In this conversation, Belgian pilot Koen Vancampenhoudt shares his journey as a paraglider, highlighting his record-breaking flight in Mexico, the challenges he faced, and his early experiences flying with zero information in Fiji. He reflects on the importance of safety training, the thrill of downwind flying, and the lessons learned throughout his flying career. Koen emphasizes the need for proper instruction and the value of learning from experiences, both good and bad, in the world of paragliding. In this often hysterical episode Koen shares his journey as a paragliding enthusiast and salesman, discussing the challenges and triumphs of flying in the Carolinas, his several experiences with legal troubles, and the importance of community in the sport. He reflects on his goals before turning 50, including long-distance flying and mastering acro techniques, while also emphasizing the need for proper coaching and the thrill of towing. The discussion highlights the balance between personal aspirations and family life, as well as the camaraderie built through the Carolina Tow Club. Enjoy!
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Takeaways Koen’s record-breaking flight in Mexico was unexpected and thrilling. The journey to the plateau involved navigating challenging conditions. Downwind flying offers a unique thrill and sense of freedom. Early experiences in Fiji shaped Koen’s passion for paragliding. Safety training is crucial for all pilots, regardless of experience. Learning from mistakes is an essential part of becoming a better pilot. Koen emphasizes the importance of having a reserve parachute. The camaraderie among pilots enhances the flying experience. Flexibility in planning is key to successful flights. Koen’s journey reflects the adventurous spirit of paragliding. Fear can hinder progress, but proper coaching can help overcome it. Persistence and meticulous practice lead to skill advancement. Exploring new flying sites can be both rewarding and risky. Legal issues can arise from adventurous pursuits in paragliding. Community building is essential for a supportive flying environment. Long-distance flying requires planning and understanding of conditions. Towing offers a different experience compared to foot launching. Setting personal goals can motivate pilots to push their limits. The importance of trust and teamwork in paragliding clubs. Adapting to family life while pursuing flying passions is crucial.
Sound Bites
“Ignorance is bliss.” “I followed them, you know.” “I’m looking forward to it.”
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Technical Setup 00:36 Exploring the Conversation Themes 00:41 Introduction to Koen and His Achievements 03:33 Epic Flight in Mexico: A New Record 06:38 Navigating Challenges and Decisions in Flight 09:42 The Thrill of Downwind Flying vs. Triangles 12:43 The Journey of a Paraglider: From First Flight to Passion 15:40 Adventures in Fiji: A Wild Introduction to Paragliding 18:26 Surviving the Jungle: A Night in the Wild 21:39 Finding a Lifelong Passion in Paragliding 22:51 Early Days of Paragliding 25:23 Adventures in Latin America 28:12 Challenges and Relationships 31:41 Learning from Mistakes 34:30 The Importance of Instruction 37:23 Life in the Carolinas 39:11 Towing and Legal Troubles 51:54 Adventures in Paragliding: A Wild Ride 54:03 Pushing Limits: The Quest for Long-Distance Flights 57:08 Challenges of Brazilian Flying: Tales from the Sky 01:00:57 Community Building: The Carolina Tow Club 01:07:12 Future Aspirations: Goals Beyond 50
Gavin McClurg (00:14.69)
Cohen, it's great to have you on the show. was psyched your buddy reached out and said, hey, you got to get them on because I've been kind of meaning to do this with you for a long time. I know you're a very persistent.
paraglider. You put a lot of hours into this and this year, you know, the records have been falling year after year after year in Mexico. It's been awesome to see what people are doing down there. know, Valle is a place that's very close to, I know, both of our hearts. You know, I go down there for the Monarca every year and you go down and send it and this year you went bigger than anybody had ever gone. Why don't we start there and then we'll
dig into more of your history and past and some of these crazy stories you sent me. Learning in Fiji and a forest fire and stuff, that would be great. Welcome to the show, thanks. yeah, what went down in Mexico this year?
Koen (01:04.981)
Alright.
Koen (01:11.081)
Well, first of all, thank you, Gavin, for having me on the show. It's a great honor. You know, it's great after so many years of flying to feel a little bit of, get a little bit of recognition of a couple of these things I've done, you know. I'm in a kind of a small corner of the world tucked away here in the Carolinas. Nobody knows much about flying around here. So it's gonna, it's been hard over these years to get out of this little bubble here. you know, fortunately I'll tell you later about that. I've had my opportunities to fly in many, different places. Partly that too, we'll get to that also. Well, yeah.
Gavin McClurg (01:36.48)
and go to jail.
Koen (01:41.189)
Indeed, indeed there's a couple of stories in that whole history, but yeah, Mexico, yeah, Mexico, we both love Mexico, we've both been there a bunch of times. I love the place for many reasons, but this year was evidently really special for me with that great big flight I was able to do, which was actually kind of interesting because I was totally not planning on that. Maya Gold for that day was...
big but much smaller than that i was uh... hoping to be able to follow you know the hot shot there on that typical triangle they were pushing you know a hundred fifty two hundred k triangle out to what's the name of that place at the end there and then and then back you know i've never done luviano yeah and then refer to uh... what is it in uh... the southwestern there i guess right
Gavin McClurg (02:16.717)
Out past, out past Louvianos.
Yeah. Out to narco land.
Koen (02:25.469)
Yeah, well, got, you know, I don't inform myself over such things because I would then, you know, you kind of limit yourself and sometimes it's just better not to know certain things, you know, which also applies to the flight I did. You know, so I launched early, that was my first time I think launching that early. I'm used to launching early in Northeastern Brazil and all that, but I hadn't really done that in Valle yet, kind of securing and flying with my buddies and all that. So this day I'm like, all right, you know, I've done all the other kinds of flights. I really need to try to push for this big triangle. So I'm going to launch together with, you know,
Gavin McClurg (02:29.198)
He wouldn't go.
Ignorance is bliss.
Koen (02:54.645)
you know all the hensie and cedar and all these guys that were pushing it day after day you know to to get these big triangles which was my goal and relaunch you know i launched with them everything goes well conditions around but you know i'm sort of i was not on the same radio frequency as they were so i didn't know what they were actually doing and i get to the end of dv-0 by myself and i don't see anybody anymore you know i'm like well you know
something went wrong or they changed their plans. I couldn't see them, I didn't know where they were at. And it was a windy day, way windier than expected. And well, I really didn't feel like pushing hard against the wind all the time, all day long. And I was looking backwards, like on the west, northwest side of the lake of Vaie. And the sky looked just like classic. mean, it was like early and it was already fully set up with beautiful cumulus clouds and everything.
And the natural tendency was for the air mass evidently to push that direction. So I'm like, hell, you know, I'm just going to give this a shot because that actually coincidentally, just a few days before that, I had to visit a customer of mine because this was theoretically sort of a work trip a little bit. You know, so I went to visit this customer in Queretaro, which is a couple of hours north from Bahia. And I rented a car for that, there, drove through these planes. been there before I saw those planes. I'm like, man, I mean, this must be epic flying here. It reminded me of Northeastern Brazil, which, know,
very familiar with. So I kind of had it in the back of my mind as a possibility to try to get there someday on previous trips I've gone past what is it Lake Victoria and something and had some pretty nice flights in that direction but never was able to really push further than that and this day I mean I'm just like well heck I'm just going for it you know so I got high.
Gavin McClurg (04:34.84)
And that's high, those that are listening who don't know where we're talking about, let's give them a little bit of, know, so Valle is down a little bit, there's the little reservoir there, the lake and the town, and then north of that, the terrain just goes, kind of keeps climbing, climbing, climbing to get up to the, I don't know what they call that plateau, is it the Toluca Plateau?
Koen (04:46.111)
Right.
Koen (04:54.965)
Yeah, I'm not sure what it's called either, but it's a very, it's right where via Victoria or, you know, Victoria is from there on, it's just flatlands, you know, if you don't.
Gavin McClurg (05:00.054)
Yeah.
Flatlands and high and high. And there's airspace too. know, the Toluca airport there is, that's a pretty major airspace that we always have to be wary of when we're going to Long Victoria. And it's always windy. It's always windy out of the South. going North makes sense. Okay.
Koen (05:10.523)
Right.
Koen (05:19.091)
Right. Well, you know, but yeah, before getting there, you know, like I said, I was at DV zero, which is kind of that point where you have to make those decisions what you're to do with today, right? So that's where I decided to basically just go north, northwest, north from there to what is it this place? I guess Santa Barbara and all that. I mean, there's this canyon, you know, you cross it and there's this canyon, which looks, yeah, it looks kind of scary. It doesn't look inviting at all, you know.
Gavin McClurg (05:28.109)
Yep.
Gavin McClurg (05:37.132)
Yep. Big cables and big power lines.
Yeah.
Koen (05:44.573)
And I thought it was super high because in the middle there, right past DB Zero, there's a town there, think it's Siene, Sienegiyas, is that what it is or something? Or Yokoyama, no, no, no, there's a very marked town where everybody always goes out, catches the thermal and goes back usually, right? So I just got cloud based there. I'm like, I got a perfect light to make it to the other side of this canyon or whatever. So I went there and then started hitting like massive sink. You're like, just, it's just going down like a freaking stone. know, I'm like, holy shit, this is not looking good.
Gavin McClurg (05:53.004)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (05:59.801)
Yeah.
Koen (06:14.005)
And I basically made it to the side of the canyon and got really low. You know, got parked over this little hill where I was just able to sustain for a little while hoping I was gonna get something, didn't get anything. I was kind of starting to think, you know, this is the end of my flight. Then I saw two buzzards or roaches, going kind of like a little deeper. And there was this one terrain I had where I could just land before actually having to dive into that canyon. And I followed them like, well, you know, they must know what they're doing. So I'll just follow them, you know. So I followed them.
