Gavin talks with Alejandro Palmaz, a longtime Aspen paragliding pilot, tandem instructor, and school operator, about the mentors and characters who shaped his flying life back to the early 90’s. Robbie Whittal, Dick Jackson, Chuck Smith, Will Gadd, Todd Bibler, Cherie Silvera, Dave Bridges, Mitch McAleer…Alex recalls Aspen’s early paragliding scene, the sport’s technical evolution, the challenges of flying around busy airspace, and why experienced mentors matter for keeping new pilots safe.
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Palmaz left a culinary career that included work at a three-star Michelin restaurant in Paris and settled in Aspen in 1989; he began paragliding in 1993. Chuck Smith introduced Palmaz to tandem flying, while Dick Jackson, Jan Stensivold, and other Aspen pilots helped shape his early flying. Palmaz says he logged about 260 flights in his first season, often flying repeated laps and as many as four times in a winter day. He became Dick Jackson’s partner in Aspen Paragliding and bought him out in 2008; the operation now combines tandem flights with instruction. Aspen’s early scene included Red Bull events, visiting pilots, bold exhibition flying, and limited forecasting tools such as phone-in wind reports and chalkboards. Palmaz contrasts early cross-country milestones, such as flying the roughly 25 miles to Crested Butte, with modern performance and flights reaching 310K. Busy private-jet traffic and military training near Aspen make airspace awareness a growing safety concern; Palmaz says paraglider pilots may need better ways to be detected by aircraft. Palmaz’s first European flight was from the Aiguille du Midi near Chamonix, taken with only around 40 to 50 flights logged; his friend injured a knee during takeoff. He urges new pilots to seek experienced mentors, learn from their mistakes, and observe how they assess changing conditions. Palmaz says he would tell his younger self to enjoy every chance to fly and travel, and he hopes to pass the operation on to the next generation.
KEY FRAMEWORKS
Mentorship through experience, observation, and learning from other pilots’ mistakes
ACTION ITEMS
New pilots should seek out experienced mentors and ask questions about their decisions. Observe how seasoned pilots assess different conditions, not just what they do in the air. Treat paragliding as inherently dangerous and learn from the experience of pilots who have faced its risks. Stay alert to local airspace and aircraft traffic, especially around busy airports and military training areas.
SOUND BITES
“Literally watch what they do” “You’re lucky to be alive still.” “You’ll have a pretty fun life.”
CHAPTERS
00:00 How a chef found his way into Aspen paragliding 05:00 Starting out with Aspen’s early mentors 07:46 260 flights in a first season 10:31 Red Bull days, flying characters, and Aspen mayhem 14:26 Why sharing a first flight still matters 16:25 From phone-in wind reports to modern forecasting 21:05 A risky first European flight from the Aiguille du Midi 24:58 Wild flying memories and busy mountain airspace 34:34 The instructor clinic that brought legends together 38:51 Why mentorship is essential for pilot safety 42:23 Advice to a 50-hour pilot and passing it on
gavin (00:02.36)
Alex, it's great to have you on the show, man. We've been I've s going through my emails this morning and God you know you guys you and I have been bouncing back and forth about this one. I think I feel like I say this to everybody that comes on the show. Like thanks for finally doing this, but I appreciate you giving me some time as we f roll into fall and getting cooler here in the in the Rockies. But I'm excited to talk to you 'cause you've been at this a very long time. I almost think the
the theme of this one should be mentors. We were just talking before we started recording, one of our very good friends, Stefano, who I'm gonna see in a couple of days down at Topalpa at the at the S R S. Y you gave him his first flight, is that right? I mean, he's a he's won a World Cup. I mean that's awesome.
Alejandro Palmaz (00:44.396)
Like it yeah, one of his first tandems. yeah, we were we were down there flying, and I was there with this Swiss guy, Manu, and Manu took him for a flight and then his mom was like, All right, well you can you can take Estefano for a flight too that way 'cause he was starting he's he was chomping at the bit to get in the air. And so
gavin (01:11.154)
That's amazing. I mean look look what he's done since too. We were talking about his food and the culinary institute and you're you're a chef. You went you went to the CIA before you got into all this madness?
Alejandro Palmaz (01:14.57)
Yeah, no, now it's
Alejandro Palmaz (01:21.33)
Yeah, I did. I d I was I've been in the restaurant business since I was a little kid and you know, was able to get into the CIA and and work there and then eventually worked in Paris at a three star Michelin. So had a
had a stent there. So I was my real life was was in the restaurant business, but fortunately I got out of it and was able to make a living doing paragliding, which was something I hook, line and sink or got into right away. I mean Chuck Smith took me
gavin (01:57.597)
Yeah, and so how'd that how'd that happen? What was the what was the catalyst there and how did Aspen happen in your life?
