Episode 115- Sky Camping with Martin (11 yrs) and Honza Rejmanek

Honza and Martin having a most excellent adventure!

Honza Rejmanek competed in the Red Bull X-Alps 5 times. His last was in 2015 but apparently nutty runs in the family and he and his son Martin have been doing incredible 8 day tandem vol-biv adventures for the past three years in the Alps. Their style is pure- no mechanical support is allowed (ie they fly or they walk), food is collected or carried, where they start and end is fixed so if they don’t make it one year they just come back the next! Honza says compared to the X-Alps they move at about one quarter of the speed but with four times the weight and no support crew! This inspiring and fun talk takes you on the inside of 3 years of adventures that not too many people will ever get to experience. My greatest ambition after listening to Martin and Honza is to be this cool of a Dad! In this chaotic time, we could all use something to help us smile and relax. This talk will do it!

Some fun stats:

Longest flight: 50km, 5hr
Longest distance hiked in one day: 25km
Most elevation hiked in one day: 1,700m

Support the Podcast

A buck an episode, that's all we ask

If you like what you hear, please consider becoming a subscriber to ensure our high-quality content continues.

See our donation and subscription options here.

Listen to the Podcast

Listen to us on all the most popular podcast platforms:

Show Notes:

  • The art of tandem vol biv with Dad
  • How it works, gear, and the style
  • The best, the worst, the hardest
  • The treasures along the way
  • The “skull and crossbones” trail
  • Gear tips for vol biv
  • Single surface wings?
  • Food – what to bring and how to be self reliant
  • Fun contacts and encounters along the way
  • How they’ve adapted each one
  • Conditions that work and don’t work on a tandem

Mentioned in this episode:

Nate Scales, Cross Country Magazine, Red Bull X-Alps


Social Media

Share this post with your friends!
Connect with the Mayhem!


1 [00:00:16] Hi there everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase mayhem on Monday, just three days ago we dropped that show about covid 19 which was a little bit dark for sure, but I think maybe the best piece of journalism we put out, and I've heard from many of you that you really appreciated it and we're grateful that we did put it out because a lot of people are taking this seriously but many aren't.

1 [00:00:41] And it was just good to get the perspective of a couple of people that are really kind of on the front lines. Certainly Terry, my friend who is an ER doc here in town and is on the front lines and just an update just since Monday. And if you listen to the show, two of his staff are now intubated non ventilators and either of these people are old and neither of these people have underlying conditions.

1 [00:01:07] So it is quite serious and it just want to reiterate that it's really important that we all as a community take this seriously. It's not just the potential for getting hurt and ending up in the hospital, which would be a bad thing to happen right now, but it's the potential for continuing to spread this.

1 [00:01:31] The only way to stop this is too social distance. And if we're taking Uber's and getting in car rides with other people, we're going to keep spreading it. And you could literally kill somebody if you do that. And that's pretty uncool. I've heard a lot of people say, well yeah, it's only getting the older people.

1 [00:01:52] Well exactly. And the older populations, it's right up there at 12 14% if over 80 so what you're saying, if you're saying that is that you don't care about or people, and my sister said that means you don't have a heart. So anyway, you don't need me to preach at you. That's not my job. That's not what I want to do.

1 [00:02:13] I just would just request in that y'all think about it. Griego was not flying and he's the best in the world. We can all get back to this thing that we love so much later and it's also our community is going to be judged by people from around the world that see us doing what we're doing and that's important as well.

1 [00:02:35] This show is the poor opposite of all of that darkness. It's one of the more inspiring talks I've had with anybody. I sat down with Honza rejmanek, my good friend and five times X outs athlete and longtime columnist for cross-country magazine. You all know him through his meteorology column there.

1 [00:02:56] He's immediate hall. Just meet to urologist out in Davis and he and his son Martin, who's now 11 I had been doing these awesome eight day tandem Volbella adventures in the Alps the last three years. They're planning on going back over again this June, but that's looking increasingly unlikely, but they're putting together some really great routes and spend an amazing time.

1 [00:03:20] You know father and son and you're going to dig it. They're just, they're covering ground and they're having amazing flights and they're doing it all by human power. So this is kind of filling Honza is red bull AIX apps hole that he left after 2015 and they're doing it in style there.

1 [00:03:40] They're moving a lot slower of course than what Honza is used to and he's carrying a lot more weight than what he's used to, but very cool then I think you're going to enjoy it. So enjoy this talk with Honza and his son Martin Honza

2 [00:04:00] and Martin. It's a great to connect with you. What a fantastic thing to be doing while we're trying to, uh, be social distancing around the world. So it's, it's fun to talk to you guys on Skype. I'd rather, I'd rather do it in person, but we'll probably leave that for another time and I'm really excited to talk about these fantastic adventures you guys have been having in the Alps.

2 [00:04:21] I thought, um, before we do, I'd, I'd love to just hear, you know, this isn't a show obviously about covid 19, but I'd like to just find out what your reality is like right now on and how you guys are dealing with this and to give the listeners some perspective. It's March the 20th. And uh, yeah, that's, that's the time that's, that's the kinda things we're dealing with. I understand California and specifically your part of the world has gotten pretty locked down.

3 [00:04:47] Um, yeah. So we have already had to cancel or Belize trip and now we're hoping that we don't need to cancel the trip to the Alps of fourth time and, but we'll see how that's gonna turn out with covid 19

2 [00:05:03] and Martin, are you home or you, I guess schools have been canceled across California. Right. Okay. Yeah. And uh, and so how long have you been home and what's it like just hanging out with the parents all day?

3 [00:05:14] Well, I just finished my first week, but I go to my grandma's house a lot. And with my classmates and my teacher, we created a canvas link. So we're still continuing love projects and we can communicate with each other via canvas.

2 [00:05:30] Very cool. Yeah. Well what's canvas? I don't know. I'm, you're talking to an old guy, I don't even know.

3 [00:05:37] Canvas. It's like sort of a blog, but there are different projects and links to websites and you can talk about which experiences you've had with those websites, with your classmates or whoever's on canvas at that time.

