Have you ever imagined a woman soaring through the skies at 6,000+ meters, shattering the proverbial glass ceiling in a country where female pilots are a rare sight? Today, we delve into the remarkable story of Fatemeh Eftekhari, Iran’s first female pilot and a trailblazer for women in aviation and extreme sports. Her journey is not just about flying; it’s about defying societal norms, pushing boundaries, and inspiring a new generation of women to chase their dreams no matter the obstacles. In a time of enormous geopolitical tensions and societal restrictions, Fatemeh’s story offers a breath of fresh air—an inspiring example of resilience, courage, and relentless pursuit of passion. Whether you’re an aspiring pilot, a supporter of women’s rights, or simply love an empowering story, her journey will change the way you see the sky, likely change the way you see Iran, and what someone with guts and grit can achieve in the sky as well as on the ground.
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Listen to the Podcast
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Fatemeh’s background and how she became the first female pilot in Iran
Cultural and societal barriers faced by women in Iran pursuing aviation
The development of women’s participation in paragliding and cross-country flying
How she founded the Women’s Flight Society and the impact on Iranian women pilots
Differences between flying in Iran versus Europe, including airspace and safety
The role of Iranian hospitality and resilience amidst ongoing conflicts and war
Misconceptions about Iran and the true diversity of its landscapes and people
The importance of passion and purpose in flying, and her vision for the future
Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction and guest’s background in Iranian aviation 02:15 – Societal constraints and her journey into becoming a pilot 04:50 – How she broke societal and gender barriers in Iran 08:10 – The establishment and evolution of women’s participation in paragliding in Iran 12:00 – Challenges of being the only woman competing internationally from Iran 16:00 – Breaking the “imaginary roof” for women and inspiring others 20:00 – The current state of women pilots in Iran and globally 24:30 – Flying in Iran’s airspace and safety considerations amidst restrictions 28:00 – Comparing flying experiences in Iran and Europe 32:00 – Misconceptions about Iran and its natural diversity 36:00 – Living through conflict and the resilience of Iranian society 40:00 – The impact of war on daily life and flying ambitions 44:00 – Middle East geopolitics, perceptions, and Iran’s cultural closeness to the US 48:00 – Advice for young women wanting to fly and pursue aviation dreams 52:00 – Fatemeh’s future goals and passion for flying 54:00 – Closing remarks and inspirational message
Fatima, thank you for sticking with it. The last time we tried this, you were still in Iran, and that makes it well, we shouldn't say too much there. That makes it a little bit trickier. But now you're in Italy at the SRS. Today was was day one and
I have been told by so many people that I have to get you on the show. So I've been following you for a while on Instagram and you just what an amazing life. They call you this is a very long intro here, but they call you the Queen of the Queen of Iran skies. I understand you're the first female pilot in Iran and the first who has
qualified for things like the World Cup and you're over there racing in the SRS, you're starting to get red there on me. I start to blush a little bit, but th let's let's start that for so first of all, just welcome, but let's start there. There's a lot of stuff I want to ask you. I mean it's a very interesting time to be talking to a pilot in Iran, but let's start there. How did you become the queen of Iran skies? How did you become
Fatemeh (01:06.338)
Yeah.
gavin (01:26.6)
A pilot in Iran is that's you know, there are more constraints on on females in Iran than in other places sometimes. I want it I want you to tell me about that. But how did this how did you get into it and and how did you become a pilot and what is what did that journey look like for you?
Fatemeh (01:45.705)
I yeah. First of all, hi and thanks for having me here. And yeah, I I if I would talk about myself myself I I was I grew up in Isvahan. It's one of the biggest cities in Iran and I can say growing up in this city can be really different, depend on your family, and I was lucky.
So in my family, my courage was admired and I started to learn a lot of skills and activity since I was very young because yeah I I I was just in the society and family that all these things that I like to do like swimming, roll blading, like horse riding,
Even b bicycle and motorcycles were something that my dad and my mom were supporting me to do. And all of these activities give me courage. And I mean, as a little girl, I I had the courage to and I I I felt like I can do the special things, you know, and I think it was the beginning of getting to this guy's because I was 18 years old and I just saw an advertising about
Paragliding, which I didn't have any idea what it should be. Just online. I found it and I called and I asked if it's possible to go for women. I mean, women also can go for this course. And the guy said yes. And I just in in the next day I was there with my dad and my brother who was who is a four year younger than me, and we registered. So yeah, I like to fly.
