Episode 173- Exploring the possibilities in Brazil with Leandro Estevam Montoya

Most pilots who think of flying in Brazil think of chasing records across the Sertão or racing in the land of the lost terrain in famous sites like Governador Valadares and Baixo Guandu. But Brazil is massive and the flying possibilities and potential is as big as the smiles that adorn the welcoming people. Leandro Estevam Montoya and a fast-growing group of pilots at all levels in Brazil have been exploring the countries’ vol-biv potential for the past few years and their discoveries are tantalizing. Come along for a fun ride and pack your bags for Brazil!

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Leandro’s website: https://hikeandfly.com.br

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Mentioned in this show: Rafael Saladini

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Speaker 1 (0s): Well, hello there, everybody welcome to another episode of Cloudbase. Mayhem. Summer has fully arrived, so big lights going down, or we're in Europe and here in the states. And I'm sure other parts of the world have been in the game too much with this house bill going on, but can excited to go to Chalan in a few days for us nationals. And that's about the only housekeeping I've got this week pre going into the show or some event stuff, the experience coming up, always exciting.

And then the dolomite and a bunch of others over in the house. So I have to keep our eyes on that. The X lakes challenge up in Scotland's taken place. I think Scalia places in Scotland, jockeys, neck of the woods, that's taken place this weekend. So some exciting things going down, super excited to watch the X period of this year. See what happens there. Some big names in that one and the X red rocks is now totally overbooked, and that's been pretty exciting to get all that put together.

So that's scheduled for the end of September. We've got Aaron dirt, Gotti and Paul crucial Bauer and Tom to Darla DOE tangy Reno, goon, and Patrick on Cannell, lunch of legends from the XL and other places come. And so that should be a lot of fun to have all that talent on the side of the pond, showing us how it's done. And red rocks wide open is the another us nationals event and pre PWC, which Logan and I are running.

And that is filled up real quick, right? From the beginning, she's got a few spots where keeping open for foreign pilots. So keep an eye on that one as well. That's September 10th to the 17th. It's a lot of fun to go racing and such spectacular country. So fun things happening in future. While you're getting some this talk. I did quite a few months back, still digging through some of the episodes that I recorded this winter as I was getting ready for this house building.

And I wouldn't be able to record nearly as much, which has been true, but is with Leandro Estevam Montoya. I'm saying his name correctly, but Leandro and I had a great talk about Vivi flying down in Brazil. That's not something you hear about the records all the time and all the great comp flying they've gotten Brazil. Brazil's obviously got tons of great flying, lots of amazing pilots, but I haven't heard too much about baby. So you under reached out to me and shared with me his website, which isn't Portuguese, which I don't speak.

So I didn't, I couldn't find too much there that I could understand, but it was clear that there's a whole group of folks down there getting after it, baby. So we had a really cool chat about baby flying in Brazil, the possibilities what's been tackled and what's left down there, which is tons and just shared a lot. He shared a lot of information about how they do it gear and how it goes down Brazil. And he's got a really cool website.

I can fly.com.br with tons of information. And that's what they're all about is just sharing it all, trying to get more people to come down to Brazil and have cool adventures. So that's what this talks all about. Having ventures, hope you enjoy and hope you're having a great summer. Cheers. Leandro. It's good to see your smiling face. I was, I am excited to have this talk with you because we don't do enough talks with Brazilians.

So thanks for reaching out and thanks for telling me about all the hike and fly and Vivi stuff you're doing down there. You know, everybody hears Brazil, they haven't been there and knows about the SureTel and all the records that have happened there over the decades, but we don't know too much about hike and fly. So I'm excited to have this chat with you.

Speaker 2 (4m 10s): Amazing, amazing to be part of their show. We follow you in the show. We heard a show from some other and other Brazilian pilots. They are excited to see as well, their participation. So it's a pleasure to be here and share a little bit about the hiking fly in Brazil.

Speaker 1 (4m 29s): Yeah. So tell me where, where are you and where is the hike and fly going down? And, you know, Brazil is like the U S a huge country. I know you've got tons of fantastic flying sites. You know, the world cup's going to be happening in BICE. You here in a few days and place. That looks just amazing, but I've only found the Sur towels. So where are you in and orient people to the type of flying that that happens, where you are.

