This episode features one of Valle De Bravo’s most loved and successful pilots, Estefano Salgado. Estefano is a world-class trained chef who supported the France 4 team of Tanguy Renoud-Goud in the 2025 Red Bull X-Alps, is one of (maybe the only?) North American pilots to win a World Cup in recent history, is an elite instructor/guide for ParaglidingGuides.com and is a wicked story-teller! In this episode Estefano discusses his experiences in competitive paragliding, putting control theory and his education with French coach Julien Garcia into use, team management, and the importance of training and mentorship in the sport. Gain insights into the mental strategies, team dynamics, and innovative training methods that drive success in high-level paragliding competitions and get some fun behind-the-scenes hysterical moments from the toughest adventure race on Earth, the Red Bull X-Alps. This one is a hoot- enjoy!
Support the Podcast
A buck an episode, that's all we ask
If you like what you hear, please consider becoming a subscriber to ensure our high-quality content continues. You can also help contribute to a healthier, greener planet through our partnership with Our Forest.
See our donation and subscription options here.
Listen to the Podcast
Listen to us on all the most popular podcast platforms:
Control theory in paragliding Team management and logistics during competitions Mental strategies for competition success
sound bites
“Winning is about mindset, not just skill.” “Focus on process, not just results.” “Discipline is the key to mastery.”
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Current Motivations 02:58 Insights from the X-Alps Experience 05:56 Team Management and Support Dynamics 09:05 Culinary Challenges and Team Nutrition 11:53 Surprises and Lessons from the X-Alps 14:52 Winning the World Cup in Brazil 17:49 Flying Techniques and Strategies 20:47 Mindset and Competition Dynamics 31:26 The Importance of Mental Control in Competition 32:12 Building a Strong Coaching Partnership 33:12 Chasing the Rabbit: Strategies in Paragliding 34:43 Team Dynamics and Collective Strategy 37:34 Adapting Strategies to Different Conditions 40:08 The Role of Emotional Control in Performance 42:29 Learning from Experience: The Value of Coaching 45:05 Analyzing Performance Objectively 48:19 Staying Present: The Key to Success 51:04 Understanding Individual Learning Styles 53:56 The Need for Structured Training Programs 56:32 Raising the Level of Competition 01:00:57 Nurturing the Next Generation of Pilots
Gavin McClurg (00:06.782)
Hey buddy, how are ya? How's, how's, how's VAE?
Estefano (00:07.927)
Hey, good on you. Valle is great, delivering every day, high cloud base at the moment.
Gavin McClurg (00:15.022)
Have you been flying much?
Estefano (00:16.651)
Not at all. I'm a chicken now. I'm old.
Gavin McClurg (00:21.806)
Yeah, you said we've been chatting a little bit lately talking about wings and that kind of thing. You said you're not super motivated right now. What's the, you're just more motivated to go sailing with Nat and Cook and what are you motivated for right now?
Estefano (00:38.453)
No, I'm motivated in flying, but with all these things about new rules and everything. I'm kind of waiting. I'm expecting like an expectation to see what's, what are the new rules coming out for the new gliders and to see what's going to happen with with competition, with CC competition. I think I'm going to do a couple of open class, did a SRS like zero class competitions this year.
We have one in Tapalpa in November, so I'm excited about it. And maybe go to Europe and do some in Europe this year. So I think the CCC open class competitions for me these years will be very few, just Monarca in Valle. And I think we might have a PWC. That's what the words say in the end of the year. So if that happens, well, for sure I'm going to put.
Gavin McClurg (01:28.519)
cool.
Estefano (01:35.767)
my ass to train and be 100 % ready.
Gavin McClurg (01:39.791)
Yeah, we got a few things I want to chat with you about For sure competition and you know, you've been working with Julian Garcia the French coach You've been pulling him into your your business with Nick with guiding and you guys did a really cool kind of comp training Before and during the Monarcha which I got to do with you guys one day which was really interesting and you guys kind of did these
Estefano (01:50.359)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (02:09.154)
kind of a war game, I would call it, scenario where it was really neat. And war's not the right word, but it was really cool to just not just talk about control theory and stuff, but go out and test how these things work. So definitely want to get to that with you, but I'm excited to talk to you first about the X-Alps. You and I both have our hats on here. We got to see each other, not...
Estefano (02:32.584)
Yeah, we both were there.
Gavin McClurg (02:36.046)
Yeah, right. We got to see each other not nearly enough during the XL. So was doing my thing, you were doing your thing. You were supporting Tangy's team and the French team and you were cooking. You had your own vehicle. You were with Natalia. I'm sure it was a blast, but we had this funny kind of interaction at the end of it when we were at the lake at the finish. And I remember you and Natalia just being kind of...
Estefano (02:45.986)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (03:02.498)
blown away by the whole thing, just destroyed. Yeah, you were destroyed. You were exhausted like everybody is. But also, I think it'd just be fun to hear your perspective, you know, because I've had a lot of athletes on the show talk about it over the years, but not many teams.
Estefano (03:02.723)
destroyed.
Estefano (03:13.985)
Yeah. Well, it's very interesting to look at it as a supporter and also as a pilot because once you understand what's happening in the air and once you understand like what more or less the kind of routes they're taking and also your job as a supporter in the ground, it makes a very fun mix of understanding the competition on the ground every single day, know?
Gavin McClurg (03:40.632)
Yeah.
Estefano (03:41.379)
A lot of us that we've watched the X-Alps in the past years, we've looked through the computer and like, yeah, this is what these guys are doing. But there's a whole world behind the athlete that is happening for that guy to be able to start at five o'clock in the morning and to be able to run during the whole day and be in a hundred percent, like physically, mentally.
And also the motivation of the team, how the energy of the team is managed, how every little member of the team makes a very important job to be able to produce this effect on the team, on the athlete. And it was very interesting analyzing, for example, how Kriegel's team was...
in the camp before starting the comp, no? How they were eating small pieces of very energetic foods during the whole day to be able to build up like, it's the reserves in the body. And then how these rookies, they were coming and they were asking their other teams like, what should I do right now? And it was like, dude, it's almost 12 hours from the start.
And you're still asking what you should do. So it's very interesting of, of looking at the whole perspective from the very, very experienced teams to the, to the rookies and us, I think we knew it was going to be hard. We knew it was going to be a challenge, but I don't think we even, we like, we thought maybe from the 1 % of what's going to be at the end, at the end, it was, it was like.
Gavin McClurg (05:28.471)
Really?
