John Sylvester, Eddie Colfox and Jim Mallinso n break it down in Bir
Eddie Colfox has an unbelievable history with paragliding, beginning in 1991 at home in the UK and later across India, Pakistan, and Morocco. In this show Eddie discusses the evolution of the flying community, the connections formed through shared experiences, and the challenges faced in high-altitude flying. Eddie shares personal anecdotes, including his work with notable figures in the sport and the impact of his diverse experiences on his life and career. The conversation highlights the thrill of adventure, the importance of community, and the lessons learned along the way. We delve into the inception of the Himalayan Sky Safaris, the vibrant flying community in Bir, and the unique experiences that come with flying in the Indian landscape. We discuss the important balance between fear and safety, the role of tandem flying in personal growth, and the responsibilities of guiding. Eddie reflects on the importance of teamwork, the lessons learned from experience, and the significance of caution in adventure sports. The conversation wraps up with thoughts on future aspirations and the enduring love for flying.
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Eddie started paragliding in 1991, driven by a passion for flying. He formed strong connections with influential figures in the paragliding community. Eddie’s first experience of paragliding was a spontaneous flight off a hill. The journey to India was sparked by a job offer from a unique character, Wrenkly Dick. Eddie has flown in various countries, including India, Pakistan, and Morocco. His adventures in Pakistan included flying at extraordinary altitudes. Eddie’s experiences in Morocco were both personal and professional, blending travel with paragliding. He has never managed to make paragliding a full-time career due to diverse interests. Eddie reflects on the challenges and thrills of high-altitude flying. The conversation emphasizes the importance of community and shared experiences in adventure sports. Eddie’s first experience in the Himalayas was intense and challenging. Bir has become a hub for paragliding since 2005. Flying in India offers unique experiences but also comes with risks. Fear can be a useful tool in managing safety while flying. Tandem flying helps pilots maintain excitement without pushing personal limits too far. Observation is crucial for safety in guiding and flying. Team dynamics and mutual respect are key to successful guiding. Learning from less experienced pilots can provide valuable insights. There is always another day to fly; patience is essential in the sport. The conversation highlights the importance of enjoying the journey in paragliding.
Sound Bites
“It’s been a while.”
“I still have very good memories.”
“I started in 91.”
“That’s how the three of us got together.”
“I had a fantastic time.”
“I was just his sidekick.”
“It was just extraordinary.”
“Extraordinary heights.”
“I was too scared to go over the back.”
“We survived and there’s some great stories.”
“I like flying and landing somewhere vaguely safe.”
“Observation is the key phrase that people miss.”
“There’s always another day.”
“I hope I’ve made some sense.”
Chapters
00:00 Revisiting Old Memories
03:04 The Journey into Paragliding
06:00 Building Connections in the Flying Community
08:58 Exploring India: The First Encounters
12:05 Adventures in Pakistan
14:55 The Moroccan Experience
18:00 Life Beyond Paragliding
21:02 The Thrill of High Altitudes
24:02 Reflections on Flying and Life
26:57 The Evolution of a Pilot
30:00 Final Thoughts and Future Aspirations
33:30 The Birth of Himalayan Sky Safaris
35:55 The Allure of Bir and Its Flying Community
37:16 Experiences in the Indian Flying Landscape
40:14 Navigating Fear in Paragliding
44:52 The Role of Tandem Flying in Personal Growth
Gavin McClurg (00:00.488)
Eddie, it's good to see your smiling face. You're looking kind of St. Nick these days. How are you buddy?
Eddie C (00:15.428)
I'm really well, really good, thanks and it's great to see you again. seen you for ages.
Gavin McClurg (00:20.238)
Yeah, it's been a while. We were just chatting the other day about your rescue thoughts of beer, which we might get to here in a bit. it was 2011, the last time I was in beer, and I don't think I've seen you since. It's been a while.
Eddie C (00:35.713)
Yeah, that's right. But I've heard plenty about you. You know, you've been having a great time by the sense of things. Good to hear.
Gavin McClurg (00:38.51)
Well, yeah, it kind of started there and it's carried on, but I still have very good memories of our time in Beard Together. You guys were setting up kind of a tandem bivy operation and we had that fun trip with Thayer Walker. I mean, it all seems like another lifetime ago now. It's crazy.
Eddie C (01:02.891)
Yeah, yeah, that tandem trip, we stopped doing that, but we're considering reinventing it now. The insurance situation has changed. We stopped because the insurance situation got really bad, but it's got better again. So we could do it.
Gavin McClurg (01:10.68)
Really?
Gavin McClurg (01:18.926)
And we'll get up to that timeline, but I thought maybe a fun place to start is, you you've got a lot of history with this sport. You've been doing it a long time. How did you begin? How did you tie in with the boys? How did it become Himalayan Sky Safaris? Let's take a walk back in time here for a little bit.
Eddie C (01:45.152)
Okay, the sorry my phone went I'm just gonna turn that off the Yeah, so yeah, well I've been flying since since Since since a long time I started in 91 And it was it was I yeah, I started in 91 and it was it was really
Gavin McClurg (01:50.808)
Perfect.
Eddie C (02:12.533)
because I really wanted to fly. was quite young then, know, some time ago. And a friend of mine, I wanted to hang glide, but unfortunately my family wouldn't let me and then my relative had died doing it in the early days. It was, a sad story. But then, you know, once I turned 18, 20, I got it together myself to...
go out and do it but I could never get it together because I worked on boats but then my hang gliding friend turned up one day when I was in England and we went for a walk and he had this big bag with him and then he said let's go to the top of that hill and I thought shit what's gonna happen and then there was a wing, there was a windy day, the wind was vaguely in the right direction and he bunged me off. So that's my first experience of paragliding.
Gavin McClurg (03:03.438)
Perfect. Well instructed, nice and safe.
Eddie C (03:05.623)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, he was good. He knew his stuff. He was a he was a British. He had the British record at the time. But, you know, well, it was big, actually. It was surprisingly big. He'd got stuck in some convergence. He'd done 98 kilometers. He held the record for a long time. I think it was in 91 when I did this walk and he held the record for
Gavin McClurg (03:16.461)
Which was what? Do you remember?
Gavin McClurg (03:27.852)
Wow.
Eddie C (03:35.647)
Yes, I think until about 98 or some considerable time.
Gavin McClurg (03:40.91)
I love that he got stuck in conversions. Holy shit, what do I do? What do I do about this? It's bumpy and uncomfortable. Christ.
Eddie C (03:43.595)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, was, he was a good man, chap called Ross Somerville, and I just want to shout out to him, because unfortunately, he's another chap who's passed more recently, you know, on a bicycle accident. So he was, he was still living at large. He was cycling around the world in his seventies.
Gavin McClurg (04:07.007)
shoot.
Gavin McClurg (04:12.828)
wow, excellent. We just lost one of my ex Red Rocks competitors to a bike accident. Hang glider and Kevin Carter, an amazing guy. These things are, yeah, tragic. We lose people along the way. We lost one of the best with your good friend John.
Eddie C (04:13.739)
Yeah.