Speaker 2 (4m 57s): So then basing that Tobiah near some follow around the one hour from some follow. Some probably know it's a big center in Brazil. We end the hearing. We not only be I'm here as someone talking by a team that we have a team doing these kinds of hiking, fine Brazil. It's not all about me, for sure. And a small place where there isn't that specialized at all hiking fly.

So the professor who is also training the students, the new learning paragliding guys to buy hiking clay stuff, we'll have a nice place here to hike about one hour hiking to have a takeoff zone. And so it's nice. So what's important place for hiking playing Brazil, but for sure, it's not the dudes for one word can do hike and fly near some follow in Espirito Santo, and have been there two weeks ago.

Amazing place to do hiking fly and trips to show with the scenario of hiking. Five began in Brazil around the 2014, 2012. Some guys were doing that was doing that in 2008, but in the country, the product glide is part of develop it together with the hung guiding. So everyone was flying from nature from conventional takeoffs. Those ones were enriched by the car. So we had a lot of really nice place around 2,400 meters.

We don't have amazing place from our country without being X product by paragliding in these new generation are around 2012, 2014 began to explore those, those mountains. And I was part of this team, let's say, or this group of pilots doing that. It was a really a pleasure. So once you buy its own place, but you can do it and say how that went to Canada.

It's another spot to between some follow here as we can go through this place and I could give more details.

Speaker 1 (7m 26s): So it is it when, when you mentioned those places, those are pretty well-known flying sites. Is that because the, I have been any of these places, I've only been to the stair towers really, really dry, or these places that are pretty jungley, are they, you know, is it, or can you hike up? And, you know, pretty much in the tops of every mountain has a, has a possible launch or is it really treat, and you would have to do some work to create a launch there.

Speaker 2 (7m 55s): Mainly most of the hiking, five places, our challenge is to find the takeoff place. And when you were trying to do each place, we could take off because you have to connect those ones. It's not easy to, we cannot just hide because there is a lot of, there are a lot of trees, but those places I mentioned, let's say we have really REL no places for flying Brazil in this place.

We have a trail, not the conventional road car, but we have a trail where we can hike and start the adventure. I start the hike and fly in a convention. Our traditional takeoffs, you can find really nice place. And the same in the same mountain. Let's say you have another spot to take off and connect. We just need to be aware that let's say high grass sometimes really high.

And sometimes you have really haul whole rocks in. Those are dangerous for the lines you can, but it's, but it's possible to find those places and connect this place to an inventor and beginning to talk about those very well, very knowing place for no place, because everyone knows about that, but are to explore,

Speaker 1 (9m 34s): Know what the longest kind of bivy in terms of distance and days has been,

Speaker 2 (9m 41s): Yes, his name is Lucas, and he flew from the top of his PT to, and to the bottom. He flew for six, 16 days and doing the inventory. He had two pilots supporting him on the beginning. So they began in three, but two of them had had no this challenge, they weren't there just for fun.

He had the support and the distance he got, he got the really bad conditions. So he had to walk around 430 kilometers and he flew around 200. So the total

Speaker 1 (10m 28s): Of walking,

Speaker 2 (10m 37s): One of the best hiking flying guy here in Brazil, for sure. Hiking, because you have a stronger guy for,

Speaker 1 (10m 49s): So you could, if you had better weather, could you, could you reverse those numbers? Could you fly, you know, 500 K and walk a hundred K or something?

Speaker 2 (10m 58s): Yes, for sure. For sure. More than a hundred kilometers in the region, that's a good marker for a region to region. It could reverse the numbers are hiking. Firearm adventures are, you can connect the takeoff. I think that simple for someone coming from New York, because you can try to take off from anywhere, almost anywhere here in Brazil.

So we feel you next they cough could be around 50 kilometers from you. So you'll have at least a good fight for kilometers. It's a good site for us hiking, 10 kilometers to reach the next point. If you fly all, you have to go back and start again. The next day in the same place we began the earlier

Speaker 1 (12m 11s): Forgive my geographical ignorance here, but the spirit of Santos is one of the states of Brazil.

Speaker 2 (12m 17s): Yes. It's one of the states in the Southeast near it.