2 [00:05:54] Oh, cool. So you're still going to school?

3 [00:05:57] Sorta,

2 [00:05:58] but I'm still gonna have to go to school in the summer of 70. Oh, I see it as, is that how they're going to try to balance things out? Exactly. And Honza what are you doing right now for work? Are you able to work from home and you know, just look at the, do you have all the kind of computing power you need to be dealing with meteorology or do you just in furlough?

4 [00:06:16] Uh, yeah, know of, um, and they've sent me home and up in, um, basically teleworking. Uh, I come in occasionally into the office, uh, but you know, I'm not doing specifically forecasting, it's more air quality, uh, that I work in. Uh, so it's, uh, you know, it's, we, we managed to just work on projects at home, but yeah.

2 [00:06:41] So I, that was a surprise to me. Martin you said you guys are going back, hopefully, and we'll see you right. Uh, in June for your fourth one, I thought you've done three of these already.

3 [00:06:51] Yeah. So we want it, we weren't planning to go back the fourth one because we on, so the first year we had other destinations, LMC Emsi to combat and Italy, but we didn't make it. And the next year we tried it and we got to go and buy a hat and Italy.

3 [00:07:13] But so then we made a new starting point and destination honesty and fans too. We was at Sam and Switzerland and so we tried it once, but yeah, that was last year.

3 [00:07:33] We weren't able to get to ZEMA so we wanted to try it again this year.

2 [00:07:40] Let's, let's give, uh, that's, uh, I think we got a first rewind a little bit and tell everybody what you guys are doing. What, what is, what are these missions and how do, how does it work?

3 [00:07:52] So it's a father, son sky camp where the first day we start up at a launch somewhere high and then we cannot use any buses, public transport, any motorized vehicles to get ourselves anywhere until our finish, which we usually have a timeline limit of eight days and we have a start point and a destination and we need to get there with only hiking and flying on a tandem pay the glider.

2 [00:08:25] Wow. And so how much are you carrying versus your workhorse dad?

3 [00:08:30] Um, he's killing the paraglider that tent the basically everything except for me and I'm killing the,

2 [00:08:41] Oh, the food's quite a bit close. No close. And are you and pursue your LA, are you eating cafes, you guys top landing and having an espresso in the Dolomites are, well you haven't been in the Dolomites I guess, but are you, are you, you're allowed, you're, you're going through restaurants on the way. Are you carrying your food as well?

3 [00:08:59] Um, we do carry food, but if we end up in the Valley or somewhere where there is a cafe, yeah, we do stop for Avast baby toddler or something. And we also have been to the Dolomites go via our first destination is an Italy, which, so that's the Dolomites. Yup.

2 [00:09:19] Who cool. So eight days sky camping with your dad on a tandem rig. Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about your gear. What, what are you guys carrying? Are you carrying stoves and fuel and you know, how, how heavy is everything?

3 [00:09:35] No, we have one titanium bowl and I think we have one titanium spork and that's about it.

2 [00:09:46] Yeah. We don't have a fuel. We decided we'd go drive food. Nuts. Yeah. Sometimes a little like a little fire.

4 [00:09:53] Uh, it's, the ideas were just that beef jerky, nuts, um, some dried fruits, some

3 [00:10:02] wild blueberries.

2 [00:10:04] Mm. Are you collecting quite a bit of food? Depends on the year.

4 [00:10:08] Um, if it's an August, uh, on the second trip we, we found a lot of berries. Uh, this last one, which was in June, was a little early, so we didn't have too many,

3 [00:10:20] but this one in June, we had a lot of, we say that two cabins, both of them gave us food, which was fun. And this one place that was celebrating something and the flying conditions weren't good or so we sort of hung out and there was this really good meat and good food last year.

3 [00:10:45] Yeah.

4 [00:10:46] They made a pit in the uh, uh, like in the ground and use some, uh, dried, uh, old old vines from an old vineyard and made the coals with that. And basically those, I think a pork loin that they roasted underground. It was really nice. It was after that was after five days of eating dried. Just

2 [00:11:04] no, hopefully appear as well. Yeah, that sounds great. Well, what's been the biggest kind of a crux or is it, is it weather? Cause I mean in the Alps you've got the water right, you've got, you've got plenty of food. Um, what, what's been the kind of the hardest thing Martin about doing these?

3 [00:11:25] That would be between two, either weather or the first year of the skull crossbones trail as we named it, which is a trail, which actually isn't a trail. It was a nice trail on the map it said. But then when we got there, it was a little bit of an animal trail.

3 [00:11:45] And other than that it was mostly bushwhacking and through slipped the wattle waterfalled bounds. Yes. I'm not sure what's worse either having to deal with weather or that. Oh, so you're,

2 [00:12:04] you're covering ground on foot too. You're not just fly and top landing waiting for the next flyable day?

4 [00:12:10] No, we're kind of, uh, we're basically doing it at X apps without the, you know, the intense fervor of having to move all the time. But, uh, yeah, there's times we had, you know, and end up in the bottom of the Valley. So then we got to get to the next launch. Where does just, if it's, you know, unless it's ridiculously rainy where we're trying to keep moving towards our destination, sort of XL light style.

2 [00:12:37] Right. And, and how, how heavy is your kit Honza on your side of things?

4 [00:12:41] It starts out pretty darn heavy. I'd say it starts out close to 30 kilos when we start because it's got, it's a regular way tandem. Um, I've got mine a nervous Ofwat Carness which I used in the Oh seven XL, same one as Nate scales used. Um, and that one's got a lot of room under the seat, which is good. Uh, first stuff, it's maybe 1.3 kilos.

4 [00:13:03] We just use a, um, a lightweight one person, a reserve because we're still pretty light. We might have to upgrade as Martin gets older, uh, Martins and the thin red line, which is just a 309 harness from the, from the 90s. Uh, but uh, it's still, then we've got, we've got a tent that's about a two kilo tent.

4 [00:13:25] We don't bring sleeping bags. We use the tandem as a massive blanket over ourselves. And maybe Martin, you can tell what w how we, how we kind of, how we settled on sleeping pads.