Realizing that if I didn't get anything after my first turn over that field that basically had to abandon and just land there and forget about it, right? But I did get something I mean, it's light at first and then I started just working it and I got into something and I started drifting with the terrain like on the train as it climbs and as I started drifting a little bit, know more landing options opened up and I started feeling more comfortable about going deeper and deeper and I just followed it and you know, then I got out of there
And then from there on, know, there were more landing options. So it wasn't that tight anymore in terms of like, you know, landing out. didn't know that whole area was not recommended for landing in terms of like safety and all that. heard that afterwards. I'm like, glad I didn't know that. Yeah, sometimes it is. So I kept pushing and then just kept climbing, like, you know, scratching the terrain at times and all that, because like you said earlier, kind of, you know, terrain goes up there before you get that to that plateau and the flatlands.
Gavin McClurg (07:21.231)
Yeah, Yeah, ignorance is bliss,
Koen (07:37.621)
eventually still kind of a part real like i'm talking thirty feet over hill basically uh... in the wind you know busy as people working at just a state area you work that went around eventually got it and and i was my life that's really good climb before actually have a flatlands and once i did hit the flatlands it was like a little bit more fun cloud based in the other day real high and it was just a real say was easy because it was hard work but it wasn't hard in terms of get low and saves and all that i just a hide all time and started hitting
Koen (08:07.643)
was classic northeastern Brazil, you know, flying in terms of like clouds were working. was just pointed to the next cloud, the straighter possible line with the wind optimizing my speed. Climbs of like plus seven meters per second, you know. At some point, my GPS showed 125 kilometers per hour downwind speed. So that was about the fastest I've ever flown. My only concern, no, it was...
Gavin McClurg (08:11.278)
cloud support.
Gavin McClurg (08:22.56)
epic.
Gavin McClurg (08:29.294)
Whoa, wow, and smooth. It wasn't bad, it was just nice. As long as you were up and...
Koen (08:34.645)
Yeah, exactly. wasn't like, you know, scary, radically turbulent or anything. It wasn't smooth, but I mean, it was totally handleable. was totally not scary or anything. The only thing that was scary was the idea of landing out in those conditions. So my only concern was to stay high. But like I said, the clouds were working. It was just a matter of you pointed out the next cloud, you know, and there's landing fields all over the place there. once I hit those, you know, once I went past Lake Victoria, I mean, it was fast flying and it was like high.
Gavin McClurg (08:48.088)
Keep going.
Koen (09:04.021)
cloud base was super high and there was like no concerns. I really just kept high. I don't recall being low at all for that whole, know, for those whole what is it? 200 kilometers almost probably until I started getting to the other side of the plateau, which was already then towards the end of the flight. But you know, it took me like two hours to get to the beginning of the plateau and then it probably took me like two hours to cross the whole plateau. You know, it was so fast. It was fun.
Gavin McClurg (09:27.392)
It's it will have will have the link up on next contest to the track log because it's it's quite remarkable. You know, we we feel like we've gone a long way when we get the log of Victoria and whenever we have a task set up there, it's always a handful of people make it. You know, it's it's never a big quant. You know, it's never that many folks pull that off because of the wind and the low and you know, it's just it's a tricky flight. And but when you look at yours, you have to kind of zoom out, zoom out, zoom
Koen (09:43.795)
Right.
Gavin McClurg (09:57.249)
Zoom out like, holy shit, you went a long ways. I mean, that plateau is huge.
Koen (09:59.231)
Well, I think...
It is, is, and I think it is also because I went to the west of it, you know, and also, I that helped me with the airspace, which also was kind of luck because I hadn't really studied that. Like I said, I was really planning on doing that flight, so I kind of just went for it. But I've done the same sort of thing, like you said, I shall think it wasn't a competition. I don't do a lot of competition, not because I don't want to, just because I like the time and all that, but maybe two years or something, you know, ago, there was a task that had, you know, the goal was,
Gavin McClurg (10:06.637)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (10:13.923)
Yeah.
Koen (10:30.055)
near Lake Victoria and I went that way. it's like, you know, once you go past like near Toluca and all that, there's just, there's like two air masses there. And if you're a little bit too far to the east, it's just a sinkhole. You just, like a blue hole or something. So, you know, I tried that a few times and it never worked. On the left side, I was basically almost like on the foot, in the foothills there for a little while until I hit the plains and that worked just fantastically. So yeah, you know, like always in paragliding, it's always, you know, I see it as like.
Gavin McClurg (10:41.674)
Yeah. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (10:53.069)
Yeah.
Koen (10:57.973)
There's always the factor of luck involved, mean, often it's planning, you have your plan A or plan B, but then you have to have that flexibility to kind of adjust your plans to what you see is actually happening. If you're not in a competition, at least, you have that freedom to choose what you're gonna do with your day. And I think I was just lucky in that I recognized that opportunity and kind of just went for it without making too many questions about it when I was at that critical point there at DV0.
Gavin McClurg (11:00.238)
Sure.
Koen (11:22.721)
it was hard work and i said to get evidence ones once i got there i felt like you know myself in our fellow men those conditions are like one way that you know i'll be honest i i think triangles are incredibly admirable and you know so very technical or maybe more technical evidently more technical than downwind flying but you know i enjoyed downwind i just enjoyed a big number like you know i know do it right but it's fun you'll and right next your car and plus you know launch is something like that it's very convenient it's elegant
Gavin McClurg (11:45.239)
Yeah.
Koen (11:52.191)
It's beautiful, I love it and I'm focusing on it because I've done my share of downwinders, know, some new focuses to do with bigger triangles, but I still just enjoy freaking putting the gas on and going down as fast as I can, you
Gavin McClurg (12:04.782)
And we don't have, typically the days aren't super long down there. It's the middle of winter. mean, you're closer to the equator, but you're still long ways away. So I mean, we don't have those huge long days. What did the flight end up being lengthwise, timewise?
Koen (12:17.513)
Right?
Koen (12:20.861)
In time, six hours I believe it was, something like, yeah, six hours.
Gavin McClurg (12:22.926)
Six hours, yeah, I mean that's a long time in VIA. Yeah, I don't know that I've ever had a flight six hours in VIA, that's pretty good. And what put you down at the end of the day? Was it just, did you get the last final epic glide or did you make a mistake?
Koen (12:35.877)
No, no, mean it was the end of the day for sure. That was one thing. was, was, well while I was super high, you know, the thing is I was literally running out of land basically. That's what put me down. You know, the point where I landed, there weren't too many landing places left ahead of me. And then the terrain steeply dropped off. was like the end of the plateau.
Gavin McClurg (12:38.037)
Yeah, it just dying off.
Gavin McClurg (12:45.271)
No.
Gavin McClurg (12:52.056)
Koen (12:55.579)
And I couldn't see over it. was pretty high, but I couldn't see over it. And I had no idea if there was light. I mean, it looked like just drop off with like some mountainous areas and then a drop off into probably the jungle or something. don't know. I have no idea what was past these mountains. And the wind was blowing like stink. And I saw a big, you know, big fields where I knew I could set up at the beginning of the field. Actually, my whole setup was like from five miles ahead going backwards, kind of working between speed bar and average just to kind of backwards approaching the field.
Gavin McClurg (13:06.528)
Whoa.
Gavin McClurg (13:21.307)
wow.
Koen (13:24.693)
uh... because i was evidently kind of worried about that that last part of the flight it was it was really windy and i landed on on probably fifty percent you know fifty since the bar something like that vertical you know that i like that kind of work in it once i got out i killed my way and it was fine but it was definitely a little bit scary was the most important part of whole flight for sure
Gavin McClurg (13:28.202)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (13:38.317)
Wow.
Gavin McClurg (13:42.574)
Oh, it would have been scary to then drop off the plateau and be more down in the Lee and stuff. Yeah, I got you.
Koen (13:47.413)
I could have gotten over it if I knew it was there. I knew there was a landing field there somewhere, I would have gone for it. But I had no clue. had, you know, prospected it. I had no clue what was there and I wasn't going to throw myself off the edge, you know.
Gavin McClurg (13:54.156)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (13:58.157)
What was the wind blowing when you landed?
Koen (14:00.661)
I was honking, must have been 35 kilometers per hour, something like that at least. Like I said, my approach was going backwards and I was on 50, 75, sometimes 100 % bar, just working it to kind of position myself. Going backwards the right way to that field.
Gavin McClurg (14:04.23)
wow, it's ripping.
Gavin McClurg (14:14.478)
Man, good thing you stayed in the air all day. That would have been ugly to land two hours earlier and that kind of stuff when it's still ripping off and thermic and stuff. Yeah, wow. Wow, man, well done. Cohen, we gotta rewind the clock a little bit here. You sent me an email with some really, really funny stories. When, let's go back to your first, was it your first flight literally in Fiji? So you did a tandem?
Koen (14:19.539)
I know, know, yeah, yeah.
Koen (14:23.925)
All right.
Koen (14:37.841)
It was, yeah, yeah. I was backpacking. I finished studying. I'm originally from Belgium. I grew up and studied in Belgium and then I just wanted to see something of the world. So I bought a backpack and plane ticket, left for Latin America and started just traveling, basically improvising as I went along. I hadn't been exposed to paragliding up to that point. I kind of knew that it existed, but in Belgium's flat, there's no paragliding much. This was 96, 97.
Gavin McClurg (15:02.018)
What year, when was this? Okay, yep.
Koen (15:06.581)
So, you know, so, you know, I get into Fiji on a Pacific ticket that I got, you know, jumping several islands there. And I meet these French travelers, backpackers, you know, one traveling with this huge backpack, never seen one like that before. I'm like, what does this guy carrying along? know, turns out he's got like evidently his tandem glider, know, two pairs of socks, two pairs of underwear, and that was about it, you know. So I'm like, well, interesting. And he was a super cool dude. And he was a pro, you know, professional tandem pilot in France or Switzerland or something.
So he offered like, if we find a place where we can launch, I'll take you up. And I'm like, yeah, I'll hold you to that, you know, for sure. So we were staying with his local family, region family in this bay somewhere in the middle of nowhere, me, him and two other guys. And we went up with the local guy, Bob with his machete on this hill to kind of see if we could create a launch there, which we did, chopped off some.