Speaker 1 (12m 29s): Yep. Okay. Wow. And so when he did that whole trip, 14 days, was he, did he have a lot of land or ground support or was he trying to be pretty self-sufficient or let me ask that a different way. Are there lots of little towns and villages where you can get, you know, plenty of food and water, and so you don't have to carry that much or are you really quite remote and you have to be pretty self-sufficient

Speaker 2 (12m 55s): Apart from his wife, Michelli, he's also a pilot and they pass through a lot of this small village and they didn't, they didn't propose to be active. So they expend some nights, their challenge, their challenge was to cross all the distance, just flying and hiking, but they could stay in the small cities, et cetera. So that's what they're there they're specifically challenged, but here in Brazil, for example, we have a big trailer around 66, 600 kilometers, and we made part of it around 400 kilometers, just walk in and it's called a transplant to Kara it's near on big mountains in Brazil in between 202,400, 2,700, hi adventure.

You can connect the peaks taken off and you will be able to find these small cities, but to have to have food for at least two days, because you can learn the really jungles on, in a really wild zone. It's important to have something to it, for sure,

Speaker 1 (14m 19s): For the listeners who are hearing you and getting excited about coming to Brazil, but they haven't flown there. What are the main differences or what would you need to be aware of between doing a bivy trip? Say if you've done one in the Alps where, you know, logistics are really easy and there's, you know, there's, you can hike or not high cause there's there's lifts and cable cars, and every launch, you know, there's good access to weather and sell what's, what's different about Brazil in terms of how you prepare, you know, in other words, could I just come to south Paulo and meet you and have my kind of typical bivy kit and, and figure it out?

Or is it, is it really require quite a bit more planning?

Speaker 2 (15m 6s): Good question. I got, I answered the same for some friends who had more experience finding out than me. I have just some, a few small find over there. What I can say in what I read in your books and their books. So the main difference is on hiking here, you you're going in your kit. You can have same kids. Okay. You can have any small cans. Probably we will find some rain.

So it's important to be prepared for some rent and we don't need to have so, so warming cold. So it's warming even flying 3000 meters. So it's not so cold as it is heavy. And, but you have to pay attention in other, in other stuff, they're hiking here probably to be more or less what it's humid. Let's see, you see you hiking in the jungle.

Most of the places you have in jungle, you'll see butterflies to kind of a lot of birds, more life than hiking. I can say for sure. And the sum is next is important to be aware of it makes and try to pay attention about that. And so he got into hiking. You will be, it'll be really fun to hiking here, amazing places to see. But a lot of nature, a lot of nature animals only thinking from the takeoff side, our takeoffs are more sharp.

Sometimes the grass is high and everything is more important to

Speaker 1 (17m 5s): Like a warm Alaska

Speaker 2 (17m 17s): Regarding flying. We are conditioned are, most of the time are not so strong because we are below that this part from in Northeast Brazil and the guys beat their records, the condition is really strong and they will be strongest in our region, not so strong. And the condition is more moderate and the guys find here, sometimes they get worried about the wind. They feel on the takeoff cause it's different from now, but you don't need to care too much about that.

So most of the times it's stronger on the takeoff then in the landing zone. So that means it's good to take coffee easily, to take care of all their lines. They cost. It's good to have that wind. So it's good to have that in mind. But from the general point of view, a guy coming from Europe, you don't need so many Colts. You will find a lot of water. Most of them wanted to have a water because the jungle around it.

And it will be also the people leaving when you learn a different kind of, so they will come to you. They will compliment coming from Sweden. And then she comes to have a real friend and she landed in a barbecue place.

So she is a lot to drink beer a lot because just in breath, You'll notice for sure that the difference, the main difference you can, you can find it here. And yes, we had the guys landing parties and they participate in this kind of use to be tourist for different kind of person.

It's not so common to see paraglider lending in these different places here. We they'll have so many.

Speaker 1 (19m 36s): Tell me about, you know, the, when I first, my first couple of trips to Brazil were sailing oriented. I sailed up the coast and the pastor CFA and up to the Caribbean, I did a solo trip there a bunch of years ago. And this was before I started flying. This was, That was a long, long time ago though, but it was there. I started it. We started near Santos are in Santos, near south Paulo. And then, and it, at least in the ports, along the coast, you know, security was a pretty big issue.

Then it was, you know, a lot of it was didn't feel very safe. And you hear that a lot from some of the Brazilian pilots when I'm, when I'm traveling in other places, they always talk about the certain areas or are not, not very safe, but I've never experienced, you know, in the SureTel you didn't have to worry about that. It felt like to me at all, I, my experience was, were just like what you're describing, just incredibly friendly people in these little villages and, you know, but that SureTel, isn't really near any big population centers.