Eddie C (04:20.887)
Yeah.
Eddie C (04:29.067)
Yeah. Yeah.
Eddie C (04:35.447)
Yeah, we sure did. Yeah, that was a huge sadness to everyone, the sport in general, and lots of people in particular. Yeah, very sad.
Gavin McClurg (04:44.078)
Yeah, yeah, he was real instrumental in getting me going. Okay, so you learn in 91 and then what?
Eddie C (04:49.141)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yes. So yeah, how did I get together with all the with the the gangs of people I flew with? I don't know. I knew John early on. I was very, very, super clean, like many of us are early on. I was doing all the comps and that kind of thing. And I got to meet John in that way. So, you know, in the early 90s, Jim, you know, who was another instrumental, you know, he is an instrumental man in both my
my normal life and my flying life. Fantastic. You've interviewed him. You know him well. Yeah, Jim Mallinson or Professor Sir James Mallinson. That's called, you know, yeah, yeah, more abbreviations after his name than most of us, most of the neurodivergent people in the HD. Sorry.
Gavin McClurg (05:26.697)
Yeah, Jim's great.
Gavin McClurg (05:32.526)
More appropriate, yes.
Gavin McClurg (05:45.322)
man, I was so, I don't think I've ever been so nervous doing an interview than I was with Jim. I mean, just in the week before it, thought there's no way I can hang with this dude. How am I going to pull this off? But just let him talk. It's brilliant.
Eddie C (06:00.021)
No, yeah, yeah, I he's a very welcoming man, very able. And so I met, so Jim again, I met up with Jim again through the flying world, but I knew him a little bit through parties in Oxford. I wasn't an Oxford student myself, but I hung out there with some of my friends, so I met Jim there. And then Jim actually ended up going out with a great old friend of mine, Claudia, who he's now married and got two lovely children with.
And so I've got really strong connections with Jim going back into our teams. Yeah. then I had, it's a nice story. It's sort of tinged with a bit of misery because I was getting divorced. Jim said, come on, man, let's go and do something fun. Why don't we do this? And so we started up Himalayan Sky Sofares. I said to John, come on, we've got to have at it. I knew John well. And I managed to.
Gavin McClurg (06:33.912)
wow.
Eddie C (06:58.641)
know, join him up a bit about the idea of guiding again. He was a bit reluctant initially, but he enjoyed it. And so that's how the three of us got together. And then of course, beer, I, you know, I met some fantastic people. Debu I knew because I'd been working in Maharashtra in the mid nineties. I worked for a guy called Wrenkley Dick, know, Dick Jones, Richard Jones. And he was an old guy and he called himself Wrenkley Dick.
We had Winkley Dicks flying circus in Goa, and let's get high on a line. And we had a winch outfit at Southam Juno. And we did loads of tandems at Southam Juno and Arambol. And we were teaching paragliding to the Rajneeshees, the Loonie Maroonies, however you want to call them. So the Osho people in Pune, in Maharashtra. So this was back in 95 and 96.
two winter seasons out there. And I met Debby on the beach in Goa with Bruce Mills, who was like the sort of the grandfather of paragliding and beer. he and Bruce just turned up to talk, I think, you know, for various reasons, but part of it was to talk to me because flying was still in its infancy everywhere, particularly in India.
Gavin McClurg (08:08.632)
and
Eddie C (08:20.393)
So they came to check me out because I was a BHPA, British Hang gliding paragliding instructor working in Goa at the time. Yeah, not under the auspices of the BHPA at that time because at that time they couldn't do it abroad. But I was a paragliding bun in his 20s having a great time teaching paragliding in Goa and at a restaurant.
Gavin McClurg (08:43.054)
Okay, orient me geographically here, because I've spent quite a bit of time in that part of the world, but I'm not familiar with that area.
Eddie C (08:52.425)
Okay, so Goa is on the West Coast, more or less, more or less halfway up India. It's a Portuguese colony. And it's, you know, it's beautiful beaches. It was renowned throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s for its party scene. And sort of sort of hippie, hippie lifestyle, wonderful food and yeah, it was great place to hang out.
Gavin McClurg (08:58.136)
Okay.
Gavin McClurg (09:10.061)
Yep.
Gavin McClurg (09:21.1)
And this, what kind of flying is this? Is this more kind of red soaring and...
Eddie C (09:23.377)
it's... Yeah, it's terrible flying really on the scale of things. yeah, it's just ghost... Yeah, it's just very low cliffs and tiny. It's just good fun. But we had a winch there as well. And it was just to introduce people to the sport. then in land there are one or two good sites, but lots and lots of trees. So was always a bit alarming, you know, where you landed. But there was a place called Amberley that we used to go to a lot.
Gavin McClurg (09:32.327)
okay.
Eddie C (09:51.549)
around Maharashtra, particularly around a town called, well, the British, its old name was Pune and now it's called Pune. So P-U-N-E is what it looks on the map. that's about three or four hours inland from Mumbai, up on the Western Ghats. And Panchgani is a famous area, a famous
Gavin McClurg (10:14.862)
Okay.
Eddie C (10:20.759)
place now where they do two PWCs occasionally. Yeah, Panchgani, they got one in February, I think, there. And we used to fly there. So it was great. It was quite a big elevation. I was doing 50 kilometer triangles back in the day there.
Gavin McClurg (10:25.4)
Okay, I've seen that recently.
Gavin McClurg (10:43.98)
What was the catalyst to go out there to begin with? What was the first trip?
Eddie C (10:48.855)
Well, the first trip, the reason why I ended up in India to go flying, because I come from the sailing world and I've done lots of traveling in South America on boats and things. But I then just got hooked on paragliding and ended up losing that life in similar way, I think, to you. But I was younger and more flexible at the time. I was only in my 20s, really, when I stopped doing the sailing.
And then so yeah, it was sorry. I've got a tension spine like a goldfish. What was the question?
Gavin McClurg (11:27.182)
Well, how did you initially go to India? Because you guys all have this crazy long history with Goa and then beer eventually and all that, but how did you go there the first time?
Eddie C (11:30.385)
yeah, yeah.
Eddie C (11:34.582)
Yeah.
Well, was Wrenkly Dick. Wrenkly Dick. Yeah, yeah. He I was working in a British paragliding school called Paramania and it was the end of season and it was like, you know, sort of sometime in September or even early October. I can't quite remember. And it's like they they didn't have many winter bookings and I was only a junior instructor. I missed the you know, I the ticket to go out and
Gavin McClurg (11:39.958)
Wreckly Dick. Okay.
Eddie C (12:05.345)
to where did they used to go? They used to go to Alcadanales in southern Spain. And I missed the job to go and help them. And I was like, you know, I was a bit sort of, what should we do? And then this tall sort of charming guy, he was in his 50s then, he was my kind of image, know, Nat. And he turned up, you know, looking very old, know, introduced himself as wrinkly dick, bought three tandems off me.
Gavin McClurg (12:14.583)
Okay.
Gavin McClurg (12:25.975)
Yeah.