Gavin McClurg (15:59.407)
Was this on the main island? Was this on Savu Savu or was this up on the north one?
Koen (16:03.893)
I think it was a North one, I'd have to look at it. This is a long time ago, I don't remember the exact location. I know I went to a couple of these islands. They're all beautiful by the way. But yeah, so we did find this place that was with a little bit of work and hour of cleaning up. We were able to launch from there. So Christoph, he first took the other guy up the front, the English guy, tall dude. Within 15 minutes, the guy was puking and then hang lifeless in the harness like that. You know, I'm like, okay.
Gavin McClurg (16:05.408)
Okay.
Koen (16:28.063)
so that he had to do a bunch of top you when you're over the all that the top and instead of down right on on the hill again because actually there was no landing he did you know i'll look at it back now i was kind of crazy we lost from there without even knowing if there was a landing because he assumed we were going to be able to land on the on the beach apart from top landing but we didn't expect we had explored the beach so we didn't know that actually you know i was concerned that i wasn't concerned not just that the guy blindly sort of riches i don't know i don't know i don't know anything i'm like he knows you know
Gavin McClurg (16:47.788)
Gavin McClurg (16:51.52)
Yeah, you didn't know. You didn't know anything.
Koen (16:56.415)
So was my turn, know, and we launched, we fly around for a little while and I'm like, hey, can you do some of those wing overs? That looked like a lot of fun, know, we're doing the wing overs and now all at once we're getting a little low under launch and we're not getting back up. The wind started dying off, it was end of the afternoon. And so we're starting to glide out towards, you know, the trees where we assumed that behind that was the beach, evidently was the beach. And then he sees this open spot in the jungle and it's like, we'll put it down right here. I'm like, yes, fine, you know.
Perfect landing, no problem. We pack up, you know, by now it's 5.30 almost 6 p.m. It's starting to get dark. Yeah, as a pro flyer, were probably, I mean, half a mile or a mile away from the place where, you know, the family, the hut was where we were staying at. But we had to cross this hill or mountain, whatever, and then kind of go over it and then, you know, turn the other way to go back there, which...
Gavin McClurg (17:28.256)
It's dark. mean, Fiji gets dark at six, yeah.
Koen (17:47.829)
Seemed pretty straightforward, so we packed up and started hiking up that hill, but then 30 minutes was, you know, totally dark. It was like 85 degrees humid, like we had no water and no nothing to eat or anything. The only thing we had was he was smoking cigarettes, so he had some cigarettes and like six matches or something. That was the only thing we had in that big backpack, you know. So we're sweating, we're holding up this backpack, you know, changing around, you know, he's carrying it, I'm carrying it, you know, after like two or three hours of not getting anywhere and then fricking tripping over stuff and all that.
we're like let's just sit down and just like you know smoking a cigarette we're sitting around alright let's go and he's like alright let's go and he started going in this direction I'm like dude we came from this direction we need to go this direction I'm like no let's just go that direction then alright so you know another two another two three hours of freaking you know climb and slide and whatever in the middle of night and touching you know slimy animals on tree bark and all that it was like a mess you know but but you know
Gavin McClurg (18:29.23)
Split the difference.
Koen (18:40.993)
I don't mind such adventures, know, as long as we're not in any danger or anything, we didn't feel like we were in any danger. And he was also kind of an optimistic guy, just laughing with the situation, you know. At some point, you know, we're seeing fire, like, just briefly, just like some firework. And then we didn't see it anymore. man, we must be like hallucinating. We're probably like becoming dehydrated or something because we've been hiking for five hours with nothing to drink and the heat. That was just weird, you know.
We kept it up for like another hour, go through like bamboo forest. Eventually we decided it was maybe a better idea to go back down to the beach and then try to like swim or walk on the beach or whatever. Well, there was no bees, there was only mangroves, you know. So we thought maybe there's only a little bit of mangroves. We'll try to climb through them and then swim or whatever, you know. Like we were climbing through these mangroves half an hour in, you know, it's like, like one of these matches, man. Let's have a look if there's actually men to this, you know. We looked and anywhere around us is like mangroves, like we in this.
natural prisoner or something, it's like, no, we're never gonna get out of here. So we went back and eventually decided to just open the paraglider and sleep in it right there in the jungle, you know? So, finally...
Gavin McClurg (19:34.272)
Gavin McClurg (19:42.784)
I love that you did a bivvy on your first paragliding flight ever. Bivvyed in the wing. mean, it's old school,
Koen (19:45.777)
I know, and honestly that totally set the tone for rest of my adventures as you will get to know. anyway, yeah, this guy definitely influenced me in a wrong way as far as making the right decisions about certain things sometimes. But anyway, so the next morning, it was easy to find a way back once we had daylight. We started hiking up the hill back and there come our friends, totally worried. They almost were at the point of calling the Coast Guard because they thought we'd
Christ, I mean they didn't know where we were at or if we were safe. We're like, no, we're good, we're good. And we're looking and there's like smoke coming out the side of the hill. The freaking half of the hill is burned down. And we're like, what happened? Well, these guys, they went looking for us at night and the Fijian guy, pulled up these branches or whatever from palm trees and lit them up just for natural torches, know, for light. And stuff must have fallen off and lit up the forest and it burned literally down this half a mountain, you know. We're like, holy shit.
Gavin McClurg (20:16.429)
Right?
Gavin McClurg (20:41.836)
God.
Koen (20:43.285)
So yeah, were actually, I mean, thinking about that, I mean, that was scary in terms of like, if we were sleeping there, we could have been surrounded by a fire or something, you know, we could have been enclosed afterwards. I mean, in hindsight, it was like, whoa, that was kind of not such a safe situation, honestly, but it was a good adventure and a good story to tell. So that was my introduction to paragliding. And honestly, from the second my feet lifted off the ground, I knew I had found my thing, you know, I've tried a lot of things before, I've always loved a lot of things.
Gavin McClurg (20:50.592)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (21:00.735)
Yeah, totally.
Koen (21:11.859)
you know, experiment different things and sports and all that. But that one, had zero doubts that that was going to be my main thing for rest of my life pretty much. And it has been, you know.
Gavin McClurg (21:21.358)
Awesome, awesome. Hold on one sec. My dog's trying to get in here. a sec.
Koen (21:23.317)
Sure. All right.
Gavin McClurg (21:47.138)
Sorry. He was asleep and he just woke up.
Koen (21:48.115)
No worries.
Gavin McClurg (21:56.867)
Miles, sorry buddy, that was about 20 minutes and 30 seconds there. You'll have to take that out. Okay, so cool, you have this wild experience in paragliding and you don't die, so you decide this is great. What do you do then?
Koen (22:03.221)
I'm sorry.
Koen (22:11.293)
Well then I went back to Belgium after I finished my traveling, another six months or a couple of months more of traveling. No, actually sorry, during the same trip I ended up in India on the coast in Goa. I saw that, well actually I was in New Delhi and in a youth hostel I saw this ad, know, learn to paraglide for a hundred bucks on the coast of Goa. I'm like, well, that sounds like a good proposal. So I went there and I'm talking, is in the early 98.
Gavin McClurg (22:24.087)
Yeah?
Gavin McClurg (22:35.736)
Was that Jim Mallinson and John Silvestri and those guys? They were there then, weren't they?
Koen (22:39.557)
No, no, those guys were up in the mountains. This was on the coast. This was on the goal is like.
Gavin McClurg (22:43.234)
Yeah, but they did a bunch of stuff in Goa. He would spend, Jim Maltzen would spend time out there. Man, I bet you guys crossed paths and didn't even know it.
Koen (22:49.765)
No, there were two instructors there. One was a Swiss guy, Guy, no Guy was the English guy. And then I recall the other guy's name. was, one was English, the one was Swiss and they had like their little school there. And I had two days of ground training on the beach, you know, and then then hops off this, I don't know, 300, 200 foot high and dune or whatever. Where basically it was still, know, that was the early days of paragliding where if you kind of had the glider more or less above your head, they kind of like just push you up the hill, you know, that was how it went.
And you know, was basically just flying off, approaches on the radio, left, right, boom, flare and done, right? So, and I walk away from there with my pilot's license, you know, from Western, Western India Paralyzing Association, valid for one year. like, I'm, I got it in the pocket. I'm a pilot now. I'm legit, exactly. So I was totally stoked, you know, finished my traveling, went back to Belgium with my license in my hand. And, and it so happened that a friend of mine had this old glider that I don't know where he got it, but it turned out to be this.
Gavin McClurg (23:34.688)
I'm legit.
Koen (23:48.865)
LDK remember that brand LDK it's like a French brand or something which was like literally mattresses you know it almost looks like a parachute basically you know and these bright you know day-glue colors and all that thing is there was no serial tag on it there was no identification weight wise or anything on that glide it was like a prototype or something and worse of all it had it was
Gavin McClurg (23:58.329)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (24:09.646)
It's like buying a glider off eBay back in the day. mean, eBay didn't exist back then. he's just, yeah, sweet. Here we go.
Koen (24:15.317)
Pretty much, just gave it to me, he's like, you can use this one, I'm like, great, I'm ready for Latin America, I'm ready for the endies with this thing. So the thing is the glider had this, I mean, it was kind of ahead of its time because like I said, it was a prototype and then it had this rod in the leading edge, only that now the rods run like this. At that time, there were two rods keeping the leading edge open, sort of like that, over the span of the whole wing.
It was a bitch to get that, pull it up and get it in the backpack and all that. I'm like, man, I'm just gonna cut that out. I thought somebody like retrofitted that in there, you know, out of insecurity or something, you know, I'm like, that's bullshit. I'm just gonna cut that out, took the rods out. Not a good idea. So I actually took that glider to the Pyrenees with a friend and flew it, you know, it was raining, I even flew it in the rain. I don't know how that thing kept open, you know, partly because there was no turbulence, but did a couple of sled rides with it and then.