Estefano (05:31.427)
over our expectations. had to drive. We were starting to drive at six o'clock in the morning and we're ending to drive at six o'clock in the afternoon. us, we were in charge of food. So we had to go to the supermarkets while they were flying. But also an interesting thing for me was that because of my competition background and flying background, I was able to
not help them in the strategy, but to be able to be communicating with the team in a certain way that my information was taking in a certain way. it was a very, very nice team that we made with team and Ben and all the other guys. And see also how the supporters, the runners, the people that the porters that take
the food and the water up to the mountain. are one of the guys, one day we like, I remember with Nati, he run with Tanguy up a mountain. And when he came and land and we pick him up, he was completely yellow. He looked like Bart Simpson. Yeah, he was crazy. He was like in full ketosis. I don't know how you say it in English. the...
And you could see like, dude, you really need to eat something right now if not you're gonna break. So yeah, it's very interesting to be able to look. And normally I'm the one competing in regular cross country competitions, but now I was in the other side and I was like, shit, this is not paragliding. This is nothing that we've seen before. These guys are like aliens.
Gavin McClurg (07:24.59)
How, you guys had a really big team. What was that like from a management perspective? Because it seemed like when I did tie in with your team, which wasn't that very often, sometimes you just end up with teams a lot and other times, I hardly saw you guys. But how was that from a management perspective and just managing all the different vehicles and people and...
Estefano (07:27.33)
Yeah.
you
Estefano (07:45.687)
Well, food-wise was kind of hard because we had three different vans and I had the food in one van. So most of the days in the morning, I would prepare breakfast for everyone and I would prepare some kind of snack or sandwiches to give the other guys and to have tangy with snacks. also like he, it's also very hard to cook for Tangy because it's like cooking for a five-year-old kid that doesn't like to eat.
Gavin McClurg (08:10.629)
You
Estefano (08:12.331)
I have like my nephews that they eat, they eat more things than like they're five years old and they eat more than tangy. Yeah. He likes, yeah, he likes very picky, but in the other hand, you have, for example, team and Pedro that the team likes. He's, he's a foodie, man. That guy is like, he should write a cookbook. And then, and then, Pedro, the other, the one of the other supporters.
Gavin McClurg (08:16.673)
Yeah, he's super picky, right? He just likes fast food and stuff. Ugh, can't, what a shame.
Estefano (08:41.655)
That guy, he's crazy about tacos. So every day he's like, is this going to be taco night? Yeah. So it was super fun. Just one day, I was not able to deliver food myself to the team. We were coming down to Locarno. And we are used to American, like these Western roads that are big, that a car can fit.
Gavin McClurg (08:48.004)
Yeah
Gavin McClurg (09:10.957)
Yeah, uh-uh, not over there.
Estefano (09:11.061)
And we were driving this like 20 foot van, so it's big, I don't know, 20, 19 foot, I don't know. And we're driving up the mountain of Locarno, from Locarno going up to the mountain, because supposedly Tangi was gonna walk up and we're gonna feed him there. And then he was gonna go to the next landing that was like more towards, don't know. But there was a storm coming.
Gavin McClurg (09:35.083)
Yeah.
Estefano (09:40.163)
And I'm not used to driving these tiny roads. So we go up with Natalia and he's like, fuck, what's going, like, how are we going to go down this road? And they're like, you're turning and one road, one, one wheel is in the, in the hill and the other one is falling down. And then like, then there's a truck coming down and like, shit. So we arrive up to the mountain, like shaking like this with Matty and it's like, okay, we made it. And then we arrive with Tim.
And they're like, no, he's not going to stop here. He's going to go and eat over there in the next term. And then there was a storm coming down, like coming down the valley. And I told that he's like, either we go down right now or we're not going to, like, we're not coming down this road. So we drove down and we...
Gavin McClurg (10:27.107)
This was the day that had the huge, massive overdevelopment, right? And Tenge had had taken that crazy line all the way to the south of the Alps, into the Rhone and came back around. He had a really good day that day.
Estefano (10:38.211)
I think so, yes. Because there were two very big overdevelopments. One was coming down to Locarno and the other one was where he got sucked by the cloud. What's his name? It's the... Alonghi. That was crazy. Yeah. But this day, Tangi went up. Well, he was driving up, so we spoke with Tim. Okay, I'm going to drive down.
Gavin McClurg (10:49.933)
Yeah, Tim, the Longy. Yeah, that was the day he quit.
Estefano (11:05.495)
So I'm right at the landing when he arrives and I can have like hot food and ready food for him, no? I go down the mountain in the middle of the storm. It was not nice. And suddenly they called me, hey, he's not going to fly because of the storm. You need to go up again. was like, I am not going up that road again. So I went to the bottom of the mountain. I cooked everything.
I called an Uber.
And this girl from like Eastern Europe, I don't know where, comes in an Uber with ferry wheels and like these domino things hanging from the like, it looked like a very pinky Uber. And I look at her and I tell her, have you ever been up there? And she's like, yeah.
Okay, so I gave her the bags and we delivered food to the top of the mountain and we slept in the bottom of the mountain. That was the only day I was not able to be. They were not very happy, but yeah.
Gavin McClurg (12:05.923)
Brilliant.
Gavin McClurg (12:18.511)
How about Natalia? Did she, I mean, you guys had just gotten married in March, you know, so this was pretty, I was gonna say, that's an odd vacation,
Estefano (12:22.283)
Yeah, she almost divorced me. Yeah. Honeymoon. What are you going to do on your honeymoon? We're going to be chasing at Red Bull athletes around the Alps, driving for 12 hours a day.
Gavin McClurg (12:39.279)
But every time I saw her, she was laughing and having a blast. Did she like the experience of seeing it? Was it kind of just mind blowing? Was it boring? What do you think?
Estefano (12:48.323)
I don't think she would do it again. I don't think, no, I think I would do it again because I like these kind of things. But the hardest part is that you're in expectation all day long. like people say, you're driving in the middle of the Alps. No, you're driving. You're going to every single parking lot in the middle of the Alps.
Gavin McClurg (12:52.439)
Yeah, my wife would never do it.
Estefano (13:16.491)
and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting, no? That's really the life of a supporter when you're cooking and then you're driving and you arrive and then you have to cook very fast. And many times like Tanguy or Tim or I like, I don't know how many kilos did Tim lost during this competition. I had to be chasing him with a bowl and like be stuffing food in his mouth. Like, yeah. So yeah, it was interesting.
Gavin McClurg (13:45.968)
When you, maybe at the time or since then, what was the kind of most surprising thing? What was the thing that you weren't prepared for? That you were just kind of, whoa, I had no idea it was gonna be X that fast or that kind of pace or...
Estefano (14:04.887)
There were many times that because the Altsar, these huge massive like we like, you all guys know these massive like chains of mountains that you don't have a lot of connection roads between the like crossing from side to side of the So even if, if the athlete was 40, 50 kilometers away, but he was in another system, in another valley system, you had to drive like six hours to go around the mountains and go to him. So the point of.