Eddie C (12:34.465)
three full sets of tandem gear and offered me a job in Pune working for him. So I thought what the hell, let's go. I had enough money from the, you know, to get myself out there and he promised me a job and he was good to his word and I had a fantastic time.
Gavin McClurg (12:41.492)
wow.
Gavin McClurg (12:50.668)
wow, and where Jim and Debu, were they out, did you know those guys back then?
Eddie C (12:56.407)
I think I knew Jim, but Jim was a busy student, but he would be hanging out. Yeah, he would have been hanging out in Endura a lot because he was doing his his his studies in Sanskrit. Jim, John, when did John do his big thing? You know, nowhere to middle of nowhere. I think it was it was around this same time. I think it was the year after, but I'm not I think I went out in 94 and I
Gavin McClurg (13:05.91)
Yeah, studies.
Gavin McClurg (13:16.845)
Yeah
Gavin McClurg (13:21.027)
Yeah.
Eddie C (13:26.327)
I have to check that timeline, I'm sorry, but I think that might have been 95 he did that. so, yeah, and people like Antoine and stuff, I don't know what they were doing. Debu, as I say, Debu turned up on the beach. So, you know, Debu was just starting out. Debu, when he turned up, he was like 15, I think.
Gavin McClurg (13:37.358)
30 years ago almost.
Gavin McClurg (13:42.327)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (13:47.842)
I was going to say he would have been too, yeah, he would have been really young.
Eddie C (13:50.071)
Yeah, yeah, he was super young. He turned up in tow with Bruce. And yeah, he was he was definitely a youngster. You know, he had he still does have quite a, you know, compared to gnarly old V. He's got a baby face. But back then, it was it was genuine. And yeah, yeah. So that's what they were doing. I don't know about all the other puner people. One of the guys
Gavin McClurg (14:03.864)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Eddie C (14:17.419)
who I'm eating beer still, Gilles Monnier, he was on the scene in both Maherashtra and beer at that time, he's an interesting bloke, he runs a school in Switzerland, fantastic guy, he was a regular beer man at the time.
Gavin McClurg (14:39.438)
So you start spending the winters in Maharaja and Maharajsa and Goa and then the spring and fall up in Beer, is that what you're doing? And then summer back home?
Eddie C (14:55.031)
No, after 96, I'd been all over the place. I started doing quite a lot in Morocco, I did bits in Mexico and Spain and just all over the place. I've always sort of managed to keep, I've never managed to be a full-time paragliding pilot. I've never managed to that, you know,
I've never managed to survive that way and also I've got too many interests as well. can't just fly, unfortunately. It'd be nice. I just get distracted and end up doing other things as well. But yeah, so what did I continue to do after that? I went to Pakistan in 2000 with John Sylvester. We did great things out there.
2002, that was when I did that first time, and again in 2006, and I think again in 2008. How's that?
Gavin McClurg (16:02.99)
Was that when Brad Sander was, were you guys doing stuff with him as well at that, in that period?
Eddie C (16:07.607)
Brad Sander was out there the second time I was out there. That was when he did his massive flight. He flew from Boonee to Hunza, which I think was about 250k more or less. he just, you he arrived. We saw him land. It was like, fuck, you know, sorry, I'm not that sweat on the radio, but it was like beep, beep, beep. You know, who's up there? And, you know, it was really extraordinary.
Gavin McClurg (16:11.886)
again.
Gavin McClurg (16:28.391)
totally, you can.
Eddie C (16:34.827)
And we were, you know, because we were, you know, we were being woken up in the morning by the Pakistan military being asked, you know, how do you do this? Where do you want to teach us? Being offered jobs and things, you know, it was a really extraordinary time. Yeah. And we did some amazing flights that flew down to Gilgit on my second flight, I think, which was, think it's, without the map, I think it's 70 K, you know, but it's over massive terrain.
Gavin McClurg (16:47.084)
Wow. Wow.
Eddie C (17:04.055)
And then I did a 90K out, then 90K back, and was in orbit, got to well over 7,000 meters. did the classic schoolboy error, so high up, and thinking, it's all so great. And I was probably so hypoxic, because we didn't have oxygen. And I was like, yeah, it's quite late. it's OK. It's OK.
Gavin McClurg (17:04.27)
Yeah.
Eddie C (17:30.733)
look, it's getting dark in the valleys, but I know I want to land where I sort of vaguely know. And then I did this massive long flight where I landed almost in the pitch black. Fortunately, I could see the sand. We landed on this sandy beach. But yeah, just amazing flights all the time.
Gavin McClurg (17:51.028)
Were there with John in Pakistan to guide or just to have fun?
Eddie C (17:57.527)
No, it's just me and him having fun. I was just his sidekick. It was John, you know, I want to, you know, we all want to mentor and I was very lucky. had, you know, I had the best, you know, I was the junior in the game and he looked up to me.
Gavin McClurg (18:00.286)
wow. Wow.
Gavin McClurg (18:09.898)
Yeah, for sure.
Gavin McClurg (18:14.924)
And what put it on the map for him? was, again, what was the catalyst for you guys to go to Pakistan for the first time? Because that, you now it's people going out there every year. It's almost a tribal journey. I mean, back then it wasn't.
Eddie C (18:26.645)
Yeah.
Eddie C (18:30.045)
About then, think we weren't the first people to fly there, but we were the first people to fly up there. Everyone else was the descending climber or low airtime. John, I think, originally flew there in about 86, 87, but he went out there in his first year of paragliding, whichever year that was, as a climber, really. He'd managed to blag some wings so he could fly down. He'd tried to flock. He'd camped under
Gavin McClurg (18:45.88)
Wow.
Eddie C (18:59.383)
Bibli Mountain, Ladyfinger, the spike on the picture, the needle on the pictures, which is like a 6200 meter, literally a needle, extraordinary thing. And then he flew down from it. And that was the big flight. That's what everyone, that's what they were doing. But when we started flying above the mountains, everyone was stopping us in the village.
asking us who we'd seen, know, which god we'd met, literally which god we'd met, which spirit. And so I went there because of John, I went there to go back to his climbing grounds, you he came from climbing.
Gavin McClurg (19:32.078)
Wow. Wow, cool. What a time.
Gavin McClurg (19:44.182)
Okay. Yeah, as many do. Did you have a background in climbing as well or is it mostly sailing?
Eddie C (19:48.065)
Yeah.
Eddie C (19:52.275)
It was sailing. I'm far too... I don't have the upper body strength for it. Let's be less modest. Say, my body's too big! My arms!
Gavin McClurg (19:53.955)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (19:59.306)
Yeah.
Eddie C (20:07.095)
Bit of a Tyrannosaurus Rex moment, you Good for pulling on weights, if I can put my weight into it. No, I'm okay, I'm in fairly good shape, but I don't have the shape that climbers have. I'm not lean, I was a rugby player at school, you know. Yeah, yeah, I'm 100 kg and...
Gavin McClurg (20:07.276)
You
Good for pulling on ropes.
Gavin McClurg (20:27.904)
Yeah, and John was very tall and lanky. He had the perfect climbing body.