But tell me about the security of going through these areas. Is that a big deal? Do you have to worry about it or do you just have to kind of, kind of be smart,

Speaker 2 (20m 48s): Really, really fair question. And he has the, security's a problem in our country most relate to the way the biggest cities, both of course will have poor, really poor people. We have a distribution income distribution, one of the worst in the world. So you have people trying to do your way to find your own stuff. I'm telling that it's unsafe security. Yes. In this village, it's important to pay attention, but most of the guy, we don't have a high, we don't have that kind of common guys being stolen or being under danger in this.

We have to pay a lot of attention when we are in the airport or leaving the biggest cities to go to the small place. Of course, I have to agree that we pay a lot of more attention to that. Then I ask someone living in Europe and if I was doing it, I should be because it's different kind of danger. And if I was doing that alone, I probably am going to try to have someone with me, a Mayo guy, if you are a big guy, as you, et cetera, it's easier to manage this kind of risk, but we don't have mentioned people being stolen in this kind of a defender most of the time, but it's important to be around in the biggest cities.

Speaker 1 (22m 28s): Tell me about the season w when, when would be the best time to come, because I know there's good flying in Brazil year round, but what would be, what's the best time to come? And actually, what area would you focus on? You know, so for me, if I was just going to get on a plane and come down there and do some Bibby, what would be the area of the country that you would focus, you know, point me to and what time of year

Speaker 2 (22m 52s): And the amazing question I would like to say that it's my preferred place, but it's not the best place to do BB trips, but it's really challenging. And even entirely in hard costs, hard to connect that they cost the best place today. Maybe we can discover other places in the following years, and then you can do it the best time is between April and June.

Let's say in June, it's our it's winter. So the conditions will be really soft. So it will be hard to do long flights. And if you came in January or December, the conditions are really hard, but you have a lot of quicker here than in Europe, really fast. Sometimes you can get some traps. So between April, maybe March, March, may, could be March and June could be the best option.

Also in October, November. It's good as well, because we are after the week there we are coming back to the summer. So it's going to be nice as well.

Speaker 1 (24m 24s): There's so many, you know, paragliding is really big in Brazil and there's so many really good pilots. W what do you chalk that up to? Is that, is that the community pushing everyone or, you know, is it, is it just because there's, there's, there's such a great vibe in Brazil with flying, or is it the place and the conditions, you know, is it, I always think of the UK, they won the world's this year. They don't have great flying in the UK. It's, it's pretty challenging.

There's a lot of rain, but they get really good because they can fly in those conditions that are pretty average or low average, even, you know, they get really good at flying and really light conditions when there's just tiny bits of lift. And, you know, they, they create historically, they have created very well-rounded pilots, and that's something I see in Brazil that there's just a goody chalk that up to.

Speaker 2 (25m 22s): Yeah. But it's, it's, it's hard to answer that. And that tend to paraglide in 2014, so I'm still learning stuff. But a lot that we can see is CrossCountry pilots. They are really competitive pilots. And in Brazil, there is some kind of feeling that's my opinion, right? I can give some examples as Brazilian. We are really competitive in the way we want to be the best in the, in that stuff.

Not the best in the entire world. That's impossible. The best in your group. Let's say about wine in Brazil, the best, the most sold wine, 70% is the strongest to, so if you are going to fly, probably they will, they will try to classes in the product line and they will jump as soon as possible.

And they try to weight the different. So if the game is the CrossCountry and you try to do the best, the longest flight ever be able to do that and et cetera, and I had to make my fighting do so that's part of our culture to do the best, to push the best, try. It's more related competitive.

Of course it not. Everyone is like that. I'm just doing some artists, but if you're in our community for hiking, that kind of competition, we try to join the gym. I can do a flush flights to the ground. And so we try to keep the flying pleasure as the most important thing. And we can reach that in some, in some level, for example, most of the team doing hiking, playing Brazil, they used to find to be hot.

Most of them don't move to get afraid about some heartache. Cops are Hindy landing place. So we try to keep, keep it more or less safe. And we could do that. We can do good flights, 50 kilometers, 60 kilometer. We are on seed as a really amazing, maybe we can change that mindset in the near future, but to try to do this balance between risk and performance, But Brazil produce good.

Each small group has his own competitive, and these guys try to do their best. We really enjoyed to do the best. Some of can see over here. I said about the wine could apply in a lot of other stuff.