Alejandro Palmaz (02:04.482)
Well, it basically was I I ended up seeing guys flying here like Dick Jackson and some of the old school guys, Chris Blatchley. there's a bunch of There's a handful of guys that were flying. And me and a buddy decided that we wanted to try it 'cause we had a couple of friends of ours that were doing it, Sean Grover.
and some other guys that started flying and then so we went and did a tandem chuck took me tandem very first tandem I looked at him and was like, dude, what are you doing the rest of the day? Cause I gotta learn how to do this. And so he he started teaching me right off the bat. Yeah. Yep. Chuck Smith.
gavin (02:49.34)
You talking Chuck Smith? man. You just said you just rattled off a whole bunch of n I mean, Dick Jackson I had on the show a couple years ago. We've of course lost poor Dick. That was a a huge loss for the community. But I was just talking to Chuck yesterday, you know, he's he's he retired here a couple of years ago and he's now working for the transportation department.
Alejandro Palmaz (02:59.689)
Yeah, yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (03:13.926)
no kidding, yeah. I I st I talked to Chuck quite a bit here and there about what's going on and you know, trying to keep these tandem operations afloat nowadays, you know, between all the insurance and all that stuff is is is definitely some some hurdles that we're trying to jump over.
gavin (03:15.312)
Yeah.
gavin (03:18.833)
Yeah.
gavin (03:25.138)
Sure.
gavin (03:34.94)
Did you have a connection to Aspen back or were you just rolling through and saw it or how what what was the what was the Aspen connection?
Alejandro Palmaz (03:43.983)
When I when I f after working in Paris, you know, that that really put a big kind of on my on my resume kind of put a a big star on it so that I could pretty much go wherever I I wanted to go to work. And so I decided well, I I love skiing, so when I was in France I would go ski
gavin (04:01.052)
Sure.
Alejandro Palmaz (04:09.43)
I would do these like cooking classes for students, like h university students. And and I would make enough money to be able to to basically take a couple of weeks and just go ski for a couple of weeks in the in the in the in the Alps. And then I started to see a little bit of paragliding there. And then when I was leaving France, I was like, shit, I'm just gonna go
you know, work in a restaurant in a ski resort. And so I picked Aspen because I figured that's the probably the best place I could make good money, and and and try to make a living. And so that's what I did. What was that? Eighty nine.
gavin (04:47.356)
Sure.
gavin (04:51.878)
What year was that?
What year was that?
So you been there since eighty nine? Wow, that's amazing. I mean you've seen
Alejandro Palmaz (05:00.363)
Yeah, yeah.
And so that was yeah, so that's when paragliding really started here, with Dick. And then right when the wings started becoming I got into it in ninety-three. So when I started flying, they had just started to become, you know, they weren't square nines anymore.
gavin (05:09.244)
Sure.
Alejandro Palmaz (05:27.094)
they they were more elliptical shapes, so it was a a space is what I flew in, a Dell space back in the day. Was my first glider. So
gavin (05:34.481)
Yeah.
And did you did you start with hang gliding or was there hang gliding mixed in or did you just straight to P G?
Alejandro Palmaz (05:44.635)
no, no, I didn't do any hand gliding before that. well my b well Martin, my brother, he was in Europe when he was like sixteen with my with my parents.
And he did a hand gliding lesson and ended up stalling it and breaking both his wrists. So hang gliding was like taboo in my house because of that incident. And so my mom was like, none of you can go none of you can hand glide any nobody's hand gliding anything. And so I picked up paragliding because wasn't hand gliding. So yes.
gavin (06:10.406)
Right, yeah.
gavin (06:24.874)
Right. It was still flying. And so so Dick was your was it Dick, Chuck, h all of Who who were your mentors back in the day? How did you, you know, figure out how to not die?
Alejandro Palmaz (06:27.135)
Yeah, as long as I
Alejandro Palmaz (06:31.405)
Yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (06:37.318)
Wells Dick Chuck, you know, first first mo mostly Chuck was helping me get going. And then obviously Dick was there also, and then Jan Stensivold was was also part of the the Aspen Paragliding team. he was one of the founders with Dick. And then you know, there was dave bridges eventually came rolling through and
gavin (07:04.006)
Yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (07:04.75)
you know, Othar, Lawrence and and Chris were, you know, just getting into it as well. And then the the big thing was the Red Bull comp that came through and, you know, kind of really started stuff. And I was just I was more of a wind dummy for the beginning of those those things, 'cause I I could go out there and fly and then
When it got good, then everybody else would take off. If they could see me getting up h getting up, then they were like, Okay, it's time to go.
gavin (07:35.023)
Yeah.
gavin (07:40.89)
And you know, give us give us a feel for, you know, what are what are people doing from Aspen back then? Is it tandems, is it sledders, is it sending it over the Rockies to you know, to Crested Butte? What what are people doing?