Eddie C (20:35.351)
1 meter 87 think and John was 1 meter 93 or something like that and only about 75 kg you know.
Gavin McClurg (20:44.426)
Yeah, I remember him walking the line at the Colonel's place. You guys had that slack line all set up, but he was pretty nifty on that thing. I'm just a dumb wombat. I wasn't very good at that. We're built differently. Cool. Those must have been really quite...
Eddie C (20:52.705)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, he was a, yeah, he was a profession.
Eddie C (21:02.357)
No, no, no,
Gavin McClurg (21:11.342)
They must have shaped your attitude about the world in a big way, just flying in Pakistan. It's big terrain, big place.
Eddie C (21:19.915)
Yeah, it was just extraordinary. Yeah, I've got a track log of it. I've got a track log of it and where I went to 7,640 meters, something, know, having taken off 22, you know, it was, I was a sort of world record, but it was unofficial.
It was very complicated to do official records back then. You had to have sealed equipment and the sealed equipment was broken. you didn't have IGC files and all the rest of it. It wasn't digital. But yeah, just extraordinary heights. You couldn't thermal in the thermals because you couldn't core the thermals because your head just exploded with the pressure.
Gavin McClurg (21:55.335)
Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course.
Eddie C (22:15.317)
I've got a video of me and my voice is like super squeaky, you know, I sound like John actually, you know.
Gavin McClurg (22:21.742)
Yeah right, which is indecipherable. You just become Mickey Mouse. So you took off at 2000 something meters and you went over 7400 meters. That's extraordinary. Over 5000 meters of ascent. my god.
Eddie C (22:25.501)
Yeah, but it's because of the lack of oxygen. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Eddie C (22:42.807)
I went over 76 I think. I think it was 5550 something, you know, if I dig out the actual number. Yeah. No QNIMS were involved in the making of this video. was pure thermal.
Gavin McClurg (22:51.598)
UGHH, that's mind boggling. Yeah, that's a lot of gain.
Gavin McClurg (23:03.638)
Just, just, I love, I love too that you don't core. You kind of dip into it, go back out, dip into it, go back out. You just sailplane it.
Eddie C (23:10.369)
Well you just do big wide circles because if you're in the core you just... yeah you just cell plane it. It's just so much exertion you know and so little oxygen. That's not good.
Gavin McClurg (23:24.096)
Yeah, yeah. I love his films, his tandem films with his passenger.
just losing his mind the efforts that they did to try to stay warm and it's just amazing. wild. I mean one of my fondest memories of flying with John was with you guys very early on. I think it was our first trip up to Darma Sala. The first time we just went there and then another time we went there and we were starting to come back and I could never understand anything he said. So I just
Eddie C (23:33.526)
Yeah.
Eddie C (24:02.551)
Thank you.
Gavin McClurg (24:03.152)
would just, whenever he would get really excited, that meant I was supposed to follow him. I I couldn't really hear what he was saying, but that just meant, you know, go behind him.
Eddie C (24:13.365)
Yeah, perfect client. Perfect client, you know, just sticking with the guide and you can go anywhere.
Gavin McClurg (24:18.406)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What were you doing in Morocco?
Eddie C (24:27.157)
Morocco! Well the first time, yeah, that was a dream holiday. I had a wonderful girlfriend and we... Yeah, that was an extraordinary story because I was delivering a baby, believe it or not. She had a great friend who had come back to England to give an English friend, to give birth to her half Moroccan child. And so the four of us...
me, two girls, two women, and a tiny little child came back and delivered the child back to the womb of its bigger family. And we were treated like kings by all these local people, it was lovely. But I had a paraglider, and I had my first wing. was the first wing I owned outright called an Adol Apollo.
And we, just went flying. just went with Lucy. We hired a Renault 4 and we just drove around the Atlas Mountains and went flying. Yeah, and it was just a great place to go. And all the places that we went to are now flown quite regularly. You know, wasn't the first person in Morocco by any means. were millions of, the French had been going to Morocco for ages. You know, the French is the,
one of the languages that's commonly spoken there. But yeah, we just, I just went exploring. then I did quite a lot of guiding there, working for another school called Cloudbase, which was great fun. I was given far too much responsibility, but it was still great fun. I was quite green at the time. I hadn't done that much flying, but yeah, that worked well.
Gavin McClurg (26:24.974)
And you were up in the Atlas doing this or were you more out in the foothills to the west?
Eddie C (26:29.687)
We were more in the Atlas, in areas like Agregore, is a commonly flown area, Ulrica, Taradant, Tisnites. We did some flying, and I can't pronounce this, but Uarazati, somewhere deep in the desert. And yeah, that's how it was mainly in the Atlas.
Gavin McClurg (26:31.735)
Okay.
Eddie C (26:57.951)
and I can highly recommend it. Flew up to Cal from Tisna test. Did a long flight from a place called Ulrica. But you know, I was too scared to go over the back, you know, so I just pushed forward in a cloud street and made it. I think I made it sort of 30 or 40 K into wind. I don't have a track log from that because that was before I owned a Porsche. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (27:23.416)
You had all that stuff. Still taking pictures back then in the waypoints. No, of course.
Eddie C (27:27.783)
Yeah, well I wasn't even doing that, I was just hanging off the dear life.
Gavin McClurg (27:36.718)
So you said you've never really been able to make paragliding a full-time deal. What are you doing when you're not flying? How are you surviving back then?
Eddie C (27:49.495)
Yeah, well, here in the back then I was I was just I was painting and decorating in London, learning to be an instructor in the UK, doing whatever came my way. And I was basically basically sort of all jobbing it, you know, building sort of stuff. I trained as a boat builder. That's what I used to do on boats. I was ships.
Gavin McClurg (28:10.072)
Okay.
Eddie C (28:18.931)
ships rigour and carpenter on some amazing tall ships. And so yeah, so I did it, you know, some of it was quite glamorous, I suppose I was making catwalks and things. Yeah, yeah, that was good fun. Yeah, stage sets.
Gavin McClurg (28:34.744)
So the sailing you were doing was, wasn't merchant marine stuff. was tall ship traditional sailing.
Eddie C (28:41.931)
Yeah, was toolship traditional sailing in the main, but also a bit of yachty sort of stuff. It was sailboats. And I tended to be them. No, not really. mean, we only in the, we did the, what's it called? The thing that happens in October across the Atlantic. Yeah, we did. We did that anyway. The thing that goes from where all the yachts go together.
Gavin McClurg (28:47.212)
Yeah.
Yeah. Racing.
Gavin McClurg (29:03.693)
Jesus, yeah.
Yeah. Yep.
Eddie C (29:12.071)
And, but I was, was the most glamorous or the most sort of special job I did was I bought the Golden Hine back from Atlantic City. Donald Trump was one of my first employers, believe it or not. I've got history going back to getting back with Donald, you know, to, you know, this is pre my flying days. So very late eighties where I bought the Golden Hine, which is a museum ship, a copy of Francis Drake's boat.
Gavin McClurg (29:23.982)
my god. That's crazy.