3 [00:13:36] Yeah. So the first year we thought about things, sleeping pads, but just before we left, we were like, no one to need these. But then we had not as much of the wing to put on us because we put most of it underneath. So serve sort of as a sleeping pad. But then the next day we're like, okay, let's get some sleep and paths.

3 [00:14:00] We need to think sleeping pads. And so we bought them and now what we do is we sleep and sort of the middle of the way and that's underneath us. And then we, each of us has our own sector of the wind, which had been put over us in any way we want. And that is what we have done for this year and last year.

2 [00:14:23] And so the theory there is your, you've got quite a bit of clothes for flying and you can just, are you just sleeping in your clothes with the wing?

4 [00:14:30] Yes, yes. Fully dressed, fully dressed.

2 [00:14:33] This is always something that sounds kind of romantic, but every time I've tried it I can't sleep cause the noise, you guys both just don't move.

4 [00:14:42] We move and if hopefully we're tired enough to where we are now. Yeah. Mar Martin Martin sleeps through it, uh, very well. Sometimes we arrived jet lagged, so I'm bringing some Benadryl and some melatonin and kind of pop and both to to get myself straightened out with most sleep cycle as quick as possible.

4 [00:15:03] Or if I'm just laying there awake and I know I need to get some rest.

2 [00:15:07] And your, your route, um, are you adjusting that, you know, kind of literally is you're on the plane going over or is this something you guys, okay we're going to do this this year regardless of the weather. Do you start and push through it or do you adapt on the fly?

3 [00:15:24] Um, so we have a starting point and our destination and once we get to the spot, we, if we have some, as we check the weather and we're like, okay, would it be better to go this Valley, that Valley, where should we go? So we adapt mostly on the, not on the flight, but like when we're laying in the tent or after we settled in for the night.

4 [00:15:47] And I see what you're asking. Gavin I think on the w, you know, especially for the first one, I wasn't totally fixed on starting at Dell. LMC it was kind of uh, you know, we were, we were in Prague and trying to decide, you know, were made most sense of given the weather.

4 [00:16:08] Um, and then the next time around we, we know we decided to try for the same goal. We've kind of Martin you want to tell her rule?

3 [00:16:17] Yeah. So we adapt in a rules. So we set a point, we try it once. If it doesn't work, we try it the second time. And if that doesn't work then we try the third time. And if that still doesn't work, then we go to a new destination. I am starting point to three tries to get it.

3 [00:16:37] And if we don't, then we switch. Or if we do, then we automatically switch.

2 [00:16:42] And is that switch getting on a train and go onto a new, like an old, a new zone?

4 [00:16:48] Well, it's kind of year by year. So the idea is, um, you know, there's like for example, we didn't, uh, we didn't make it all the way to, um, uh, is there a motto or does it matter? Harm. So our plan a, which is up in the air literally for with the co, uh, the covid 19, but, uh, is to try again, uh, you know, Annecy to his or her ma again and uh, by the, by our personal rules, even if we don't make it this year and we would get one more year.

4 [00:17:19] So it's kinda three tries and then we, we change the starting point in the destination. That's easy. We make it. Uh, and if, if we give it three tries and we don't make it, it's we're not flying very well or where it was too hard and then, then we can change it after three, three attempts.

2 [00:17:39] So Martin, by my math, your first one was when you were eight, is that right?

3 [00:17:43] Yes. Yes. How

2 [00:17:45] did you, how did you guys decide to do this? What were were, cause I know, you know you used to ride on your dad's back at the start of the X Alps and stuff. So I know you've been, you know, intimately familiar with his flying and you know, his exploits. And I know you guys have been doing stuff and chill a for every year, for years, but was this, you know, is this just, Oh let's go do this or was this something you guys kind of trained for it home?

2 [00:18:09] Like he took some little flights, kind of figured it out.

4 [00:18:12] Well we only had a one day, uh, maybe two and a half hour cross country here locally. Uh, and that was the longest a flight Martin had had it with me. And the whole idea almost got sabotaged cause I started talking about this idea, you know, when Martin was seven, just turning eight. And then I made the big mistake of showing them the 2009 X helps video with your thing.

4 [00:18:39] Some stuff. Yeah. Yeah. One day when he was home from school and I was watching him cause he was sick, I decided to show him the 2009 X helps videos. I'll do that. We're not doing that. That's way too crazy. So I had to really like explain to them what's going to be a lot mellower. We'll get to do fun stuff along the way and we do fun steps. What are some of the fun activities?

3 [00:19:01] Um, well we do a lot of wiggling on the way. Um, and we also do a lot of Berry picking, which is fun. And afterwards what I really like is I get to make movies from it with the pictures.

3 [00:19:25] So I make like music videos with the picture, sort of.

2 [00:19:29] Oh, fun. And what's the, what's the, what's the most memorable point of these Martin for you and then for you dad? Do?

3 [00:19:40] Um, the men, the most memorable point I'd say is finally having some time with my dad because since my brother was born, it was mostly dad and brother or, or me and my dad and my brother. And yeah. So I have never gotten to have from that moment some time with my dad.

3 [00:20:04] So I feel like we get along really well there and it's so much fun.

2 [00:20:10] Cup that. Then how about for you? Honza let's, let's the kind of most memorable moment of these three and hopefully for them.

4 [00:20:19] Uh, I mean, I think in some ways it was our second or fourth day on the second trip was, uh, we, uh, we, we had a five hour flight and it was basically, it was like textbook, uh, is zero wind up to about 3000, 800 meters and every, every spine was working just like it should.

4 [00:20:43] We, just to kind of back up, we had started, does that Lindsey had a decent day that first day and then we had two days of just hiking through the rain. So after two days of hiking in the rain and we woke up to a beautiful morning, got herself to a great launch and five hours and about 50 K as the Crow flies, even though as much a little more of an art and, uh, made it into the Dolomites.

4 [00:21:07] And, uh, we, even that

3 [00:21:10] night we reached our destination hype, the 10 K into combat. And so we had, what was it, eight days for that?

