In this episode, adventurer and filmmaker Benjamin Kellett returns to the Mayhem by popular demand to share his rather awesome adventurous paragliding journeys across the Himalaya, Karakorum, and Europe in what has become an annual migration. Ben discusses the challenges of high-altitude flying, gear choices, and the evolving landscape of tandem paragliding regulations and a LOT more. Discover insights into character-building expeditions, the impact of weather phenomena like the “Super” El Nino this year, and future plans for exploration. Ben chases the aesthetic of flying better than just about anyone. Prepare to be inspired!
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Ben Kellett’s migratory schedule and destinations Challenges of high-altitude and bivy flying in Karakorum and Himalaya Gear choices and filming techniques for aerial adventures Impact of weather phenomena like El Nino on flying conditions Regulations and permits for remote and protected areas Future exploration plans and bucket list destinations
gavin (00:07.214)
Okay. Ben, I'm calling this Ben Take Two. We've had a few people reach out and say, Hey, you gotta get Ben back on the show. He's been doing all kinds of cool stuff and you know, we're all addicted to your amazing videos. so y let's start there. I I we both think it's been about three years. I didn't actually look that up. I I think it has been about three years since the last time we we chatted and I was hoping to see over here
Ben Kellett (00:49.797)
Mm-hmm.
gavin (01:13.078)
in Monroe and Utah. We'll talk about that at some point here too, but make this part of your your stops. But tell me about your your you just said this is kind of your your itinerary you've been doing the last three years. And I didn't know you were doing the Tandemrat thing there in in Interlock and where you are right now. So yeah, let's catch us up to speed but also what what is your kind of yearly migration? You're kind of a bird.
Ben Kellett (01:39.13)
Yeah, hey, thanks heaps for having me back, Gavin. It's it's an honour as always and yeah, thank you so much and yeah, for what you're doing. I think it's awesome, really cool. yeah, so I've been doing the tandems, I've been flying tandems for like six years now. and I've been coming to Europe for the tandem season and the off season of New Zealand for the last three years. So I do the summers in in Lauterbrunnen, just south of Interlaken.
Yeah, it's great, you know, like I I so I migrate each year and I I typically what I do is the summer in New Zealand and then in the spring I'll go to northern India, somewhere in the Himalaya, and have a month of solo flying. Then I'll go to Europe and do the summer season in Europe and then I go back to the Himalaya in the autumn and then back to New Zealand again and that's kind of my schedule. the last few years I've been squeezing in trips inside the European season.
'Cause I've had time constraints on how much time I'm allowed to spend inside of the Schengen area thanks to Brexit. 'cause I'm British. And yeah, so I did some trips to Pakistan in the middle I went to to Canada and did some Volviv up there and Yeah, but that's kind of my schedule. New Zealand, Himalaya, Europe, Himalaya, New Zealand. Yeah, it's nice. Good fun.
gavin (03:01.646)
The from the outside that just sounds magical or there is it is it hard to balance the the tandem slash personal flying. We were talking about how good the weather's been in Europe this season and how much FOMO I've had watching XCO X Contests has just been cruel to me this year. It's every time I get on there, you know, Edward's doing another b big one. It's just been insane. It it's been an incredible season. It was April and then it was May and it
Ben Kellett (03:13.371)
Mm-hmm.
gavin (03:30.626)
just doesn't seem to give it up. It's or it's well it's giving it up every day actually, but it's it it doesn't seem to stop. how how do you do you just ignore those days when you're flying tandems and okay, I just can't do it or is tandems enough fun that it doesn't bother you?
Ben Kellett (03:46.468)
You know, it it depends where I am actually. Where I'm working in in Lauterbrunnen I'm I I'm not so bothered by it. It and it also depends on what type of client you get. fortunately where where we are, the flying's really good. and you know, we're right next to the Jungfrau and the Iger and the Monk, so if you get the right passenger and it's a great cross country day then it's actually super enjoyable. You can take them up to four thousand metres and fly over the glacier. And you know, that's it's it's pretty good fun.
I struggle more in when I'm working in New Zealand because I'm just I'm just yeah, I'm just it just holds too close to my heart. So if you ever and they're more there's not as many epic flying days there. So if it's a good cross country day then I wanna go and do my thing and fly in the backcountry, which obviously you can't you can't do with the client. We we fly close to the town. but here I seem to struggle less with it. because you can have some really magical flights on the tandem and it's pretty cool.
gavin (04:45.678)
Hmm.
Ben Kellett (04:45.741)
but yeah, you know, like and also when I'm in Switzerland I kind of have my head down a little bit more just because it financially makes more sense to me to work a little bit more here and then when I go to New Zealand I can just take the more days off. also the way that the schedule works for me, I have a lot more flexibility in New Zealand. I can sign out a lot easier at short notice. So if I see a good day coming up, then I can just
not go and fly tandem and I can just go and fly solo. Which is pretty cool. Like it's kind of unique actually. there's not many tandem gigs like that where they just let you take the day off at such short notice, which is yeah, we're super fortunate. but yeah, here I don't struggle too much because when you get the right client at the end of the day and you fly them over the young frow, it's super fun.
gavin (05:32.014)
What is your kind of jam these days? You know, g you put out these amazing videos, you know, it seems like you're you know, you're really into the Bivi. Wha what keeps you super stoked to keep up this yearly migration? I mean it's it's pretty intense. you know, you're you're doing a ton of airtime. What what what is it that you really keeps you jazzed?
Ben Kellett (05:45.592)
Yeah.
Ben Kellett (05:55.132)
Yeah, it's interesting, you know, because y I think we all go through like waves of motivation and like what drives you and I often ask myself that question, you know, like what do I want to do and what is the goal and what is the objective? And what what I've what I've found over the years is just not to set myself crazy objectives that, you know, like I I wanna fly this amount of distance or I wanna do this number or
You know, it's more for me about exploring and seeing areas in a unique way that you know and and and bivy flying and just and just seeing the world, and experiencing places and just getting in the air for the s for for the experience rather than chasing big numbers. I mean, like moving and migrating around the world like that, it's it's it's can be quite intense I guess 'cause you're constantly on the move, but you know
not having a wife and kids helps, I guess, 'cause that would be quite challenging, trying to move a family around like that. So that's that does that does make it easier. but yeah, you know, like more more and more now I fly for the experience and exploration rather than like trying to chase distance. And don't get me wrong, like and I'm and and and we all are a a little bit like this. We we we I think we always want to feel like we're making some sort of progression.
gavin (06:49.923)
Yeah.
Ben Kellett (07:16.367)
And that progression keeps me engaged. So if I can fly a bit further than I did the year before and I can do a bit of a bigger flight and I feel like I'm still improving, then it that also gives me motivation. But I'm not how bent on it, you know, like I'm not like I have to fly a three hundred K this year. And I'm a classic for flying a hundred and ninety nine Ks or two hundred and ninety nine you know, like I always miss it, you know? And yeah, so I I yeah, I don't really I don't really care too much about it, but it's it's nice to progress.
Yeah.
gavin (07:46.625)
Mm. Mm. What what's changed for you since last we talked? I I know that's got that's kind of a loaded question a lot, but you know, your your l let's start with some simple stuff. Your gear, you know, that you make these awesome films with, you know, you're that we talked about it last time, how good your audio is and stuff. If you have you upgraded there, are you still doing the same thing? Are you i is the objective still the same? What what have you changed with
Let's just start there. What have you changed with filming? What have you changed with trying to kind of bring your experiences to the outside world, which you do a very good job of?
Ben Kellett (08:21.017)
I I think mostly what I've done is actually draw it back and not allow the filming to really disrupt the experience too much. So there there did become a point where, you know, like I was like hanging like cam multiple cameras off me and trying to film every moment and stuff and it and it just became too much and it was like, what am I doing? you know, like am I doing I'm doing this for the fun of it.