Eddie C (29:41.547)
We renovated it and sold it back across the Atlantic. A 30 day passage became a 70 day package because we got blown off course and we had a night, we had various nights. There's fires, bucket chains, cells blowing out, all sorts of stories.
Gavin McClurg (29:48.566)
Ugh.
Gavin McClurg (30:00.27)
Whoa. Fires are kind of scary on ships like that. Fires are always scary on ships, but whoa.
Eddie C (30:06.519)
Yeah, yeah, it was properly scary. were, yeah, yeah, it had a, it had an open hold and all the water and diesel were together in plastic drums all tied up and stacked up three or four 40 gallon drum drums on top of each other. And, you know, tied up, but the ship rolled through so much that all the rope stretched so much that one or two broke through. And once one or two of them broke through, they all broke through and then they were all
spinning around in this in this hold and somehow we had to sort of secure the back you know and it was absolutely terrifying you know it was as scary as any paragliding it was worse than any paragliding trip because most paragliding trips you know you know know terrible events you're either going to die in the next two or three minutes before you know once when you hit the ground or you're going to land safely in two or three minutes yeah where could this
Gavin McClurg (31:00.226)
Right. It's not extended terror for days.
Eddie C (31:03.319)
Yeah, days and days when you're stuck in the middle of the Atlantic. Yeah, it took forever. Our voyage was ridiculous. Anyway, it's not paragliding, which I think we're meant to be talking about. Yeah, it's a good story. Yeah, yeah, it's a ship outside Southwark Cathedral in London nowadays. It's in a dry dock outside Southwark Cathedral. It looks tiny.
Gavin McClurg (31:14.478)
Yeah, but it's a good story.
Gavin McClurg (31:26.54)
So she's still going.
Eddie C (31:29.483)
Well, no, she's a museum. She's she's in a dry job right there in the middle of London outside of one of our oldest cathedrals here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that was a that was a good time. We have front page of some of the national papers when we arrived. It was extraordinary. Yeah. And the reason why we had so much trouble, I'm not saying, you know, I don't want to get seed here, but
Gavin McClurg (31:31.793)
Gavin McClurg (31:36.558)
wow. Wow, cool. That's a good story.
Gavin McClurg (31:50.093)
Wow.
Eddie C (31:59.455)
I think the person that owned the marina insisted that we left before the time that we'd pre-arranged and we got told we could cork the decks, know, do the seams on the planking on the decks during the voyage. And of course, you know, the weather was bad right from the beginning and we had water coming through the deck right at the beginning.
Gavin McClurg (32:20.239)
she weren't ready. She wasn't ready, yeah.
Eddie C (32:21.919)
Yeah, we weren't ready for it. She wasn't ready and we'd been pushed out early. Yeah, but anyway, we survived and there's some great stories and there's some videos of that somewhere online as well. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (32:27.714)
Gavin McClurg (32:36.686)
Okay, so you're spending some time in Morocco, flying, at home, I assume, in the UK, in the Southwest, and in beer. What other places are you going back then?
Eddie C (32:44.299)
Yeah.
Eddie C (32:50.647)
Back then, well, it's lots of the same places that everyone's still going to. I went to Valle de Bravo early on, which was fantastic. I helped Jocky Sanderson on a trip to Valle. But that wasn't that much earlier on. That was in 2000. That was the Millennium Cup. remember that was the Millennium Cup. So that's the date.
Gavin McClurg (33:01.314)
Whoa, yeah.
Gavin McClurg (33:16.174)
Okay.
Eddie C (33:19.073)
But yeah, Morocco, Pakistan and India, the places I've done most of my flying, most of my foreign trips and Spain.
Gavin McClurg (33:28.366)
Eh.
And when did the Himalayan sky safaris kick off in earnest?
Eddie C (33:36.459)
Well, John and I did a trip to Nanda Devi, which is a sort of wonderful mountain in India, which is a national park and you're not meant to go there. So John and I thought it would be a great place to go. To fly. The intention was to fly over it and around it and not to land. But we went there and to be honest,
Gavin McClurg (33:56.238)
of
Eddie C (34:05.719)
It was too full on for me. The conditions weren't right. It was inverted. It was windy. John, who's, you know, as we all know, is a sort of demigod. And he made a habit of landing in these gorges and climbing out of them. there's just no way I could commit myself with that kind of energy because it was just too scary for me, to be frank.
wasn't my game. I like flying and landing somewhere vaguely safe. I like flying over amazing stuff and getting really high and I don't mind strong thermals but I'm not a climber. We've said this already. I'm not a climber. And John was climbing out of these deep gorges with really shitty holds. He was climbing up mud and holding onto grass and that kind of...
Gavin McClurg (34:45.539)
Yeah.
Eddie C (34:57.207)
And you know, so I just thought hang on, you know, we had lots of discussions and I just eventually said, Jonah, you know, I'm probably going to hold you back if I hang around here. I'm certainly not. This is certainly not what I'm going to do. I'd spoken to Jim in the meanwhile and Jim was saying, it's lovely over here in Beir, you know, it's only an eight hour bus ride or 12 bus ride or whatever it was. eventually I just said, sorry, John, I'm off and got on the bus and went and hung out with Jim and Beir.
And so that's how beer started for me. And I've just got a date on this. Sorry, this was 2004. It's just remembered because the next year was 2005, which I think was the first PWC they held in beer. I've only actually been going regularly to beer since 2005. So and since then, I've I've gone every I've gone every fall. I've still yet to go in the springtime because I'm super busy.
I'm a farmer's son, that's something else I've left out. So the British springtime, I get busy at home with various things, including the flying. Nowadays I've got a tandem outfit and I did have a school here which is still running. It was set up by this wonderful guy who was my main instructor and he's still running at Andrew Pierce at Flying Frenzy. So I was always, the British season's short and sweet.
Gavin McClurg (36:01.57)
Mm.
Eddie C (36:25.439)
I don't like to miss it, so I'm generally here, you know, if I can be, I'm here from April to October.
Gavin McClurg (36:32.492)
And so 2005, you've been there every fall. Well, probably not COVID, I guess, but that's amazing.
Eddie C (36:37.099)
Yeah, I agree with you.
Actually, you're right. I did miss that one. Yeah, I missed that one.
Gavin McClurg (36:43.714)
Wow, that's a lot of trips to India, that's amazing.
Eddie C (36:47.831)
Yeah, there's lots of trips to India. I get through my passports mainly with India stamps now. And I love it. And it's changed massively, brings us back to why we've been talking recently about some of the things. It's still an amazing place, but like any sort of geographically interesting area.
Gavin McClurg (36:53.196)
I'm sorry.
Eddie C (37:16.215)
certain parts of it are a honey pot, a glue pot, know, they're very intense. The launch is very intense, know, there's engines which are too crowded. But it's still a fantastic place to go. It's still a launch pad into one of the best flying areas I've ever been to. You've probably been to places than me. Do you agree? It's been one of the best.
Gavin McClurg (37:20.226)
Yeah.
Sure.
Gavin McClurg (37:40.462)
it's extraordinary. Yeah, it's it is absolutely extraordinary. I mean, the the the recent carnage is, course, you know, just a heads up, I think, to our community that I mean, it's still big mountains. But I I still in my my memory is of punching it back into places where.