Speaker 1 (28m 29s): I didn't really know that about Brazilians, I guess that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (28m 33s): It's not fair to say that the generic stuff, but we can see that it's all right. Someone with

Speaker 1 (28m 43s): We're all, we're all odd ducks. Yeah, for sure. How, how many, just out of curiosity, do you know how many pilots there are in Brazil? And I know that, how do you define a pilot? Is that one flight a year, but do you know how many registered your organization that the,

Speaker 2 (29m 1s): What does that organization, Cinderella organization association from the pilots? I don't know them active. I can say from our local on our local club, we have a local club we'll have around 300 pilots sign in here near most near place to fly in some policy.

So we have a big number off guys because in Brazil, it's hard to give you that number because probably to be a wrong one. But I can say we are not a real big market for paragliding in the word that I can say for sure. And we have solid paragliders here. The companies are producing it south Brazil, and that is similar. It's a lot, the part in Brazil, probably the food have, if you didn't have even, even less pilots, but it's hard to it's maybe 5,000 pilots, maybe, maybe 10,000.

Like I, I cannot say,

Speaker 1 (30m 21s): Yeah, that sounds probably pretty similar to the states. And we, we do, do you feel like it's growing? Do you feel like paragliding is becoming more popular? You know, the numbers increasing or does it stay because here in the states, it's, it, it doesn't, it stays kind of the same, you know, there's lots of people learning, but then lots of people quitting. So the overall number stays pretty pretty same year after year.

Speaker 2 (30m 47s): What I can say is the hiking and taking a lot of attention because when we are in play, they call the tattoo. They, they, most, a lot of people pay a lot of it. A lot of pilots, they really enjoy to see these MoPac paraglider. They live on a glide. And so they really get to have those guys playing with or playing with those. So the hiking growing between the pilots and also, we are looking at stations from Kleinberg and people doing hiking and trackers.

They're moving to paragliding because today it's easy to fly a prime rider. Let's say, if we're not willing to do, it's not so complicated, they, they keep a maintenance around the more secure than 20 years ago. That's what I mean. It's more easy to join the sport today. Then 20 years ago, a lot more dangerous. This sport itself. It's hard to say if the number is increasing, we don't have a trustable way.

Statistics in Brazil, even the association, some guys building like this association that much. And then the number, if you are associated, not active pilots anymore.

Speaker 1 (32m 12s): Leandro, tell me about, you know, with hike and fly. When I first got into Bibi's a long time ago, we used to talk about that. It was, you know, in a, in a place like the Alps, you don't have to make it hard. In other words, you can land in the valley. You know, you don't have to top land. You don't have to do a lot of the things that are sometimes required in what I would call more of a kind of sexy Bibby where you're, you're never, you know, you only have the initial hike to the top and then you stay high and you pick a time in the day before it's really died off and you can stick it in, in some tiny little place and camp there, and basically stay high for the duration of the trip.

But that requires quite a bit more skill, because top landing is of course, more risky and, and harder to do. When you said there's a school there near where you are, and there's a kind of a big push or, you know, it's pretty welcoming to get into bivy. How, what is your, what are you guys telling the newer people? How do you, how do, how do people, how should people start flying Bibi

Speaker 2 (33m 24s): Today for the students, the hiking prior trips, they're more for three days only most of the time, three days only. And they, most of them hiking up at the afternoon or the morning they expend the day on the mountain, let's say, and they pass the nights, sorry, let's say the classical one. They hiking up at the afternoon. So they expand the nights on the mountain, in the takeoff. They, after they, to cough at the morning, most of them around 10:00 AM before the trunk conditions.

So they can learn in the valley, not more flat land and learn that over there, they pack everything. And then they go to the next mountain. They eat something. Sometimes they eat on the city. Sometimes they eat what they have and we go to the next mountain. That's the classical trip for the students. So in the, so they don't try to do landing and takeoff landing.

They don't do top landing. And if the conditions are strong, but they don't go sometime, if they don't go, but most of them are good, really good pilots, but they are starting on the bed. So they can manage that when they are doing, when we are doing the, let's say hardcore, when they are trying to explore new place. So it's a few pilots, three, sometimes four, and then that's conditioned. We set a line of possible takeoffs for the next day. Sometimes they are good.

Sometimes they're not that good. And we try to do top line. We really try. Sometimes we can do it. Sometimes we don't. And most of the time you have to hike the next day because they led the top lane. You have to have a high base. We don't have meat, meat zone lending the top. And sometimes they have to climb.