I had no idea what is a power collider, I had no idea how it should be, but I wanted to just be in the sky because I used to dream that I'm flying since I was five years old, maybe. And I was already professionally swimming or horse riding or bicycling or rollerblading and all of this stuff. So yeah, and it just started like that. But to be honest, being the best and the first
Fatemeh (04:09.026)
For women in something like this is easy in Iran. And that's why I become the first and the best because it was not like a lot of women doing things or I can say it at time I I I could remember girls was starting paragliding but it was always like a limits for them. And I was the girl who I was growing up
with the idea that I I have no nothing can stop me and I and being a girl doesn't make me to be less to to have less ability in comparison to the boys. So sorry for my English which is not that good but yeah I try to
gavin (04:51.092)
Hmm.
gavin (04:54.43)
Is that your English is great. Your your English is great. I I'm keep going with this, but I I'd love to just ask are is that really different for you compared to your friends growing up and other women in Iran? Is it were you were you quite unusual or is this normal that you know, f a as an outsider all we hear is the stuff on the news, right? And the only the only the only pilot that w I I had
Fatemeh (05:15.534)
Mm no.
Fatemeh (05:19.501)
Yeah.
gavin (05:23.136)
Sohail on the on the podcast years ago and I I see him all the time around the world. But y you know, other than my good friend Nick who went over and flew there, y there's there's not we don't have that much information other than we know that the flying is epic. You've you know, four hundred K flights are regular and your five thousand meter base, which is where I l where I live, it's you know, the flying is big and strong and really cool there. We know that, but
Fatemeh (05:45.454)
Yeah.
gavin (05:49.108)
W were you quite unusual? Was that very different than your peers?
Fatemeh (05:52.771)
Yeah. no, I was not that much different. the thing is that living in Iran is really you have to understand how the society is working, you know. I I will I will tell you some some samples. For example, mm like sixty percent of seats in university belongs to women since I was like since thirty years ago. So it means that women are educated.
High educated and it's really also admired for women to continue to go to school and do business. So they owning business, they are in the family, they they they have their personality, they have independency, but it also depends on your family and your I mean people who are around you because the problem is that the
Laws in the country are is not supporting women or children like it should be. So the development comes from inside the families and and inside the people's home. So I mean when when you see the societies, it should be like the the government and laws should be ahead of women. But in our country, women are ahead society is ahead.
So if you are in a bad relationship, for example, you will lose a lot because it is not good support according to law for women. But if you look at normal people's lives, I mean in the families, women have their personality, they they they they they they own things, they are encouraged to work, to educate, to be educated, but
then it also depends then then I mean if you are in lower level of the community, if you are in bad I mean environments that then it affects you and you might lose a lot. So this is basically what I can explain. But it's also not that much common for women to be really I I mean it you it not when I'm 17 years ago 20 years ago when I started paragoliding
Fatemeh (08:21.51)
for women it's it was always better to be high educated and be independence at work but not be really in sport activities. And but my mom was really supporting me, my mom teached me to swim when I was four years old, and we were swimming in the rivers or lakes and a at that day we also used to cover more, you know. I we I I I I used to swim with a full
dress and my mom also. So she was kind of over over of I mean sh she's a kind of a special woman. She is brave and she is not follow all the routines. So so she decides what is right, what is wrong and push forward and my dad also was supporting. So I can remember I was maybe ten years old and my dad told me your mom is the bravest
person I've ever known, I've ever seen, and if you could be like half of her brave, then you would be happy in your life. So it it was like my mom and my dad also was a little bit different. that's why I was really into my activities like all of the sports and and all of these things. But totally new society, women are having their own normal lives.
And the thing is that if you just go I mean I I travel around the world and here in Europe also, paragoliding or being really active in this kind of sport also here is not that much common for women. And I mean I am distributor of Skywalk. I was I was in a Skyvak distributor meeting two years ago. It was dealers all around the world sitting there and I was the only girl from Iran, so
gavin (10:04.981)
Yeah, everywhere. Sure.
Fatemeh (10:17.036)
This is this is yeah, this is like this, e everywhere, not just in Iran, by the way.
gavin (10:17.036)
Really?
gavin (10:24.223)
Well, I I can tell already that you're quite humble, but you're also you know, you're you're pretty I mean, according to my research, and tell me if I'm wrong, but you're you're a heck of a pioneer for what you have accomplished there. you're a dealer, you set up the Women's Flight Society. Y for years, I believe, you were the only woman competing internationally in paragliding from Iran. the only one competing in PwC. I I'd love to just hear
what that was like, especially when you traveled. Was it was it was it lonely? Was it difficult? I mean, even you know, it it is a very male dominant sport. And w we've done a lot of podcasts over the years about just how you can support female pilots versus they don't w just get out of their way. That I mean, you know what I mean? We we don't need to
They don't need anything, they're just as good. They're they're better. so y but I I'd like to just hear w what was hard about that? What was it lonely? Was it you know, it it's tough sometimes being a pioneer.