4 [00:21:19] I think we had seven days for that one. And we, on day four we reached her goal, which was, which was really cool. So then we got to spend three days just flying around in the Dolomites and even on the last day out to uh, trade Shumate which was a turning point in the 2011. Next helps. And we got to within maybe five K of it.

4 [00:21:40] We like from the North, we came in to the Dolomites and then backed out. Uh, but yeah, it was getting overcast and just to just the,

3 [00:21:50] and on the second one we landed in the exact same spot that we did on the first one, ended off and tell, allow a city bike, new elite Leanne same field.

4 [00:22:02] Yes. And the first, and the first one was mostly walking the first, the first, uh, trip was, you know, a few walking in sled rides until the last day where we had a three hour flight and we covered more up more. We covered more distance and three hours of flying on our, on our final day of our very first, uh, trip than we did, you know, the, um, uh, during the five days, uh, walking or so.

4 [00:22:31] And um, so this is the second trip was the most successful as far as flying goes? I think we have 18 hours of air time. Like I said, we made our goal, uh, on day four and then we had three days to just explore, fly toward the more Malata. Uh, it was just, it was just, you know, top lend a pie and uh, but it also was exciting. You want to tell them about the, the, the, the one on the, where are we got close to the trees on the, on the landing and that type of field.

3 [00:22:58] Yeah. So we were flying around and they needed to top land and so we were coming in and since it was looking good, my dad decided to do one last circle around just we could lose some height. But then when we're coming in a total almost touching the trees that I was like, dad, what are you doing about all I know about flying?

3 [00:23:25] We shouldn't have done that last circle. Yes, all those touch the trays. But we made it into the field.

4 [00:23:35] I'm a lightweight loaded on a tandem with trimmers out into headwind. It's easy to forget how bad your glide ratio can be three to one. So it wasn't even a circle, it was just an S chart. But enough of that estrogen was enough to like, just as I finished it and check the gliding and I was like, Oh, we might not be clear on this. There's literally like a little V in the trees that we were, that we were getting through.

4 [00:23:59] But, um,

3 [00:24:00] yeah it was a cabin and there were people in that cabin and then they were like outside and stuff and they were like, did you guys touch the trees? We thought you all said yeah,

4 [00:24:14] they probably get some delicious salami and cheese

3 [00:24:19] bananas. But those were really, really good.

4 [00:24:21] Yeah. And that is what great cause we hadn't had any fruit. Uh, yeah. I mean I felt that that was the one I felt, man. I was like, I'd never know 25 there's a flying. He never, never landed in a tree. And for a second I thought we'd be putting it down in a, in a tree top with my son. I would've felt just really silly waiting for some rescue if we weren't able to. Self rescue would've felt really silly hair.

4 [00:24:44] What they said too. Like you're doing what? What do you do? That's pretty extreme. Even for the French, even though you weren't friends. But yeah, that's it. Do you get any of that? Do you get any kind of pushback? Are there any, but are there any people that are just like, what are you guys doing? No. So far, it's been very supportive. We did get a rescue called on us.

4 [00:25:05] Uh, but that was on the first year. Yeah, it was the second day of our first, uh, you know, it was these little sled rides and it was one across, you know, as LMC we flew westward for a little bit and then South across the main Valley and XL style just decided to put it down in some place where that very short trees where, you know, they use patches where, well we needed to because we didn't want to land in the Valley.

4 [00:25:30] It was kind of herself style. Let's ha let's land 300 meters up the hillside in a little spot of some work. Exactly. Well, somebody down in the Valley saw this pair of gliders fly straight into the, into the Hill

3 [00:25:41] and we saw later, yeah. Like just segued to the hell. It wasn't small, blah was a hell.

4 [00:25:47] So we'd already set up tent and we were basically, Martin was already asleep and then this crew of five people, uh, the search and rescue come up just to the rescue us. And we just have to explain to them we're doing a father, son Xcel, uh, what a fine.

3 [00:26:03] Then they had to wake me up.

4 [00:26:05] Yeah. I see. It was, it was okay and yeah, and then they were on their way. Uh, and then the day after that was also interesting. Uh, uh, we were, uh, we were up on a launch and it just kept raining and raining and sometimes just hide under the tarp. Uh, just to, you know, we have a tarp that we can deploy very quickly over us, even if there was no trees so that we can kind of shelter in place.

4 [00:26:29] And uh, so then we decide, okay, we're not going to stay up here. We're going to fly down into the Valley. And uh, we landed in a ranger, didn't want to tell about the ranger.

3 [00:26:39] Yeah. So the ranger came, it was veining when we landed and, and very scrubby English. So it didn't unders understand him very much. He's done speaking to us about skimming the DIA and we explained to him, we showed him on a map, but we are not in the public yet when legal flying zone.

3 [00:26:59] And he said like the deer will jump off the cliff said suicide themselves because of a lot of books and stuff like, so

4 [00:27:10] yeah, he was very, he was very upset. I was saying the deer could jump and hurt themselves because you landed here. But um, yeah, in the end, once we kind of in, we're able to explain what we were doing, he, he let us basically stay in the calm down. But it was, it was, it was kind of one day after another. So it wasn't necessarily people, you know, being upset with the idea of what we were doing.

4 [00:27:35] But uh, just little events like that happened to them, that those, especially on that first, uh, on that first, uh, adventure.

2 [00:27:42] Martin when you, when you fly with your dad's busy on these lame long flights, five hour flight stuff, do you get any air sickness?

3 [00:27:50] No, that's, I feel really lucky because I do not get close sick sea sick as sick stomach six. Yeah.

2 [00:28:01] Are you flying yet? You're on your own or are you, I mean, are you, I know your kid and that kind of thing, but are you taking little flights with you on your own yet? So,

4 [00:28:12] but he's tears let them Thermo for awhile. Like if I'm taking pictures and especially if, if we know we're not in close proximity to cliff or anything, just kind of, yeah,

3 [00:28:23] I can't take a picture.

4 [00:28:28] Yeah.