We did it really amazing. Top lane is already flushed, just fall down sometimes. And most of the time you have to hike again, did they try to do part of the hiking at the beginning of the night? So we can, let's say one third of the way we are at night so we can leave already far away from the small village.

We don't need to be, to be the train station in the city itself. Most of the time we try to find another place, grass place, come to finish the hiking the next day.

Speaker 1 (36m 31s): Are you typically going south to north? That's just what I have in my mind, because you're down in south Paulo, been hers at north to south east to west. What's the kind of typical line, or are you mostly trying to do out and backs? You know, would you start near where you are and go north a couple of days and then back south, or what's kind of the predominant.

Speaker 2 (36m 51s): We have a predominantly east wind here in Brazil and most of these mountains and also between you, you can fight with not. And we already tried to do from the south south west to Northeast. And sometimes from the Andes to here could be, we began in the mountains in these mountains and around you have, let's say C, C level.

You have a plateau. And after that, another up are these mountains. We are talking about, for example, the beginning, the middle of the mountains and reach the reach the ocean. So we are flying to east, not really for my, the high, and we can try different peaks after that jumped from the high place to fly these on.

And after that we can fight to the, to the beach is not easy, but it's amazing. It's not easy because again, because the trees just have a few taking off zones, but the one off are both amazing hiking time. Me and my friend, we did 160 kilometers flying and we walk around 10 kilometers because we were able to do a top top landing, but two guys from the group that they did in two days.

So they flew around 60 in the first day. And then the second day almost 90. And they could reach the ocean, have some fish and normal. Most of the time clouds low called because the ocean is 800 meters below them. The let's say the terrain. So we'll have the calls are below you. So you reach out sometimes 700 meters are both those clouds and you have to go down and for experienced pilots.

It's not that hard. It's hard to meet the experience, but it's, it shouldn't be. I mean, but that kind of venture in Brazil, don't try to have a website showing the roots, showing these eSports begin,

Speaker 1 (39m 31s): Your website has all this kind of information. So listeners could get on there and then kind of do some study beforehand before coming.

Speaker 2 (39m 40s): Yes, but it's always, the new stuff is always a little bit outdated because I'm not able to update it. But yes, there is a lot of information over there, their books, et cetera, help on this. We have just a few field trackers over there. A lot of merch should be done to, to feel that it's more like collaboration from other pilots who have pilots in south doing hiking fly in this kind of venture in south. You know, we said, and some of them are sending the trucks to the website and we try to keep that.

But at some day we expect to have a lot of tracks, the roots of it, they're easy to follow and as still need to put it in English as well. That's our fault.

Speaker 1 (40m 26s): What, what apps are you using for mapping and topography and roads and that kind of thing. And then what briefly lay out your, your kind of typical instrument package? Are you just playing with a phone and you're an F in a fly sky high, or, I mean, sorry, in an app, like fly sky and then, you know, a small Varios that kind of it,

Speaker 2 (40m 48s): We try to keep each one has their own burial meters. Some of them have maps out there. Know others don't have maps, but it's easy to use Google maps as well. We have been using set maps and some guys have this apps in the mobile phone for, and the lines they have that, but for someone coming new, new, they could take an adventure to those said, or Google

Speaker 1 (41m 34s): Is that is the self coverage pretty good. Are you guys able to, you know, create a telegram group or something to stay in touch with one another? Or are you mostly relying on inReach?

Speaker 2 (41m 43s): Oh, we were relying on WhatsApp groups. Okay. Well, we contact WhatsApp groups. The guys are really collaborative and that way everyone loves to share their rules, et cetera. We don't compete to do the best one. Instead, most of the time when someone starts at some kind of adventure, the others provide a lot of sports and provide tips regarding we didn't spoke about that landing zones.

We don't have those kinds of cables coming down from the mountain to the valley, those ones who took the other guys in there, we don't have it this kind off, but do we have the small cables in the landing zones near their routes and their streets? So we'd have 2010 meters, small cable. We already have some accidents on that in the valleys. So they shared this kind of attention on these are you can land over there, Trey, or that you can use to hike up again.