And I like making videos to share the experience, but if it's really depleting the experience by making it uncomfortable to fly and having to fly with heavy batteries and hand cameras off, which which make it awkward, then then what's the point? so I think at some point I sort of said to myself, just bring it back, just keep it simple. Where I just use a headcam and I every now and again I pull out a selfie stick.
But if I'm not feeling up to it, then I just don't call the selfie stick out and I just roll with the head cam. I just keep it simple. And you know, I played a lot around with all sorts of different types of you know, like the three sixty cameras and things like that. And yeah, they can pull out some really cool images. but you have to find I I felt like I needed to find a compromise between simplicity and something that produces a really nice image. and
I d you know, I can do super complicated and shoot in in in log and with N D filters or in three sixty cameras and all this stuff and it makes really beautiful images, but it takes a hell of a lot of effort to to produce something out of it. So it has to be simple for the videography side. with the recording with the audio, I think I've more or less been running the same thing for for years now and sin that hasn't actually changed since we spoke last. It's really basic. I just have a GoPro.
with a it has a microphone adapter and I run a hardwired mic, just like a lapel mic, that just goes down the helmet and sits next to the ch to the chin, with with a dead cat on it. so it's just wired into the to the GoPro so it's all attached to the video already. I'm not running like an a separate audio and video track. and some t it works ninety five percent of the time. Sometimes i you know it doesn't work and it's not plugged in correctly or
Ben Kellett (10:41.157)
the microphone breaks or, you know, the the adapter breaks, you know, but most of the time it works pretty well.
gavin (10:47.619)
Hm. I'll I'll have to tap back into you well in advance of the next Ex Alps 'cause I I I continue to yeah, I don't do it as much as you do and and typically when I'm just normal flying I'm not doing any. And so, you know, I I have some pretty complicated amount of kit t f because of the
Ben Kellett (10:52.399)
There it's not.
Ben Kellett (11:01.967)
Yeah.
gavin (11:05.472)
organizational side. So I'm I'm filming with my phone on this awkward arm and the whole thing, but it's I'm hoping I can change that more to you know a DJI or a a GoPro with the but man, the mics and the amount of lines and lanyards and Jesus, it just it adds up and it's you know, it's already
You're already kinda racing and huffing and puffin' and it's yeah, it's a lot. I have to constantly remind myself, you know, Hey man, you're just filming. Don't kill yourself 'cause of this. It's it's a lot.
Ben Kellett (11:34.235)
Yeah. No, it looks t looks tough, And then you've also got to battle the connectivity and you know, live streaming from up there and it's yeah.
gavin (11:40.508)
I was flying with a Starlink in my lap. Yeah, it's and that didn't work. I I gave that a I tried that in the prologue. It didn't didn't work. It got too hot actually. I thought I was gonna blow up. It's amazing when you know when that thing struggles for it
Ben Kellett (11:45.888)
really?
Ben Kellett (11:53.082)
again, imagine a lithium battery fire.
gavin (11:55.648)
Yeah. man, I'm surrounded by plastic. This is a really bad idea. Yeah. But yes, I don't think we'll do that anymore. It was great having the Starlink just on the run, because that was always one of our you know, you think it's the Alps, it's great service, but just getting data out, you know, just getting stuff out is brutal. And you know, y you don't get it out in the first few hours, it's worthless, you know, then it's it's old news and done yeah, it's I was watching Ben Hodgson during the X pier and really feeling for them. They were having to pack their gear in ice and
Ben Kellett (11:59.814)
Yeah.
gavin (12:25.601)
My god, that looked brutal. So hot.
Ben Kellett (12:28.557)
Wow. Wow. there was a like a heat was like forty degrees. Like I spoke to some of the guys that came back from it afterwards. Wow.
gavin (12:32.571)
Yeah, every day. It just was unrelentless. Great flying. It looked like great flying, but it looked really hot. Yeah, you wouldn't want to be on the ground at two. okay, throw a dart at the board, pick an adventure. You've been doing beer, I think a couple times a year, Kerakorum. you mentioned Canada and some character building. Well d let's talk adventure for a while.
Ben Kellett (12:40.335)
Yeah.
Ben Kellett (12:49.423)
Yep.
Ben Kellett (12:57.177)
Yeah, sure. So I you know, just being trying to go to destinations for bivrac flying where I can sort of go on a bit of an adventure, you know, like I'm used to flying the backcountry in New Zealand, so I I'm not, you know, adverse to gambling a few days walking, for for a bit of excitement, to fly somewhere spectacular. So yeah, I did a couple of trips to the Karakorum in Pakistan, which was you know it's
It's it's an insane place. I mean I'm sure we've all seen some of the videos from the people that have gone there. It's a really special part of the world and the incredible people and the the flying is really unique because of the the the scale of the place and the size of the mountains. you're flying at h high altitude and we can see, you know, and a few of us have been saying it for years that this big four hundred K triangle is gonna go down at some point and Antoine's done it and hats off to him. Like that is
gavin (13:48.759)
Mm.
Ben Kellett (13:49.402)
You know, but y y when you go when you go and fly there you'll you'll understand that that will be the the the world record and if you want to go and beat it you have to go you have to go to Pakistan. I mean maybe there's a few other countries it could be possible, you know, like Tajikistan, maybe it's close, but you know, if you're flying at six, seven thousand meters all day, it's it you feel like you've got a tailwind in every direction. Like it's it it it it's really crazy. I mean i y it's a very different it's a different kettle of fish to
gavin (14:10.862)
Mm.
Ben Kellett (14:17.093)
to flying, you know, in the southern French Alps. you you know, there's not a a road in every valley and you have to have a different mindset. The air's different. It's definitely a full on place to fly. but yeah, I mean it's pretty impressive and yeah, th so that was incredible. So did some did some bivrack flying there and I and just
gavin (14:37.059)
What kinda Ben, what kind of stamina you know, comparing you know, we all know Antoine is just hard as a rock. That guy's is just nothing bothers him. It's i incredible how much he's willing to take on with a smile. But what kind of stamina did that take? Was it eleven and a half hour flight? you know, you're like you said, it's it's it's very thin air, you know, so your speeds are much higher.
even I'm imagining he was what did he fly on? I'm imagining he was on more of hike and fly kit than comp kit, right? Yeah, yeah. So so like Aaron did, you know, fly I think Aaron was on his Omega when he was when he was there flying that one. But what does that take w in in terms of just the mental toughness? 'Cause like you said the y there's big areas where landing out would be astonishingly bad, correct?
Ben Kellett (15:30.628)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. So I mean you can't just turn up and then the next day just go knock out an eleven hour flight in the Karakorum. It just doesn't work like that. You have to spend time acclimatizing, which is what Antoine and Veso have done is they've gone and they've spent two weeks, you know, flying up, landing at sort of four thousand metres, sleeping, going down, going back up again, you know, and and really acclimatizing because the r it I think I mean you know this because you you fly in really big big big air
in Idaho, but th the the oxygen systems are just not they they're just not reliable enough to do eleven out I don't think you like you'd need multiple tanks. and then if you do land somewhere, stupid, then you've got these oxygen tanks you've got to carry out. so for Bivarak flying it doesn't make any sense. so they ha you have to acclimatise because and then all day you're you're you're battling that because yeah you wanna be high because the air's thinner you fly faster
But at the end of the day you feel terrible when you're at seven thousand metres. Even if you've made some acclimatization, it's still really uncomfortable. and then you've got all of the Yeah, yeah, ex exactly. It it's it's it's not a great feeling. And then, you know, you've got the normal endurance of any long cross cross country flight. Plus you have these huge temperature differences 'cause you taking off at like three thousand meters and you're flying up to seven. So, you know, that could be a thirty degree temperature change. And I think that these guys
gavin (16:35.231)
Yeah, you're well into the death zone there. I mean you're just cooking your brain.