2 [00:28:30] How do you guys approach, uh, you know, do you kind of have like a tap out, you know, uh, do, do you guys have kind of a, like a, you know, a lot of, what's the word I'm looking for? Rules of just like, Hey dad, I'm scared. I don't like this, you know, or it just does. Honza do you just make all the calls or is it kind of a team effort?

4 [00:28:51] I would say it's a team effort. Um, you know, sometimes there was, there was one on that last one of the, the second year where we're kind of flying into the Dolomites and I kept doing these sort of hopper flights, top landing and Martin was like made the colleagues on this is the last top landing and you get that like just, it's the last day, you know, just, just, just deal with it.

4 [00:29:15] If we're thinking out and got a sink out, like don't, don't try to salvage this one for all it's worth. And uh, another time Martin made a, well he was giving me advice. I should have listened. Uh, you want to tell the story? This was when we were trying to get him Shamani yeah.

3 [00:29:28] Yes. We will try to get into somebody.

4 [00:29:31] So you were flying from Annecy? Yeah. This is the NSC we did the first day wasn't much, we got over over the back. This is the third trip. So we've got, we forgot over the back of the tornado and just a little past it and then whatever that is down there. Yeah. Not even, not even to luck. Luckily was basically almost like over the back of the turnout and the first kind of Hill towards the RVs.

4 [00:29:54] That form is beyond that. That was day one, second day hiking most of the day to get onto the RVs. Uh, and it was overcast in the morning and then we had a really nice blast down the RVs and just across the, the main Valley, um, and a a top landing and it was starting to overdevelop big over Montblanc. Uh, so we had to wait it out, wait a very short one hour flight and then the third day, so now we're not too far out of Chamonix and finally gets good route two in the afternoon.

4 [00:30:26] And, and I decided to kind of cut a diagonal and Martin

3 [00:30:31] well, so I was like, why don't you follow the Vader? Like why are you cutting the dag and or foster Valley when it comes to follow the vege and go along the badge? Which, what I've been fine with you, I've learned that if you're along the hillsides, the balls are better. That, so I sink out in the Valley and make the huge crossing, which is a risk when you can just dolphin fly along the smart.

4 [00:31:00] Yeah. And we sunk out 3:00 PM nice Q means and was sunk out right in Chamonix Valley. And uh, so that was, yeah. I shouldn't listen to Martin a thousand meters. Yeah. We had to hike up a thousand over a thousand meters right out of the show, Moonee Valley. But, uh,

3 [00:31:18] but, and we still got to fly a little bit, but then that got us stuck on a glacier.

4 [00:31:24] Yeah. I'm a snowfield. Yeah. Well not stuck and not stuck per se, but a stuck as far as, you know, it didn't make sense to hike further at that point. It was kind of a, the weather was, uh, was, was, was pretty bad and the next morning and it was, it was hard to launch because it was kind of always crossing, slightly cross and down or slight moments still.

4 [00:31:51] But, uh, yeah. You know, it made, it made it tough to get off the next day.

3 [00:31:57] Yeah. So we were there till about, what was it, 11?

4 [00:32:01] No, I think it was later. I think it was a maybe, maybe two in the afternoon.

3 [00:32:04] Oh, well I guess we got airborne and then we,

4 [00:32:08] we made it to the back and call the blend about color bomb. Yeah. So we've got almost a call to bottom. It was getting pretty windy, so it's not, you know, and we thought we did. We got to get a really tall thermal to go over or let's land before the call where it compresses and landed on a nice snowfield and then hiked the coal.

3 [00:32:28] Which one was the flight way? Uh, you, you almost got us stuck in the power lines.

4 [00:32:34] Not the power lines. The cat. Oh, that was the day before. Well you saw the, the, the, the cables to argue the MIDI.

3 [00:32:40] Yeah. Oh, sing some cables way fell off at the distance. He was saying though, still fly away. And I'd be like, no though. Pretty close in front of us. And it was,

4 [00:32:50] yeah, that's, that's why having a fresh pair of eyes, a young pair of eyes.

2 [00:32:54] Yeah. Oh man. There's so many cables in the Alps. It's, I've had several flights where it's just like, Whoa, I didn't see that,

4 [00:33:04] but it was just beautiful flying over the glaciers, you know, next to my block. I mean that's just the time of year where you can still be on the North side. It allowed us to fly. Yeah. The North facing the South side of the Valley, which was really cool to get to fly there and uh, yeah, but call them once the next day after that, when we did get to call the bone bomb, there was a pilot, a paraglider pilot who bought the refuge right at the summit and he was remodeling it.

4 [00:33:32] And when we told them what we were doing, he said, well, you guys can just crash out here. You don't have to set up your tent. It's raining. So it's a commodity. And so that was really nice.

3 [00:33:42] We stopped there, we had spaghetti and Apple pie will crumble. Matt was, and then the next day. Yeah. So then after that, early in the morning, like an hour.

4 [00:33:55] Okay.

3 [00:33:55] Yeah. Like five 45, six, we had this half an hour while this one's long half hour sled vide about what was at 1,400.

4 [00:34:07] I'm probably even more than that, I think 1,800, 1,900 meters of December because we started at 2300 meters and flew down in past, past Martin knee. Just a, yeah, a little bit past martini, uh, landed before we got to the CEO and airspace.

2 [00:34:26] So if you, I mean this is kind of, but for a lot of listeners, this won't make a ton of sense because unless they know that area, but because we do so well and Martin, you've obviously got awesome geographical knowledge of the Alps now, but if you guys try to do this again from anesthesia, the Matterhorn, would you take the verbiage Valley instead of the on Valley?

2 [00:34:47] Avoid all that muck in the room.

4 [00:34:50] Let's see now. So, um, I'm trying to remember the verbiage Valley. It'd be once you've got past martini, but we'd go to the South.

2 [00:34:57] Yeah. So you wouldn't go to Martiny, you would just from BOM, uh, cold a bomb. I mean, if you could get up there, you would lob over the back and keep he off to your left, you know, off gear North. And, and you know, if you don't make verbiage, there's a couple, you know, you would fly up the, what is that? The st Bernard up towards the st Bernard passed the one into Italy.