So that mountain, if you learn in the north, in the north face, where are the trails? It's, it's, it's important to, if you're coming to good, so have contact with someone who will be happy to, to, to support. So have to give a lot of people, but the, between the guys here, it's a collaborative,

Speaker 1 (43m 17s): I don't know if you're familiar with this, but there was a, and I wish it has a cool name. I forget the name of this, but for years, and I don't know if they're still doing it, but for years there was a hang-gliding they would, you know, cross big chunks of Brazil with hang gliders. And so they, it was kind of a bivy, but with hang gladder, so obviously they weren't carrying their stuff up to launch. It was, you know, supported by trucks or cars, but they would cover a lot of ground. It was, it went on for a long time. Are they still doing that?

Speaker 2 (43m 49s): Yeah, there are some like that. We have a big advantage. I don't remember the name right now, but it was something like crossing the third town, crossing the wild zones, and there are guys hang glider, promoter, no, really monitor. And they were covering car support in the end. It was really amazing.

And with a lot of sponsorship and brands, and I will remember the name until the end

Speaker 1 (44m 27s): That's up in the Northeast. That's kind of okay. Okay. So totally

Speaker 2 (44m 33s): A really different, we, we don't have this kind of, most of the vendors are been doing by paragliding because the mountains are hard to reach. Most of these monsters are high to eat. They don't have trails over there. They don't have a road over there.

Speaker 1 (44m 56s): Okay. Okay. What, what do you think the, what do you think the most aggressive objective could be? Where could you start and where could you end potentially, you know, is there, is there a string of mountains? I should have looked closer at the maps before we got on the phone here, but is there a, is there a string, like a chain of mountains, you know, the Alaska range or the Rockies, or, you know, that you could start at one tip and get to the other tip, you know, a thousand kilometers away or something.

Speaker 2 (45m 27s): Yes. One of those challenges is to open because it was done partially only by a colleague Fabio for HEDA. He did part of this, but we just, the Brazilian trails community, they just launched it. They just started the biggest, one of the biggest areas in Brazil. So you will begin, you will begin here near 200 kilometers from San Paulo has a 900 kilometers total trail in need to pass through the biggest peaks.

Some of the biggest peaks in Brazil, because you have better than minute, 2,700 meters in the middle walks this trail. And we had several possible takeoff points. I mean, this trail and need to finish beyond, and you pass through the, one of the biggest or most important things in Brazil, because we'll have the 10 highest peaks in Brazil.

Nine of them are in this chain and you can try to connect and no one did this fully yet, but it's still a challenge. I don't remember the exact five, 500 kilometers, but you could not complete the entire it's only because the conditions change. So rain. So it was hard.

That's the one that one of the big, big, big challenge, but to have the other ones in the speed of the sun, etc, that's always nice.

Speaker 1 (47m 17s): Is that not been done? Because it's just really hard and to get the right conditions to pull it off, you know, there's just too much jungle too much. Or, or is it just because not enough people have tried

Speaker 2 (47m 30s): Both of them, both of them, it's not easy. Even for a really high experience. It could be challenging because the taking off are just a few and you have to connect them. But the conditions you have to be here for the conditions, you can have a one week full week of good weather. It doesn't happen every month. So you have some big here and try and have some lucky to, to accomplish. I think both of them it's worth for sure.

We will be trying that for our entire lives. We will be welcome.

Speaker 1 (48m 19s): Yeah, no, it's just, I'm so glad you reached out because I it's, it just hasn't been something at all on my radar. You know, obviously I've known that the flying in Brazil is incredible since I got into this sport. Cause there's, like I said, there's so many great Brazilian pilots and you just, you hear about it all the time and it's very reliable to have comps there. And, and then of course the, the, the famousness of, of the SureTel, but I hadn't thought about bivy that much there. And I don't know why it's it's I applaud you, you and your group and all your colleagues to that.

You said you're chasing it and making it happen. And thanks for sharing your story with us. I really appreciate it. And hope next time I come down there, I'm coming down with my baby kit.

Speaker 2 (49m 6s): No, please. You in front of the guys from outside most of the time, and we are doing just with Brazilians who have now the visits, but it's not over here, but he didn't come join us in this kind of adventure, but to be good, to have opinion from guys on that side. So improve our own levels to learn a lot with you guys. And we, of course it would be able to share something that we know from here, the region, et cetera,

Speaker 1 (49m 38s): Leandro, we've talked quite a bit about bivy, but you, you sent me an email about the, some kind of cool, the highest peak in Brazil that tell me about that.