Gavin McClurg (14:29.241)
Yeah.
Estefano (14:33.533)
of like the point of my job was to, and that was my stress was to be able to be on time every single time he would land, I would have some kind of food for him. And I tried to make like, made him gnocchis and I made him pasta and I made pasta every single day. And now they eat these weird things, know, these Frenchies, they very...
famous for their food around the world, but these kids like to eat something called ÖFBANAN.
Yeah. That it's basically you grab a banana, you smash it, and then you make like soft scrambled eggs, like very mushy scrambled eggs, not cooked all the way. Yeah. And they just like grab and pound that. Supposedly it's like super big in the fitness world and it's full of calories and energy. So yeah, they had me like F banana, banana eggs.
Gavin McClurg (15:21.391)
What?
Gavin McClurg (15:31.011)
What's it called?
Gavin McClurg (15:34.852)
What's it called?
F banana god F F okay gotcha man
Estefano (15:38.965)
Yeah. Yeah. Eggs with banana. so yeah, cooking that at four o'clock in the morning every single day. That was, I think, the hardest of everything. I was like, dude, like, you have a trained chef with you, or like you can or like you want French toast, you want pancakes, you want waffles, you want like, like you want to like a burrito. What do you want? Like, no, that's banana.
Gavin McClurg (15:44.547)
That sounds terrible.
Gavin McClurg (15:52.271)
You
Estefano (16:06.891)
Shit, okay, I'll cook a banana for you.
Gavin McClurg (16:09.52)
So much talent put to waste there, bud. I mean, I wish I was still doing the race, because if you could have been on my team, I just wouldn't have even raced. would say, you know what? Let's just stop. Let's just eat. Just hang out at the HaunenKom and let everybody go, and we just eat for a week.
Estefano (16:19.573)
Yeah, we would just stay, we would just like grab a nice lake and...
Yeah, just don't be the last one so the race continues.
Gavin McClurg (16:30.564)
Yeah, exactly. Just stay ahead of the last place. That'd actually be a fun goal. Just to not get eliminated.
Estefano (16:35.681)
Yeah. Yeah. I just don't want to get eliminated. That's it. No. for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (16:42.416)
But you would do it again. I think Tangy will do it again. Yeah, it's pretty wild, isn't it? I've never experienced another event that's like it. It is amazing.
Estefano (16:54.687)
Yeah, I spoke to the organizers about making the Red Bull XL taco truck. So instead of cooking for one team, I could go and cook for everyone and be chasing like you do when you go and chase with pizzas and you go with everybody chasing. Like do the same, but like having like this little taco truck chasing the athletes and just like, and you can feed tacos to the athletes and to the crowd and it would be nice.
Gavin McClurg (17:25.264)
It'd be cool to have a culinary channel. That would be really fun.
Estefano (17:27.947)
No? Yeah. And it's nice to see because every single team has their like, they grab a big ball, like plastic ball, and they just like add stuff and they're just like running and eating off a ball like that. And I understand there's a time issue, but at the end you could see like there were teams that they were resting a lot.
And they would be arriving at the same time as the teams they were hearing up. Like this night passes, for example, they don't work. They like the next day they are so tired. they don't, they don't like their performance is bad. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (18:03.3)
Yeah. They just rag you out.
Gavin McClurg (18:09.104)
No, the night pass works against you for sure. I was amazed. One of the things that I never saw when I was racing that I saw this time that I was quite impressed by, I mean if I ever did the race again, I would try to emulate it more, but the last day, the day Kriegel and Lars and Simone and Aaron made it in,
Estefano (18:14.626)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (18:38.48)
On their way to Laramose I took off with those guys that morning and they had about 70k to go to Laramose and then they had to land and then hike back up again and then finish the race So they had a big day. I think they had to fly, you know 250k or something that day So, mean they had a big day But when I got I got up to the launch before anybody arrived Simone Simone was the first one up there and back in my day I would have been antsy I would have you know had all my shit ready to go
Estefano (18:52.642)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (19:05.09)
and been just waiting for the first little puff of wind and taking off and probably blown it and bombed out because I was it was always just such a race. It was I was in that mode of you got to go. You got to just kind of keep moving it so fast all the time and they were up there just laughing and telling jokes and goofing off and they were in no hurry at all. And you know when I would have I would have definitely taken off a half an hour before they did but they were they were really casual. They were
They knew they were gonna have a race later in the day, but they knew that between there and Lermous, they were all friends. They weren't gonna race, they weren't gonna fly fast, they had to get there, not bomb out, not waste any energy. They were veterans. They were taking their time and they...
They looked fresh as daisies. They didn't look tired. And it wasn't, the weather was great this year. It was not representative of a typical ex-op. So I mean, they only really had the two bad days. so they had flown a lot, so they weren't worn out. But it was just interesting to see that veteran presence, that kind of mindset of incredibly, being incredibly calm.
Estefano (19:55.893)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Estefano (20:17.313)
I think that's, that's what's the name of the guy that won is the Italian Aaron, Aaron. I think that's, that's really what the last, the last day of the exiles, you could see the experience of Aaron as a cross country competition pilot. He didn't fly as an exiled pilot.
Gavin McClurg (20:22.934)
Aaron Durgati.
Gavin McClurg (20:28.08)
you
Estefano (20:42.583)
He flew like it was the last day of the super final and he had to win that day. And you could see his track just climbing and gliding, climbing and gliding, climbing and gliding. And he was not taking times and crossing valleys to try to go to the mountains and cruise around. That guy was just like hauling ass like it would be like 150 kilometer tasking on any other day of a cross country competition.
Gavin McClurg (20:47.514)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (21:02.211)
He wanted it bad.
Estefano (21:10.847)
And I think that was the big difference in the mentality of the last day between Aaron and the rest. Grigel is also a great XC competition pilot. But Aaron, I think that's where he was above the rest in exactly that day, because the rest was regular XC, XCX conditions, no, where you had to be reading everything. But the last day was very marked was like couple of turn points. You had to be
Gavin McClurg (21:34.416)
Yeah.
Estefano (21:40.629)
and I don't just kick their asses like instantly.
Gavin McClurg (21:44.121)
Yeah, I think Aaron's mindset that race, at Locarno when I tied in with him, he top landed up there. The place you're talking about, you were with Tangy. And I was running along with him as he was running to the turn point. And I said, Aaron, what's your mindset? What are you thinking about right now? And he looked at me like I was an idiot. And he went, what's my mindset is to win? And this was.
Estefano (22:02.466)
Yeah.