Next, I wasn't done yet with traveling, after a couple of months of working and saving up some money, I went back to Latin America with the idea of doing some flying in Colombia and Ecuador. And also I'd met my girlfriend at the time, which then became my wife. She's Colombian. So I kind of tried to combine both things, becoming a pilot and becoming a boyfriend, which didn't go that well together in hindsight. But so here I am.
Gavin McClurg (25:35.95)
.
Gavin McClurg (25:39.918)
oil and water.
Koen (25:42.197)
Sort of, yeah. It was difficult in many ways. so I ended up in, chasing the weather in Colombia. Just ended up in the wrong places at the wrong time with rain, getting frustrated, you know. So let's go to Cali. All right, Cali. know, Peter Chinche was at the time the big site, know, and a great place. I hiked up that mountain like 20 times. This is 98th. End of 98th.
Gavin McClurg (25:58.893)
And now what year are we?
Gavin McClurg (26:03.086)
Oh, you're still early. Okay, so it's still fully, it's fully happening there even then. I didn't know that.
Koen (26:08.679)
Water was not that much going on yet, like, Roldaneux, I don't know if Roldaneux was already a thing at that time, but the Pieticincia was definitely, I mean, it was mostly locals, I can't remember seeing any foreigners there, but the locals had their club going and hang gliders were still there and all that, and it was good conditions. The thing is, you know, the first so many flights, there was no thermals or nothing, it was just kind of like sled rides, and I would just never make the LZ, my glider didn't have a good glide ratio, and I would always have to land in this dry river. People are like, why don't you land in the LZ? I'm like, I don't know, I just can't make it there, you know?
So anyway, so this one day there was finally some thermal activity which I didn't know how to recognize that except for that my glider folded up in the air. So that was my indication of turbulence, you know. So and the worst thing of all is I thought I didn't have money for a reserve parachute. So I was flying without a reserve parachute also which of course. So I'm flying straight out. I'm not literally doing anything and all I want is a freaking glider collapses like 80 % and I'm like...
Gavin McClurg (26:56.27)
Of course he works.
Koen (27:05.691)
Immediately start to you know like one turn two turn around it opens back up like holy crap. What was that? You know so like I mean I was gonna go to land anyway that was my flight plan anyway so I'll keep flying the same thing happens again it collapses the second time and freaking Reopens by itself and I managed to safely land and all that a lot is are you crazy? are you doing? I'm like I'm not doing anything I don't know that you know they kind of glider and they noticed that the leading edge had like this Point to it which without those rods were like the basic component of the safety of that glider
It was clearly not meant to be flown without those rods. yeah, and that's where the girlfriend thing didn't work out because that was the first time my girlfriend, Monica, actually joined me on the hill and she saw me dropping out of the sky. People were like, call an ambulance, this guy's gonna die, this and that. So it was not a good experience for her to, know, and I understand ever since she's not been a great fan of flying and that's been a problem for sure in many ways. No.
Gavin McClurg (27:54.19)
Whoa.
Gavin McClurg (27:59.855)
Are you guys still together? Oh, I was gonna say.
Koen (28:02.613)
Well, we actually, we've been together for 25 years and we ended up deciding that we'd better split our ways. We've done that in peace and good harmony. Just recently, beginning of this year actually. And it was not because of paragliding. mean, I'm sure paragliding has not helped, but it's just a personality thing. It's unrelated, know, it's just button heads all the time.
Gavin McClurg (28:10.51)
just recently.
Gavin McClurg (28:17.229)
Right.
Gavin McClurg (28:21.23)
But that's amazing. mean, she saw you damn your kill yourself and stuck with you for all these years.
Koen (28:25.597)
Well, unfortunately that was only the first time of two times that happened. I evidently discarded that glider, got myself a flight design. It was probably also pretty rotten. I eventually ended up flying it in Crisita, in Ecuador in the coast.
And at the end it was so poor as that I would pull big ears and it would automatically go in a parachute. It was like it wouldn't fly anymore. So I had to get rid of that glider also. at 90 hours of flying, I actually ended up changing to like a DHV-2 tree glider at the time, which would be like an END right now, which was also a very stupid move at the time. I mean, I loved the glider, had a great time with it and all that until things didn't go that great, which inevitably happens when you fly a glider over your level, right?
Gavin McClurg (29:02.744)
Yeah, indeed.
Koen (29:15.765)
Still, I still hadn't had the smart idea of buying a reserve. I was still trusting things were going to go good without a reserve. So now I'm back in Europe, know, my wife's with me again, you know, we're in the Vosges, know, the Vosges, the mountains in the northern part of France, which are the closest mountain to Belgium. And it's an excellent day. I wasn't really into AXEA at the time. I was just into maximizing airtime. So I didn't want to go to AXEA because the risk of bombing out was too big. And as I didn't get much airtime, I just wanted to have hours and hours of flying.
not distance didn't interest me much at the time, know. So I'm stinking high, I've been flying for three hours, four hours, whatever. I'm like, I gotta go land, but I got like, know, 6,000 feet to work with. Let's do something here, let's try something. So I started doing like the biggest wing overs I'd ever done before. And one of them, I just way shifted wrong or wrong input and my whole inside of the wing collapsed. And before long, the glider was all around me, all over the place, left, right, boom, you know, I'm trying to control it. The more I do, the worse it gets, know. Fortunately, I never got twisted around or anything.
But I pretty much dropped, I'd say like probably three, 4,000 meters out of the sky before it opened up. And I'm not gonna like, you know, take credit for that because the glider did it by itself, you know? But same situation, probably there was probably just five seconds I didn't do anything and it, you know, started flying again. But yeah, same thing, you know, I landed and my wife saw it happen. She came at me and I think she slapped me in the face or something, you know? So, you know, she was like just because she's like, you know, what the hell.
Gavin McClurg (30:18.638)
Mm.
Gavin McClurg (30:23.596)
Right. You just, you finally stop messing with it and it's straightened itself out.
Gavin McClurg (30:42.126)
Stop trying to kill yourself.
Koen (30:42.727)
Yeah, and then, well then I had to make two promises and I mean by then I'd learned my lesson, know, then first thing I did is buy a reserve right away, that was a smart decision of course, you know, the stupidest thing I've ever done was to fly without a reserve, very stupid. And then I did an SIV shortly after also, which was also, you know, that took me to the next level. then, I mean, SIVs have always been a huge proponent of them. I think actually they should be mandatory for anything like P3 and up or at least P4 because
I you don't know what kind of you know, I see all these people flying two-liners, even C's, you know, that, I mean, I'm not judging anybody's skill level or anything, but you know, you don't know what you have until things go wrong, you know, in terms of a glider, you know, and I've experienced that in a few situations where you can fly, anybody can fly even a competition glider in the right condition. I mean, people do it in Holland on the coast, know, people with no experiences are flying Enzo's on the dunes and it's all fine because nothing happens.
Gavin McClurg (31:11.404)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (31:22.606)
Yeah.
Koen (31:36.009)
But when that thing goes out of control, that's when you know what you got in your hands, you know, and that's also when you're starting to get, you know, confronted with your lack of skills if you don't have the proper skills to handle a situation like that. So, yeah, those were.
Gavin McClurg (31:51.791)
Yeah, it can go sideways quick on those high aspect wings for sure. I mean, think also SIV instruction has gotten so good. It's not cowboy anymore. There's great instructors. There's different instructors out there and different approaches. I think for the most part, those who are doing it are doing a pretty good job.
Koen (32:04.575)
Great.
Koen (32:16.031)
yeah i don't think you can call yourself a serious pilot if at some point you know the earlier the better and multiple times you don't choose to do an SIV you can say it's a bunch of money this and that well you know dying or hurting yourself is even more money you know so it's not a money thing it should be a basic requirement some people are like i don't need to do an SIV you know i think that's
Gavin McClurg (32:29.026)
Yeah...
Koen (32:35.571)
that's fear talking, know, people are scared of doing false solves, they're scared of stuff and it's logical, it's not the first time you do them, it's not a fun sensation to feel your wing fall backwards and you fall backwards and everything goes to crap and maybe get twisted around and so that, but you know, you're flying a glider that can collapse if you don't know what's gonna happen once that and it's gonna happen sooner or later unless you choose to fly only in evening conditions or this or that and there's people that do that and it's fine but still even then you don't know when something's gonna happen where all at once some evening wind picks up or
or the wind shifts and now you're in a turbulent zone or you get pushed back or you know, there's always something that can happen. Right?
Gavin McClurg (33:09.038)
I mean, it's inevitable. you fly XC, it's inevitable you're going to get into a place that you don't want to be. It's just it's not if, it's when. Well, before we move on to jail stuff and towing and private property, that's a great story too. Or even just before we move on, your approach early on mirrors many in that.
Koen (33:15.893)
All right.
Koen (33:26.995)
you
Gavin McClurg (33:33.886)
era, there wasn't a ton of instruction, there wasn't a ton, but it sounded like, you know, your kind of auto approach or independent approach, solo approach. Obviously, that's personality driven, but was it more personality or, you know, ego or was it just lack of resources?
Koen (33:54.985)
It was, I would say that mostly a lack of resources and also just situational. I you know, I'd spend all my money on traveling and then I spend all my money on that, you know, flight design and the other, I wasn't, you know, I didn't have an excess of money at the time. And also there was just not that much, like most of my flying has been always in Latin America. And Latin America was, if you talk about cowboy land, that, mean, there was no controls or no, you know, there was hardly anything going on, you know, no schools or anything. So I just kind of went with the flow and.
took my opportunities as they came along, just learning as I went along, not because I didn't want any instruction, but just because I wasn't in France or Switzerland or where the schools are, and I didn't have the money to pay 1500 euros or something for a week long course or something. Which honestly, if I did everything all over again, I would do several things differently. I would definitely buy reserve right at once.
Gavin McClurg (34:35.383)
Yeah.