Eddie C (37:42.774)
Yeah
Gavin McClurg (38:04.586)
in most of the world, you just can't do that. You know, it's remarkable where you can put a glider in those mountains. You know, I'm just not used to flying like that in the Alps or here at home in the Rockies or really anywhere that I've ever been. You just don't go. mean, following you guys early on, there are these, know, really, we're going there. It was just, know, and everything is so in a sense.
Eddie C (38:28.441)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (38:32.798)
sensible, everything that you think would work because it's supposed to because of sun angle and all these things that we learn when we're first learning, it does work that way. you know, it's just at least as I remember, there wasn't a lot of Lee and there wasn't a lot of things that.
you really had to worry about other than it's big. It's just big. But it was very comforting and wonderful flying with you guys, just mentors and these big personalities. it was great being so new to the sport, being able to just follow you guys around in such remarkable terrain. And then everything that comes along with it, the food and the tea and the people and the
Eddie C (38:56.567)
Bye.
Eddie C (39:02.485)
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it is an extraordinary place. It's particularly, you know, when you're saying.
Gavin McClurg (39:21.6)
and the beauty. It's just remarkable.
Eddie C (39:29.675)
You flying into Lugia, that's particularly true on the the on the Diagonal range and going down towards 360, you know, on what we call the front ridge. Yeah, it's particularly true there. But, you know, of course, you know, if you go over the back, it gets more complicated. You do get bang. You do get some value wins on the on the front face. And so like you say, you know, people, people are.
Gavin McClurg (39:39.617)
Yep.
Gavin McClurg (39:46.722)
Sure, of course.
Eddie C (39:57.513)
It's in a wonderful place, but it can encourage complacency. You're saying it was great, it was very reassuring to have guides who had knowledge of the area to be able to fly into those leaves.
Gavin McClurg (40:01.292)
Yes.
Eddie C (40:13.975)
We can get it wrong, we do have a huge amount of accumulated experience. Sometimes you're not going to fly into the Lee. That's that poor, wonderfully honest man who got sucked up. Ben, that's it. Ben, yeah. mean, that experience and all credit to Ben for being so straightforward and honest about it. I wish we could all be less macho and say, yeah, I fucked up, which is...
Gavin McClurg (40:30.787)
Yeah.
Eddie C (40:43.499)
because you know the best lesson is someone else's mistake.
Gavin McClurg (40:48.578)
That's it. Yeah. We like the cheap mistakes, don't we? Well, that's a kind of a fun transition in a sense. When we were talking the other day about this, you know, about the carnage and about what's going on in beer and the...
potentially creating a different way to rescue people other than using helicopters, which we could talk about here in a bit. you said something that I remember you saying to me when we were flying together all those years ago is that you tend to fly scared. Talk about that. What's that? I think there is a lot of macho in the sport and I think a lot of people don't admit to that.
Eddie C (41:25.591)
I'm a kisspill.
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because I haven't yet read Kinga's piece in cross country and she says, fear isn't your friend. I haven't yet read the whole piece. I need to read it. But, you know, obviously people feel differently about this. I just feel that I don't think, you know, I think complacency is a danger. That's what I really think. You you want to remember it's not so much fear is your friend.
Gavin McClurg (41:45.613)
Yeah.
Eddie C (42:01.079)
because it can definitely hold you back. But you don't want to forget it. You want to nurture your chicken, is the phrase I sometimes use, because he or she is telling you stuff. You accumulate experience. Sometimes you can't figure out exactly what's going wrong or what is wrong about the day. But it's worth listening to it anyway. If it's totally illogical and irrational,
Gavin McClurg (42:08.278)
Yeah.
Eddie C (42:30.549)
depending on how bad it is, maybe just forget it. know, it's, know, we're in the sport, most of us, you know, the vast majority are in the sport for fun. So if the fear is holding you back and taking away the fun, don't, don't bother, don't bother with it. But if the, if the, you know, if the fear is telling you of a danger, it's worth listening to it. It's worth, it's worth, you know, cause there is always another day.
And it can all change very, very fast. You don't need a big accident to completely ruin more than your day, know, your life, the life of your friends and family, you know, the people who will miss you or have to look after you if you're, you know, if something worse almost than death happens. You know, I don't really know. It's slightly nervous about talking about this too much publicly because it's an individual thing. However, I am prepared to say that I, I, I,
I don't forget my fear. let my, you know, I, I, I, you know, I've got thousands and thousands of hours and many, many extraordinary places, but I won't let go of the brakes, you know, the controls, unless I know that it's safe to do so. won't, you know, I won't, I won't, I won't push my parameters. I like to push my parameters because it's new, it's exciting and you learn stuff, but I will only try and push them at
a small proportion each time. You if you're completely out there doing something new, let's slow down a little bit, draw back, consolidate, and then push yourself just a small 10%, 5%, whatever it is. So one of the reasons I started guiding, I started doing professional tandems is because I realized, hang on, I'm going to Pakistan, I'm going, you know, I'm going to start top land, 7,000 meter mountains if I'm not careful, just to keep the acceleration and the excitement.
and the fear, you know, and it doesn't make sense. Where's the logic? know, ultimately it's like, you know, it's like squirrel-suit and closer and closer into the ridge, you will eventually hit the fucking thing. so I just, you know, so for me, I started doing tandems and guiding partly to stop myself pushing my own boundaries too much. That makes sense. You know, cause I got to be careless.
Gavin McClurg (44:49.412)
wow. Yeah, it really does.
Eddie C (44:52.791)
I get a Vicarious thrill. I get a thrill from taking Gavin McClurg, who then becomes a Red Bull X-Helps athlete and up this wonderful cloud-based mayhem. I get a thrill from being a grandfather and still around, being involved. I don't want to die young. I've got five children. I've got a life to lead. I've got stuff going on. I want to do in my 90s.
Gavin McClurg (45:18.574)
love that that there, know, people have had some really unique approaches to longevity in the sport and...
keeping it safe. I've had some amazing conversations over all these years of doing this podcast, but that's a unique, I haven't heard it articulated like that. I think many people probably have done what you've done to keep it interesting, to keep it exciting, to pad the margin a bit, but that's a great way to...
do it is through tandems, through guiding, through instructing, it keeps you from squirrel suiting right on the deck. Yeah.
Eddie C (46:01.2)
Yeah, that's right, that's right. It's a very silly joke. I say I'm a parasite, you know, when I launched with every tandem, it's the first flight for someone or most of them, it's the first flight for someone. And you remember the first flight where your feet left the ground? I experienced that 12 times a day. Yeah, and I can get it 12 times a day on a good day. You know, you know, because I fit, you know, that's literally between my legs and
Gavin McClurg (46:15.611)
it's what we all chase forever, right? Yeah.
Mmm.
Eddie C (46:28.917)
And that gasp, sorry it all sounds rather pervy now, but that gasp as you launch, it's extraordinary.