Ben Kellett (16:58.415)
We're saying it was like minus fifteen that day. So I mean you you know, and you're tak when you're taking off it's really hot as well. So you've gotten this huge variance and it sounds like they had to go around some pretty serious rain showers, which can be particularly scary there in the Caracorum 'cause you're 'cause you're close to the tropopause, the the the rate in which these thunderstorm clouds develop is a lot faster 'cause it just whacks into that inversion and then just spreads out. And
when you get these rain showers there it really rips through the valleys. It's like not a not a really fun place to be. So yeah, it's just everything on the extreme, plus having to deal with the altitude. and I I was flying there mostly well it was there in the July both times. And yeah, it's it's it's turbulent. it's definitely more turbulent than I'd say than than the Alps. You know, it's it's mountain flying. Yeah
But it's I think it's the other factors that really just compound to make it a challenging place to fly, where you have this problem with the altitude and the overdevelopment speed and and things like that. And then also the walk out, you know, like if you land in the wrong place, n you not only do you have to be willing to walk for several days, but you have to be quite a competent mountain person, able to operate at altitude and having all the equipment to do that. But and then on top of that, you know, you we don't have Rhaeger. Rhaeger's not knocking around in Pakistan, you know, like the
Helicopter rescue there is fairly limited. They you can get they can get military helicopters to rescue. You you would take like a minimum, I think, of twenty four hours to get anything anywhere. And they need a proper landing place. You know, like they don't have like winching capabilities. Like if you went in on the side of a cliff or something, then you're relying on people to go up with a stretcher and bring you down. So they need a a clear landing area and you they want you to like move all the rocks away and stuff, so
Rescue is definitely an issue there too. So yeah, it's not it's not the Swiss Alps, but it is beautiful and a really wonderful part of the world.
gavin (19:06.404)
What was it quite intimidating going for your first time? I I imagine it's you know, it's one of these things where what what what are what are we signing up for here?
Ben Kellett (19:18.319)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's you you you I just approached it and I just really increased my margin. And you know, like there's times where you've when you're flying your home site and you're happy to sort of push a little harder 'cause you know what it's like. And I think when I was flying in Pakistan I just sort of took it a bit easier. I had some really cool flights and I and I reminded myself like I'm not here to prove anything. I'm a I'm a I'm a aerial tourist. I wanna do some sightseeing. I wanna go fly next to the glaciers and you know, and if it's not the day, it's not the day. Like I'm
And and that's kind of like the attitude that I take into most of my flying is that like I I I'm not like I'm not trying to do like world firsts and break records and you know, like I like to fly as far as I can sometimes, but like I'm not not at any cost, you know. So if I think it's a bad day and I just is what I did in Pakistan, I just sort of increased that margin even more and just went, well, I'm not sure, I don't understand what's going on and if I don't understand what's going on then I'm happy to just go and land and save it for tomorrow.
gavin (20:15.312)
Hm. I is one of the factors, I mean, one of the things that really sh shone a light for me was a couple of years ago at at the World Cup when I was meat directing and you know, you have to factor this whole thing that you've got people at seventeen thousand feet and you know, potential gust fronts coming through, you you don't if you push that too far, it's gonna take some time for people to get to the ground. You know, they've gotta get down ten thousand feet, you know.
Ben Kellett (20:42.768)
Yeah.
gavin (20:43.36)
on a comp glider, which takes some time. You've got to factor that time in. Is that a big thing there? I mean, to me it's this is always one of the things flying here when you're when you're flying really high, especially if you're flying without O two, you're compromised, you know, you're trying to build in that margin, you're not thinking very clearly, you're cold, there's all these things. but but that's one of them is that, you know, okay, that thing's going pretty vertical.
I need a lot more time than I'm typically you know, in the Alps you just go land, often just top land at a cafe. You know, that it's you can you can get out of the sky typically pretty quickly. You know, it's a it's a remarkably good day to be even a thousand feet over the top of the of the peaks, you know, that whereas here you're you're you're often way tall. Is that I mean, I imagine that's one of the factors there. Also you can't just go land. Well, that's a glacier. You're not gonna land on a glacier.
Ben Kellett (21:38.096)
No, absolutely. it's just it's like you said, you know, like if you're at seven thousand metres and you wanna go and land down in the valley, you know, you've gotta descend, you know, five thousand metres. It's you're not gonna
just spiral down five thousand metres, like you just can't it just takes too long. So y you have to really an anticipate it. And you have like a green I just we call it like a green belt of altitude where like where they do most of the grazing around four thousand meters. So in certain places, you know, y y you could land at four thousand, but yeah, it's not landable everywhere. It's lots of jagged snow covered peaks and, you know, cliffs in a lot of spots. But yeah, I it it and that that that's kind of like
You just have to give yourself a b bigger margin. And you know what? Like there was a couple of times where I thought it was gonna explode and I went and landed and then it didn't. And I like, I could have kept flying, but I'd be happy to make that mistake in that direction ten times and not make it once in the wrong direction, you know? Like you you know, and it's just
gavin (22:40.506)
Yeah, if you get that wrong, that's an uncomfortable day.
Ben Kellett (22:43.971)
Yeah, exactly, you know, and look, I don't I don't wanna put people off going there. It's a beautiful place to go. The the people are amazing, the flying's incredible. you just have to go in there with your eyes open and understand that it's not the Alps and you know, the rescue is more challenging and maybe you just change it what time of year you go, you know, maybe you go more in the end of the season when things start calming down and it's it's more manageable, but it is the flying there is amazing. The people are great.
And yeah, yeah. I think a lot of people should should go and visit at some point. And maybe now Antoine's done this is gonna encourage a few people to go out, maybe for maybe for the wrong reason in my opinion, but at least they might be able to see it.
gavin (23:22.658)
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe they should leave that alone. Yeah, exactly. I mean that's Antoine. He's he's he's he's special. How are you dealing with oxygen there? You just rock up at a welding shop or can you get O two?
Ben Kellett (23:37.262)
Yeah, exactly. There's a welders so you c you there's a coup I think there's a couple of oxygen systems knocking around in in Hunza that y you can sometimes get your hand on. But otherwise we just I just sort of brought my own and then you just get it filled up at the welding shop.
gavin (23:51.312)
So you bring in a trans filler and everything?
Ben Kellett (23:54.116)
Yeah, but the well the guys at the welding shop were actually pretty good. They seem to actually have all of the the the attachments to to get it filled up, but it also does depend on like what bottle, you know, like how much they've got, you know, 'cause they you I mean you probably know this, but they will line them up in series and you can only get it as full as the bottle that they have is full. So sometimes you can only get it half full, and you know, then it's only good for like, you know, five hours. So what we were doing was because it's you ha probably have the same systems, it's like the on-demand pulse. so what I was doing
was just 'cause they they automatically start
giving you O two at I think like ten thousand feet or something, but you're taking off at that altitude. So and you're acclimatized to that level anyway. So there's there's no point in receiving any oxygen then. So what I was doing was just removing the cannula and pulling it further down and then just flying and then once I got to sort of five and a half thousand meters or I sort of started feeling a bit funky or whatever, then I just shoved the cannula in and take a a couple of gulps and you know, but if I dropped down to the lower altitude again then I I would I would just
gavin (24:30.714)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ben Kellett (24:57.127)
Pull it out. But to be honest with you, the best thing I think for there is is if you're because you can't just no one's going there for like a a week or two. If you're gonna go because the travel times are just so extreme, then you're better off just actually spending the time acclimatizing and just sleeping at altitude. I think it's safer. You know, if you if you're doing a cross-country flight there and you know you're planning on landing back in the valley at the end of the day, then for sure taking some oxygen is gonna make you
have better decisions, it's gonna keep you warmer and it's it's definitely worth it. But the majority of the flying that I was doing when I when I was there was was Bivi flying and then the oxygen's kind of just a bit of a burden, to be honest.
gavin (25:35.793)
Hmm. I always find the cannula thing, you know, if it if I pull it out, then I can't keep it back in when I want you know it's already stretched it too much or the you're just the my my advice for oxygen is don't go the first time and expect it all to work. You know, it's it's one of these things like anything that like a P tube, you know, it it takes practice. You just it's always a bit of a it's just it it's an added layer. Like the the 10,000 thing, my workaround for that is I keep the controller
Ben Kellett (25:53.967)
Yep.
gavin (26:03.833)
in a really easily accessible place, I just turn it off and on. you know, as otherwise if it's if it's on and you're not using it then it reminds you it's it's constantly telling you to breathe 'cause you haven't breathed in a while so you're getting that beep all the time and but then yeah, but then you know, if in a place like Pakistan you don't want to be taking your gloves off and it's too cold and there's yeah, it's just always it's always something.