Koen (34:49.553)
you know and don't get don't go to the indy lighter after ninety hours of flight i was also not a smart movie you know and just instruction is good instruction i mean it's worth working even if you don't have the money to save up instead of buying a new way you know get a get an s i v or an instruction course because i mean i feel the same thing right now i've always liked acro also you know on fifty fifty to me right now more seventy five exceeded
25 acro as I get older, I'm not having those great goals anymore in acro, but I love acro and also as a means to stay current in terms of skills. But my acro, I mean, I've done one acro introduction course, maybe 2013 or something with Dan Lowe, Conor out west somewhere. And it was great. learned a bunch, but all the rest I've learned by myself. And like, I've been trying to learn the infinite tumble for the last three years or something. And I'm stuck. Like I don't get certain past points.
Gavin McClurg (35:34.028)
You
Koen (35:45.141)
Part of it is fear, but the fear is also not not fear fear But just the fact that I know that I don't feel like I have the actual technique. I don't have all the building blocks Sometimes I have a tendency and that's personality to run while when I can't even walk yet, you know and that's And an acro especially in all disciplines, but especially in acro if you do that, you know You're just you know, I help you progress, you know I have another friend in our our toe club who's got the opportunity more time and resources to actually do like a full month of
you know coaching in Turkey twice a year. I his progress I mean you know when we started together he was just doing like sets and whatever now he's actually nailed the infinite and all that so he's way going past me in terms of skills because he's like persistent and very meticulous and just repeating the same thing over and over and over again until he's got it clear and then he moves on to the next thing. I'm like I've done stuff where I don't even know how I did it like this joker port whatever you know.
I'm feeling intuition, I'm going in this asymmetric or red mix, I'm like, I'm gonna do an opposite, this is gonna work. And I'm like, just pulling on the other side and my glider, there's a helico underneath me and like, then afterwards I had to look up what kind of maneuver that was because I didn't know what I did, know? Stuff like that. So, you know, yeah, I kissed my glider a few times in the air and stuff like that. And I wouldn't recommend it. I mean, it's my style, but I think you can advance much quicker and safer with proper coaching. That would be my lesson learned, you know, out of all this.
Yeah, of course. So what brought you to the States? What is your work, by the way? What do do?
Koen (37:18.005)
I'm in sales, I'm a sales guy, so I'm traveling sales guy. And that's what brought me to the States. I was working for a company in Belgium. I was doing export sales to Latin America. So I got the job, I actually studied law. And then when I finished law, I realized I didn't want to do law the rest of my life. I like traveling, I'm good with languages, so I figured, well, sales will take me traveling. They can pay my tickets to go flying in different places. That sounds like a good setup. So I got into sales and actually liked it because I do like
to deal with people, love languages, I love culture, I love traveling, and I love Latin America. And there's flying places all over the continent, so that helped also in terms of keeping me motivated after all these years. in 01, the company I worked for at the time had a merger with another company and we had headquarters here in Charlotte, near Charlotte in North Carolina, which is why I moved here, just to be closer to my market in Latin America, same time zone and all that.
So yeah, I I hadn't planned on that. I was always dreaming of moving to Brazil or Mexico or someplace. And I kind of thought this was going to be like a stopover, short stopover, and then move on further south. that didn't happen for several reasons. We ended up having kids. And then, you know, once you have kids, you've got to not think about yourself just anymore, but about the consequences of living in Brazil or Mexico and, you know, trying to provide the best environment for them to grow up. So we ended up staying here. And it's been great. It's been 20, you know, 24 years now that we live in the Carolinas.
Apart from the flying, which is really frustrating around here, it's a good place, a healthy place to live and grow a family.
Gavin McClurg (38:46.126)
Oh really? Well you've been there a long time.
Gavin McClurg (38:55.436)
Yeah, I've heard Charlotte's a great town. It's a fantastic place. Good food. What's the towing you set up there? And then how did you have some run-ins with the law?
Koen (38:58.442)
Mm-hmm.
Koen (39:07.049)
well those are two different smaller actually so the rather than a lot came from the fact that it does just not a lot of flying places around here in carolina's and it's always very delicate we actually just happened to put the loose tree sites and over the past year one of them most frequent sites that have been extremely frustrating but it's always been like that you know it's always been hard it's always private you know property where you have to have permission and even then it's hard to keep it once you have it
So I've always been searching Google Earth, trying to figure out if there was any other places we could go explore and fly. I spent a lot of years putting a lot of energy and time in both exploring my laptop and then going out and checking these places out and pretty much banditoing off of those sites. I've got a whole list of sites that I've tried out like that. Right? Yeah, yeah.
Gavin McClurg (39:54.127)
Those were in air quotes, folks, that are listening. Sights with air quotes.
Koen (40:00.405)
So that actually did create a couple of problems here and there. One was where I discovered this place in Triang North Carolina and there's a beautiful beautiful grass fields that I found was perfectly launchable in the perfect wind direction. I was so stoked I couldn't contain myself. I just went there and launched off of it and had an exit flight and went back and did that like, I don't know, five times.
had like a 80, 90 kilometer cross country flight, never had a sled ride, it was always right on. So I'm like, I started to get so excited that I contacted those people, homeowners associations, there's like three of them involved in the same mountain. I didn't know how complicated they were at the time yet, so I thought they would share my enthusiasm about how great this flight is just for flying, you so I sent them a letter like, this place is like magic, you know, for flying would be fantastic, we can fly to records here and do tandem flights and this and that, they're like, no, thank you.
They sent me a letter with the lawyer basically telling me was not welcome and please do not come back. yeah, so mean, either way I would have approached it, there was no way we would have gotten access there anyway. But I still felt I was absolutely certain that a North Carolina record could have been flown from there, would be flown from there. So I had that in the back of my mind and I was on the lookout for a good day with a good forecast to give that one last shot, even after getting that letter. I'm a little bit persistent sometimes, maybe in inappropriate way.
Gavin McClurg (41:00.522)
Wow, weird.
Koen (41:24.053)
I would even admit, but, and I had made contact with a guy who had like a house that was kind of abandoned and in bad shape right on top of the ridge. I didn't have the money to buy such a house, but I maintained a conversation just in case he was ever gonna sell it or something. So I hiked, I rode up with my car, dropped my stuff up in his backyard, then drove back down, hiked up the mountain so I would not leave my car in sight or anything like that. Put my gear together, you know, in the woods basically.
and then waited long enough to not risk sinking out and launch it too early but the problem is it's a bit of a cliff launch so I waited too long and the conditions turned out too strong and now the place right on the road which is technically public land where I was hoping to launch from was not launchable, was turbulent, was rotor and I couldn't get my glider up so I had to go on the grass field which is you know the private property, the HOA
Gavin McClurg (42:12.738)
the other people's property.
Koen (42:14.173)
And even then I couldn't get my glider up with bad cycles, it was turbulent. mean, I tried a couple of times, I went to crap and by then I've been there for 15, 20 minutes and now a guy pulls up right in front of me on the road where I had to run over and cross in order to get airborne. And I first thought he was just going to look at me and thought it was pretty cool. But when I actually started running and to try to launch, he drove his car right in front of me. So I had to stop and then he's like, stop holding, you know, I've called the cops, know, you're trespassing again. We told you not to and this and that. So.
effectively before long a couple of you know police vehicles came up and there's soon enough is like fifteen police around me all this and that and they forget handgun they even handcuffed me and then took me down and then and then you know this is a little jail literally is like you know ten feet by ten feet it literally is like from a movie or something you know this little little town in the middle of nowhere and i'll get literally handcuffed to the bench and i don't know what they thought the risk was i was going to run away or fly away from there or something so they had me but i mean
Gavin McClurg (42:51.105)
Whoa.
Jeez.
Koen (43:11.209)
they were like yeah these people on the hill there they're gonna like you know they've been there forever and they don't want nobody to come in there and mess with them and this and that and they were very sympathetic to me but i did have to show up in court for that one and pay the fine for trespassing you know and and that was the first time that was not the first time that i got convicted for trespassing once was with green peas that i did like a anti-carbon you know they were building a duke energy here was going to build another carbon fueled
electricity plant and I joined some people to protest against that. We literally crossed the line, the property line of Duke Energy's headquarters in order to hand over a letter asking not to and this and that. And I got, you know, I basically also got arrested that night for that. And then there was another situation. Yeah, yeah, I've had my years of, you know, I'm still trying to, know, yeah, yeah.
Gavin McClurg (43:56.415)
Good for you. I like that one. That's a good one. Activism.
Koen (44:03.285)
but there's not a situation so that does not to but between there is yet another one and then we get back to the towing because now i'm like i found this lake like an hour south from my house in south carolina and it looked like perfect this huge grass field and somebody built this for paragliding it's fantastic let's go try it out i convinced my buddies to go on a sunday morning when i assumed everybody was in church and there would be no one there we didn't read any of this
fine printer anything around that later was public signs that was like this is not read at inches go for it i don't know why my friends always follow me you know but i did it and one guy had was the owner of the boat and all that and yeah exactly yeah well exactly and it was fantastic i mean you know so those need to meet with his wife just three of us you he did it is the owner of the boat and was right also piloting
Gavin McClurg (44:39.726)
because of the stoke, man. God, I'd follow you too. He is fired up. We gotta go see what happens.
Koen (44:56.671)
So I did one flight and it was magic, was epic. I mean, I got high through a bunch of acro, landed right there, let's do another one, all right. And then the third one, we already started kind of intuitively feeling like we were pushing it, but I'm like, man, it's just so perfect, let's do one more. We should have just gotten out of there. But anyway, I did one more. And by the time I landed, some guy came up with a pickup truck, this dude, you know, I'm just warning you, but the cops are on their way and security's on their way, you're in trouble. So I don't know why he said that because there was no time to get away anyway.