Gavin McClurg (46:38.638)
That's really interesting. I've always had this real reticence to get into Tandems because it's the cliches. You don't want to make your passion your job. I've always been really reticent to, I have Tandem gear, I bring my daughter flying. I fly Tandems, I've never been a Tandem rated pilot. I've never done it as a business.
Eddie C (46:56.62)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (47:07.662)
his job because I don't want it to rob from my, but it sounds like it's the other way for you 100%. It's really a gift. It's really providing you a lot of joy.
Eddie C (47:21.569)
Yeah, it provides me a lot of joy. And also you've got to remember in the UK to stay competitive and exciting in the game, you've got to be prepared to drive along the way. You know, all the sites, I live right on the South Coast, so know, the good air masses are normal. So we tend to fly in winds, it's not always that way. You can do big triangles, but I can't, I'm too lazy. can't be bothered to deal with, you know, spending my life in a car driving all over the place.
keep that level of commitment. There are some amazing people who've been flying as long as me or longer who still get themselves at the top of the league, but I found it, I just don't enjoy chasing the weather that much.
Gavin McClurg (48:06.894)
Let's talk about guiding for a bit, Eddie, taking people up and down that range in beer, obviously there's just huge amount of, I wouldn't say liability, but like flying somebody tandem, you've got them in your hands. There's a lot of responsibility there.
Eddie C (48:33.587)
you
Gavin McClurg (48:36.654)
It is big terrain. mean, even, you know, even on the, even on the really good days, I would imagine there's some, I've never done any guiding, but I've been thinking about it quite a bit lately because I'd love to take people to the Alps and share with them some of the experiences that I've gained in the, in the ex Alps. You know, you just get to remarkable places in that race at remarkable times of the day. And I, I'd love to share some of that, but what
Eddie C (48:55.065)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (49:06.478)
What you've done in a long time, what do you guys, when you debrief at the end of the night with the boys, what's a common theme? What are you guys often talking about? What are the things that still make you nervous about it, I guess?
Eddie C (49:26.175)
It's people not observing. It's always the one word that we always say a million times and I think every guide and instructor does is, you know, observe, you know, watch what's going on, watch where everyone is, you stay safe, you'll climb quicker, know, it's observation is the key phrase that people miss.
I mean, normally in the evening when everyone's gone, we don't talk about flying, we talk about our kids, or we talk about, you know, we might talk about some of our dreams, you know, where we're going, you know. Yeah, it's about, and part of it is about not stretching it too fast, you know, just making sure everyone has a wonderful time and they don't jump off the deep end, you know. Back in the day when you guided with us, we were possibly a bit...
Gavin McClurg (49:59.81)
You
Eddie C (50:18.827)
brave inverted commas that we would take relatively inexperienced pilots and land them at 4,000 meters over the Minimally Valley just for a very early take off on a nice eveningly sleep. We're more cautious about that kind of thing now, to be frank. Yeah, the sort of stuff we talk about at the end of the day is how to push everyone's experience and knowledge
gently, you know, so they can firmly retain the knowledge without pushing them over the edge really, without putting anyone in too much danger. But we make it also very clear at the beginning that we are only guides. There's a big difference between being a guide and an instructor. You know, it's always the choice of the pilot if they want to follow us.
Gavin McClurg (51:13.934)
Yeah, right. risk it. What's the term I'm looking for? If you don't follow us, you're on your own.
Eddie C (51:26.495)
Yeah, that's, yeah, well, well, no, we spend that's not true in our case, because we spend a lot of time looking for everyone and making sure that they're with us, but they learn a lot more if they can stick if they can stick with us. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (51:38.86)
Right, yeah, I mean what I mean is, know, hey, we're a guy, follow us, stay with us. Don't go thinking on your own. Yeah, sure.
Eddie C (51:45.079)
Yeah, learn from us. Yeah, yeah, take advantage of us, you know. You know, the guys I tend to work with have all got 8,000 hours plus, you know, that, know. So take advantage of all, yeah, take advantage of all that knowledge.
Gavin McClurg (52:04.78)
This is another thing I wanted to ask. When you look back at the history of this troop that you put together all these decades ago, I would imagine it's pretty special.
in this world of guiding where there's things like egos and ability and talent and all these things that maybe are cause friction but you guys have held it together for a really long time. What do you chalk that up to? I mean you and Jim and of course John for all those years but and Debu and there's some new team members, new Antoine. I mean but you've all been doing this for a really long time. What has been the glue there? What's held that together?
Eddie C (52:49.873)
Well, the love of the sport is, know, and the love of the people and the love of the country where we fly. So I've got a dog that's constantly whining. I just want to get her out of the room. I won't be a second.
Gavin McClurg (52:59.486)
go ahead, go ahead for sure.
Eddie C (53:07.927)
Yeah, so what's held us together is, and also mutual respect, we're all different personalities, John and I are very different personalities and I'm quite annoying, I'm super annoying, I'm ADHD, I forget numbers, don't have a clue, you've asked me about dates to a certain extent and I just can't give you a straight answer. And so it's a degree of acceptance in respect of the other skills that we all have.
Gavin McClurg (53:38.254)
Yeah, I always felt like when we were putting those trips together in 2009 and 2011, always felt like if there wasn't all of you, there's no way it would have happened. had very, very distinctly different skills. mean, John was never gonna take any of the money or deal with the money or deal with logistics. He was just wee in the air and that was his skill.
Eddie C (53:38.465)
Fuck you.
Eddie C (53:50.369)
Hahaha!
Eddie C (53:54.775)
you
Yeah,
Gavin McClurg (54:08.91)
quite uniquely different skills coming together to make it work. If you would have lost one of the team members, you would have been hopeless.
Eddie C (54:17.911)
We work really well together, we're still doing it. I've stopped doing it alone. I'm still wonderfully involved with Debu and Debu works with a lady called Forum and Sky Summits and the cumulative personalities we all learn and we can deliver a better product in my opinion. Because everyone's different. So if you have a different type of especially if you've got a team with a variety of guides, then you're
you'll pick up different skills and they will say it in different ways and so on. know, the sport's dangerous. I consider myself very much as being a learner still, you know, and it's that kind of thing. I learn a huge amount and sometimes not very good pilots, they just remind you stuff. They remind you of stuff, they word it differently, well, not very experienced pilots. I think, you know, just having respect for everyone who flies.
Gavin McClurg (54:59.224)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (55:09.614)
Yeah.
Eddie C (55:16.919)
is sometimes, you know, some of the words they say, you can ignore it too, you know, it's worth hearing. We forgot to mention, you know, there's some other, know, so Antoine, of course, is a wonderful guy to work with and you know, brilliant pilot. You're saying about machismo, you know, the machismo goes with the more experience you get. know, we're all, you know, none of us have anything to prove. And
Eddie C (55:46.827)
And that's a great thing because it makes the world much safer and people more peaceful as well. If you're not trying to prove anything, know, we're still trying to enjoy stuff, do new shit, new things. I'm not being saying, but I don't feel I've got anything to prove. I'm happy in my own skin in the flying world for sure. And I'm very happy to be associated with so many wonderful people. The person I wanted to mention who we...