2 [00:35:18] But you'd fly, I, I'm only thinking that because then you're avoiding the rowdiness of the round and the Valley winds and all that stuff and you're avoiding the Seon airspace. Um, and you're kind of standing high. Uh, and then, so you, and then if you made it into a verb EA, then from there you just fly out. You, you, you, you get up. There's a bunch of launches that are all gorgeous and verb EA.

2 [00:35:42] Um, and then from there it's a 50 K flight to Zermatt and you just fly, you kind of backdoor it, you go, you, you, you, if you get one climb out of herb EA, you can start punching along those kind of North South ridges that lead down to the road, you know, so you just kind of keep popping along those, but you stay South of the, on airspace all the way into as Vermont, if that makes sense.

4 [00:36:05] Yeah, I've thought that I've, I've definitely looking at it even last year looking at how, uh, especially in June, the way the sun goes used, it seems like some of those, even though they're North, you know, my original thought Gavin was, okay, well we'll, we'll fly the South faces like the, the whole Rhone Valley. We'll just do all the, it will be the North of it and fly all the South faces.

4 [00:36:27] But I was realizing it, you know, it's, it's pretty far North up there in those long days of summer, actually the sun is setting in the Northwest. So in the late afternoon if some of your North, uh, North facing Northwest facing slopes are getting much better son. So I think, I think you're right about that. I think a little bit of a change of route there.

4 [00:36:48] Uh, and, and just to see out of the main sea on Valley might be, uh, might be the way to go.

2 [00:36:54] Well, I think you're just, you're subjecting yourself to much nicer ground work by foot to, if you, there was one time I flew into Geneva, uh, you know, I came in on like the nine 30 flight, whatever it is, and I took the train up to Varubi, I fell asleep on the train, so it went to see on, I didn't get off and I'd go back on and go onto the other way, go back.

2 [00:37:16] So I was kind of late and I got to VVA, I dunno it noon. Um, and took the gondola up to you, take the gondola, did this launch called Rue net, uh, and it's kind of an afternoon launch, you know, so it starts working at, you know, 12, 12, 30 kinda thing and, uh, you know, dialed up there and was in Zermatt in no time actually flew to fish that day.

2 [00:37:37] But it was, you know, for you guys, I think it'd be a pretty easy connection, uh, cause it's just 50 K, you know, from there you've really got it. You're pretty close. You just need one decent day. And if you've got a little bit of Westwind, which she usually do it to, if you got the base, you know, then you can just, you can kind of stay high and you're still flying down the Rome, but you're on the South side of it and deep.

4 [00:38:01] Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, I think you're right. I think we're gonna have to switch it up a little bit. Once again. It all depends on, on conditions, but it was, it was cool. We, uh, um, I don't think it was you, but some XL pilot, uh, on the 2019 and it was actually happening during the 2019 next helps. So by the time it was our last day of this last

2 [00:38:21] slow way, I forgot his name, but the fun, we flew with the French guy, one of the ones way out front Maxine. Uh, or a gas Bard or

3 [00:38:35] um, I'd say it was the, yeah, Maxine or the second French guy. One of those two.

2 [00:38:43] Yeah.

4 [00:38:44] It was a super, super stable day. It was like, it was, uh, it was super stable in a few days after that. It got really good where everybody had, we talk, we have to finish by then, but one of the top, top landings, a Montblanc thing happened. So, so we, we finished just a day or two before that. Uh, we have to get out of there, uh, for schedule wise. But it would, gosh, that would be amazing to have a day where we, you know, with that kind of thing.

2 [00:39:09] Oh yeah, that'd be, well that was, yeah, that was pretty amazing. I was not happy to be on the ground when that was going on. It was so stable and so hot. Uh, but it Honza is this helped fill the, the whole, that most live in your heart of not doing the XLS or is is you know, as this kind of like something you could really look forward to and fills that gap?

4 [00:39:34] Oh yeah. This is now, you know, now that I'm not doing the Excelsis, this is the one thing I look forward to most in the year. Uh, cause it's, it's, it's, it's on that kind of same, it's still got the same thing where we, we, we make this time to do it and we go and do it no matter what. It's not like a normal paragliding comp or tasks get canceled. I got really, I got kind of over that, uh, after I let my last comp, normal comp was the 2008 us nationals and they just canceled one task after another, after another.

4 [00:40:03] And uh, I just to go somewhere, you know, spend a lot of money and just be told you can't fly. But I'd much rather have a hike and fly adventure where you'd make it happen no matter what. And to get to do that with my son and to share it with them as just, you know, right now I think it's the coolest thing that I can be doing

2 [00:40:23] in Martin. How do you, do you look forward to it kind of in the same way?

3 [00:40:28] Yes. I really like it and I feel like it adds that gap of time with dad. You know,

2 [00:40:36] that's so special to me. I mean that's, that's a really intimate time. You guys are flying together, which is intense and fun and DDO exploratory and ascetic and then you're getting to camp together and figure it all out. You're getting to navigate together and eat together and uh, it's fantastic.

4 [00:40:52] Yeah, there was, um, after that super long sled ride, uh, what did we find? Uh, what do we got? Just lend them just pass martini before we started hiking.

3 [00:41:00] Oh yeah. We found, what was it cherry?

2 [00:41:03] It's true. His neighbor costs on those is so nice. After being up in the tall mountains for awhile. I had a particularly rough training day. I can't remember which one I was changing and it was the 2017 one and uh, did this monster high, couldn't fly and walk back down.

2 [00:41:24] And I, and I just happened across this like huge strawberry plantation farm and I just thought, Oh, I have to steal a few hope. That's okay. Just say, you know, it's kind of dehydrated and bonking and Oh they were the most delicious thing I've ever put in my mouth for exiles pilot that's allowed through the Apple orchards of Italy is such a treasure.

2 [00:41:49] It's just like coming across a field of ice cream. You're just like, Oh, thank you so much. Any that, any intense moments in these three that you've done? Um, skull crossbones trail. Yes. Sounded like hell. It was, you know, you know the outdoor active app, right?