Speaker 2 (49m 49s): Oh, amazing. Because the highest peak in Brazil in the jungle or the Amazon jungle, really north Brazil, almost 2000 kilometers from Manaus, that is the biggest center in the north, on the counter. The peak has almost 3000 meters. And to reach there, you have to press the indigenous guy.

So they are the guides. You cannot reach that place along the, or you can be killed by them by sure, because they control the zone, but they are really friendly. If you come with them first, they are developing. It's important to say that they are developing an echo program. So following here, anyone will be able to reach this peak because they will have a company meeting guys over there. But to reach this peak, you have to go one day flying one day with a car or another day in the shape of a small ship, those fishing ships and four days walking in the jungle In these guys, they were rich in sixties.

So they are ready to eat. They don't speak even Portuguese very well. So you still have a indigenous experience. They cook for you. They're looking for animals in the jungle to hunt them. And you'll move from the jungle to a plateau at 2000 meters. So we changed a lot of the climate pass from the really humid jungle.

So a place more dry and colder. And after that, you do a final step climbing to the peak around 2,993. And no one has applied for float flew from, from there until 2019, sorry for my English. And I had the opportunity to take off from there and do a fly over the jungle because they will have to fight to east.

So you just around three, 3000 meters, let's say difference from takeoff, from the jungle

Speaker 1 (52m 24s): 10,000 feet,

Speaker 2 (52m 27s): But you don't go to the guy because there is no place to land in the jungle, the mountain behind it in the plateau, because you have a plateau behind the jungle and you'll feel the exposure. You cannot do mistakes. They learn, they take off. It's not that it's short, but it's enough.

And so one guy explained 10 days over there. I have to thank God for this kind of it doesn't matter, but I have to thank God because one guy had spent 10 days in the peak trying to find 2010 and he had no chance it's covered by cover by rain or clouds. It's impossible to take off because, and I bless, and let's say climate yesterday afternoon, I would spend one night in a rain really strong brain.

The afternoon, everything was clear and perfect. So it

Speaker 1 (53m 44s): Was

Speaker 2 (53m 48s): Around 7:00 AM and seven because I have no balls to that sort of amazing. So when I landed behind the guys speaking, speaking in their language, in the radio, the radio, that guy, because he's in the middle.

So the guys came and helped me to really get back to that. We need to go with a tending gliding to bring some Yanomamis to their own village. It's impossible to fly from their village and needs could be a really real, amazing thing to do.

Speaker 1 (54m 44s): Oh man, you blow their mind. That would be so awesome. I had a really special experience decades ago in the Amazon. I've been through a lot of these places. You're talking about them analysis and stuff, but the, the, I spent a few days in the jungle with a local who had grown up in the jungle. He wasn't Yanomami, but I don't remember what tribe. It's amazing to see the jungle through their eyes. Because when you, when you, when you, for those who haven't been in the, in the Amazon and the general, you, you hear everything that the sounds day and night are just, it's a cacophony of beautiful sound.

It's just amazing, right? But you don't see any of this stuff, you know, to see the sauce and the monkeys and the lizards and the snakes and everything. You have to have lived in the jungle or be with a guide who can go watch this. And then they make, they make all these sounds and they know how to talk to all the animals in the forest. And it's really a very special experience to, to, to be in the Amazon with someone who's grown up there because it's, it's their, it's their place. They understand it.

They know what they're looking at because we just see this beautiful canopy. And it's, it's hard to, at least for me, it was, I remember the, you know, you don't, you don't see any of that stuff until you can see it through their eyes and they can point it all out.

Speaker 2 (56m 5s): For me, it's impossible to enjoy the jungle. We look in there, see a lot of trees, et cetera. And then they named three. These were not there. They don't have it, this word, they have the name of the generic one doesn't make much sense for them to the same experience we are born in the cities.

We are enabled to really deal with that experience in gardening. This take off from the highest peak here in Brazil was, was amazing, but it was the experience with the guys in the jumbo.

Speaker 1 (56m 56s): I'm sure. And I'm sure that was really special Leandro. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. And happy flights, safe landings, and, and keep having fun. If you find the Cloudbase Mayhem valuable, you can support it in a lot of different ways. You can give us a rating on iTunes or Stitcher, or however you get your podcasts that goes a long ways and help spread the word. You can blog about it on your own website or share it on social media. You can talk about it on the way up to launch with your pilot friends. I know a lot of interesting conversations have happened that way.

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