Ben Kellett (26:07.843)
I see. Yeah.
Ben Kellett (26:24.379)
Yeah, I think it maybe my system's different, but it mine's like it the regulators on the bottle and then I put the bottle in the back of the harness so I can't actually adjust it. I think like there's better systems where you actually have like a control box that you can sit probably close to your cockpit. That's that's better. I I've got a cheaper Chinese version.
gavin (26:32.529)
Yeah. Okay, you can't get to it. Gotcha.
gavin (26:45.227)
Okay, yeah, yeah. I have the control box one and it's just a little switch. You can just you know, just turn it off or turn it back on. But you know, what I'm noticing now is, you know, a lot of a lot of folks are flying with two tanks. You know, they've got a two tank system. But man, that's you know, you for hiking that gets pretty unwieldy. It's not much fun.
Ben Kellett (27:05.773)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, it's it can be a bit much. But yeah, it's a it's a beautiful part of the world and and and I've re I'm I'm a little sad that I didn't go back this year, but you know, you can't be everywhere.
gavin (27:16.889)
Yeah. That's true. tell me about character building in Canada. When when were you I forgot that I I saw some of the stuff from that but I can't remember when you were there and what what were you doing? What was the mission?
Ben Kellett (27:28.967)
just ex it's just a classic just ex aerial exploration, being a tourist and just trying to see as much as I can. I went for a couple of weeks, I think it was like mid Aug mid to end August. and yeah, you know, like I'm I'm I'm used to
bit of pushwhacking in New Zealand, it's not completely foreign to me, so I d I'm I don't mind sort of putting in some some hours just trying to get through the scrub. But yeah no I did some baby flying there and had some really amazing flights and camp spots and I feel like I really just got a a taste enough to make me really want to go back 'cause it is a really beautiful part of the world and it's and it's pretty wild, you know. Like and but yeah I had a I definitely had a couple of days of landing landing down
in the valley because this is a tough thing and you know this right but for the listeners I guess that the the further south you go if you go south of Revelstoke the mountains are a little bit smaller and the bush line is higher so the the places that you're able to top land become smaller so I was like landing on these logging roads trying not to land right at the bottom of the valley and sometimes you'll pick out like a patch of which which you think is like clear
And what they've done is they've just delimbed all the trees. So by the time you've committed to this place and there's nowhere else, you just have this like patch of like like of trees without limbs, which is also like super terrifying to land in.
And then I was going up these logging trails trying to find my way to a takeoff, and the the logging trails are just sort of roads to nowhere. When they go up the hill, they're just sort of going back and forwards and through these different sections where they're being logging. and yeah, there was it was so funny because like the the maps that I had were saying, there's a clearing here, and I'd get to the clearing and it would just be like
Ben Kellett (29:17.301)
overhead height, scrub, bush. There's no way you can take off there and you just really have to go above the bush line. so you know, doing, you know, two thousand vertical meters in the in the au August heat, trying trying to get to top and following bear signs, bear poop everywhere and you know, like I'm not used to that at all. So I'm just Yeah, no, but it's great adventure. Everyone should go.
gavin (29:36.259)
Hmm, you're really selling it.
Ha ha.
Ben Kellett (29:41.08)
It's it's a real it was a you know, like it was character building. I think that's definitely like the best way to put it. But I de I didn't go and and and I didn't leave thinking like, my god, I'm never going back there. I just w I left going, my god, I wanna go back but maybe like in the middle of summer when the thermals are really good, and I don't have to do quite as much walking. But be and the community there is really cool actually. Like I hung out in Revel Stoke and and the and the flying community there is super cool and
Yeah, it's myself flying, you know, it's wild to do do some Bivi and see see the sights and using a paraglider to sort of access these places that are just super hard to reach. And can't I think the Canadian Rockies is like the one of the best places for that, right? It's the same like New Zealand and and the Karakorum and the Himalaya and all these places. Yeah.
gavin (30:24.761)
Epitome, yeah.
gavin (30:29.775)
Yeah. I mean that range, you know, that you know, kind of the golden range when you're up on top of that stuff flying from Golden down towards Cranbrook and all that, you know, the you're you're looking in the back door of of Banff and Canmore and the Cinnaboyne, you know, Will Gad did this cr really cool I mean, the whole time we were on that trip he was
He kept going, We should just make the end of the trip of Cinnaboyne. I've always wanted to go out there and it's this you know, it kinda looks like the Matterhorn. It's it really does look like the Matterhorn. It's I there were times where, you know, we were really we were kinda at the end of the season like you were, and it was getting really stable and and and we were very much you know, it was getting real hard to make it, you know, to get down to the
Ben Kellett (31:01.563)
Yeah.
gavin (31:19.461)
down to the border. So there was a lot of very focused flying and I kept having to remind myself, like, dude, dude, you've got a job here. Stop looking around so much. But it's just, God, it's spectacular. It's so pretty. And and like you said, so committing in a lot of ways too. I mean there were often hours I you know, I back then I I I still don't have this move at all. I mean maybe if you're if you've got that Patrick von Cannel kind of land anywhere you could
Ben Kellett (31:31.989)
No, it's it's amazing.
gavin (31:49.158)
find some places, but there it was often just, you know, two hours, three hours of flying where there's nowhere to land. I mean you could land in the lake, but but assuming that's not a good option, you know, there was just okay, we gotta keep going. You just gotta keep going. Yeah, yeah, it's just you know and it and it
Ben Kellett (32:06.201)
Yeah, the the the the floor is lava, right? Just keep keep going.
gavin (32:12.443)
Amazingly it would work, you know, but you're just you're totally breaking the rule. This is not what you're supposed to do. You're you're always supposed to have an L Z inside. Yeah, no, I mean where you were, you know, you could fly down to the valley and and it's not you know, it's not so critical. But like you said, I mean these logging cuts from the sky, yeah, that that looks decent. And then you you fly over them and you know, you're you're definitely gonna break a leg. You a and fall off a tree and f
Ben Kellett (32:21.615)
They they're opening it up.
gavin (32:39.707)
fall to the floor twenty feet below. I mean these logging cuts are nasty. They they're they look great, but they are not LZs.
Ben Kellett (32:47.609)
Yeah, yeah, I I remember one I s like I I just had to do a sled ride to get back to the road and I flew down from like two and a half thousand meters and from two and a half thousand meters it looked great. It was beautiful. And then I just get closer and closer and that's like the only one show I'm like, awesome. They've just taken all the limbs off the tree, so now I have to try and land in between them, you know. But They're they're opening it up more and more, right? You can fly inside Banff now and the the other national parks are becoming more accessible, which is which is pretty cool.
gavin (33:11.408)
Mm.
gavin (33:15.649)
It is very cool. That's just in Canada. That's not happening down here, unfortunately. But yeah, I think Will has spearheaded that effort and and yeah, I think y YOLO was the first and but it yeah, that's awesome. I hope that keeps happening. That's really cool.
Ben Kellett (33:24.089)
Yeah, amazing.