Within five minutes effectively, the local security was there with like an AK-47 or whatever and I was gonna be friendly, know, took my helmet off, hey, wanted to give a hand. They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, there, don't move, you know. They didn't even allow me to fold my glider or anything. Like, wait, the sheriff's on their way, police department's on their way, you you guys are trespassing, this is a nuclear plant right here, this is off limits, you you guys can't be here, this and that. Like, oh, we didn't know that. Actually, the worst part of all was that my bailout in case a line would break or something,
was actually right next to this nuclear plant. if I would have had a line break, I would have gone like and landed right near this nuclear plant, which they might have shot me out of the air probably, I don't know, because I mean, they had one nuclear reactor and there was a second one in construction. And I had a GoPro on my helmet. turns out exactly it's a cooling lake. Yeah. So there was actually no boating allowed on that lake. So.
Gavin McClurg (46:10.702)
Is the lake being used for cooling or something?
Koen (46:18.229)
So yeah, so that was, and then meanwhile, you know, my buddy Dimitri, who was still in a boat waiting, he came up and like, oh, is everything okay? And then the other guy, you two stop, stay there and wait. So now he's also involved in legal problems, you know. Before long, you know, there's like a couple of police vehicles come up. There's like 30 police officers around us. This and that, Department of Natural Resources is there, there's security from the plants there. I mean, there's like 50 people around us. And it's like, you know.
And I had the GoPro, so they must have looked up my record and saw my protesting with Greenpeace, so they're like, this guy is probably like an eco-terrorist or something, maybe he's, or they thought we were spies or something. Yeah, so they confiscated my GoPro and this and that. And then we had to go to court for that one too, which was actually real funny because again, a little small town in the middle of nowhere in South Carolina, backdoor negotiating basic, because we're there and...
Gavin McClurg (46:54.446)
man, that didn't help, yeah.
Koen (47:13.151)
the judge or the police officer, I can't remember what it was, know, he's like, all right, well, that's going to be like 400 bucks each or something. I'm like, what? know, dude, you said if we showed up in person that it was going to be a small fine, and that's not a small fine, man. mean, so he's like, just wait a minute. And he went back in the back office and talks with another guy or something and then comes back. He's like, how about $130? Does that work for you guys? I'm like, yeah, we'll take that, you know? So he negotiated our fine there, which was kind of unusual. know, it was kind of funny.
But we got off with $130 a fine each.
Gavin McClurg (47:43.082)
Do you get, does that go on your record? Is it what trespassing or what would you get nailed with?
Koen (47:46.909)
man i got more records in the cia i'm kidding i'm kidding now i don't know i honestly don't know i think the other one went on my record because that was a second degree trespassing the one of the mountaintop you know that one because i got a formal warning is why it was a second degree yeah yeah now i'm formally a serial trespasser now so
Gavin McClurg (48:00.93)
Yeah.
I didn't know there was degrees in trespassing. Wow.
Koen (48:09.461)
But ever since I've kind of stepped away from exploring places where I'm not supposed to be, I've kind had my share of that. I'll leave it to someone else, to the newer generation. But the funniest thing of all is, like I said, can be pretty persistent and my friends can be pretty crazy and following me because when we were there, the guys at the Department of Natural Resources...
Gavin McClurg (48:14.304)
Koen (48:31.669)
I asked him, look, you understand this part of the lake here is like the cooling area and the nuclear plant and this and that, but I've scouted some other areas on the opposite side of the lake, like, if we go there, would that be fine? And these guys were like, yeah, yeah, as long as you don't come on this side of the lake, you're right. And so I convinced Demetri and some other pilot, pilot, to come with me some other Sunday after that court was settled and all that. And somehow they decided to come with me and we were like...
Gavin McClurg (48:45.847)
Koen (48:59.605)
We were really efficient in putting the boat in the water. Again, Sunday morning, we there, we dropped the boat off. Within 15 minutes, we were putting along on the water. And all of a sudden, a boat comes at us and some guy goes, like, Cohen? I'm like, yeah. Some guy in like in a suit. I'm like, in a suit, in a boat, on a Sunday morning, waiting for me? This is really strange. So he was like...
I don't know, police or whatever and he's like, dude, I thought we were clear last time we talked. I'm like, yeah, but the DNS guy said this and that. No, DNS guy don't matter. We told you not to come back here and you're not welcome and you guys need to leave. So I think they've been monitoring my phone messages or something because they were there when we got in the water. I mean, they could have not gotten there after us and gotten in the water and intercepted us halfway when we were going out. So they must have been...
Gavin McClurg (49:36.398)
This is our lake.
Koen (49:51.825)
Yeah, so I was on the radar there for a little while. I hope I'm not anymore, but I don't do stupid stuff like that anymore.
Gavin McClurg (49:55.072)
Wow.
Well, now you're over 50. You gotta reign it in a little bit. Okay, before we move on, I'm gonna ask you about your goals. Your two goals before you turn 50, but that reminds me of when I was first learning, I got my license from Santa out of the point. And Chris Santa Croce, who has been on the show and everybody on this side of the pond knows about Santa, but he used to do these towing fly in slash.
Koen (50:08.671)
Mm-hmm.
Koen (50:15.583)
Got it.
Gavin McClurg (50:27.854)
SIV clinics, also kind of, what would they be called? Event Expose deals up on Sammamish Lake up by Tiger, know, big launch for us up in Washington. And he was driving his boat from Utah to Washington. And I was living in Hood River at the time with my girlfriend, Jodi. And he was just driving through and I mean, I was a 15 hour pilot.
Koen (50:36.447)
Right?
Gavin McClurg (50:53.742)
was brand new. And he had given me his DVD or CD or whatever it was back then to watch the SIV. So I had watched how to do SIV, but I had never done any SIV. And he calls me up, hey, I'm driving through the gorge. You want to do some brotos down on the Columbia River. So that's the event site for kite surfing and windsurfing. It's right there in Hood River. It's where everybody kitesurfing. And so.
Koen (51:07.605)
Mm-hmm.
Koen (51:19.198)
Right.
Gavin McClurg (51:21.294)
Yeah, that sounds awesome. So Jody and I jump in the car. We go down to the parking lot and we meet him. And he's already got the boat set up. He does all the towing by himself. So he's got the boat and the boat's in neutral, engines on. He's up on the event side, which is this grass site. It's perfect for towing. You're going to tow out on the river, so it's not a lake, but the river, it's Columbia River. It's pretty big. And I mean, I'm shaking in my boots. I haven't gotten any kind of an intro. He's just here.
Koen (51:43.061)
Right?
Gavin McClurg (51:50.383)
He hooks me up and you've seen the video? Yeah, OK, let's go. And just as he's going back to the boat, it wasn't a cop cop. It was kind of a security guard kind of guy. He comes down and he goes, hey, you can't do that here. And Santa goes, what are we doing?
Koen (51:50.633)
Go!
Gavin McClurg (52:10.03)
The guy goes, well, I don't know, but you can't do it. And Santa could just tell. He didn't actually know. The guy didn't know what we were doing, but he was just saying no. And so Santa goes, well, we're going to do it because you don't even know what we're doing. So he runs back to the boat and just starts speeding away. And I'm standing there in the forward position. I literally don't know. doesn't. mean.
Koen (52:18.505)
Right, right.
Gavin McClurg (52:31.17)
I think he did have me on radio. did have me on, but he's driving the boat. There's not somebody else sitting there. And I'm looking at Jody, who's standing right next to me going, what do I do? And she goes, I don't know. And as soon as starts, the tensioning up, she goes, run. And so I start running and get up in the air and I'm figuring it out. And now he's got me on radio, follow the boat and doing all the thing. But because we're on a river, you've got to do some turns. And so now he's instructing me and I'm kind of getting it. And I come off till.
And I start doing stuff, know, asymmetric collapse and frontal. And he's guiding me through all these things. And now I'm starting to get pretty low. And he comes on the radio and he goes, hey, so you might see that there's a whole bunch of cop cars back where we took off. And I'd seen all these cop cars with the sirens going, just one after another after another. Yeah, so go find somewhere else to land. I'm out of here. Wait, what? And he just speeds off.
up the river and now what do I do? And so instead of landing at the event site, I go land at the parking lot at McDonald's and I'm on the radio with Jody the whole time. Hey, come over to McDonald's, come over to McDonald's, pick me up. And she picks me up and we hightail it out of there. I mean, it felt like we were base jumping off something in Vegas, you know, and we got a ditch. I that was my first SIV experience ever. It was so awesome. It was so amazing. Yeah, you see all those cops, go somewhere else. I'm out of here.
Koen (53:52.765)
wow. Yeah, yeah, what?
Koen (53:58.809)
Well, you know, sometimes like they say in Mexico, sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than for permission, because you're never going to get the permission, know. Sometimes you just have to do it, right?
Gavin McClurg (54:03.604)
Exactly.
Exactly. Oh man, it was so fun. I just thought, man, you are such a stud. What is it? What are we doing? It was the perfect answer. He knew the guy that had no idea. OK, so you and I are the same age. A couple of years ago, you set a couple of goals for your 50th. What was that all about?
Koen (54:13.909)
That's a crazy story, yeah. That's funny.
Koen (54:23.989)
Yeah, yeah, so, you know, since maybe 2012, 2013 or something, I've been starting to go to the North East and Brazil because I did get eventually fascinated by long distance flying and that was evidently the place to be. It was actually also kind of crazy because the first time I went there, my best flight was like 120, 130 kilometer flight or something and I went to Quixada. You know, this must have been 2013 or something like that or 14 maybe. so, you know.