Estefano (22:05.783)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (22:06.562)
I guess that was just the day before. mean, they were really hauling ass at that point. But yeah, I mean, he was in that mindset. And I think that last day it was, hey, I've got to take the riskier line here. I can't take the obvious down to the South and because that's way further. got to take the, especially for him, the riskier line because it, demanded navigating a lot of airspace and Aaron sucks at airspace. hates airspace, but he knew he had to go that way. Yeah.
Estefano (22:08.93)
Yeah.
Estefano (22:27.457)
Yeah. No, they just went around Innsbruck. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (22:34.052)
But he had to go to stay under that one and make the crossing across the valley. That's tricky airspace through there. And he just decided, okay, I have to go this way if I'm gonna win. So he was willing to gamble, which was cool to see.
Estefano (22:36.993)
Yeah.
Estefano (22:43.8)
Yeah.
Yeah, no, no, it was great to see that last day. was like, because it was like watching a very intense super final task. You had these pilots and also Grigel had a big disadvantage with his gear. His gear like...
Gavin McClurg (23:01.114)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (23:07.681)
gear
Estefano (23:09.995)
I don't remember what's the name of the canyon, but they were like doing sled rides in the morning. It was a little canyon with power lines and they had to fly from the top of the canyon and were sitting in the middle of the canyon. And you could see the performance of the glider perfectly. It was like testing the glider of a...
Gavin McClurg (23:26.889)
from Tracy May, I bet. Day two. Coming out of there, yeah.
Estefano (23:29.251)
I don't know. And so they were flying and you could see Adam flying and then you could see and then Krieger when he landed, when he took off, was like, yeah, he was gliding okay, but he landed maybe like two kilometers short of the other guys, no? So.
Gavin McClurg (23:44.977)
Hmm and that's what he always talks about. mean his magic over the years has always been Making two kilometers on everybody all the time. It's just these little bits a little bit extra flying a little bit extra fast a little bit extra one more little move, know, and that with the when the weather is good and To be on gear that is less. I just mean he didn't it wasn't stacked up for him this year, which was cool to see I mean, it was great to see Eric just throw down
Estefano (23:57.72)
Yeah.
Estefano (24:08.482)
Yeah.
Estefano (24:11.873)
Yeah, since the first day he arrived to the top of the mountain, we're in the top of the gondola where the first takeoff is and everybody arrived. This guy just came in, put his pants down like his winner was all over the place. And he was like, he was like, you know, a dog that comes to a post and pee on the post and say, this is my territory. That motherfucker did it. I was sitting with Natalia looking at the takeoff and suddenly I was like, OK, we're going to have a show. OK, OK.
Gavin McClurg (24:40.639)
Hahahaha
Estefano (24:43.127)
Hitchell went like full on, trungale, okay. It's his territory, it's his competition since the first day, ciao. Yeah. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (24:50.639)
That's awesome. That's awesome. See, these are the stories you don't hear on Instagram. That's great. Cool, man. Well, hey, let's switch gears. I want to take us to Brazil. a couple years ago, it two years ago now, right? When you won? three years ago now. Okay. Where was that? Was that Costello?
Estefano (24:57.741)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Estefano (25:07.843)
2023.
Estefano (25:16.597)
It's breaking. What? Andradas, Brasil. A great place.
Gavin McClurg (25:17.071)
No. Where was that? Where was it in Brazil? And throughout us, yeah, I've never flown there. You won that World Cup. So we're talking about mindset. We're talking about anybody who's flown with you knows, you you fly very, you're very bold. You're very cowboy. You you love to lead out a ton. You fly your own lines.
Estefano (25:42.283)
Not that time. Not that time. Well. No, not not Andradas. And what happened really is that I am Mexican, but my mother is I'm also French because of my mother, no. So thanks to to that and because the language barrier and everything, it's easy.
Gavin McClurg (25:45.013)
What was the mentality there in Brazil? It tends to be softer. It's not like vai, right? It's not strong.
Estefano (26:08.503)
I've been training a lot with the, and talking a lot with the French team. And I've became very, very good friends with Julian Garcia, the coach of the French team. And in that specific competition, Julian came to Andradas and it was only Julian, Artur and two other, two other pilots and that's it.
So I was able to participate more. I'm there. I'm just listening. I don't do a lot of questions. listen and that's it. I try not to interrupt a lot. that time, Julian, yeah. So that time he was able to coach me more personally than the rest of the times I was in competitions with him. And I think my best position before that one was like 70 something.
Gavin McClurg (26:44.645)
You're talking about Julian's briefings every day that he does and stuff. Yep. Okay.
Estefano (27:04.009)
And so I said, OK, I've been flying for that time for 20 years, 20, 19 years, I don't know. And I've never won a World Cup. And these guys tell me how to win a World Cup. think I'm going to shut up, listen and do what he do, what he says. So I did I did every single day what he told me to do. He need to do this. This is a strategy. This is how we're going to fly.
Every single day I had him in the back of my head just like reminding me what to do and surprise I won the World Cup.
Gavin McClurg (27:41.871)
that easy. So you just had to basically box up how you normally do, throw that away.
Estefano (27:42.869)
That easy!
Estefano (27:49.375)
Not, not, not completely, but I had a great glider. It's, the only glider sitting inside my house that doesn't see any, any humidity or anything. It's right there.
Gavin McClurg (28:04.283)
That's the Magic Glider.
Estefano (28:05.379)
Yeah, I'm never going to sell that glider. It's going to stay with me for the rest of my life. So I had a very good glider. I had a very good trim on the glider. Completely the opposite of all these new trims people are doing, like super, super aggressive. And I spoke to Ross at the time. He was like, no, because of your weight, because of everything you should in the place, you should trim this and this and this like that. And the...
So I was feeling that I had a huge advantage in the climbing.
Gavin McClurg (28:36.717)
Mm, so you trimmed it kind of slow instead of fast.
Estefano (28:39.075)
I trimmed it very slow in the middle, very close to zero, then a little bit faster on group two and then as fast as possible on group three. Completely the opposite of what they're doing now that they go very fast in the middle, then slower in group two and as close as possible in group three to avoid the tip collapses. But because I have natural ballast with me, I can do it the opposite.
Gavin McClurg (28:59.387)
Tip classes.
Gavin McClurg (29:06.213)
Yeah.
Estefano (29:10.187)
Yeah. That's why every single time I hear about these equalizers and these I was like, dudes, like stop inventing shit. Just come with me. I'll adopt you for a couple of months and I'll make sure you fly the right size glider. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so Brazil was that Brazil. And also, I think. I.
Gavin McClurg (29:23.633)
Okay, hand up for that one, I want that. Just to eat your food, I don't care how much weight I gain. Perfect, I'm in.