Alejandro Palmaz (07:53.326)
Now back then it was, you know, just I mean for me it was just cranking sledders or whatever we we could to get in the air. I mean that first season I think I did 260 flights. And so I was doing l I was just doing laps and in the wintertime I would get four four flights in a day.
Just early mornings. Just all the time. Just flying, flying.
gavin (08:26.023)
And you're still you're still working in a restaurant at night, you're still cooking at night to live, or or was this
Alejandro Palmaz (08:30.546)
No, no, no, no. As soon as as soon as I became partners with Dick in two thousand well, the year that Dave Bridges died, I was kinda helping Dick manage the the school while Dave was in Nepal. And then when he passed away, we I started to talk to Dick and to see if if I could become a partner with him.
And so we did. And then in two thousand and eight I I ended up buying out. yeah, so
gavin (09:03.173)
two thousand eight, okay. And and that and Aspen Paragliding, is that an instructional school as well as tandems or just tandems? What do you guys do?
Alejandro Palmaz (09:13.322)
It's it's both. It's instructional too. We don't we don't do a lot of instruction here now. because what what we had to do was we had to incorporate a lot of tandems so that the the pilot could learn because the first we don't have a training hill. So the first flight was off of Walsh's, which is three thousand feet. So, you know, that's a that's a big flight for your first solo.
and so we had to do you know we had to put people on on radio most of the flight so that they we could talk to them talk them in talk to them flying away from the hill just and it requires a lot of attention to obviously keep it safe so we started we start now during the off seasons we'll go to to Mac
gavin (10:00.903)
Yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (10:06.102)
in in western part of Colorado to to do some training there first, get their P twos and then bring up to the big mountain to fly off of Aspen. And then that's
gavin (10:18.599)
I mean Aspen y you know, it this was before my time, but there was you know I didn't get into it 'til two thousand four and I didn't really you know, I was running a boat around the world in those years, so I I didn't really move here and and fully participate you know, as a North American pilot or whatever.
until twenty eleven. So but I I I just hear these, you know, I've heard some crazy stories about one of the nationals there. Josh Cohn was, you know, a teenager and Will Gadd and Bill Belcourt's told me this story about Mitch McAleer at the bar and a pool scene. I mean there's just, you know, Aspen used to be this the Aspen, tell your eye, there was this mecca of
Alejandro Palmaz (10:50.473)
Yeah. Well yeah, well.
Alejandro Palmaz (11:02.779)
Yeah.
gavin (11:07.111)
you know, not only comps, you know, hang gliding comps and the r like you said, the Red Bull, the Red Bull events. you know, you don't you don't hear about it as much anymore because I th you know, i any of these big high mountain sites in the Rockies get a lot of weather and so I think, you know, things have just slid more to sites that are, I guess, quote unquote more reliable, but
I mean man, you guys must have seen some stuff back then in those days in the 'cause you know, Aspen's big terrain, big mountains and
Alejandro Palmaz (11:39.827)
It it was it was nuts.
It it was pretty impressive when those guys would start rolling in because we get, you know, during Red Bull, that was that was, you know, all those names that you're talking about, you know, a lot of them rolled through and would do tandems with us, you know. We would get Carrie Castle and I mean everybody you just name, they have at some point come and done some tandems with us.
You know, we had Josh here for a a couple of summers. We had Jesus, Miguel came and did some flights with us, you know. I mean, all those guys came through at some point to make a couple of bucks, you know, to s support the next travel, you know.
gavin (12:13.917)
Right.
gavin (12:23.366)
Yeah.
gavin (12:31.406)
Sure.
gavin (12:36.487)
W when I just rattled that off, d any di are there any kinda man, there was this w w this one time I saw I mean, I wasn't it Aspen where Mitch McAlliar was doing the loops right over the crowd and just like pulling up ten feet over their heads and stuff? I mean it'd be illegal these days.
Alejandro Palmaz (12:47.615)
Yeah.
Yeah, he was do yeah, he was doing double loops. And then when those boys couldn't fly, like Robbie Whittle and those guys, they would rent jeeps from the local, you know, a Avis or whatever and see if they could they could jump, you know, get him off off the ground.
Like they would go haul an ass in the backcountry and see if they and then, you know, Mitch, he he likes his guns, so they would play with those too. But yeah, when they weren't flying that, you know, I'm surprised the police weren't after him.
gavin (13:24.089)
yeah.
gavin (13:34.333)
They kept it pretty pinned, right?
Alejandro Palmaz (13:36.498)
Yeah, they but boy. But when they were out flying, they w they would do stuff and the Europeans like Urshari and those guys, when they would come from Switzerland, you know, they they they figured out how to fly here. I mean they they
They did stuff that none of us had ever seen, you know, which was which was impressive, you know, because it's not like you know, back in the day, you know, it was you would make a phone call to Grand Junction to get the winds aloft. And that's about all we did. You know, and they would write down the winds aloft on a chalkboard, and then that was it. You go out there and you go fly and see if it's any good.
gavin (14:23.795)
See what happened.