Fatemeh (11:35.788)
Yeah. I can remember I started and I was after two years I was flying ICSI and I flew my first one hundred kilometer. I participated in a a cross country course that was the first cross country course in Iran that was Mohammed my now he is also we are in a team. He is my partner in our team and group. So now we are
working together but at that time he was the instructor so I participated the course and and next season I flew 100k and I was I was super excited about all of these things and then I understood after like one year okay all of my friends are boys and I tried to I tried to be part of the team so I tried to be accepted by the by the boys because it was just me and all of them and
Then I started to think, okay, what what is wrong? Why why I cannot see other girls flying in this level? I mean, I I told you, they start, but they never take it serious and they ne they never flew, for example, cross country. So it was a hard time for me. It was a hard time because I I felt like why? And I I I have this kind of feminist way of thinking.
I always wanted to say women can do. So I I didn't like that boys just underestimate women's ability and I wanted to prove that women can do. So I can remember that period of time, maybe takes me three to four years that I was under pressure to to show that women can fly X and it's not just I mean mm man things to do. And
So I pushed, I really tried to start this kind of NGO that you mentioned. I gather girls together, try to convince them to participate at the courses, and it was like and you you asked what was what was difficult. So the difficult part was that I couldn't convince them that they can do that. So it takes me ages to to to
Fatemeh (14:00.015)
Prove that you I mean I I I I was an experienced pilot already, I could see them that they can fly they can tell Maling good. But when we started to talk about okay, let's go some serious exceed, they always said no, this is not a girl thing to do. Or my instructor told me this is not a girl thing to do. It's too dangerous, it's too difficult. And and it the the the the difficult part was just make them believe that they can do that.
gavin (14:16.865)
Huh.
gavin (14:21.164)
Huh.
Fatemeh (14:29.698)
And I I can remember I I told a girl that okay, I'm I'm flying I now it's like maybe four or five years and I'm flying one hundred K, one hundred fifty, one hundred seventy, less than two two hundred that days. And she told me my instructor told me, you are not a real girl.
gavin (14:52.064)
What?
Fatemeh (14:53.182)
So so yeah, yeah, just you just can you believe it? And I'm not that much boy style of I mean I I'm girly. And I was I was just shocked and you know? So when people don't want to accept that they can do something, they can go this far. So they i I mean I I was a sample there for years and I told them that you can do this.
as I can do. And then they said, you are not so the the mean be me being a girl was questioned now. And it was it was interesting and it was also something that I mean changed my view. I understood we women have a imaginary roof on top of our head. So we've been told to follow our dreams.
gavin (15:47.969)
Yeah.
Fatemeh (15:51.907)
But we have to first start to be able to dream big. Big enough to pass this imaginary roof on top of all women's head. And then as soon as someone just go, I mean pass it, then it would be easy. It it then it's it's open. So I told you I started to kind of convince some good pilots that you can come to the courses, cross country courses, and it took me some years, but
I can clearly remember the day that we f I flew with the in the course with another girl with and she was flying one hundred kilometer and I was crying in the air because I felt like my dream coming true. Now I prove everyone that this is something that girls can do. And I was flying with the second girl and third girl and fourth girl. And now I mean after like fifteen years, eighteen years, I I I even don't know the
gavin (16:34.552)
Mm.
Fatemeh (16:46.784)
numbers but I have no idea how many girls in Iran are flying across countries. And even the best record is not mine. So this is yeah. So this is this is awesome.
gavin (16:54.388)
Wow. That's awesome. So and that that was that that all came that all came out of this is that what it's called? The Women's Flight Society? That all came out of that effort?
Fatemeh (17:05.942)
N for sure not not all of them cut come out of that effort, but I mean fifteen years ago I started this, eighteen years ago maybe, and I pushed for it and yeah, the first and second and third and fourth girl who flew 100k, I was flying with them. It was a course that I was one of the instructors. And then, you know, it was just this imaginary roof was just broken.
So now women could think bigger, and then every instructor all around the country can can coach their students in the sky and not tell them you are not you are a girl, you cannot participate the course. So it changed, and I was so proud that I could do that. And I can remember that days, it was my biggest sadness, and then it became my biggest biggest hap happiness. So my dream came true, and then
But I want to tell you something. I used to think that this is because I'm in Iran. And then I started to travel all around the world and I saw this imaginary roof on top of all women's heads all around the world. It's more or less like that. But we prefer to stay in under this comfort zone because it's easier, it's safer. If something is not for you, then you have an excuse to not really push for it. And I understood.
gavin (18:13.869)
Relax.