Estefano (29:37.641)
The, my, my way of flying, it's very, I, my advantage I can say that I, I think I can read the lines quite good. So, and rather especially it's a place where there's huge convergence, huge, like 20 kilometer line convergence. And you had to be, you have an airspace on top, so you have to be very, very.
careful of not getting sucked into the airspace because those convergence are atomic. so I was able, because of also the place I live in Valle, and it's not that smooth here, it's a little bit turbulent, I was able to speed up all the time in the convergence and then, yeah, fly fast. And then we had a couple of the Brazilians that they had the pressure of being locals.
Gavin McClurg (30:26.321)
Fly fast.
Estefano (30:33.441)
that they were living always on the bottom. So the control theory that we've been working a lot with Julian, we were able to apply it perfectly. And there's not that much, for example, in Monroe, you have a lot of laterality. So your angle of control, it's very difficult than what Andradas is. Andradas, you don't have that much laterality. It's more, you have these convergence lines.
So the pack gets compressed into a certain line. So if you have an advantage in the climbing, you have an advantage and then you have, I am fast because I'm fast.
And so that way I could control them very, very easy every single time. I think once you go above the same pilots over and over and over and over, after the second day, they dream about you. So every time they look at you, they go...
Gavin McClurg (31:41.041)
They have a nightmare about you.
Estefano (31:46.251)
No, and it's exactly what you want them to do. No, it's exactly like, but you have to be calm and done by the hook.
Gavin McClurg (31:49.786)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (31:54.674)
Yeah, you have to keep your brain turned. For me, in that position, you've to keep your brain turned off. Don't get excited. Don't think too much. Just stay on top. Just stay on top. Don't take any risk.
Estefano (32:02.763)
Yeah, cool. Yeah.
Exactly. that's exactly what we're doing now that we're talking before with Julian. We were able to convince him to start coaching and spreading the love to other people. we partner up with him and we've been making very good progress in this partnership.
We did the first clinic in Monarca. think it came out pretty good. had third place overall. had first team, first place in teams. We had first and second in women, first and second in serial. And that's it. So we still need to win the overall in the clinic, but I think it came out pretty nice.
Gavin McClurg (32:57.264)
Yeah, that was great.
Gavin McClurg (33:08.082)
What what can you say to this audience which is a big audience just in terms of the generalities I mean I was talking to Matt Beecher Farmer was over here the other night and I was sharing him with him the experience I had with you guys that day where It was it was kind of control theory, but it was you let Pete go five minutes first Pete's flying lights out right now. He's flying really fast He attacks he's he's often you know lead gaggle and so Julian set it up that
He would leave, you set a course, you set a task, and he would leave five minutes before, and then the rest of us would, how long would it take for the rest of us to chase him down? And it was one climb. We got him in the first climb. And then you reset it again, where I think you and Manuel and Pete and Violetta, maybe a couple of us, then more people got to leave early, and then the rest would chase. And it came out exactly as we,
Estefano (33:48.971)
Easy. Yeah. Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (34:07.378)
as he predicted and we all thought would, right? When there's one person, you're gonna get them. In other words, it doesn't make any sense to go be a rabbit. You're gonna get chased down.
Estefano (34:10.584)
Yeah.
Estefano (34:18.689)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think more and more and more like if, like if we put an example as a by like racing in bicycles, no, like tour de France, la Vuelta, Giro, all of those, you see how the gaggle, how the pelotoon stays together. And maybe you have one or two that they run away. They, they, they go, but they're, it's very hard for one of them to win the whole stage. They go more like for very specific wins during the
during the race and most of the times the winner of that race in the tour and the Giro and all of that comes from the pelotoon and it's a little sprint at the end. So it's more or less that same theory in paragliding. We just have tiny different budgets in research and technology as the cycling world.
Gavin McClurg (35:08.722)
Yeah, a little bit.
Estefano (35:10.153)
No. so it's 10 minds, 20 minds think better than one mind. It's been a long time since a cowboy has won any big competition in the world. It's very hard to win a competition by winning every day. So it's faster. can cover more terrain. can climb.
you can climb better. Gliders are gliding more or less the same nowadays. You don't have this huge difference in gliders. So back in the day where you had these gliders that there was a lot of difference in the glide and the people escaping were on those gliders, then that strategy of flying by yourself would be different because every single glide you would be winning advantage. I think now the for me the difference
It's more in the climbing and how fast you can climb than the rest because when you're gliding, even if you're by yourself or you're with a group, that with a group you can cover better lines. You can see how other gliders are moving. You can adjust your line and glide better. It's more like when you're mapping thermals and you're with a group that can climb fast, that you're 10, 15 pilots and you can climb fast and you can chase.
the pilot in front of you faster, that it's climbing only by itself. No. So it also depends a lot in the place. All strategies change depending on the area you're flying. Monroe, it's a very, very, very weird specific place to compete that we're not used to. Many of us were not used to flying those kind of conditions.
We're more used to places like Valle or places like the apps or anything. It's very different errors. So the strategy changes, the base of the strategy is the same, but you need to adapt that strategy to different conditions. And that's exactly what we did with the, in this first clinic we had. We were, we had the chasing the rabbit, not to say something. Then you had to be.
Estefano (37:30.273)
the king of the king of the air that you had to out climb everybody and you had to be on the start above everybody, no? So you had to climb, climb, climb and you had to be on top. And as soon as you were on top, you had to leave the thermal and go in the bottom of the thermal and then climb again and be on top again of everybody. So that was another example of what we did. Another one was that we were not, another game was we were not able to attack the pelotoon, the gago.
Gavin McClurg (37:49.073)
Mmm.
Estefano (38:00.607)
if you were the one on top. You could only attack the gavel if you were the one in the bottom. Okay? So we could train how to control and how to control and how this rotation is all the time, And the...
Gavin McClurg (38:06.514)
Mm.
Gavin McClurg (38:17.244)
What I thought was interesting about that, Estefano, was kind of the marrying that with the Brazilians and their distance records, because that's what I learned from Donizete. So when we were down in Texas flying together with Cody, and we were trying to break the world record, he had this whole thing where...
if you were at the top of the, you're the top of, and there's only a few of us. It's not a big gaggle. There's only a few of us. But if you were at the top, the bottom person had to lead out. They were the person that had to take the risk. It wasn't the top person. It was the bottom person. But in a competition setting, I wrong? The bottom person must lead out, right? If you're in a weaker position, that's how you get back to a stronger position.
Estefano (38:43.351)
Yeah.
You can order. Yeah.
Estefano (38:52.642)
No.
Gavin McClurg (39:07.1)
Do you do that without being in control of somebody? Isn't Julian's thing you always have to have somebody under control?