Alejandro Palmaz (14:25.301)
Yeah see what happened. You know, s you know, licking your finger and sticking it in the air was like high tech.
gavin (14:26.802)
Yeah.
gavin (14:36.563)
W was there ever a a time when I don't know, it just got to be too much, too intense? Did where have you gone through any periods of reflection in in in man, I'm gonna go back to cooking.
Alejandro Palmaz (14:53.555)
No, no, no. It's always been, yeah, you know, just with the the joy of giving somebody the chance to fly, for for me especially was was really, you know, just seeing that I could do that for them. It it I I always tell people it's like it's like taking somebody on the best powder day skiing and they don't know how to ski, you know?
gavin (14:54.995)
You've always been fired up.
Alejandro Palmaz (15:22.953)
And so you're you're exposing them to something that even if it's just a sledder, but then the the day that you get to thermal and you take a passenger to fifteen, sixteen thousand, they that blows their minds, you know. They they just
gavin (15:40.435)
Yeah. That's just inconceivable to them. They didn't understand whether they're st yeah, mind blown.
Alejandro Palmaz (15:44.414)
Yeah, they didn't realize that that's what you can do or and nowadays, I mean nowadays the guys, you know Petey came and flew what, 310K out of here? You know? He did it in a c Yeah, th they were d they're doing some crazy stuff now. I mean
gavin (15:57.833)
Yeah, little Pete's been crushing out there.
Alejandro Palmaz (16:06.261)
Just inconceivable from what what what it was like. I mean, the bit a big flight here was if you could fly to Crested Butte, you know, the first one it ch as a c as the crow flies, it's about twenty-five miles. Yeah, yeah. Basically nowadays, before you were, you know, it took you
gavin (16:09.246)
Yeah.
gavin (16:16.808)
How far is that?
gavin (16:26.388)
Like two glides. These days, right? Yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (16:34.709)
Two hours to get over there.
gavin (16:37.052)
Right, right. Yeah, so the that must be quite cool to that evolution, must kinda put your butt in a seat every once in a while like, Wow, what? What happened here?
Alejandro Palmaz (16:51.677)
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's it has the you know, the fact that we can get information that that before we never had. I mean, you know, we were lucky we had the a a computer that was hooked up to a telephone line that you could call with, you know, on your landline.
You could call it and it would tell you what the winds were doing at Ruthie's. And so with 20 or 30 pilots calling Debbie all the time to see what the winds are doing, the thing was busy like 95% of the time. Because, you know, people would be sitting there at work and shit, wondering what the winds were doing at Debbie, you know. And so
It was that was that was it. That was your only information. And so now it's beautiful to have, you know, Wind Alert or any of these other websites that you can go to to see what the winds are doing every five minutes, you know.
gavin (17:47.156)
So awesome.
gavin (18:03.962)
Alex, is there any is there any nostalgia for those years? Is it is it has the progression line has the arc of what you've seen with wing development and forecasting tools and I don't know, regulation all is it all been a steady up in general, or are there things that I mean, because you know, when you go to comps these days, people are serious, man. They take it seriously. Now we have a
party at the end, we're famous for them around the world. You know, we we s we're still Americans. We still like to throw down and have a good time at the end. But I mean the stories I hear of, you know, just people showing up totally hung over and you know, d racing their best race and
all those names you just mentioned, you know, Robbie and Santa and you know, it was pretty wild. You know, I was kinda it was kinda like on the precipice all the time, it seems like. But is there a is there a man, back in the day to this thing for you, or has it all been pretty cool?
Alejandro Palmaz (19:10.091)
You know, it's it it's the progression has been good and you know the the fact that this town is kind of famous for being this massive party town. and and when those guys would come and all gather together, I mean it was it was
mayhem you know which which in in many ways yeah in many ways was people cutting loose but also but also cutting loose when it was fly time, you know.
gavin (19:41.096)
Good word.
gavin (19:50.887)
Yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (19:56.332)
When it was fly time, they they would they would put their game face on and get it you know, get after it, which was which was amazing. And you know, it it certainly helped when when when we when they couldn't fly, that there was entertainment, you know. It was the right kind of entertainment for a lot of these guys that were, you know.
gavin (19:56.34)
Sure.
gavin (20:16.913)
Right. Right.
Alejandro Palmaz (20:23.233)
they're still half crazy because they have you know they're paragliding. Yeah, there's there's absolutely something wrong that nobody can put their finger on, but it was it was it was good it was surprisingly fun and just just a a great way to see the progression of it of the sport for sure.
gavin (20:27.782)
R Yeah, there's something wrong with us anyway. Just
gavin (20:51.358)
Did you have any vision, you know, early on when you you got back from Paris, you know, you'd had that culinary experience and you could kinda name your place, go where you wanted to go. Did you have any concept that this you what are we here? Thirty al almost thirty years later, right? I have the math right, yeah. That this would be in thirty years you'd be talking to me about a lifetime of paragliding?