Same thing, I had really informed myself too well, you know, I was pretty good at ground handling and I was pretty confident of my launching skills and all that. I got there by myself, midday conditions, the first day I arrived I'm like, I'm just gonna go to launch with my rental car and see how conditions are, there's nobody there. I'm like, it's pretty strong but it looks perfect, know, cumulus all over the place. I'm like, I'm just gonna launch. So I launched, you know, my launch bit all safe and all good and I get up and sky out and...
and now I'm flying like, I don't know, 40, 50 kilometers until I decide to land just to not make it too far because I didn't know where I was going or anything. And I had a retrieved driver hired for the next day, so it was just like a warm-up round. But I fell in with the Secton from then right away. mean, the people just did incredible potential for flying, the conditions. I love strong, radical missions. As long as you go up and far, it's all good for me. So I had a couple of good flights, made my first 200-plus, I don't know how much, 240-kilometer flight or something on that trip.
double my previous distance. And then I've just, think I've gone back like every year since except for the last few years or something. So, and each time I went up and proved my personal best, from 240, it went to 320 and through 60 and 380. And so, well, evidently, once you start getting into that game, you started to realize if you can fly 300, you can fly 400. It's just a matter of planning your day a little better, launching a little earlier, flying a little faster, stuff like that.
and so my goal one of the two goals i had before i was turned out there if he was to fly four hundred kilometers which i thought was now four hundred you know it's not that special anymore people flying you know that it's six and now so important is still it's still sort of a select club three others not reference anymore you don't even mention it to anybody else is not an unless it's a triangle but other four hundred i mean you know and you know people go like always down if i was going to be easy but northeastern brazil is not easy at all it's very hard
Gavin McClurg (56:31.256)
Right?
Koen (56:41.685)
for multiple reasons. First of all, because you launch super early, evidently because you want to take every possible flying hour of the day to maximize your potential distance. But that also means in the morning the thermals are still light, there's a lot of winds, the thermals are blown apart, you're not getting real high, the terrain's unforgiving, you you've got a couple places where, I mean, I don't know, you've flown in the Sauternes, not sure which places you've been.
Gavin McClurg (57:04.718)
Tosima is the only place I've really, I mean, I ended up, I finally got out of Tosima and it's just vicious, man, it's so tough, but I finally got out and flew to Qixida, so, which was almost 400, it wasn't 400, it was 380 or something, and then, but that put me at Qixida, and so the rest of the trip I just stayed at Qixida because it was so much easier, but I mean, Tosima's brutal, God.
Koen (57:11.913)
The steam is the hardest of all. Nice.
Koen (57:19.081)
Nice.
Koen (57:23.027)
Right, right.
I got a similar story. flew from Tosima once also and actually I went there twice because the first time I didn't get one night flight at all. was cross conditions and like you say super low and mean 80 was the best I did on my first trip to Tosima and then you have to sit around for multiple days because it's blown out. And it's, yeah.
Gavin McClurg (57:41.454)
I've it so hard.
and a hard place to sit around. I don't know what it's like now, but I was down there with the guys. I was by myself, was with Saladini was there and Nacimento. And they had broken the record the year before. This was before they started towing at Tosima. It was still just purely foot launch. That was 2016, I think. he set the record. Didn't he do it? I mean, a number of records, but the big one was 2016. So I think I was down there in 2017.
Koen (57:53.034)
Well...
Koen (57:58.568)
What year was that?
Gavin McClurg (58:11.95)
And I'd showed up by myself, and those guys were there. And they had said, last year we were here for 37 days, and we got the one record. by a week in, the forecasting is ridiculous. There isn't any. And so you go out there sunup or before sunup every day, and nine days out of 10, I was back at the hotel by eight. Either we couldn't launch because it was way too strong, or you'd fly.
Koen (58:12.447)
Okay.
Koen (58:16.469)
Ahem.
Koen (58:25.417)
Right now.
Koen (58:34.407)
Yeah, Blown out.
Ahem. Ahem.
Gavin McClurg (58:40.302)
5K and bomb out, because you have to go over that plateau that's 40K, and it's hot. And then Nasi Miento hit a fence and screwed up his arm. And they were only there a few days, and they just said, we can't handle it this year. We're going home. But I mean, I'd be there at 8 o'clock, and there was no internet. There's no AC. There's nothing to do. The food sucks. And you're just sitting there all day. I mean, it was a job. It was work. It was tough.
Koen (58:43.753)
Yeah, yeah.
Koen (59:06.368)
it'll drive you to drinking. No, it's not that fun of a place, but I was lucky. The next time I went back to the Seamen, because that was after, shortly after that big flight of days, I'm like, I gotta try this again. And I actually got there and the next day it was on. The conditions were great and I managed to do like a 280 kilometer flight or something, not huge, but I mean, I went past for two.
Gavin McClurg (59:08.288)
Yes, exactly. Yeah, there was a lot of drinking before noon.
Koen (59:30.773)
And then what I decided to do is I spent the night in and launched the next morning from Patu and then broke my personal record with it. And that was actually the site record at the time with a 382, I believe kilometer flight, which actually reopened, it reopened Patu as a potential site because I don't know if you know, but they created like this artificial lake, like, I don't know, maybe a hundred kilometers north of Patu and that kind of shut down the area for a while. But I guess this lake was now way more down the water level or so or smaller or something.
Gavin McClurg (59:31.246)
Okay.
Gavin McClurg (59:41.454)
I remember watching you do that.
Gavin McClurg (59:48.823)
Yeah.
Koen (59:58.589)
And I kinda, after I went and broke that side record, everybody started going back to P2, like seeing the potential again. They kinda thought P2 was done and then, because Qishida, Qishida is a pain in the ass to launch also, to see him or forget it. mean, you know, not only the conditions are real difficult to nail a good day, but then the launch, the launch is also brutal, you know, and dangerous. Qishida is also dangerous. P2 is also dangerous, but like of the tree, think P2 is the most, have you flown in P2?
Gavin McClurg (01:00:23.054)
I've never flown with two, no.
Koen (01:00:23.573)
I think it's the most enjoyable town to stay in and it's also the best launch of the three. And then the next day, so I flew 380 something all the way to like the border of Sierra and Piauí and then spent the night in Quixote. And then the third day I flew from Quixote and did another like 300 kilometer flight. So basically I flew 27 hours and three consecutive days and 925 kilometers. So then I was toast, know, and then I was finally tired after three days like that.
But yeah, so I've been going back year after year and then the next step evidently was the 400 kilometers, which I've probably done between 15 and 20 flights of over 300 kilometers over these years, always trying to hit the 400 and it would just never work out. And then the last day, I had one more day before I literally turned 50 and it was also the day I was flying back home. I nailed it. mean, and it was tough because I was...
Gavin McClurg (01:01:19.982)
And that was from Patu.
Koen (01:01:21.813)
No, this was from tow actually. This was from tow from Masu. Yeah, so this time I mixed, know, I a couple of days from Patu and then I went a couple of days from Masu, from towing. And yeah, I mean, and I...
Gavin McClurg (01:01:24.437)
okay.
Gavin McClurg (01:01:34.542)
Towing looks, I mean, I've never done it. I've never done the towing in Brazil, but that seems way more reasonable. I mean, these foot launches that you do down there, they're pretty frightening.
Koen (01:01:39.718)
yeah.
They are, they are, yeah. And the towing is super easy launching. mean, there's no drama, there's no scenes and all that. The only thing is, and the big advantage is once you're off tow, you're immediately in XC mode. It's not like in Quiches-d'Arpetteux where you gotta hang around the mount for an hour, sometimes two hours before you feel the conditions are good enough to go for it. And by then it's like eight, maybe 8.30 or something. So with the towing, you're off tow. There's no reason to hang around. You just have to go for it.
Gavin McClurg (01:02:10.03)
Cohen, is the reason you're spending so much time in Brazil rather than Texas is because it's just more consistent? You're just getting a lot more hours? Why aren't you chasing Texas?
Koen (01:02:17.845)
No, be honest with you, it's basically because of work. Like I said, I travel to Latin America and especially to Brazil. To Brazil, I travel maybe four times a year, sometimes five times, in function of how much business there is. So, you know, once I'm there, my ticket's paid for and all that, I can easily take a few days off. And the disadvantage of that is I only get, you know, a handful of days, four days, six days, whatever. I don't go for like 10 days, two weeks in a row, usually, also because of family obligations and this and that.
Gavin McClurg (01:02:35.18)
okay.
Koen (01:02:44.977)
But it's just convenient for me because I'm already there and I love the culture, know, retrieves. It's not cheap, but it's way cheaper than I like in Texas. seems like, I've never been to Texas, but it seems like the logistics are a little harder. But I mean, it's on my list. I'd love to go to Texas. It's not like I don't want to go.
Gavin McClurg (01:02:58.968)
Nah, I would say the logistics are way easier. The big difference between Texas and Brazil was...
several big differences, one of the big ones is the roads in Texas are great. So, you know, that whole Brazil taken all night to get back, you you're back pretty quick. The roads are paved. You've only got the one little hiccup with the hill country, but even through there, it's pretty good. In my experience, I've only been once, you know, I went down there with Cody a years ago and we were trying to snap it, but it's just inconsistent. You know, it's not, you're not flying every day like you are in Brazil. Part of that inconsistency might have
Koen (01:03:07.882)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Koen (01:03:16.505)
yeah. Right, right.
Koen (01:03:31.732)
Right.
Gavin McClurg (01:03:36.725)
been that we were too picky. I think you really just got to go for it. there are a lot of days, just like a tessema, you just show up and it's blowing too hard. I think also, Sebastian proved that with good forecasting, you can show up and nail it. And I'm just too far away to do that. And I think that whole drought index is really important down there. It's got to be a really dry year. And it seems to be the
Koen (01:03:48.127)
Right.
Koen (01:03:58.441)
Right, yeah.
Gavin McClurg (01:04:05.934)
These days, things are dry around here. So probably getting pretty good. But yeah, it's just a huge commitment. mean, if you could, for me, it's a 30 hour drive. If you could show up, Donizetti, think, put a winch out there. If you could show up on a good forecast and do it, then I think it's got huge potential. But I don't know of anybody other than Sebastian that's figured that out.
Koen (01:04:27.253)
Sure.
Yeah, well, I Brazil, I would say it's definitely way more consistent. Like, Tassim is the exception, but Patu and Qixada, if you go in a season, and maybe all year, I've just haven't been there outside of the season, but for the big flights, let's say September, October, November, I mean, I think there's potential for flying a 300 kilometer flight from Patu or Qixada, like pretty much six days out of seven. I mean, I've seen it happen. Like each time I've been there, either I've done a 300 plus flight or somebody else did that day. know, I don't think there's, you know, there's the occasional blowing out there or whatever.