Ben Kellett (33:31.586)
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's a tough one because I mean like
Paragliders seem to sort of in in in some ways it's good but some ways it's challenging, get sort of tarred with the same brush as any other sort of aviation. we had like some problems in New Zealand where th they were talking about changing the regulation and you know, 'cause it basically they just don't want helicopters coming in and like landing wherever they want, right? Which I get. You you know, you're in the national park in the backcountry doing a beautiful hike and this big noisy machine comes and turns up and drops off a load of tourists, it kind of ruins the vibe a little bit. But at the end of the day I think paragliders are quite
gavin (33:52.963)
Yeah, yeah. Totally.
Ben Kellett (34:05.405)
They're vastly different aircraft. So as long as we're not tied with the same brush, it can it can work. But yeah, hard work from people like Will and other people that sort of quietly behind the scenes chip away at these organizations it i is amazing. it's yeah, yeah, good on
gavin (34:23.378)
Have you got i do you have a l limitations like that in New Zealand?
Ben Kellett (34:28.397)
Not so much, no. there was there was a a a phase a couple of years ago that
There was a point where that it was like technically we fell under the Bratisane bracket and it was technically not allowed, but we managed to get an exemption through the NZHGPA who did a lot of legal work to make make it technically allowed for us to fly in the national parks and land on conservation land. But no, we have you know, airspace restrictions like any place. There are busy areas with helicopters, but in terms of public land and conservation land, you can more or less
It's you can land and take off and fly and it's it's n it's not a problem. Yeah.
gavin (35:07.442)
Tell about beer and your your adventures in in that part of Himalaya.
Ben Kellett (35:12.963)
Yeah, so I mean y you know, you've been there before. It is a really it's it's an amazing part of the world and the the the flying there is spectacular and it's especially the you know, sort of in the autumn for Bivi flying, the consistent weather and so I've just sort of been making these biannual trips in between the European and the New Zealand season. Just for a month. It's quite nice, it breaks up the journey 'cause it's like a thirty three hour journey and
Get a bit of a holiday, but yeah, just been doing the classic sort of bivy flying in in in beer and doing some bivy trips into Ultracan in the in the autumn, but more recently, in the spring, I went with Matt Johnson to Ultracan and we sort of based ourself there.
with the intention of trying to fly close to Nandadevi and Kedanath and these these big mountains that are closer to the Nepali border. And yeah, it's it's amazing. It's it's really cool. Lots of people have flown through there, but I think typically the people flying there, they've started in beer and they're doing the sort of Bivi pilgrimage to the Nepal border. So there's a few track logs that go through there, but I don't really know I maybe sort of like John John Sylvester and Eddie Colfax back in the days have gone there and done
like based themselves there and and done these these flights around. But yes, definitely not a a well trodden place to fly. so that was super cool. We spent I spent about seven weeks there this spring trying to find a sensible place to take off, sort of navigating the permits because you know man, like as soon as as soon as we landed, you know, like
whole village came out and then we had the Forest Service, the military, the police, you know, everyone's just you just p pulling at me to the police station and
Ben Kellett (37:02.587)
so yes you can't get if you land down in the villages then there's there's no getting away with it. if you're just sort of doing the bivy flight from beer and you're staying on the tops then you know no one sort of seems to notice. But if you want to actually go there for a for an extended period of time then you you need to get the permits. but yeah that was amazing. We did some really cool flying. We we
You know, did some flights up to Nandadebi, we flew over the Kedanath Temple, got into a bit of hot water there actually, 'cause yeah, they didn't like that. But yeah, that's it's actually quite a h high traffic area for the helicopters.
gavin (37:31.792)
Really? What'd they do?
Ben Kellett (37:38.128)
because they they they basically shuttle tourists up from the one of the towns to the south and drop and they drop supplies up to the temple. 'Cause it's like a it's like a thirty K hike, it's like a massive trek for these guys. It's like a religious s religiously significant pilgrimage that they do. And you've got to the permits are complicated 'cause you we got a permit issued by the Ultracan Tourism Development Board, but then outside of that you need to notify each district like
gavin (37:38.182)
Ben Kellett (38:07.553)
leader like I don't know what this title is, but you have to contact each district and tell them that you're gonna go flying there. And we missed one. and so then we got our permits revoked for a few days and it was a bit of a hoo-ha but we we managed to get it back in the end. Yeah yeah.
gavin (38:09.404)
Hmm.
gavin (38:23.158)
I John used to say, Sylvester used to tell me, you know, I did my first Bivi ever with him out of beer. It was, you know, ver very instructive and instrumental.
but he used to tell me when they when he did that big one, you know, with Antoine and everybody way, way, way back in the day, that it was basically all he packed extra in his bag was a pair of underwear. That was it. You know, 'cause he could just rely on these communities and just, you know, float in like a bird and he literally was a bird, so he didn't require much sustenance. But you know, he'd flo he'd float in and get some milk and various get some eggs and
Ben Kellett (38:39.692)
No, they're told everybody way, way, way back to the man.
gavin (39:02.392)
and carry on. Yeah. How how are you kind of how does your pack change? What do you what do you bring in? What's your what's your kit list? Is it any different than in other places?
Ben Kellett (39:13.339)
not so much. I tend to fly with a bit more food when I'm there just because I know that there's like so many flyable days in a row. Then especially in the autumn, because it's so consistent, then if I take four days of food and and I can just keep going for longer. I think
gavin (39:22.31)
No.
Ben Kellett (39:31.888)
There's definitely like it's it's way easier to resupply there than other places like Canada or New Zealand or something because you have these temples at altitude, you have these high mountain passes and you can sort of land at the top and they you know, you have chai shops in like the most random of places and you're always bumping into shepherds and who are super generous and you it's easier to find food and resupply there. so and and typically because
The flying there's so good,
I don't eat as much because I'm not hiking. You know, like I just top I I f I like to try and when I'm there I I like to try and fly in the strongest part of the day. I take off when I I know it's definitely working and I land like two or three hours before I think it's gonna shut down. So I'm flying like five hours a day, maybe six, you know, like I'm I I play it conservative because for me it's not about doing as many kilometers as possible, but it's about the experience of, you know, doing some camping, making a fire, enjoying the sun.
set and you know and because I'm sort of stationary I don't really have to eat as much food. If you were like hiking up and down and
then you just burn more calories. So I think there I kind of change my style a little bit and if I was baby flying in New Zealand then maybe I'd probably be taking a few more calories in the expectation of having to do a bit more hiking. I mean but it's also different to the Alps. Like the Alps like the baby flying here is like like luxury. Like I I don't take a stove or anything, you know, 'cause it's so easy to resupply. You'll just take a sandwich and some cheese and, you know, before you know it you're at a refuge and they've got cold beer or something. So yeah. I yeah, it's definitely a bit different.
gavin (40:41.618)
Mm.
gavin (41:08.124)
So civilized, I love it. Mm.
Ben Kellett (41:10.325)
Yeah, it's 'cause it's it's it's definitely different, you know, and you move around you like, this is you know, like th I get this question so much for flying tandem and people say, you know, like where's your favourite place to fly? And I still don't have a good answer to that. it's because everywhere's different, you know, the the flying is different, the culture's different, the style's different, you know, like and it's in flying in the Swiss Alps it's it's pretty luxury 'cause if you land in a valley you can just jump on a train and you're gonna be home for dinner and y there's a restaurant car
gavin (41:14.597)
Yeah.
Ben Kellett (41:40.192)
and you know like it's you know it's it's it's it's a whole different kettle of fish and it it and it's and it's nice but I also like the adventure I like going places where people can't access with a cable car or you know like even like the flying that we did in Ultracans you like we're flying along some of these glaciated mountains and looking at ridgelines and rocks that we're like there's no
reason for any human to have come here before, you know, like it's not on any climbing route, you know, it's not like on the way up to Nanda Devi or Trishel or n Nanda Gunty it's just completely off the beaten track, just up the random valley at, you know, five and a half thousand meters and we're looking at these huge Saracs going how many humans have even looked at this, you know, and th that's it's pretty special feeling, you know, being able to access these places like that.
gavin (42:30.909)
What's on your you I don't know if you have a bucket list. I think you're ticking them off pretty good, but if if i if you shake up this kind of migratory pattern that you've got in the next few years, have you thought about that? What are some places that are still on your list of want to want to go?