Alejandro Palmaz (21:21.223)
No, I had no I had no idea that well one I would be able to stay here because this is not the easiest place to live, financially. it's it's a ch it's a tricky town when it comes to that because it's extremely expensive. but fortunately, you know, a lot of hard work and stuff, you can you know, I I was able to stay. I did leave that first year, but then I hated it
I I went to Southern California and I didn't didn't like it. so I I I gave up the the beach for scrapping on skis again. So I decided at that point that I would never leave. And and then as soon as I started flying, I was like, well, you know, this flying thing, the beauty of w working in a place like or any ski r town is that you have off season. And then off season was all about w
you know, w where are you gonna go in the world? You know, because all of a sudden you have two months off, whether you like it or not, you know, and where are you gonna go and what are you gonna do? I mean, back back in the early days it was like, you know, you know it's a good vacation if nobody dies but everybody comes close. Yeah, that's
gavin (22:30.184)
Yeah.
gavin (22:48.116)
That's gonna the title of this podcast. That's awesome.
Alejandro Palmaz (22:50.413)
So so that was, you know, that was either we were going scuba diving down in Belize or we were, you know, that first summer in paragliding, I think I had 40 flights under my belt. And I mean my buddy Tony Green decided that it would be a good idea to go fly off at Chamani. And with only 40 flights.
or fifty flights, I think, and, you know, pieces of shit radios that didn't even work when we got there and and here we are, we're looking around and nobody's flying and it because it's it's it's a gray day.
gavin (23:21.086)
Mm-hmm.
Alejandro Palmaz (23:32.543)
And so nobody was flying, and my my buddy Tony and I decided, well, nobody's flying, but shit, we can fly. So we went up, they gided me the and started laying out. Nobody was there. I was like, there's no wind either. It was like no wind at all. So we had to run off that thing. Pretty good clip to get off in into the into the air. And then landing, and my buddy Tony, he ended up
gavin (23:55.483)
Committing.
Alejandro Palmaz (24:02.446)
he ended up trying to take off he was just starting to take off and ended up hitting a rock with his with his legs and he blew his knee out and so that that ended that the whole paragliding for that trip because he I had to put him he didn't speak a lick of French so he I had to put him on a a plane back to the US so that he could get his knee worked on.
And so that was my first, you know, paragliding trip. Did one flight off of the Guy de Midi.
gavin (24:40.757)
Dude, I haven't even done that. I've flown over there a ton. I love that that's your first flight.
Alejandro Palmaz (24:44.948)
Ha ha ha ha.
Alejandro Palmaz (24:50.156)
Yeah, my first flight in Europe was was there. And then but then fortunately, like about four years later, I was able to go back with Dick and Chuck, and we had a whole posse of people that that we were guiding there. And we went to Chamonix and then we went down to Monaco, we went into Spain.
so we took a whole crew. We were about twenty twenty pilots. Fifteen to twenty pilots that we were taking around Europe at that time. Was pretty fun.
gavin (25:26.665)
Cool. Yeah, super fun. What's the craziest thing you've ever seen in flying?
Alejandro Palmaz (25:30.218)
Yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (25:34.508)
Craziest thing.
gavin (25:35.413)
Doesn't have to be bad, good, or I don't you know, just just one of those like you when you're sitting around with your buddies at night. You remember that one time? Just the nuttiest thing you've ever seen.
Alejandro Palmaz (25:43.437)
Jesus, there's you know, I guess during those during those Red Bull things, those those were always just surprising, you know. Seeing Mitch do some of that stuff was was always just blew my mind.
You know, at one of the at one of those, there was another hang glider pilot that I don't know what he was doing, but I w I remember flying and then all of a sudden seeing the hang glider just taco. And fortunately he was able to throw his reserve and came down and basically walked away from it. And I was like, Holy shit, what just happened to that hang glider?
'Cause I've never seen a hand glider just fold up into pieces, you know? And I was like, I don't know what he I don't know. I can't I can't even remember what happened, but I just remember seeing it. And that that really surprised me that that that that thing could fold up. Maybe he was trying to do like a loop or something. Maybe. I I just can't I can't remember what what it was, but all I remember is seeing it
gavin (26:35.881)
What happened?
Do acro or something?