Estefano (39:13.355)
you have to have somebody under control. And this was a game we were playing to understand that control. So there's a, thing is that let's say you, you, you make a polar, no, you make a little triangle and you're on top. And then there's another guy in the bottom. This guy would go here, but this guy has all of these angle of control over him as your control line.
Gavin McClurg (39:22.382)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Estefano (39:42.355)
starts flattening like for example this guy start goes out and then it starts going up and up and up but you're still here climbing but you're in a very weak thermal and there is a moment where your line of control is flat that's when you fuck up okay so you should move okay so you need to it's it's very
Gavin McClurg (39:56.995)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, you have, you should have moved. Yeah. Okay.
Estefano (40:07.971)
It's not very complex. the beginning he starts talking about all these numbers and things and that and he's like, shit, what is he talking about? But it's, we're flying paragliders, We're not fucking sending rockets to the moon. No, it ain't rocket science. So I always tell the people, yeah, I always tell the people, if I can do it, man, believe me, you can do it for sure. No?
Gavin McClurg (40:40.253)
So what is that was your win in Andratas when you look back on that? It sounds like the conditions were, the wing was great, you had a great wing, great trim, great conditions for you. You know how to fly convergence. But was it because he was in your ear, was it really actively flying different or was it a matter of you being able to fly your strengths and not
Estefano (40:47.201)
Mm-hmm.
Gavin McClurg (41:10.267)
Not play to your weaknesses. Were you able to remove your weaknesses? Which which I would which I would say is kind of like Manuel you you and Manuel love to go for it That's been my weakness for 15 freaking years. I can't seem to learn this You know, I just I love to put the gas on when I'm in a good position It's very hard for me to back off and be reserved and stay in control like I'm in the position I'm going you know But I imagine that anyway What do you think?
Estefano (41:19.681)
Yeah.
Estefano (41:33.9)
Yeah.
Estefano (41:37.999)
I think what I did specifically is to put my old me inside a box and leave it in the hotel. I had the skills for flying, that doesn't change. But I was like, I really want to do this with this guy. I have the chance to listen to him. I have the chance to get trained by him to get coached.
Gavin McClurg (41:45.715)
Mmm.
Estefano (42:06.985)
So just going to listen and see what happens. And it worked. It worked. Another example, one of the guys that was in our clinic this winter in Monarca, Pablo Robles, Mexican guy, he went to Colombia to do the Colombia Tour competitions.
Gavin McClurg (42:15.45)
Mm, mm.
Estefano (42:30.723)
He never finished in a top competition. He never finished in the podium. He won the C-Rer class in the British Open. First competition after the clinic. Okay. if you are... How do you say? If you obey the rules, if you analyze the rules, I'm not saying that you're going to go into a clinic and you're going to be the next world champion.
Gavin McClurg (42:40.313)
Wow, that's a big one too.
Wow, that's
Estefano (43:00.727)
He doesn't have a little stick and he's not a magician, but if you understand the rules and you, and if you know the basics of flying and you under like, and you understand the basics of competition and you start doing it slowly, your improvement of level would raise impressively. And the, also, what something else that he does is that a lot of people, a lot of pilots think that
Gavin McClurg (43:19.271)
Mm, mm.
Estefano (43:27.937)
debriefs should be done right after flying, Should be done. You end, you finish the day of the, of the competition and you should go straight to a computer and to a map and spend your whole afternoon looking to the map, analyzing every single turn. No. And he explains that, that it's a lot of our sport, it's, it's feelings and it's a euphoria and it's your
your state of mind in the moment. So if you analyze your flights and you analyze your data with that rush of adrenaline inside your head, you will not do it correctly. Okay. And that's for example, why I think Kriegel in the ex-Alps and these Austrians in the ex-Alps and these Aaron Duragotti, German-Italian.
They kicked everyone's ass all day long because they have cold blood inside their bodies and they can analyze every little thing without feelings, no? Exactly, emotion kills performance.
Gavin McClurg (44:35.187)
without the emotion.
Gavin McClurg (44:40.509)
Yeah.
Estefano (44:41.731)
So this is something else that was very interesting of working with Julian. How after a flight you put that emotion down and you make an objective analysis of your performance. And then you have a briefing with him the next day or he sends a little like work on this, work on that, work on that. So it's also very interesting the pre and the post. That's for example, when we do the clinics.
We do four days before the competition, then we do all these games, no? And then during the competition, we wake up, we go to take off, we have a briefing, okay, we explain the task, we do everything. We fly and we don't talk. We go have lunch, whatever. But then he spends all afternoon and most of the times all night because he needs to analyze 10, 12 tracks.
And he goes turn by turn. He's like, it's incredible how he does it. And he, the next morning he gives these briefings to like individual briefings or group briefings, depending on what the situation is. And it's great to understand without emotions, without in a very objective way, how or where you did good or you fuck up. No, it's like.
The same thing happened with us in the ex-alps with Tanguy. There was a point where we going to the last turn point in the south, don't remember that one, close to Maritime Alps, I don't know. And Tanguy went to the other valley and he fucked up. So we had a talk, I spoke to him.
to Julian that day, even if he was coaching the other guys. And I spoke to him and was like, how, how, should I tell these guys? And he was like, well, now you have to, they have to understand that they, have to celebrate every single win, every, like, don't look at the gross objective, no. And that things happen also in cross country competition. You have to like every single time you have like in in a, in one task. Okay. I want to be.
Estefano (46:57.887)
on top of everybody. That's my first win. So celebrate your first win. OK, I want to be on gliding. I want to be in the middle of the pack on top of everybody, controlling everybody. That's your second win. So you have to be winning. You have to be motivating yourself by controlling this. And once you start feeling that you can do it, that you can control the rest, I, for example, I start laughing at the air. I'm like, you're fucking up.
you're pushing too much. You know, like, I am sorry for you. Because I'm normally the one pushing a lot in front and fucking up.
Gavin McClurg (47:38.036)
But you're talking about staying in the present and it's really hard. You I noticed that when you're just focused on process, which was what I loved about Julian and playing that day with you guys, or, you know, executing these games, it's not just talk, it's going out and performing and seeing the process in action. But also, you know, when I had the good comp at...
Estefano (47:55.747)
No.
Gavin McClurg (48:05.28)
Monarch a couple years ago when I won it finally I was so in the moment all the time and I was just still I was so Stoic that I didn't let anything bother me I didn't I just the whole time it was just I just kept repeating the same thing calm and confident common confident common confident and I didn't get ahead of myself what typically happens to me is 20 20k from end to speed I'm in great position. I start thinking about I'm gonna win it then that's
Estefano (48:11.009)
Yeah, exactly.
Estefano (48:21.24)
Yeah.
Exactly.