Fatemeh (18:29.763)
This is happening not just in Paragol I think, it's happening in everywhere, you know. I mean even in our I mean my family business, I can see that women who work it's like a production environment. So women are working better, but it's more difficult to convince them to be in the higher levels, to be in the managing levels. Because it's need it needs more responsibility.
gavin (18:54.626)
That glass ceiling.
Fatemeh (18:59.853)
And it's safer and easier for them to just stay in a lower level and they are happy with the lower income, with lower I mean, so this is this is what
I don't like about being a woman. And I think I mean most of my life I was pushing to just fighting against this. And I think it's because because maybe my personality, my grandmother is like me. So she was like in his she she's 90 years old and she she have two university degrees and she was driving since like two years ago. And she's a special woman. And I think it's also
it's because my mom was a special p had a spe a special personality that I always couldn't accept just this is not for you because you are a woman. So this is not acceptable for me. And this was my story and the difficult part of I mean flying was all of these things for me.
gavin (20:00.79)
When you you've traveled a ton, you know, you're in Italy right now at the SRS. How what have you seen? How how would you compare if you're a an Italian female getting into the sport or a Czech female getting into the sport or anywhere in the Alps versus Iran or in the States? I don't know if you've met you've flown over here too, but what's what's different? Is it I mean, is it is it it sounds like societally it's pretty accepted for women to
Go to university, start businesses, be successful. What about with flying? Is it is there more of a no you can't do this than other places?
Fatemeh (20:41.705)
at the moment no. It's really like here, or even if you go to a Iranian flying site, you would see I mean in comparison to the whole number, you can see more women on the on the flying sites in Iran at the moment. So girls yeah, yeah. And no no it's not no, it's not because of me for sure. No no no, because you know when I also started, I can remember in our
gavin (20:59.778)
This is all because of you. That is awesome. I know, you're not gonna take credit, but you led the way.
Fatemeh (21:11.119)
course we were fifteen and maybe six was six girls in the course. So girls yeah, girls used to start at that time too. But it was just a limit. So they were they were the weakest. They were the less they they were less capable, I mean, according to instructors. But mm here in Basano where I am, I mean, this is kind of the best
gavin (21:17.041)
well.
Fatemeh (21:40.42)
highlo women pilots ever now in this competition. So not talking about this competition, but I've been traveling to normal flying sites and I'm washing because it's something that I'm always thinking that how these things are different. For sure you can see a lot of fly girls in Iranian flying sites and it's equal or even higher number in Iran. And now
As I told you, girls are flying also very good and now the idea th that that old fashioned idea for the flying and paragliding for women is completely changed at the moment in the country. And my story is going back to twenty years ago when I started and eighty or seventy years ago when I was pushing for Xy backyard at home.
gavin (22:32.268)
Let's talk about the actual that's amazing and also super inspiring. but l let's talk about the actual flying. You I had Sohail on years ago after he had just done some huge flight. I can't remember if it w that was the record at the time, but you know, six thousand meter bases, four hundred K flights. He was talking about that he sometimes to do these downwinders, he'll take an airplane to the other side of the country and then and then fly with the jet stream back and fly back to Tehran.
Fatemeh (22:51.268)
Yeah.
Fatemeh (22:57.783)
Ha ha
Fatemeh (23:01.721)
Yeah.
gavin (23:02.612)
So the but I also know from Nick that there's some very strict air spaces. I imagine right now, I can't imagine flying is very safe with the war going on, and we'll get to the war and and all that here in a little bit, but I I'd love to just hear about what happens when you're flying in Iran with all this stuff you were just talking about, the constraints, the
the difficulties, the airspace, the military. I remember there, you know, Nick was talking about there are places where you just absolutely cannot land. does when you leave when your feet leave the ground, do all these restrictions evaporate and you're just I mean, it's the it's the ultimate freedom, right? That's what we're all chasing is freedom to fly. Ha talk about that just in that context with flying in Iran.
Fatemeh (23:54.345)
Yeah. to be honest, you are like a hundred percent free in Iran in comparison to Europe. because I mean for example Switzerland is just unbelievable. It's aerospace lower amount. So I I never can I I never can imagine myself flying in Switzerland because I have no idea and I super so Iran is big and light.
gavin (24:09.286)
my god.
Fatemeh (24:22.476)
We have some restricted area which is kind of some certain numbers that are obvious, you know them, you shouldn't go flying toward them. And yeah, the yeah, it is just easy. And and you know mm, I mean the story of we started big cross country and my my experience of six thousand eight hundred meter altitude.
gavin (24:34.521)
So it's easy. You just you know where they are in advance. Okay.