Ben Kellett (42:49.089)
I'd I'd love to do
It's it's it's a long list. I'll I'll I'll I'll pick out some highlights. But Central Asia I think definitely appeals to me. it it aligns with my schedule quite well. but you know certainly Kyrgyzstan I think looks really interesting and cool place to fly. Lots of like grassy meadows and big mountains. They've got seven thousand metre mountains there. Tajikistan also looks really cool, bit drier, a bit further south, closer to to sort of the Karakoram and Pakistan, the Pamir Highway.
pretty hardcore I think you'd I'd want to go there with a with a buddy it seems looks a bit full on. the the Caucus Mountains looks amazing. I you know like I
I I a few people have flown there already. There's definitely like some complications there with permits and things like that because it's proximity with Russia. The Russian border run runs along the main divide and there's a section in the middle of the Georgian part which is contested. I think they're looking for independence and you can't fly there, so it wouldn't be like a big sort of bivouac expedition, but just to go up and and fly it fly around in the the parts that you can I think would be super cool. I've never been
There and Nepal, Nepal's definitely on the list. I think that's just gonna fall into the same sort of schedule as India. I think the flying's amazing, but it there is also complications with the with the permits there. from my understanding, is that you can get permits to fly in different regions, but like Bivi flying there is it's not technically permitted.
Ben Kellett (44:30.911)
And I'm sort of at the point now where I'm not really if I'd go and do do do a trip like that I wanna do it by the book. I'm you know
do it I want to go there and and and and leave in a way that I feel like I'd be welcome to come back and because of a large part of what I do now and making more of these films and flying documentary style stuff and the social media stuff which is becoming a big part of what I'm doing then I you know I'm just not really willing to go and just sort of break the rules and post everything online. I think it's just yeah it's just not my style. So if if if
gavin (45:04.081)
Yeah, it's taggy.
Ben Kellett (45:06.253)
Yeah, exactly. So I I if I can get the right the right the right permits and and I've been pr pretty successful. I b like this trip that we did in UltraCand and and going it in about it in the right way and going through the tourism board and
you know, it helps when you can make s you know, sort we made sort of a a bit of a relationship with the with the tourism office and did a bit of promotion for them and in the videos and and stuff like that. So once you've got the support of the g the government body, then the stress is completely free. And it was actually pretty funny because, you know, when we we did some of these first flights in UltraCan, we landed in the village and I was saying before that the police and the military and everyone came out and wanted to, you know, line us up and shoot us. Not not literally.
But like they were not they were not happy. And then sort of Raj, who was a friend of mine who was kind of working as a as a translator and sort of fixer for us, he presented them the permit on the paper, and they're What the hell is this? you know, whatever, you know, get rid of that. And then Raj phones up the the government official and and he gets him on the phone and passes the phone to the police officer. And as soon as they he picks up the phone, he's like,
Yes, sir. Sorry, sir. Of course, sir. I I apologize, you know, like this and passes the phone back and then he realizes, you know, and then they started calling Raj, sir. And yeah, it was r yeah, it's absol absolutely yeah, it was quite funny actually. But but yeah, if you go about it in the right way, I think definitely would be really cool to do some flying flying in Nepal, but
gavin (46:19.876)
Wow.
gavin (46:23.675)
That's all who you know.
Ben Kellett (46:37.145)
Yeah, you know, exploration. I mean bucket list best pla place I'd I'd want to go ever would probably be Tibet, but we can probably scratch that one off the list. I don't think the Chinese will be pretty keen, but yeah.
gavin (46:47.507)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's yeah, tricky. what about Mongolia?
Ben Kellett (46:56.313)
Mong yeah, I haven't done a lot of research in Mongolia, a a few people have mentioned it to me ab about doing it's I guess it's on the northern end of Mongolia. There's some interesting sort of grassy ranges, pretty wild place. Yeah.
gavin (47:08.743)
Yeah. Sounds like we've kinda missed the sweet spot there. I I think we're late, you know, Mongolia's going through some really radical change and you know, the mining and and just the numbers and yeah, I think we I think we missed the really sweet time, but it looks looks pretty magical. I mean along the lines of Kyrgyzstan and Jigistan and it's just the the stands look really cool.
Ben Kellett (47:17.477)
Mm-hmm.
Ben Kellett (47:31.439)
Yeah.
Yeah, d absolutely and a really interesting sort of part of the world I think that I'd I'd love to learn a bit more about the culture there. But from my understanding it's sort of like is Islamic Russians, you know. you know, there's kind of this area where they you they speak Russian and they're like Russian Muslims I I guess in in in that area. But the the mountains look amazing and and Kyrgyzstan it's a grassy grassy mountains. It looks it looks incredible. so I would love to go there, but you know, I'm also y
also very fortunate that, you know, I I you know, living in New Zealand and the Swiss Alps, like, you know, I can't complain. Like the the Southern Alps of New Zealand is a is a really spectacular place and we did some pretty like last the last season was challenging with the weather, but the days that we did have were were really cool. we flew in a lot of places that we've never flown before and yeah, did some cool flights. So so there's still a lot to explore in in in in these places. So yeah.
gavin (48:10.312)
Mm-hmm.
gavin (48:29.451)
Mm, always. Is is your is your financial reality with just with the tandems or are the are the f films affording you a little bit as well? Is that part of your income?
Ben Kellett (48:44.015)
Yeah, totally. So it's kind of shifting. I kind of set myself a sort of career goal of trying to sort of not depend on tandems for a hundred percent of my income. through social media and videos that I make online. Plus I've sort of started sort of dipping more into sort of the film festival stuff now. I made a I made a film for the New Zealand Mountain Film Festival that that that did pretty good and
gavin (48:47.887)
Excuse me.
Ben Kellett (49:10.893)
trying to sort of make that a part of what I do. But also I think it's really good to sort of have for for me to have a bit of diversity that I'm not relying on one or the other. Being able to sort of rely on both actually is really cool because yeah, for sure I could quit tandems and just do the solo flying social media filmmaking stuff full time. But then the I I'd have to be less selective with the sort of brands that I'd be working with and you know that's that's not kind of you know I
I get like a lot of emails from just random companies that you know have no relevance to what I'm doing, wanting to do collaborations and you know I turn a lot down because it's just is I I want to be able to pick and choose. and you know if somebody wants me to make a video for them and really sell out on putting like links in my bio for selling their product and all of this stuff, and at the end of the day, if I can
I just go fly tandem for the day and I can tell them to that I don't want to do it, then then that's cool and I can be w way more selective with who I actually want to work with because Yeah, I just don't wanna sell myself out just for the the sake of making a buck, you know. I d I I it's nice to have options, I think.
gavin (50:25.894)
Yeah, yeah, good for you. you mentioned, you know, it's easier doing this without, you know, wife and family. Is that on the radar? Is that something you're looking at in the next f five, ten years? Or is that just has to fall into your lap?
