. And in the morning I bombed out and I flew backwards like three kilometers heading back. And I landed on the opposite side of the valley and I was like, oh shit. Yeah, but nevermind. I played a little bit of ACDC and enjoy a day and you know what I did next day? I hiked 20 kilometers backwards for the better spot, you know?
And was all good. I was walking in the middle of nowhere, crossing the rivers without any path or whatever. And I was just enjoying singing like, hell yeah, I'm on the end of the world and I have some problems, but I will find it out and we'll see what happens. And at the end, in two days, I was outside of the mountains and I was able to fly really peacefully and good.
At the end I lost two or let's say two and a half days flying backwards. there are decisions and once you are alone you are the only guy who is responsible and who made a wrong or good decision but never know.
Gavin McClurg (01:10:23.502)
I think the critical thing there, well, there's two critical things. One is let's not BS. The reason you have such a great day is because you were listening to ACDC. And two, I'm a big fan. And two, think that...
When you're solo too, you're allowed to, I don't know. I love the X-Alps because you're racing, but I love not racing. And what I mean by this sounds obvious, when your goal is kind of loose and gray and you don't have a timeframe, then like you said, your only goal is to survive. And man, that's a nice goal.
just that's the most simple, beautiful, like you said, everything else drops away. And it's a really nice space to be in, especially for long periods of time. Like you said, with Alaska, when I did the expedition with Will Gad, the last thing I wanted to do was to get to the end, really with the ex-Alps too. I mentally actually.
really have struggled with that race because you racing for the end. of course, the one time I made Monaco was very, very special. But the next day I was really sad because it's over. And now what? And people aren't cooking for me anymore. don't get to wear them. We just don't get to go hammer anymore. It all just ends. Everybody goes home. And so yeah, it's a special head space to be in.
Like I said, go the wrong way for a couple of days. Who cares?
Juraj (01:12:03.019)
Yeah, I can see we have a very similar experiences and there is Socrates quote there is a there is a Majority which you don't need to speak because they will never understand and there is minority Which you also don't need to speak because they know even without words and I think we are this minority which have very similar experiences so when you are sharing your
observations, I'm just smiling because I see and I feel the same.
Gavin McClurg (01:12:38.446)
Well, Uriah, it's been really good. I'm glad we finally connected. We didn't get to know each other very well in the 2019 race. We had a nice day together for a bit. But this time, hopefully, I'll get to spend more time with you. I'm going to be doing the reporting on it again. So I'll be bouncing around the course with you guys and hopefully flying with you a bit. But I wish you all the best in your preparations. Keep crushing all the stuff you're doing.
Juraj (01:12:53.937)
Cool
Gavin McClurg (01:13:06.296)
really inspiring a lot of people, including myself. It's been really fun to watch what you've been up to these last years and good luck, man. We'll see you soon.
Juraj (01:13:14.251)
Thank you so much. And I just want to say a big thanks to you because I watch your film about Alaska and this crazy, busy hell. And one of the things which really inspired me was also this one. So thank you so much to giving this, I don't have English word for this, but let's say.
this piece of gold to the next generation because one of the important things for all of the of the mountaineers or even the adventure people is to share it not because to be kind of famous or what but to inspire the next generation because I don't know how you get into this but I was watching movies I was reading the books about the messner or all of these
even watching the Beerman of Karakorum and that's one thing which inspired me like, hey, I really want to feel the same. I want to be there, I want to see this, I want to feel that fear and scared to death and freezing and whatever. I want to have the same feeling because it inspired me. So thank you so much and I'm really, really happy that we finally stick together. I'm sorry that it took a lot of time, but yeah, I was kind of busy building a new van and stuff like this.
And we speak quite a long time and I see we didn't get a time for this India mission explanation, but 74 minutes is quite a lot. it's... Yeah, okay. I'm in, man.
Gavin McClurg (01:14:51.709)
Well, that'll be part two.
We'll leave people hanging a little bit. We'll have a second story.
Juraj (01:14:59.833)
Okay, okay. I'm in. Nice idea.