Fatemeh (24:48.126)
Those days we didn't even have this restricted area on our GPS. We just go fly. And Sohein himself had landed in in in some next to one of the nuclear zooms. And yeah, they they they asked asking you. So it is the lifting that they can do. So they just keep you and ask you, and as soon as they understand you are just a crazy pilot, you are free to go. But it's it's about Iranians, so.
I highly recommend you to not to do so if you are not Iranian because it might cause a lot of problems. But for us, no. I think Iran is a big country and I don't find it difficult to do cross country organizing competitions or flying. But at the moment we are in war, so no one is flying. I I doubt even birds can fly at the moment without getting shot. But normally, I mean since I started
I I just never care about where I shouldn't go. I just knew that okay, east to Isfahan, just don't pass 100k. Or if you fly that long way that we normally do our records from Kerman Shah to to our Tehran site, I know that next to Hamedan is a nuclear is is a I mean military base, so just go this direction.
And I I never got in really big troubles. Yeah, I I landed several times and police came and even they took me to ask some questions, but because I was close to some military area landing. But for Iranian I don't see it like really a trauma or or a big problem flying XC. Yeah. It's like that.
gavin (26:39.939)
When when you when you travel, I know you've competed in Kazakhstan and Turkey and right now you're in Italy. When you leave Iran to to fly, to travel, to participate in the things that you love to do, which is not only paragliding, I I've followed you on Instagram, you do all kinds of stuff. easier, harder, a relief? Is it big breath of fresh air because you're just traveling or
Yeah, we d talk about that.
Fatemeh (27:13.677)
Yeah, it it's really different. for example, when you come to when I come to European country for flying or competitions, you can see lots of things here is easier because everything already has been settled and the nature in here is designed for this sport. Our nature is full of dust, so
We are fighting hard for for being able to reach I mean for preparing a takeoff, we have to spend a lot of money to just make it clean. But here is just grass. So you can see in this European country lots of things is easier or lots of the things is more organized. But when you go to Iran, I mean and European my European friends who come to Iran like
lots of them. The fur I mean a after two weeks traveling with me and flying, I like this comment that they told me, wow, you are really, really free. And this is you know, we can do whatever we want. We can park everywhere, we can camp everywhere, we can take off everywhere, we can nothing is like stopping. You can land everywhere and everyone is welcoming. So you land.
gavin (28:23.897)
Mm.
Fatemeh (28:39.127)
in every land and people come with tea and it's welcoming. But here in Europe people are it's a lot of things to do or not to do. To to it's a lot of things that you have to pay for it. For and you know we a lot of things is cheaper, easier and faster in my country. But yeah you have to just I mean be
For sure for for a foreigner this is different. But also as a foreigner, if you are in touch with a local, then life is like a hundred percent much more easier for you because you know the first Iranian culture is hospitality and if you are a guest then you are just welcome and everything is like okay and easy for you. But yeah, if if I want to compare mm for sure mm like Kazakhstan or Nepal or East Asia.
gavin (29:25.923)
Taken care of. Wow.
Fatemeh (29:35.018)
I don't see any advantages in comparison to my country. In European country, you can see the advantage is that this is lots of things already ready and lots of natural things is like making it easy to handle stuff. but it's also much more expensive and sometimes like not easy to handle here.
gavin (30:04.841)
Mm. What what do you think the again with all the travel that you do, what do you think the biggest mixed misconceptions are of foreign pilots, whether that be American or European or in other places about your country? Wha what what what do we all have wrong?
Fatemeh (30:22.158)
Yeah.
Fatemeh (30:26.255)
I I really believe that people in the world have no idea about my country. And yeah, it's it sometimes surprised me, it sometimes even make me sad. But I also I I wrote some sentences that I like to read for you maybe because I don't want to miss it.
gavin (30:33.752)
Yeah.
gavin (30:50.841)
Yeah.
Fatemeh (30:51.639)
About about my country. And then then I I maybe and after that I can answer also your qua question. So you know Iran is a large country in the Middle East and it's the seventeenth largest country in the world. So we also have a very amazing natural diversity that makes it almost a paradise for outdoor activities. We have high mountains, we have forests, snow, sea, lakes.
And it's a country of four seasons. So and we also have peaks above four thousand meters, we have long mountain range, we had cloud base as high as seven thousand meters altitude that you already mentioned. And we have green fields, we have deserts with sand dunes, beautiful coastlines, and thick forests. So this is this is something that I'm pretty sure most of the people don't know. So when I talk about Iran.