Gavin McClurg (55:59.48)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (56:07.081)
Mm. Mm.
Eddie C (56:15.997)
who's I feel has been slightly left out here is Mike. Can you remember Mike? Very good, very good. He is very, good, And he's still out there. Yeah, every year he's out there. Yeah, he's he spends his life traveling around the world flying in extraordinary places. You're you're running to Mike a lot in Guatemala and Interlaken.
Eddie C (56:42.099)
and in beer, and other places too. I'm not entirely sure where his itinerary takes him, but he's, yeah, he's, yeah, he's very much a free spirit and he's a super talented man.
Gavin McClurg (56:48.716)
Spirit.
Yeah, of course. I forgot all about Mike. Okay, I'm gonna put you on the spot, especially for someone who, you you've said ADHD, it's not in memory, do you have, I mean, this is digging into a lot of history here, but I'd love to hear, you know, maybe a story about...
Eddie C (56:55.211)
Yeah. Yeah.
Eddie C (57:02.487)
I forgot.
Gavin McClurg (57:14.038)
the craziest thing you ever saw in beer. And that could be one of the carnage stories or something just remarkable, something that happened that was that you still chat around it, then sitting around the fire at night.
Eddie C (57:29.591)
Sorry man, that's...
Eddie C (57:36.329)
Yeah, well, I mean, one of the craziest things was just reverting. There's so many of them, it's really hard. But if I link two of them together, because I'm going to sound quite critical on the first story, and then I'm hopefully going to sound a bit more humble in the second story, because it puts me in the same place. But the first story is very brief, know, that Ben, I think his surname was Laws, but Ben and his CUMILO number story just recently.
Gavin McClurg (58:04.162)
Demo's here.
Eddie C (58:05.047)
Yeah, and then and but seeing on that day seeing the weather I was in the landing field I hadn't actually flown that day at all and I just saw you know, you saw the clouds develop you saw the whole situation occurring and And then it was still occurring and there were still people up there and they were still coming back and they had speed You the clouds were massive and it was and it started pissing with rain and the number of
bright gliders on launch the following day was extraordinary because so many people had got so wet and it's like why the fuck are they still in the sky you know what's going on you know and it was really you know it was really extraordinary and so there I am sounding quite critical of the situation you know why are they there but then you know I think Jim said the story on this thing anyway I've definitely heard it because for Jim one of the most extraordinary stories for him was
me and he needing a climb to get somewhere. And there were three, three or four vultures. And Jim was, you we were in the same and I said, can't Jim, they're going left. Let's keep going left. Let's take it into the into the cloud and then fly out and Jim's, you know, Jim does, you know, yeah, that was so I'm a hypocrite, you know, I will do it. But it's
Yeah, so that's, you know, the extraordinary weather that people fly in in beer. It's just, it is mad. It is mad.
Gavin McClurg (59:34.027)
it
Gavin McClurg (59:40.066)
Yeah, you know, it was interesting that I had to check my own hypocrisy big time in the last couple of weeks, because when we put out the show with Ben...
I got inundated with emails from people who were there and saw it. And, you know, and we had, we had, we had both kinds of emails come in, people that flew that day and did the same thing and just got slightly luckier because they pushed out a little bit earlier, but, know, parachutal and tons of rain and, know, just also being lemmings and also going, I can't believe I did that. And then a lot of people saying, I can't believe people did
Eddie C (59:56.204)
Yeah.
Eddie C (01:00:06.199)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (01:00:20.7)
that and I stayed on the ground and what the hell are these people thinking? the hip check or the, it was very easy for me to nearly fall into the trap of going, what the fuck are you thinking? And you go, wait a minute, I've been there.
I would have probably done the same thing back then, not with you guys, because I would have had guides that would have gone, no, this is unreasonable, let's go drink tea. But we've all been there, and we've all gone through that period of where there's more stoke than brains, and you don't really yet know. And there really is a lot to
Eddie C (01:00:49.729)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (01:01:06.392)
peer pressure, even though there's probably nobody going, come on, let's go that day. But there's, when there are people in the sky, there's that whole, well, God, am I being a wimp? I mean, is there?
Those people are up there, it must be okay. And when you don't have the experience yet and you don't have the miles and you haven't seen it and you haven't seen the crashes, mean, back when I was there with you guys in 2009, 2011, I there were some bad crashes that happened in overdevelopment. Not with us, but there were certainly a lot of people coming in under a lot of rain and you're going, wow, what are they doing? Anyway, my point is that it's easy to be on the side
Eddie C (01:01:32.559)
Hmm
Gavin McClurg (01:01:47.408)
calling things out but we have all had those moments where like you said turning I mean I did it up in Alaska where I really really wanted more height okay well how do you get it yeah you stuff it into a cloud and I needed to do it in that that instance and it all worked out okay but it might not have you know
Eddie C (01:02:03.077)
Yeah.
Eddie C (01:02:09.783)
Yeah, but then when there's a big cloud in the sky and you're still all up there and blah, blah, know, you know, their situation is growing, et cetera, you know, because you've said it, you know, lemmings, you know, people being like lemmings following other people. And it reverts me back to, you know, nurture your inner chicken. You don't need to be a lemon. You've got nothing to prove. It's not even a comp day. And if it was a comp day, they'd have canned it. so, you know, it's like, you know, risk to award, you know, how much risk is this?
Gavin McClurg (01:02:28.407)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (01:02:34.85)
Yeah.
Eddie C (01:02:39.595)
What am I going to get out of it? You know, there's all sorts of things that alarm bells, you know, so, yeah, I get back naturally in a chicken, see if it makes sense. What sense is there?
Gavin McClurg (01:02:49.068)
Yeah, one of the recurring themes I got in the email was that, I was trying to break my personal record that day. there was a line, Chris Santacroce, I did a show with him ages ago. And one of his favorite sayings is, there's always another day.
Eddie C (01:03:10.678)
Yeah, yeah.
Gavin McClurg (01:03:11.522)
there's always another better day. If we only flew the really good days, we're going to break huge personal records. You don't have to do it on those days. You don't have to do it on the marginal days. There's always going to be a better day. I think that was what hit me the most was that why would you try to do it on that day? There's such obvious signs. And I think that was what Ben was so honest about. There was no reason for that. It was just ridiculous.
Eddie C (01:03:14.487)
Yeah.
Eddie C (01:03:37.515)
Yeah, there's no reason to... Yeah, there's always tomorrow, for sure. And if you're trying too hard, you're probably doing the wrong thing.
Gavin McClurg (01:04:02.414)
Eddie, you're treasure man. I appreciate you. I appreciate what you guys did for me all those years ago. I still have such fond memories from it and the world thanks you all for sticking together all these years and creating so many incredible experiences for so many people. thanks for coming on, man. Thanks for sharing your stories and what a life. What a life of adventure you have led. It's remarkable.
Eddie C (01:04:31.169)
Thank you, it's been a pleasure and I hope to do it for much longer too.
Gavin McClurg (01:04:35.614)
Excellent, excellent. Talk to you soon buddy.