2 [00:42:11] You use that one? Yeah. Not anymore because it kept screwing us. I was gonna say, I bet you were using that app. It's just, yeah, yeah, it looks like a great trail. So it was like Martin liquid will go up 200 meters in elevation and get onto this nice trail and the lettuce traverse while we get to this trail. And it's like barely noticeable if at all.

2 [00:42:30] Kind of in and out of being a trail at all. And then it just got onto, it's in forest so you don't know how steep the terrain is coming up. But he got into these really partially Cliffy areas and with it was, you know, it was, it was very, it gets kind of sketchy and just uncomfortable in some parts. So yeah, wet and slippery.

2 [00:42:52] So it was one of those trails that you're like, wow, that that's definitely not a trail. Like we would, if we could leave feedback, I would put a lot of skull and crossbones or you send somebody that you don't like on that trip. Like gosh, you know, but buddy, I think that's actually maybe my fault. I think I put you on to that app before the 2015 race.

2 [00:43:12] I was like, you gotta check this app of what we learned in that race. And the reason we stopped using it is it's, um, it's open source. So anybody using it, if they go hike something like that and they've got their record on it becomes a, it becomes a trail in the app itself. And so, uh, yeah, we've, we've switched to, I would highly recommend a little plug here, but, uh, I would highly recommend using the guy, uh, uh, their trails are fantastic and part to trail.

2 [00:43:43] It's a trail. If it's on there, it works and they've got awesome. You know, you can put in where you are and then where you want to go and it'll map you the most accurate, the most accurate way you can download everything in advance. Um, yeah, it's, it's really terrific. And that, yeah. Would that outdoor active, there are many times where I was just, it was a goose chase.

2 [00:44:03] Yeah. Well I'm glad to hear that. We're not the only ones. It's pretty funny. Any other things like that that, uh, I don't know. They've been, you know, learning points. What are some of the things you've changed along the way? Well, the mattresses, so we did start bringing in the super lightweight, just three quarter lengths.

2 [00:44:23] Thermarest um, you know, the ones that are just air. Uh, but uh, they have that little Mylar layer in there.

4 [00:44:32] Yeah. So those Thermarests we do, we do do mattresses now. Um, see gear wise this time we brought a ice ax and crampons, but I think we might not do that. I don't think it was necessary. And I've just added a Lama

3 [00:44:46] say, yeah, definitely not. I sat pounds. That's like, no.

2 [00:44:53] And they haven't had a real big snow year. I mean, last year when you guys were there, we had that monster snow year. But this year is, I think it's more normal so far. Yeah. So I think to minimize on gear eventually, you know, I'm looking to the future, I'd love to get a lightweight tandem.

4 [00:45:09] That would be, uh, uh, that lightened things up. And then Martin is getting bigger and stronger. So, uh, you know, probably be sharing the load a little, a little more each year.

2 [00:45:19] Yeah. I've been having these little adventures on a single surface wing. I, I've never flown in cross country or anything, but that they make those in tandem. Now. Is that a possibility or is that the, those just don't, they don't work for cross country. I don't know. I mean I've heard these stories of people flying like a hundred K on them. I just, when I fly mine, I can't imagine doing that. But I think

4 [00:45:40] I could see in the right conditions a kept sliding under K. but then if you get into a windy situation where you're like trying to push against when I could see the glide ratio being really like,

2 [00:45:50] I don't think you really have one in those. Yeah. I don't like, I don't know. I mean the mine has a speed bar on it, but it's kinda, I think it's kind of pathetic when there's any wind.

4 [00:45:58] Yeah, I think it's better to lose weight and other things. Just, just lighten your gear. Uh, just try to really evaluate what you need. Like we've been bringing a folding saw, but I'm just thinking of more of a saw blade that's wrapped up in something, you know to keep it from cutting things up and just making, making the handle if we really need the the saw or little little things like that.

4 [00:46:19] Just trying to always evaluate. Um, we weigh our food, which usually try to like not have more than five kilos. We're trying to fit as many calories and to five kilos of food. So you know, looking at ideally more fat content in the food to try to leave self-reliant for about six days is the idea that food-wise

2 [00:46:39] and so tell me about your food. You mentioned nuts or are you trying to buy calories and fat? You're probably trying to go, you know, cheese nuts. What are you putting in your food kit? Yeah, we, we bring cheese. Salami,

3 [00:46:53] not some dry berries but not too much of that. What was it? We had Oh bacon but

2 [00:47:01] bacon bits. Yeah, like a whole bag of bacon bits at Costco. They have Costco in Europe.

3 [00:47:09] You can never have enough of those. Like those are always out at the end of the day.

2 [00:47:14] Yeah. Yeah. You guys need to look at, we look at what's at the end of the trip. Like if there is anything that didn't get eaten by chance. We know we need less

3 [00:47:23] and if it's eaten on the second day, we need more.

2 [00:47:26] Yup. Okay. So Martin, after six days of eaten cheese and salami and not, uh, what are you dying to have when you guys get back into, you know, quote unquote civilization? What do you, what's the first thing you go for?

4 [00:47:43] What did, what did we do the first two times? I think number when we took the train to Lance.

3 [00:47:48] Yeah. Ice cream.

2 [00:47:50] Nice. It's a Diener schnitzel.

4 [00:47:53] Yeah. Yeah. I know we had an unwell.

3 [00:47:56] No, the first time we had to get up.

4 [00:47:59] Yeah. Like a hero. Yeah.

2 [00:48:00] Yeah. Um, and Martin has there been any times in these three trips you've done with, with dad that if, uh, have you been scared at any point?

3 [00:48:16] Well, there was always, but that freaks me out a little bit. Always. Like when we're about to launch, when we're starting to bond like, but that I've talked to my grandma and she also has that same feeling when fight when you're about to do with this. I like little feeling of but what if, um, and also just to say in a quick summary, I say that the first year was like going into it and seeing if this is going to even work.

3 [00:48:50] And then second year was really enjoyable, enjoyable and terms of flying and where we were gonna get. And then the third year was also really, really enjoyable in terms of the people because we stayed in two cabins on the way. We had some good food there and we were, the first time I actually stopped by a cafe, um, that time to have PI.