Most of my foreigner peop friends just assume it's a desert with some palm tree. And and they chose me. So I mean this diversity of nature they have no idea. But I want to tell you something else. the reality I mean the the the things that defines Iran for me is not landscapes, it's about people. Iranian
gavin (31:58.329)
Yeah.
Fatemeh (32:18.252)
Iranian are special people, I think, because they have an incredible ability to survive, to continue, and find a reason to celebrate life. You know, we all always find a reason to to be happy, to dance, to gather together, to cook, share food, and partying around. And I mean it is something that I also find it special while I was tra traveling. Especially in European country, you would
This is something like this is really rare. So if you ever travel to Iran, the first thing that captures you will probably not be the historical monuments or the nature, it will be the hospitality hospitality of the people. And I mean Iranian culture is deeply based on welcoming guests. And I mean people always say, and most of my friends told me when they were leaving that you
You arrive in this country as a visitor and you are living as a friend. And it's so true. And that's why most of my European friends, very close friends, are the ones that they were traveling to be Iran, and I met them back there in Iran. So mm, when I'm coming here, they are just super open and friendly and hospitable for me because
I think this is something that they learn and they like to to do or behave like that.
gavin (33:46.691)
Mm. Mm. That's lovely. I'm glad you wrote that out. okay, let's go to the current situation a bit. And I know, you know, there was quite a bit of civil stuff going on before all of this happened. So things have been very active in your country for a while for in this recent thing for terrible reasons, but so it's it's it's very turbulent right now, and I'm just gonna read read my own question.
for someone whose life is built around freedom, yours, literally physical freedom in the sky, what what does it mean to be a pilot, to be a citizen of Iran right now? You know, when we tried to connect a couple weeks ago while you were in Iran, it was you said, Yeah, I'm going kitesurfing and I thought, Wow, that's bizarre. How do you go kite surfing when the war is going on? So I what paint us a picture. What what does this war
Fatemeh (34:40.708)
Yeah.
gavin (34:45.752)
look like i it looks like there might as of right now that it looks like there might be a chance it it ending the war, at least stopping it for some time, but what has it been like to live there recently? Again, I'd love f for you to hit on misconcep misconceptions. What what do the people think of the war, about losing the Supreme Leader, about the all of it.
And you're in Italy, I think you can talk freely, but you know, if if if you can't fully I understand. But I'd I'd love to just hear from an insider what it what's it like living in our
Fatemeh (35:24.48)
Yeah, the thing is that for most of people out of Iran they because Iran is in headlines for years for nuclear, for war and sentences like this, but since I was born born, that is like th thirty-seven years ago, there was no war in Iran. And when we when the war started
It was unbelievable, it was thrill and really scary for all of us. So we haven't been in any war before, you know, because because I know that people might imagine that it's that that part of the war in the Middle East is always war. But Iran was like always a peaceful country for me, and now the war started. So
gavin (36:05.57)
In your life, no.
Fatemeh (36:19.47)
yeah, the it it started with some attacks to certain military areas and specific targets. In Tehran for sure it was super scary. The sound of explosion every night. So this this fighter jets every night, so you can watch them and then you can see the explosion in like some mm some around you. In Tehran this was super scary.
And many people left their houses, their the city. They go to their relatives to safer places or small smallest towns. In my city, Ismaan, that situation was a bit calmer. the neighborhoods close the military bases was still really scary. we knew that they are not targeting houses or people but
it's still some people got the got hurt or got killed because they were they were targeting the apartment that some special person was inside so the whole people who was living there got hurt or injured which was like really sad.
I drink.
Mm.
Fatemeh (37:42.068)
so yeah this is like this was scary for for everyone. But
The biggest problem about the VAR for me, I mean or in my idea, was that life was stopped. So it means that you wake up in the morning and you don't really know what to do today. You have just sitting there and
Sorry. You just have to f follow the news, looking for any new information or try to predict the future. And it was unbelievable. And it was after after a few days, you know, it started to be really like being in prison. Because you you cannot really do anything for especially for us, you know, we are pilots, we are just
gavin (38:13.594)
It's okay.
Fatemeh (38:41.69)
I mean get used to be out. And at that time I I just was like in a big pressure because I didn't know how how things would go and what what should we do or what would be the next step or so this was the big problem for me. Economy slow down and plans are uncertain. You also are worried about
all the people that you know so you try to contact them but it's not possible to contact because net was completely I mean no internet at all. For the first the first days it was not even possible to call anyone. So it was it was really like a nightmare that was not ending and but as I told you like Iranian are
gavin (39:16.921)
Really?