Whoa.
gavin (26:51.699)
Yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (26:57.95)
And seeing his reserve come out, which was nuts.
gavin (27:00.511)
There's a crazy story, during one of those what did they call it? The I don't know if it was a Red Bull event over in Telluride too. When Mitch and those guys would compete in it. I've Telluride Air it was the well it was was it the Air Force? That I mean, I know that's their club over there. I can't remember what it was called, but it was but it's in that book. Eric You know, the green team. It it's in w it's in that book. It's so funny. I I'm drawing a blank on what the name of the book is right now, but
Alejandro Palmaz (27:16.587)
Yeah.
gavin (27:29.331)
Yeah, there's a there's a story of a guy doing acro and toccling in in over in inteluride and it was terrifying. I don't think that one worked out very well, as I remember.
Alejandro Palmaz (27:38.612)
No yeah. You know, it's kind of cool those races that they would do here with the hand gliders because they had like they had like this course that they would do and they would have to come and like go below a certain level.
like buzz the ground and then you know, go through this course and then land they would land they would land like right on the face of Aspen Mountain. And it was it was it was pretty wild to see some of that stuff happening and what they would do with them. I was surprised that the ski resort even would allow half the stuff they did back then compared to now. We can barely get, you know
gavin (28:07.891)
Whoa.
gavin (28:22.622)
Right.
Alejandro Palmaz (28:26.976)
barely get us to be able to fly around. Things have gotten a little trickier now, especially with the airport and stuff. You know, the airports that's it's very busy, so it's it it makes it sometimes I I don't I think the pilots that fly airplanes don't realize that we can actually hang out and be in the air for like five hours now. You know and b
gavin (28:31.069)
Yeah.
gavin (28:35.22)
Right.
gavin (28:40.159)
Sure.
gavin (28:53.535)
Right.
Alejandro Palmaz (28:55.924)
and be at, you know, seventeen thousand feet for hours o on end. so
gavin (28:59.397)
Yeah. Is it is it a lot of jet traffic coming in and out? you know, the rich folks with their private planes or okay, so it's not like bush planes and little guys, 'cause the little guys seem to be th they they seem to be we can manage them here, but it's the bigger ones that get to be tricky.
Alejandro Palmaz (29:05.46)
Yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (29:15.656)
Yeah, no, we get a l you know, I would say about almost 75% of the the the planes are jet, private jets that come in and out of here. And it is it's busy. I mean, it's the second busiest airport in Colorado next to DIA. Yeah. Yeah. And and there's only one way in, so
gavin (29:36.925)
Whoa, really?
Is crazy.
Alejandro Palmaz (29:44.426)
that that part is is where we have to pay more attention because some of the some of the flight paths that some of the paraglider pilots have been doing come into play where they're getting a little too close to that one one area to be able to fly into. So
gavin (30:05.577)
Right. Huh. Wow. D and r remind me, I don't know the current stata status of this, but it you know, in Europe all the all the commercial aircraft and the sailplanes and you know, everybody we have to worry about, they all use FLARM and stuff and FONET and FLARM and so, you know, if you've got these days devices have that in it so they can see it, but that see us, but
Alejandro Palmaz (30:23.7)
Yeah.
gavin (30:30.857)
That's not happening here, right? I mean th those they don't see us necessarily, right? They're not using that.
Alejandro Palmaz (30:35.399)
No, no, and I think I think I think ultimately it it probably should go in that direction, you know, just to play it safe. 'Cause last thing we need is what happened to that one girl in Europe, you know, when she got clipped by that plane. I sometimes I'm surprised that that hasn't happened yet, especially here.
gavin (30:45.897)
Sure. Yeah.
gavin (30:51.823)
man, that was gnarly. Yeah.
gavin (31:00.905)
Is I I got a I got a buddy, you know, here in in in Idaho, we've got the Mountain Home Air Force Base down in Mountain Home, which is, you know, an hour drive from here, f fifty, sixty miles, I guess, is the crow flies, something like that. and they they're usually doing their stuff out on the Snake River Plain and we never see But you know, there's always a couple days in the summer where we'll be really tall, hopefully. And
you know, you hear those guys, sometimes you never see but you hear You the F eighteens make a lot of noise and they'll just be barrel rolling down through the canyons and, you know, it looks wicked fun. But I I have a buddy who flies those and said, you know, we're not we're not even looking out the windshield most of the time. We would never see you. You would just be a bug on the windscreen. Yeah, there would not there's there's no way. At that kind of speed and what they're doing and because they're mostly just looking at their instruments, they're not looking out the window.
yeah, I mean it s it seems like it'd be awful nice if we had something that could tell without Hey, we're over here. We're out here. We're basically invisible to them.
Alejandro Palmaz (32:02.503)
Yeah, just a There was this w there was this one time we were out flying, it was a few years ago. So we have obviously Colorado Springs is just, you know
Pretty close to here. So we get a quite a few jet F sixteens and all that stuff flying in the mountains here because they w need to do some of the mountain training. And there was one day we were flying and some of the guys were starting to get up high and you could hear coming. And you know, fortunately the air the the
The airport tells them that we're flying, so they kind of have an an an idea that they're com that we're coming or that we're out there. And so these two planes were nice and tight, coming just about ready to fly over the launch site. And you see them, they come by, they fly over, and then all of a sudden you see one of the guys breaks away and comes back around.