Ben Kellett (50:37.755)
This is a a pup a public service announcement for all of the female paraglider pilots out there. Nothing on the cards yet, Gavin, but yeah, always always on the lookout. Yeah, if someone with a European passport, that would save me some complications. but no, no, nothing in the pipeline, much to the dismay of my mother, but she's already got a few grandkids, so pressure's off.
gavin (50:49.736)
Th this'll be the first thing that I'll put on Instagram is this this answer.
gavin (51:06.248)
There you go. There you go. That was wise. Yeah, just yeah. Fill the bend somewhere else. Fantastic. The the okay, but but on the tandem side of things, I I think a lot of people, you know, I know 'cause I've been there and I have a lot of friends that fly tandems and that kind of interlock and so I I know you're up in Louderburden, but it's pretty full on. I mean you're you're doing what, eight flights a day, six flights a day, it's it's it's
Ben Kellett (51:09.327)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
gavin (51:34.735)
It's it's not easy I wouldn't call it easy work. you know, it it leaves less in the tank, you know, on day six when, you know, a really good day pops and you want to go fly ten hours. But you're also living in Switzerland. I just did this kind of tongue in cheek article, I don't know if you saw it for for XC Mag about, you know, going to the Alps. And in Ed very specifically asked for something like that. It's you know, I I tried to make that so hopefully people get it that I was trying to be funny. But, you know, it is it is an expensive place.
Ben Kellett (52:01.616)
Yeah.
gavin (52:04.36)
to live. D does that all kind of pan out? Your your you make enough that it it still works living in New Zealand I'm sorry, in in Switzerland and the costs all work.
Ben Kellett (52:16.941)
Yeah, absolutely. No, it's
It's fine financially I mean it's to be honest with you, Gavin, it's ridiculous. Like you know, like it's a really fun job and you you you're well paid for it. and y you know, the the it's quite consistent. The the season here is long enough that you can take days off, rostered days off, we get lots of flyable days, especially up here I think for like I mean this season's been pretty exceptional, but it's un it's not uncommon for us to have a month when we only have two non flyable days. So you can really work it like a a nor normal job, yeah. It's
gavin (52:46.932)
Wow.
Ben Kellett (52:49.731)
it's it's it's really cool. and yeah, no, it's the cost of living in Switzerland is obvious obviously quite high, but it's relative to what you earn. So that the it's it's it's not a poorly paid job. it it financially it makes sense. and to be honest with you, I really I really love it. I d you know, like I it I've I've as I said I've been flying tannins for about six years and
It's it's great fun. It's and I really do treat it like a it's a different genre of flying, right? And I mean paragliding is becoming this sport where we've got so many different genres and categories, you know, from acro flying to cross country to competition, parakeites, speed flying, and tandem really is just another category that you can get good at.
And you know, we've all been on these popular flying sites and you can see the good tandem pilots and you can see the bad ones and if you have a bit of pride and it's good and you wanna progress and get better then being a really good tandem pilot and doing really
controlled takeoffs and landings and offering a good experience for the customer and doing thermal flying. You know, I d I do like a you know, maybe a hundred and fifty hours a year just on the tandem and and and, you know, le learning to fly close to the cliff and stuff like that. You know, and I I love it and I I wouldn't I wouldn't give it up. You know, like if
gavin (54:01.758)
Wow.
Ben Kellett (54:11.001)
Yeah, sure, it'd be really cool to just do the solo flying year round, but to be honest with you, I get tired of both. You know, like it's it does become a point where I feel like I've flown too many tandems and I need to just take a step back. But I get like that with the solo flying too. Like, you know, if I go on a eight week trip to, you know, the the the Himalaya or something, and by the end of it I go, god, I can't wait to go and fly my tandem and not like sort of have to think about keeping my glider open at high altitude, you know, like so it's it's nice to have change. I think a bit of
gavin (54:34.356)
Mm.
gavin (54:38.494)
Mm. So it keeps it all yeah.
Ben Kellett (54:41.783)
Yeah, you know, a bit of diversity. I I I think it's good. It it's a wonderful job. you know, being able to fly every day, it's yeah, I can't you can't complain about it. Yeah.
gavin (54:52.222)
How did you get into it? Was that down in Queenstown? Originally?
Ben Kellett (54:55.577)
Yeah, exactly. so there's I was actually really fortunate because it's in Queenstown
there's a company called G Force Paraglide and they fly right above the city and it's a really professional outfit, you know, like and they have quite a stringent sort of training and mentorship amongst the team. There's lots of really experienced tandem pilots that have been doing it for a long time and they have really high standards that they expect from you to deliver, you know, safe, controlled takeoffs and landings and they're really great at like teaching you. So I really fortunate at the beginning of my career to sort of be taken into the team and and and taught really well.
and to sort of have a high standard. 'cause a lot of the times you y you know, you see it in some places tandem pilots they just really don't care. They just s you see them just spudding their passengers into the ground and you know, and they maybe they just don't have the mentorship or the expectation for them to do a really good job. But yeah, no, the tandem flying in New Zealand's where I started and I was quite fortunate to be sort of taken into that team. Yeah.
gavin (55:56.639)
D do i when you went to Switzerland and started flying tandems there, is that y I'm assuming you had to get all relicensed or does that cross over? You know, in the nautical world when I went to New Zealand I had to get everything again. You know, they didn't look at any of my US Coast Guard stuff and go, Yeah, that's yeah, I had to do it all over again. Is that was that the same with flying? 'Cause I know it it's quite str it's quite hard to get your tandem license in Switzerland, isn't it?
Ben Kellett (56:16.929)
Yeah, exactly. So I mean like the
Ben Kellett (56:22.947)
Yeah, that's right. It's it's probably one of the more difficult countries in the world. It's quite stringent. they do accept your experience and if you've got say like a thousand tandem commercial tandems under your belt, then you can you can provide a logbook and reference letters and stuff like that. They they allow a bit of a simplified entry. You still have to sit all of the exams, but you can do it
in a shorter time frame. But there's there's three exams, two one one theory and two practical. One is solo, one is tandem. and it's quite strict, you know, and there's a lot of debate whether it's a good system or not. But I think what's awesome is that they have a system and it is quite thorough, you know, like you have to perform certain maneuvers, you have to land inside the circle, you know, do some top landings and touch and goes and
things like that and yeah, there's a a lot of people's question whether, you know, if you land with one foot outside the circle but you land it safe, whether that should count or not. But I think in the end the guys doing the exams, the examiners just got tired of people arguing and just said, no, look, these are the rules. And it's it's very Swiss, like there's no yes, no, maybe. It's like you're either in or you're out. And it just makes it easy for them to to to do it. But you know, each country has has different different
standards, it's definitely a a lot easier to get your license to fly commercial tandems in New Zealand. And Switzerland is takes a a lot longer and is more expensive. but yeah I d it took me a summer. I came over and did it in I think like three months, just the Schengen visa. And Yeah. Yeah yeah the the tough thing is is because you
gavin (57:55.369)
Really? It took that long? wow.
Ben Kellett (58:01.957)
The th it's only like the theory takes, you know, a couple of hours, you have to go to university and you do it under like exam conditions, like the the the theory is quite full on. And then the the solo test is two days and the tandem is like one day, but they they're not
You can't just do it all in a week. There's like a time gap between when they do the exams 'cause they only do say like six a year or something. So you have to sort of line it all up with their schedule, which can be can be challenging, but lot lots of people have failed. Lots of lots of famous, very good solo pilots, you know, press professional pilots have fa have failed.
gavin (58:35.007)
Yeah, I've heard.
gavin (58:43.123)
Yeah.
Ben Kellett (58:43.523)
Yeah, so you d you have to go out and practice the maneuvers that they want you to do. It's a little bit arbitrary that if you can do a figure eight in twenty seconds, it doesn't mean you're a good pilot. It just means that you can do a figure eight in twenty seconds, but you know and you've you've got to set the bar somewhere, right?
gavin (58:55.998)
Yeah.
Right. Yeah. I mean I guess it in a sense that that you've got a train for it is is fantastic, even if it's arbitrary, you know, that you've gotta you've gotta put in you know, A, you gotta show that you're you're dedicated to this and you wanna do it. And it's not just a sign off, which it mostly is here. I'd rather have that. If I was a passenger and didn't know anything about what I was doing and I was going to a tandem pilot, I'm going to Switzerland. Yeah.
Ben Kellett (59:07.322)
Yeah, it's good.