Fatemeh (39:36.249)
Interesting for me. They they tried to find small reasons to continue life. And they started to gather families. I mean they started to find a reason to cook, dance like like a pandemic we we started to just cook because you cannot go out, you cannot do anything. So we just started to make a cake or bake bread, you know me because it's nothing else that you can do.
gavin (40:03.311)
Make the best of it.
Fatemeh (40:06.72)
And yeah, during the war many cities hosted friends and relatives who left Tehran temporarily, and yeah that was like that. So then the Norus arrived. You know, Norus is our Iranian new year, and it's in the first day of spring, which is celebrating the birth of a nature, and for Iranian it's some
Really pick some symbol of rebirth. And it is the most important celebration of the year. And Iranian celebrated New Year just in the middle of the war. So it was interesting also. People were like you just imagine a Christmas time. It's that everyone is going.
to shopping, New Year, presents, gifts, gathering together and it was in the middle of bombing every day. So but Iranian celebrated it and it also was really beautiful and interesting for me.
gavin (41:12.143)
Easy.
gavin (41:20.005)
What what is the kind of general sentiment of the people towards the Israelis, towards the Americans right now? Is it just hate? Is it acceptance? Is it hopeful? Is it optimistic? Is it what what what do you think people are feeling right now?
Fatemeh (41:40.037)
I mean when you look at the society, I mean historically, Iranian people feel culturally really close to American people because values like personal freedom, property rights and like like to Iranian like to have business, you know.
It's like most most like American way of thinking in comparison to, for example, European, which is more socialist, you know what I mean? So I think for Iranian, I mean yeah, US government now is attacking, but first of all Iranians feel really
fr have have refer friendship relationship fr fr really friendly fri relationship with US people and where when I also want to talk about I mean with Israel Iranians have this sympathize with Palestinians because because of the things that happened to them but also Iranians
also don't feel any any like don't find themselves enemies of Israelian people also. So what Israeli government is doing is not not not acceptable for most of the Iranians, not all of them, to Palestinians. But on the other hand, you know it's a lot of Iranian who live in
Israel. So it's also lots of things in common. That the the Iranian who immigrated to Israel, the the Jewish Iranians. So by the end Iranian don't find themselves to have any problem with Unite American people or Israeli people or Palestinian people. And we end up having this war.
Fatemeh (43:56.811)
And about this war, this is big conflicts, this is big disagreements. Maybe it's the same in US at the moment. So some people were supporting, and now we end up. I mean, just what's the point? The war is end or going to be end soon, and it cost a lot for Iranian people and nothing changed. Some people wanted it, some people didn't want it.
But lots of people used to think that it will end different, but now I think most of the people don't ha are not supporting the war at the moment.
Fatemeh (44:40.969)
Yeah, exactly. What is the point by in the end?
gavin (44:45.935)
Yeah, it must be a must be a very strange and it I'm sorry scary time to to to be there. I'm I'm I bet it's a bit of a relief to be in Italy and just flying your paraglider. It's gotta be a little bit more relaxing.
Fatemeh (45:01.116)
yeah, but to be honest, I didn't feel that I'm not safe when I was in inside the country. I even we were talking with my parents that do we need to maybe go for some months out in Turkey or because it's possible for us anyway, and then we decided no, we will stay home. And it's interesting if I tell you that since the war started, it was a lot of Iranian going back rushly to the country. And no
gavin (45:05.231)
Mm.
gavin (45:29.808)
Really?
Fatemeh (45:30.764)
Yeah, you expect that they would run out, but they were run in. So I'm telling you, Iranian art different and sometimes interesting even for me as an Iranian. So yeah, they just was rushing going back because they were worried about families, friends, their business, because of not having lack of the connections and internet. So and they really didn't afraid of being hurt or killed as a person who is not
gavin (45:36.271)
Hmm.
Fatemeh (46:00.408)
I mean military person.
gavin (46:04.581)
Great. okay, well let's pretend that the the war wasn't happening and you were back home and participating and flying and you're you're up on launch and a young Iranian girl comes up to you, you know, you're you're the queen of I Iran skies and she's heard about you and she wants to learn. This is her first possible you know, she's she's gonna take her first flight and she comes up to you with big wide eyes and asks you,
you know, can she learn how to do this? C can she learn how to be a a pilot? What what do you tell her, that little girl? What what do you tell her about what she'll face, maybe what she'll gain, why she should do it?
Fatemeh (46:48.836)
I would ask her why do you want to fly?