And I could have sh it almost seemed like he he like put a bead on one of us because he came back around and then just screamed right by like right over launch again. And I was like, yeah, I was like, holy shit. And that that was just like one of those things. I like I think that that guy literally was just having fun.
gavin (33:16.406)
that's a little unnerving.
gavin (33:31.786)
Yeah. Just hey, we see you
Alejandro Palmaz (33:34.571)
We see you, and I think if I had to, I could shoot you down with a missile.
gavin (33:41.001)
Right. But I'm just gonna do a flyby and check. 'Cause you're going awful slow. I'm not sure our stuff is Are you moving actually? You just seem to be floating up here. You know, to his perspective it's probably looked like you weren't even moving.
Alejandro Palmaz (33:46.755)
Yeah, I just wanna see if I Yeah, I think I'd miss. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's that's
Alejandro Palmaz (34:00.543)
For sure, for sure. but
gavin (34:04.182)
all all these people that have kinda, you know, either come and gone in your life and been around for a while and you know, any any fun memories of either an in air or down on the ground sitting at the bar story with with any of them. It's it's so funny to have watched the arc from a distance of say somebody like
Chris Santa Croce, you know, I mean the stories of him when he was in his teens and when he was, you know, with Red Bull and just f full on, you know, and now he's got a couple of kids and keeping it pretty chill. Yeah, things obviously change for us as we get the lines in our face. But anything that just pops out of any of the I ca yeah, like you said, Dave Bridges and this you know, Aspen has attracted a lot of characters over the years.
Alejandro Palmaz (34:38.293)
Mm.
Alejandro Palmaz (34:57.373)
Yeah, it has. You know, I guess one of the things that that I remember most is is when I first was going to get my instructor rating and back then you had to do you had to do your instructor rating and your tandem rating together. So and one of the first like clinics
that were put together for instructors and tandem pilots, tandem instructors, was up there in in in in Idaho in Sun Valley back when when Chuck Chuck Smith and what was the other Smith
Who owned who started Adele USA no shack I can't believe I'm blanking his name. anyway, he put together a clinic and and in that clinic it was Robbie Whittle, Chris, Dick,
gavin (35:53.962)
Was that John?
Alejandro Palmaz (36:17.38)
Wally from Jackson Hole, what's Scotty from Jackson Hole, me, and then Chuck was there, and that was everybody in that one clinic.
gavin (36:26.634)
Marion, yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (36:38.102)
and all of us were get getting instructor ratings. If not, they were just there hanging out. And then when when after we would disperse from from the from the clinic, we would all go to the bar and just hang out there for hours.
shooting shit, talking about flying. That's all we did and and then the next morning we'd have to get up and and actually go and fly 'cause we would have to do tandems with each other so that
gavin (37:12.256)
Get your get your sign offs.
Alejandro Palmaz (37:14.246)
Yeah, to get sign offs and so we would spend like four three or four days together as a group as that group, you know, of people. And it was it was impressive. It it always I was like, man, this is pretty cool. These gu like all these cool people are hanging out and, you know, ex teaching each other, you know, about their experiences, which which was kind of a
gavin (37:22.934)
Wow.
gavin (37:39.863)
Yeah, I mean you're you're hanging out with some serious class type one big personalities, you know, big influential, legendary, you know, they they made they made some big marks on this sport. Then and to come. Greg Smith, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good there you go.
Alejandro Palmaz (37:44.362)
Yeah. Yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (37:54.109)
It it was Greg Smith as the Yeah, yeah. Greg Smith was who I was trying to remember his first name, but he was a piece of work, obviously. him and him himself. but but really had, you know, was was kind of showing us the ropes because he was pretty pretty legendary in his own way.
gavin (38:02.954)
Yeah.
gavin (38:19.574)
there's a guy Brent here that used to own this ski shop called Ski Tech, and he was I mean he's still around, but he he he got pretty hurt flying, but he was Nate's got this great story. My neighbor and Nate Scales and people who listen to the show know who Nate is. But he he was standing in his store and he the guy was, Hey, you know, does anybody want I got this paraglider thing. You does anybody want to come do this, you know? No, no, no.
And Nate goes, yeah, I'll do it. And so they went out and they hiked up Greenhorn. It's a site we never use anymore, but they hiked up Greenhorn and the guy kind of showed them the basics and then got him off the hill and he flew down and landed at the bottom. And they got and they and Brent went, Okay, well, now you know everything I know. There you go. That was that was Nate's instruction. Welcome to Paragliding. There you go. You're a paraglider.
Alejandro Palmaz (39:07.7)
Ha ha ha.
Yeah.