Gavin McClurg (48:33.005)
For sure. That's when I started saying you're gonna fuck it up now you moron Why did you why do you think about that? You got 21k? Stay right here. Do what you've been doing the last 40k. Why do you yeah? So that's I liked that about them and the mental side of what Julian is that what was helping you and Andrade is just having that kind of regurgitation every morning, know, here's what you're gonna do
Estefano (48:34.999)
Yeah. Yeah.
Estefano (48:41.228)
Mm-hmm.
Estefano (48:51.811)
100 % Yeah. Here's what like I told him like he was because first we spoke about our objectives. Now what's your objective in this competition? was like, my objective is to qualify to the super final. I've never I did a super final in Mexico. I got a like, and that's it, no. But I wanted to qualify for the next super final. And I was like, okay.
Gavin McClurg (49:07.764)
Hmm.
Estefano (49:20.107)
Okay, let's work on that. what's what you need to be? You need to be top 25. Okay, so you don't want you want to finish top 15 top 20 every single day and then you will qualify for the Super Home. Perfect. So you don't rush, don't push. And as soon as you're progressing, as soon as you're like, okay, I'm finishing top 10 top 12 top five every single day. And so they're like, shit, I'm six. shit, I'm fifth. And then there was a point one of the days
that I was like, okay, I'm in the point where I can win. No, I had it. I had it clear. I saw Manuel gliding in front. He fucked up. I saw the other Brazilian going front. He fucked up. And then I had the chance to win. And then I was like, okay, I can still control, but I still have my old me inside myself, you know? I still have it.
Gavin McClurg (50:04.116)
Hmm.
Gavin McClurg (50:12.2)
Time to take him out of the box.
Estefano (50:13.603)
plan to take it out of the box and I hold that and I won. I took them like for a couple of minutes, I think. So you need to have that balance in flying, you it's like.
Gavin McClurg (50:28.318)
What is the kind of overall best takeaway that you see with your students? You see the people that are taking the course, like Pablo, what's the main thing that gets drilled in? Because I think you'd be an idiot to have raced for as long as we have and not understand at least the foundations of control theory. I I've known this for years, but actually putting into practice...
playing these war games, it just put it in a different light for me. Just listening to you, I didn't even do the course, but what do you think is the main thing that's hitting home with people?
Estefano (51:10.915)
I think, I don't know, just every single mind works different and everybody, I don't know if I understood the question correctly, like what does people take of the course?
Gavin McClurg (51:30.877)
Yeah, what's the main takeaway in terms of, and maybe it's just totally different for every independent person because I mean, think, you know.
early on in your career, you need the technical skills to fly with the lead gaggle. But, but eventually it becomes, you know, according to Julian, I believe it becomes much more of a mental thing. I mean, my weakness forever has been lack of discipline. mean, Ross, mean, Russ always said that Gavin discipline, discipline, discipline, and that's control theory. Isn't it? I mean, it's staying in control, not going to be the rabbit, but it's also, but yeah, anyway,
Estefano (51:45.141)
Okay, perfect. Yeah.
Estefano (51:57.282)
Yeah.
Estefano (52:01.09)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Estefano (52:07.938)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (52:09.98)
So what do you think is the main, if you could do a survey after one of these courses, what's the main thing that.
Estefano (52:15.755)
During these clinics, it's a little bit more challenging. It's not the same as training, for example, if you would be the US team, everybody's at the same level, you can talk the same language. Or the French team, everybody is as good as it gets. But when we're doing these clinics, we have to cover all the levels of the pilots flying. For example, we had a little frustration.
with V one day is like, yeah, I know about this, but I want to like, yeah, but everything is going to arrive to the point and you're going to, it's going to arrive to a certain understanding where you have to, one, have to talk to Julian specifically each day one-on-one. And that, that helps a lot. These questions for different pilots, the personal debriefs with him and the, because the theory is the same for everybody, but then it's how do you adapt that theory to the next level?
And that's something, for example, the French Federation does perfectly. It's like you go to college and you want to fly paragliders. Perfect. You're at certain level. They send you to the university and you choose paragliding as your sport. You don't choose basketball. You don't choose football. You don't choose anything. You choose paragliding and you have just another pilot. It's not that bad. It's called Maxime Pinot. He's quite okay pilot. It's more or less, know, yeah, he's all right.
Gavin McClurg (53:40.67)
Yeah, these are it.
Estefano (53:43.295)
And he's coaching the kids. He's coaching the young kids. And then you have in the Alps, you have another coach that he's also quite okay Charles Cazot. He kind of knows a little bit the sport. And then everything is overseen by Julian.
Gavin McClurg (53:55.794)
Yeah, not bad.
Estefano (54:07.469)
So the structure from learning from the moment you start flying competitions to the next level, to the next level, to it's like baseball, minor league, second league, like major league baseball, whatever. They do the whole process like they like, and that's, that's, that is the reality why they've been winning the world championship for the last, I don't know, 15 years. I don't know where, when was the last time like someone from another country won?
Gavin McClurg (54:37.926)
in my memory never.
Estefano (54:38.167)
won the world. So, and there is no secret. There is no secret to the rule. You need to work, you need to train and you need to focus. No. And these are the only guys that they do it professionally in the world. So that's why with our company, we decided to, with Power Gliding guys, we decided to...
with my relationship with Julien, with our friendship, how can we grab that very intelligent brain and how can we spread that love to the world?
Gavin McClurg (55:18.8)
I mean, rising tide raises all ships, right? And I mean, it'll make everybody better. You know, there's the saying that Natalia would like, know, a rising tide raises all ships. I mean, it's going to make everybody better. And I really appreciate this, what Julian's doing, because, you know, when you isolate it just to the French team, they will also be pushed by the Swiss and the Americans and the Mexican, everybody getting better.
Estefano (55:22.391)
Excuse me? What?
Estefano (55:28.288)
Yeah.
Estefano (55:46.465)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (55:46.536)
they'll get better, they'll just create more and push more and it'll make everybody better.
Estefano (55:52.673)
You know Manuel and his words, his saviour's words. And he says that you can be a crocodile in the pond, but once you go to the ocean you're a fucking sardine.
Gavin McClurg (56:05.493)
hahahaha
Exactly.
Estefano (56:11.265)
No. So yes, yeah, I'm the national, I'm the U S national champion, I'm the Mexican national champion. And once we go out to the real world, they kick our asses like always. Yeah. So what's the only way to raise our level? It's to train, it's to learn from the best and to compete with the best. And that's something the U S team.
Gavin McClurg (56:19.025)
Yeah, exactly.
Gavin McClurg (56:25.651)
You're a sardine.
Estefano (56:41.837)
has the female US team has done amazingly. I think that's the best example of performance and the will to raise the level of a team. I don't think there's a single team in the world that has raised their level as fast as the US women team. And that's really an example for the rest of the world because...