Fatemeh (46:55.706)
Because maybe according to my experience, most of them want to fly because they want to do something with full of adernaline, which is not the case. Or they want to do something special as a something like a luxury thing, which I don't see it either. I mean for flying
I need a special character and personality and I at least I want them to know what is it really. So that's why I always ask them why do you want to fly? And based off according to their answer, I can help them to start or I can convince them to go and do something else, not wasting their time, energy and money and mine.
gavin (47:49.242)
Mm. Mm. So the the reasons have to be pure in their heart. They have to want to be a bird. They have to want to fly, not to just participate in something that's a like a Disneyland ride.
Fatemeh (48:03.694)
Exactly.
gavin (48:05.739)
that's nice. That's a great way to go about it. What what's your what's the reason for this? What's what's the purpose? That's a smart way to start.
Fatemeh (48:16.528)
yeah, for for being a good pilot, you need to want to fly, you know, you need to be patient, you need to try hard, you need to push your limits, you need to put time and energy. And I I just don't want to
I mean flying is something special for me. And I just don't want to make it like a it's not a just a business, you know. It's easy to just I mean but it's for me it's not like that. So and I don't want to people start and be disappointed. So I want them to know what they are going to face. They I mean what they are going through, what is the path, what is what is what is the procedure.
And I this is something that I also wish someone else would do that for me. So if I'm asking about something, if someone knows, I expect them to explain for me what is it really? Or what challenges I might face. Or yeah, this is simply what I would do, what I what I expect, and that's that's what I would do.
gavin (49:34.916)
I I gather you've been flying about twenty years now. when you think about tomorrow and a year and five years down the road, what are you excited about now after all this time flying and competing and what keeps you going? What are you excited about?
Fatemeh (49:56.261)
yeah, I I'm I was doing a lot of different things and I found out that anything else like anything else that I'm doing it gives me the feeling of like this level maybe 10 20 and when I'm in the sky it's 100%. So when I'm not in the sky, I just miss it. I simply miss it.
And it happens like every year several times for me that I'm in the sky and I'm doing a special experiment in the sky, fly somewhere, go somewhere, I mean experience something that I'm feeling I am thinking that wow. If I was if I had to learn all of these things for 20 years to be able to do this flight, just this one.
And be just now at this location and watching this view, it's totally worth it. Just for this one. And this is simply what makes me not to be able to quit. So I my my goal is to continue doing this this as long as possible. That's why I really am taking care of myself. I'm not risking that much recently. I'm now I'm I'm I'm getting old, I'm 37 now.
gavin (51:05.468)
Yeah.
Fatemeh (51:25.424)
So my my my way of flying is now different and I really taking care of myself I I because I want to do it for maybe next fifty years or something. And I don't want to because I know I will miss it. I would miss it. And I simply cannot quit.
gavin (51:40.496)
Ha ha ha.
gavin (51:46.875)
Hmm. Nice. And a perfect place to stop. Fatima, you're great. You're s I've I I I've just got new wrinkles in my face. I've been smiling for so long. thank you so much. I really appreciate you making this happen. I just thought the timing had to be now for this, given what's going on in the world.
Fatemeh (51:57.421)
Yeah.
Fatemeh (52:07.844)
Yeah.
gavin (52:07.868)
Really enjoyed following you all these years doing cool things. And I thank my my ex partner Jody for putting me on it. She said, You've got to get I just texted her actually a couple of hours ago. Yeah, I'm getting Putuma on the show. So well, good luck in Italy, good luck at the SRS. have fun and in Basano and you must eat at the Abbey. Just
Fatemeh (52:17.861)
Ha ha
Fatemeh (52:23.919)
Yeah.
gavin (52:28.176)
Check it out. I went there eight nights in a row back many, many years ago when the weather was terrible. The food is so good. So enjoy and fly fast and fly safe. And thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate you.
Fatemeh (52:40.356)
Yeah, thank you for you to having me. I also want to thank the SRS organizer, Brett and everyone, because yeah, they helped me really to get here. We had a problem for registration and everything and I I really am thankful about all of this good atmosphere here in SRS and Basano. And they they are making a really nice things like sport class competitions.
And I also am su super happy that I could manage to get here. It's I I thought it might be difficult, but yeah, here I am and I I'm looking forward to fly this week. And thank you for you. that I was listening to your podcast and I understood. I mean I I I I really appreciate the people who make this paragoliding things bigger.
or more more give give the possibility for people who even not flying be a little bit more deep into it. So thank you for your all of the things that you are doing and thank you for having me.
gavin (53:54.588)
Thank you. Thank you, Fatima. I appreciate it. And yeah, it's an amazing community. We're we're both very fortunate to be part of it. But thank you and good luck.