Alejandro Palmaz (39:15.952)
Nate, he's a good man, for sure.
gavin (39:21.51)
night for dinner, but yeah, it's a he's a good neighbor, good good mentor as well. I mean I I always think that if we started this whole thing off with mentoring, you know, that that should be the theme of the of the show. We've drifted from that a little bit, but I when I look back on my own flying time career, you know the it's it's just peppered with incredible mentors that just
happened, luckily really. and you know, I get questions, how do you find mentors and how do you how do you nurture that relationship? And I always say, Well, yeah, and be a retrieve driver. Yeah, that's that's one of the best ways. But it seems so critical, doesn't it, in this sport? Because, you know, we go
to Aspen or Sendball or wherever and learn, you know, we get our P two and we get the basics and we learn how to do a little bit of ground handling and then it's just fling you're get flung out of the nest and there's there's a lot you don't know and it's gonna take years to to get it. i you you mentioned in your email to me that that was a big thing for you is just having having good mentors. I don't even have a question with this. I just wanted to
Is is that something you've reflected on over the years or is it something that you're you think about now when people come into the sport and that are pretty new? You know, that's it just seems like such a critical part of the process.
Alejandro Palmaz (40:55.184)
I yeah, I I definitely think that it's it's n necessary to find those people, especially when you're learning to fly, to to be able to get the experience that you don't understand, from people that obviously have have have been through a lot.
Those met those type of mentors are the ones that are gonna keep you safe. hopefully. I mean, that's what we try to do here is to instill into all the students especially that this is this is incredibly dangerous what we do for fun. but you always have to understand that you're you're part of something that people have been doing for years.
you know, and those people have taught us something. They've taught us from their mistakes. And so those are the those are the people that you have to surround yourself with so that you understand more of the sport as a beginner. and and it's important to to find those people and and and to to hopefully befriend them and to to to take some knowledge
that that that with with you that you learn from them. you know, obviously it's it's incredibly important. Yeah. so yeah, I think I was gonna say it's, you know, for all those b newer pilots out there, definitely seek seek your your mentor and and you know, pick their brains and talk to them or just w or or watch them. Just
gavin (42:27.009)
That they've earned
gavin (42:31.923)
Alex time we got time for one more question. go ahead. Sorry.
Alejandro Palmaz (42:49.967)
Literally watch what they do and how they assess and all kinds of different conditions and whatnot.
gavin (42:59.799)
Alex, we've got time for one more question here. I'm gonna pulling out of the the the the history of this show. I used to ask this all the time, I don't do it very much anymore, but I still love it. If if you could rewind the clock to your fifty hour self, so somewhere in that kind of early nineties, it sounds like, with all the knowledge that you have now and be able to go back to that, Alex, what would you tell
And it doesn't have to be about paragliding, it could be life, it could be anything, but what would you what would be your advice to your younger self?
Alejandro Palmaz (43:37.459)
I would
Alejandro Palmaz (43:41.193)
I would probably
Alejandro Palmaz (43:45.97)
Say that you're lucky to be alive still. But more than any more than any exactly. Keep up the good work. to to really enjoy all the flying that you get to do when when you're when you have the opportunities.
gavin (43:54.68)
When you get to be my age you're gonna be lucky to have gotten there.
Alejandro Palmaz (44:14.599)
to to go you know go around the world doing that and and you'll have a a pretty fun life. You know go g you know.
gavin (44:30.231)
So do what you did. Don't change a thing.
Alejandro Palmaz (44:32.635)
I wouldn't change it th I don't think I would change a thing. I I I love I love traveling and to be able to travel with a paraglider is a pretty cool thing to do.
gavin (44:45.589)
Love it. Alex, thanks, dude. I I appreciate you and thanks for shar sharing these stories and keeping the dream alive there in Aspen. Somebody's gotta do it, man. It's like you said, it's it's getting trickier and trickier these days, but I'm sure the community appreciates it and we do as well. So thanks, man.
Alejandro Palmaz (45:04.273)
Yeah, it's good to it's good to, you know, be able to hopefully pass it on to the next generation. I got my my brother in law, Patrick Henry, who's who's doing a hell of a good job helping me keep keep this thing running. And then I got my youngest I my oldest son Henry doing tandems now. So I don't have to do as many. So so we're looking forward to
gavin (45:26.977)
Cool. That's great. Passing it down to the kiddos.
Alejandro Palmaz (45:30.511)
Yeah, to pass it down to the next generation of pilots who are very good pilots now. They started when they were little.
gavin (45:40.119)
Yeah. Yeah, you got little little Pete just around the corner showing up and sending the huge. So yeah, it's it's all working, man.
Alejandro Palmaz (45:46.109)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, Gavin, it was pleasure talking to you. Yeah, no worries.
gavin (45:49.335)
Well thanks, dude. I appreciate you.