Gavin McClurg (01:04:50.178)
Yeah.
Koen (01:04:59.561)
But I mean, it's like flyable nearly every day. I'd say six days out of seven. And you don't have that in too many other days.
Gavin McClurg (01:05:03.566)
Yeah, and you see, that's not the case in Texas. I think it's the reverse of that. Yeah, so that's that's the big difference.
Koen (01:05:07.519)
Yeah, but at some point, mean, you learn, you learn like, know, initially I'm like, okay, you know, but now I'm at the point that I don't want to do another 350-kilometer flight. It's like, and because of what you said, I mean, the retrieve is brutal. You know, you land out freaking 6 PM or whatever, you know, if you're lucky, retrieve drivers there more or less at the same time. This guy has been driving for 12 hours also the whole time. He's, he's whole day, he's tired, you know, I don't, you know, so.
Gavin McClurg (01:05:29.868)
Yeah, I really felt like it was, I felt like it was pretty unsafe. What we participate in is not very safe, but I don't like that kind of unsafe, know, where I don't have any control. It's just, you know, the roads are tough, they're exhausted, there's a lot of animals. It's just, I don't know. That's just, it's...
Koen (01:05:42.473)
Well, we switched drivers.
Right. No, it's extremely tiring. The retrieve drive is way more tiring than the flying itself. I can fly 10 hours every day and not be tired of it. I mean, get to the hotel after, like you said, and then I got to take the steering wheel because the guy's fricking literally falling asleep, you know? So we switch drivers, and like you said, it's potholes, it's animals. It's like you can't go fast because any given moment there might be a fricking, you know, six feet diameter pothole in front of you. You know, so you get to the hotel at 12 o'clock, one o'clock in the morning.
uh... inevitably you want to fly the next day so you you got to charge your batteries get your stuff ready to go to sleep i i can't sleep so i'll sleep maybe one hour if i'm lucky and by four it's like peep peep peep peep time for breakfast let's go alright day after day day in day out you know you can only do that for so many days before you're trashed you know
Gavin McClurg (01:06:19.404)
Yeah, it's a job.
Gavin McClurg (01:06:24.962)
hahahaha
Gavin McClurg (01:06:30.242)
Well, you sound like you're uniquely wired for that. Your buddy that you flew with down in Valle, he said he just kept calling me. Just every day we were calling.
Koen (01:06:41.309)
Yeah, mean, honestly, yeah, I'm lucky in that, I mean, I keep up, you know, I do a lot of workout, a lot of cardio and all that. So I'm in physically in good shape. I can keep going. That's something that I just want to keep going. I mean, you know, if I'm in Mexico and it's flyable, I feel so bad sitting around not doing anything. mean, hell, I'm here for flying, you know. So it doesn't tire me more to be flying than it is to, you know, I don't know, do something else in town or something. So why would I not fly if it's flyable? And if I'm flying, I'm going to try to push to get the most out of it. And I'm not worried about retrieved because
I mean, especially in Mexico or even Colombia or Brazil, wherever you land, there's going to be somebody that gives you a ride or you can find an Uber. I mean, it's never been a problem. I've landed out all over the place in Vita Bravo. And like, as soon as you walk out of the woods, somebody actually literally stopped ahead and put my finger out, you had to go, hey, you want a ride? Like, yeah, sure, thanks. You know, it's so easy. So I'm not concerned about it. And I speak Spanish, so that helps a lot too. I can understand somebody who doesn't speak Spanish might be a little bit intimidated, you know, other than that, it's super easy. So yeah, I just go for it, man.
Gavin McClurg (01:07:28.91)
It's so easy there.
Gavin McClurg (01:07:40.142)
I love it. I love it. love it. Cohen, you're a treat, man. I love your... wait. Yeah, we got your second thing before 50.
Koen (01:07:40.147)
Anytime again?
Koen (01:07:44.087)
well, just wait there's a second goal. like I said, I've always liked Acro pretty much almost as much as XT flying and all that as any form of flying really. But in Acro I really wanted to nail the infinite tumble and I've been trying and trying and trying, know, true reserve a bunch of times trying, you know, and never nailed it. And then there was, I felt like I so close. I was like at 11 o'clock and I felt like I had to dial in, you know, the rhythm and all that. And I just hadn't pushed through because I felt I didn't feel 100 % secure.
And I felt like I needed one more session at the end of the season to get it done. And then the weather didn't cooperate and I didn't get it done. And then I was 50 and now I'm like, all right, yeah, I'm still working on it. But I'm like, if I can do it, fine. If not, maybe one day I'll do some coaching to get there or something.
Gavin McClurg (01:08:25.838)
you don't have that 50 motivator now, so it's been backed off a little bit, the design.
Koen (01:08:32.437)
Right, well I'll still try for a big flight before my 60 maybe, 500 might be a little ambitious but you know I want to reconfirm the 400 kilometers in terms of XC that would be fun. But I crew, I'm just having fun and we hadn't touched on that yet but I've put a toke up together and that was one consequence of trying to find these places to fly in the Carolinas and realizing that even with places to fly the climate here would just never cooperate, it's just so hard.
And then if it does, you know, you don't have a tree even here. It is really hard to get back from where you launched from. There's just no public transportation, no Uber, no nothing. So I started realizing, man, if you want to be a good pilot here, you either have to travel or we got to put a, a tow club together, you know, and I figured if we have a tow club and we can, we can be on the lake where we also can go XC if the conditions turn out to be great that day. We got full flexibility. We'll never have a lost weekend. We'll just go.
If it's not good for XC, we'll be doing SIV and ICR and this and that. And all at once it turns on, we can just switch gear and take off and go fly XC. And the potential is huge. And miraculously, aren't a lot of pilots in the Carolinas, but I even drummed up some paramotor pilots and this and that. And somehow I got like 15 people together and convinced them to chip in 1500 bucks and put a club together like a nonprofit. This was in 2019.
We call it Toasis, a friend came up with his name Toasis, I thought it was fantastic name. The official name is Carolina Toe Club, that's our legal name. So the other idea I had was I've seen people toe and it always ends up being the same story. One guy is a toe operator and he knows how to operate it, nobody else knows or wants to know how to do it and just shows up for toeing and then go back home and the guy on the winch never gets to toe and gets frustrated and within five times they're like, fuck this, I'm not doing this anymore.
Gavin McClurg (01:09:54.83)
a great day.
Gavin McClurg (01:09:58.596)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (01:10:13.752)
Right.
Gavin McClurg (01:10:17.038)
Yeah.
Koen (01:10:17.215)
So I figured if this club is gonna work, we're gonna have to do this in a way that everybody gets trained as an operator so that we can just take turns. And we're gonna store the boat right next to the lake so we find the storage, like the boat's like half a mile away from the lake. Everybody in the club is tech-operated, know, tech-rated. Actually operating the winch is easy part. There's not much operating once you're in the air. It's mostly the boat is the hardest part, you know, just adjusting the speed. You're the way you take your corners.
Gavin McClurg (01:10:24.558)
That's great.
Koen (01:10:42.715)
understanding how the winds doing higher up because you know hit a different layer all at once you get this 20-kilometer tailwind or something which can mess you up and get slack in the line. So it's been a tough road in terms of making it work but now we got it dialed in. We reduced the club because we had a lot of sitting ducks or what you call that people that are just never showing up and it just you know.
Gavin McClurg (01:10:42.894)
Sure.
Gavin McClurg (01:10:50.892)
Yep.
Koen (01:11:04.917)
I mean it's great that they were there to get it started. were fundamental in getting it started. But now we have a core group of people that are really interested in doing it and wanting to go out. So we're still not getting enough flying, but at least we have an opportunity where we can continue going. I got a couple of other buddies that are really stoked about Acro. And now I want to start exploring the XC potential there because I'm sure I can fly 200 kilometers from there someday if it's windy.
Gavin McClurg (01:11:13.518)
Cool.
Koen (01:11:32.265)
But we'll see, yeah, I'm really, honestly, you know, the 400 flight and all that is great, but I think my biggest accomplishment in paragliding is having started this towing club. First of all, because it opens up so many more possibilities, but also because, I mean, I do appreciate and love the community part of paragliding. We don't have a lot of that around here because everywhere that if somewhere else, we all live two, three hours apart. There's not really a core group that gets together and, you know.
And if we're gonna fly a mountain top, you know how it is. You you set up your gear, you're looking at the conditions, you're focused on what you're gonna do that day. You fly, you land, try to get back to your car, and then your wife's calling to get back home. You know, so there's not that much opportunity to hang around and have that community feeding. And with the tow club, you 100 % depend on these other guys. I mean, you're doing it together. You know, I'm towing, you towing, we tow each other up. You gotta trust each other. You know, you get to know people, their fears, their skills, their lack of skills in certain areas. You help each other and build up on each other's skills. So I...
Koen (01:12:26.313)
Yeah, I'll love it. mean, it's really, it's my baby.
Gavin McClurg (01:12:30.062)
Man, got the 20, I'm all fired up, man. I'm gonna go out and like attack in a mountain or something right now. You got the energy of a 20 year old, dude. I love it. Well, thanks for everything you do. Thanks for building the community out there. That's amazing. We've been struggling here with our community.
Koen (01:12:34.345)
Let's go, let's go.
Koen (01:12:46.195)
Hmm. I don't.
Gavin McClurg (01:12:50.296)
takes, but appreciate you, man. Appreciate you keeping the pedal down and sharing these incredible stories. Awesome, And I can't wait to fly with you again,
Koen (01:12:55.157)
Great.
Koen (01:13:01.651)
Me too, man. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Maybe Valle or hopefully before that somewhere else. I'd love it. Yeah. Thanks for having me on the show, Gavin. I really appreciate it. It's been fun talking with you.
Gavin McClurg (01:13:05.198)
before that.
Gavin McClurg (01:13:10.414)
been fun talking to you and I appreciate it. Cheers.