Gavin McClurg (57:03.209)
Yeah, I would agree.
Gavin McClurg (57:07.731)
Yeah.
Estefano (57:09.131)
Yeah, they've done an insane job. Violeta, Kaelin, Jenny, Alexia, all the girls, they've been like, they've been raising that level like crazy.
Gavin McClurg (57:19.935)
Let me ask you something that's, you know, not off the record, but just, this is an interesting thing for us to talk about. Do you think it could be maintained? Because, you know, what's happening there with the women's US team is really independently driven. These are very driven women who have decided that this is what they want. you know, to do it takes an enormous amount of time, money, dedication.
Estefano (57:38.625)
Mm-hmm.
Gavin McClurg (57:48.374)
you know, it's different when you're the French, when you can declare this as your major and go to school. And this is your sport. This is a legitimate undertaking. I mean, something that I have struggled with a lot over the years is just the, the why, you know, why put all this time into it for, you know, no one is going to remember who wins the super final four years ago. No one does. I mean, even at that, even at the highest level, there's no money, there's no fame.
Estefano (58:02.507)
Yeah.
Gavin McClurg (58:18.047)
There's no real glory. There's nothing really in it, except personal value. you know, can it be, can these women maintain this level of dedication for something that's, I mean, what I'm saying is in France, it's legitimate. This is a legitimate undertaking in life. But anywhere else, it's a personal hobby. Really.
Estefano (58:18.338)
Nope.
Estefano (58:44.387)
We're the only country in the world that is professionally strength. The rest of us were amateurs.
Gavin McClurg (58:48.969)
Yeah. Yeah, it's a we're weekend warriors really, you know, I mean, even at their level.
Estefano (58:53.993)
Exactly. it's sad to say, but in a capitalism world, like the one we live in the US and Mexico, the only ones that can go out and compete are the ones that have the budget to do it. So maybe there is a lot of talent in the place, but because there is no support,
You guys in the States have the free flight foundation that works amazingly and supports a lot. And you don't get us as we do, you don't get shit from the government. But it would be great that like, I did an interview with a TV channel when I won the world cup and I was like, when was the last time Mexico won a world cup in soccer? I don't know. Never.
and how many millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars it's invested in that sport. And they don't want shit. And the same thing happens to like every other athlete in Mexico that it's not soccer, no? So it's a whole different topic and the same in the States. if we could get the sport recognized by our federations and we can push the same
scheme that the French have in Europe, in France, and adapted to ourselves, it can work. A little example, not in the size of what's happening in France, but in Mexico, in Valle, we have a school in Peñón called Sky Rides, run by Potro, our friend Potro that runs the hangar. And this guy...
he's helping all these new kids with his son Andres that now he's a new gunshot in Mexico and soon he's going to be the new gunshot in the world that you see how he supports all these kids with gear, with knowledge, with classes he takes them to take off and the only thing he demands is that you will be you will be a
Estefano (01:01:16.833)
you need to show me your, how do say, your school results, and you need to show me that you're going to school every day, and that way I will give you and I will help you to fly. Okay? So it's a little example. And what's the result? Well, Andresito is kicking everyone's ass and he came out of that school, no? And then you have...
Gavin McClurg (01:01:32.447)
Wow, that's awesome.
Gavin McClurg (01:01:41.95)
Wow.
Estefano (01:01:44.641)
They have these new kids, Benja, and then you have a new generation. They're like 14 year old kids, 13 year old kids are coming out of the same school and Andres is helping them and they're starting to do go through the same steps as Andres. so it's working, you know, and it's working not with a lot of budget. It's working with a very small budget, but with a lot of passion and heart.
Gavin McClurg (01:02:01.215)
Mmm.
Gavin McClurg (01:02:10.037)
fashion.
That's awesome. And that's kind of what they've done in the UK, right, with the juniors program. they also create a lot of good pilots, you know, as it starts when you're young and it's not just self-funded. I mean, it's just, it's an interesting global perspective when you kind of pull back and look on it. It's, you know, I think what many of us struggle with is it's not really seen as a legitimate undertaking, you know, like the French have.
Estefano (01:02:13.485)
So, yeah.
Estefano (01:02:22.903)
Yeah. Yeah.
Estefano (01:02:41.281)
Yeah, yeah, I think, I think what we need to do us as new as not all generations, but past generations coming to a point where new generations are coming to take our place that we had. It happens in every sport and we have to accept it. Is that now our time is to help these new generations and to see the struggle we had to go through everything we want.
and to see how we can help these new generations have a smoother path and a more professional path. And if we have the chance of learning from the best pilots that they're doing it, and we can share this knowledge to the new generations, that's really what we need to do. We had our time as high, like I'm not saying I'm going to retire.
Gavin McClurg (01:03:15.859)
navigate that.
Estefano (01:03:40.107)
I'm not gonna let it that easy for these fucking youngsters, you know?
But I want to help these new generations to see how can we help them go further than we did. It's like, I'm the only, I don't know if in the US has been a pilot that has won a World Cup, but I think I'm the only one in the whole continent that has won a World Cup. so it took me so long.
to do it by myself and I didn't win shit and it took me one coach by this guy and then I was like, it's that easy. No. So now we have pilots that they've been learning also from him. They're learning about his strategy. They're learning about, so, okay, how can we help this new generation to transmit that knowledge into this new generation? And how can we raise
Gavin McClurg (01:04:25.674)
you
Estefano (01:04:43.553)
the level of our area by creating these new techniques of flying. Because competition, a lot of pilots are like, yeah, but I'm a free flyer. I don't care about competition. Perfect. But this is not only for, like, if you want to reach soaring tori pines, perfect. Be the highest in the pack of tori pines and go the furthest you can go on tori pines.
And so like it's not having huge goals. It's having normal goals, but be the best on any, any, any goal you can have.
Gavin McClurg (01:05:21.194)
Yeah, yeah. And that's what I like is really framing it in a way of training. And otherwise, you're static. You're only going to get better by luck, and you're not getting better by really... You got to play these games. You've got to work together. It was cool to see. And I'm glad that you guys, you and Nick have decided to blow this up a little bit and congratulate you on that because it's...
Estefano (01:05:26.36)
Yeah.
Estefano (01:05:33.878)
Yeah.
Estefano (01:05:45.537)
We're doing more.
Gavin McClurg (01:05:47.362)
Yeah, great, good. I appreciate you, buddy. Thanks, man. This was a lot of good things. I'm glad we were finally able to do it. I miss you and I miss your food. Yes, please, let's do it. Thanks to Stefano. Appreciate it, Ciao, bud. Great, awesome, Here, let me hit the stop here.