Ben Kellett (59:14.651)
Yeah, ex exact having something may
Ben Kellett (59:23.183)
Yeah, I mean like for sure, some people are gonna slip through the net, but it it's it's making it more difficult for your average pilot.
who's not particularly good just to accidentally find themselves flying commercial tandems when they shouldn't be. so it it's it's it's good. It's good. I mean the the only sad thing I I would say that you we see I'm still sort of starting to see more and more, which I'm not sure what I how I feel about it, is people as you see it here, they they make it as a career choice. They're starting to learn to paraglide to become a tandem pilot, not for the love of the sport. And that is a little bit sad to me.
gavin (59:57.534)
Yeah, yeah. Hmm.
Ben Kellett (01:00:01.166)
I can see why. it's you know, in some places it's quite well paid. You're flying, you're outside every day, it's a cool job, but
I think if you don't go and bank those hours and do like five, six hundred thousand hours on the solo glider when the ship really hits the fan and the conditions become challenging, then you're not gonna have that skill to really adapt to the conditions. You're you're gonna be the best pilot in the world in flying that one site in benign conditions all the time. But as soon as things get tricky then yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's a tough one.
gavin (01:00:33.589)
Hm. Yeah, good point. I mean, I know in in France you can't be an instructor unless you're a really good pilot. You know, you've flown World Cups and you're pretty highly ranked and I don't know exactly how it works and this might be half BS, but I know that it's you know, that it's we're we're seeing that here, you know, you can go you can get your tandem license
really fast. Y you know, and I you're you're in a sense you've kinda missed some of the building blocks of just what it is to be a pilot, which makes me nervous.
Ben Kellett (01:01:09.475)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean the French system I think is probably the the most stringent in the world and it's kind of I think down to the way that they have it set up, which I think's quite good actually, because basically they don't have like a commercial tandem pilot's license. You're an instructor. And there's I don't think there's any technical just
gavin (01:01:11.253)
You don't have the foundation.
Ben Kellett (01:01:30.149)
commercial flight they're actually schools so each one is like your kind of like an instructional tandem sort of thing but in order to become a tandem pilot in France you have to do a a two-year apprenticeship a course you know like it's a college course it's really stringent and you only get accepted to that if you prove that you're like a really good pilot so you have to you have to do well in the French league which is obviously super competitive you have to be a top acropilot you know like you can't just go and not everyone can just go and do the course.
gavin (01:01:45.821)
Yeah.
Ben Kellett (01:02:00.126)
Like you get selected for it, and it takes two years. So what that also does is it makes a lot of instructors, which is, I think, sensible in protecting the sport because now you have an abundance of instructors. Whereas in every other country, you know, all the money is in flying tandem, right? Teaching, you have to be passionate about teaching. Unless you own the school and you you have a really good school, it's way easier just to go and fly a tandem.
and and get paid that way. And what that's what most people do, they just get the commercial tandem licence and they just go, you know, clock in, clock out, fly tandems and forget about it. Whereas in France, it creates loads of instructors and I think that brings more people to the sport and I think it's sensible.
gavin (01:02:41.703)
Mm. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. okay, last question, bud. What's next? Is is are you gonna change anything up? You shift you shaking anything up in the next couple of years with this migration you've got? What's what's what are you planning at night? What's keeping you up?
Ben Kellett (01:02:53.211)
Maybe.
Ben Kellett (01:02:57.839)
Yeah, you know, I haven't got anything major on the cards and it and it really does t th th there's a lot of stuff that I still wanna do in New Zealand and I guess for me
the the shift is is maybe pushing my career a little bit more to the filmmaking side and and doing a bit more of that and finding cool places to do it. And that kind of opens up the door to cooler places that are less flown, which is really what I'm more and more becoming passionate about is going to new places that not many people have been on a paraglider and really exploring and and and showing it in a different way. And I think shifting my career more in that direction will open the doors. But yeah, like the places that I I I spoke before. But I mean
I think for now I'm quite happy with the schedule. But like just sort of moving where I am, maybe in the spring and the autumn I'm at the moment in India, but shifting that maybe to Nepal or other places in Central Asia I think would be quite cool. But yeah. I've got
yeah, I've got this this film that I I made for New Zealand which is gonna be in the Koopi car, which is pretty cool. So I'm looking forward to presenting that. And then I've got this other one that we made we made from India in UltraCan, which is now with the editor, and hopefully I can get that out by the end of the year. That's that should be really got some really amazing scenic shots. So yeah, working on that and then I need to go to the drawing board and see, but I'm certainly gonna be going back to the Himalaya in the
in the autumn and then we'll see what the summer brings in New Zealand. I'm hoping we're gonna get some good weather 'cause yeah, yeah, that's where I'm really passionate about flying.
gavin (01:04:31.717)
yeah, we we didn't talk about we talked about before we started recording but this super El Nino, this n you know, this major weather phenomenon that's that's happening and and what it what it's going to produce. Really hot, but very high base, very low wind, it just so many three hundred plus FAIs you can't even count anymore. It's been ridiculous. But what's
Ben Kellett (01:04:36.65)
yeah.
gavin (01:05:01.171)
What do you anticipate for New Zealand? What do you anticipate for, you know, the world of flying with this with this weather I don't know if you even call it an event. It's wouldn't be an event, isn't it? It's a weather locked in system for a while.
Ben Kellett (01:05:17.049)
Yeah, it's in it's interesting actually, you know, because you know, you can definitely go down a bit of a rabbit hole and I I mean to a certain extent it is a bit crystal ball gazy, but there does seem to be some logic behind and I kind of seen it from the seasons that we get in New Zealand, we s we do seem to be affected by it, but
There's definitely a tactical way to approach it I think because some places maybe get windier, some places get hotter and drier and I think maybe being you know, I can sort of look at going to Australia or something like that. But I think typically in New Zealand we get a lot more northwesterly wind. so the east side of the divide is particularly dry hot and we get these sort it's kind of like ferny wind that happens quite a lot. But with this drier climate caused by it, then it can also when the winds do die down.
Die down on the few days that we get, then it could produce some pretty massive days. And I was looking back because they said that the last big one was in 2015-2016, and that's when Nick did the record and John Smith did it on the Hang glider. That's this it's the same year, so we could get some really, really big days. So it's I I don't think it's all doom and gloom. I think the more reading you do online from people making documentaries and news articles about it, I think they like to put it more on the
negative side maybe it's easier way for them to get views on the website or or video just making it seem something really bad but I think there could be a positive spin. Yeah exactly right so I'm I'm I'm not my glass is half full.
gavin (01:06:49.148)
Mm, okay. So but but in general, worse, but you could have some really good days.
Ben Kellett (01:06:55.767)
I think we're gonna get less flyable days in total, but the days that we do get will be magic.
And it's interesting 'cause that's what we we we had that last season but in a different setup. We were getting a lot of easterly winds, which is a bit weird and unusual for for the for for New Zealand. But because we got so he so much easterly wind we we we could fly and cross the main divide and fly up the west coast and we we we we didn't get many firewall days. It was it wasn't a great season for tandems. and it was it made it difficult because then you have to make a decision, do I go make some money or do I go on the one cross country day of the of the month and yeah, and cross country usually
wins for me but yeah it's yeah we'll see we'll see what happens. I'm I'm I'm staying positive.
gavin (01:07:40.192)
Excellent. Well, Ben, keep keep entertaining us all. It's been really fun and inspiring to
watch your amazing films. We'll have all of that of course on the in the blog post that goes with this for those of you listening. There'll be all the links up and highly encourage you all to go check out if you haven't, 'cause you you yeah, you're the you're the you're you you get my award for the King Adventurer right now, bud. You're you're you're living it up. But well done and it's nice to see your smiling face again and thanks for sharing all this with us. I appreciate it.
Ben Kellett (01:08:12.047)
Thanks for having me, mate. I I appreciate it.