4 [00:49:22] Yeah. Each one has kind of a different flavor, a different feel to it. I mean, you know, it's just like each X ops has kind of its own, it's kind of on a particular flavor. The one time I remember Martin on the ferry first trip, uh, being a little scared dose. This is my fault was I said, just wait here, I'm going to go look if this, if there's a lot of trouble spot and just, just wait here.

4 [00:49:48] So I left my backpack there, you know, with all the gear and kind of ran around the corner and I looked a little better around another corner and I said I'd be gone for five minutes is probably closer to 15 by the time it was done. And he was visibly upset that I'd been gone that long. But that was just before we flew across the Valley.

4 [00:50:09] That was, that was that day. It would just, just that evening before we flew across the Valley where the search and rescue got called on us later.

2 [00:50:15] Yeah. Yeah. You guys have really inspired me. I mean my, my little one's only two and a half, so it'll be awhile. But I, I did, uh, we were up in, uh, Lake LAWA when she was 13 months old. I was doing some ACRA training there over the water and I put her, her and mom on a tandem with Todd and uh, and he did helies with them all the way down to the water.

2 [00:50:39] So she, I don't think she actually knew what was going on, but I was flying right next to him and I took all the video and send it to grandma and grandma was not impressed.

4 [00:50:50] Yeah, it's a little tricky. I mean, some, some people would, you know, substance you definitely, some people frown upon it. I haven't really run across that too much, but, uh, uh, you know, my wife sometimes reminds me that some people might frown upon upon this activity is that it's understandable. I could see where they come from.

2 [00:51:09] Yeah, sure. How is the flying for you differently doing this? Is it, is it more tense? Is it more, is there anything that is, is much different than, you know, solo flying or flying, how you normally do? I think,

4 [00:51:28] and actually in some ways being just on a, uh, on a, on a big tandem, it's, it feels, it feels way more secure. Uh, the tandem, I mean, it's just a, it's a, you know, it's like tandems are usually like a big, uh, be glider. It feels very safe. I have to respect, especially in the early years when Martin was lighter, uh, that we are lightly loaded.

4 [00:51:53] Uh, so I have to kind of keep that in mind. Uh, as you know, I have to be very cognizant, more cognizant. I think that I would be on a normal, uh, on a soloing of a Valley wins and a wind in general. Um, but, uh, the flying off, you know, it's a, it's a UPC K to three and it's, uh, it's just, uh, it's been a great winger for this adventure.

4 [00:52:20] It's, the launch is great and it's been able, you know, can land a lot of side Hill landing, uh, on it. And, uh, I've been just super happy with the wing. So, you know, it's sometimes easy. Sometimes you kind of forget what you're doing that you're just with, you know, with your eight or nine or 10 year old kid, you know, surfing up next to a cliff, face in the Dolomites and take a picture of this.

4 [00:52:48] I'll send it to mom. But you know, but it feels very, very natural. Well, I mean, I've been doing this, like I said, almost 20, over 25 years. So it just, it's just natural extension of what like we should be doing.

2 [00:53:02] I, the other thing I should ask is what about mom? How does she feel about you guys doing this? Dad?

4 [00:53:09] Yeah, she's actually, um, you know, just, uh, uh, does she give you any, uh, what did she say?

3 [00:53:17] Well, what they do is since they, uh, here, it's summer, it's hot. They go to the library and when that closed the clock, they go to Ikea. And then when that was that I clocked me go home and then they go to bed. Uh, air conditioning is broken and it's hot.

3 [00:53:37] And so conditioning.

4 [00:53:43] Yeah. So now she's just, yeah, she's, she's been very supportive. She actually used to fly, um, when we, when we met each other and stuff, she's actually, she actually tried paragliding. We did the math and it was when she was 14. So she was younger. It was earlier in time than when I first tried it. I think I tried it in 92. I think she tried to 91 or something.

4 [00:54:03] Then, uh, so she, she, she understands flying. She's got probably a hundred hours and maybe some 30, 30 mile across countries the back in the day. So she's, uh, she gets it. She gets it. Yeah. And then, um, yeah, she, um, luckily, uh, you know, trust in my abilities and I try to respect that. I try to like any flying, you're always, always evaluating the conditions.

4 [00:54:27] Uh, and especially in the Dolomites today, it does get tricky because sometimes it'll, you know, the clouds look pretty ripe, but it's not necessarily, you know, then it gets overcast sometimes if some high clouds come in and everything just kind of pulses back down again. And so it's, uh, you know, there's, each place has its, um, you know, some places have those kinds of clouds.

4 [00:54:48] You'd be like, Oh, I gotta get, I gotta be on the ground immediately. Whereas, um, I think the biggest, biggest one there with the tandem is you don't want to be flying a really windy day. You just use it. If it's a windy day, just, just don't fly. If, if it's, if it's light when, uh, you know, then, uh, then you can either get your escape path, but if you're, if you're on a light load and tandem and it gets windy, your, your, your escape routes are going to shut down really quick.

4 [00:55:20] So that's the one thing I would say, if anybody gets inspired by this and wants to do this with their kid, first of all, I'll be very honest with your, um, flying skills. Uh, you know, make sure that you feel very comfortable with your flying. And then of course, you know, mom or dad is cool. It is cool with it.

4 [00:55:41] And, uh, uh, and just, you know, treat it like any other tandem, but it's, you know, it's a light, lightly loaded tandem and it's your kid. So that changes the dynamics and what's going to happen when Tomas old enough to start doing this.

4 [00:56:03] I think he's a, yeah, he's already been flying with me. Yeah. This first flight when he was 11 months, uh, at that time he was more interested in the cows in the landing area of the flight itself. But now he's, he's already talking about birds and thermals and Cumulus clouds. Yeah, you mentioned it. I mean, when we're, when we're flying, he says, you know, like yesterday we had a little flight and, uh, uh, just a sweater, but he's like that are we, where are we going to land where it's landing area?

4 [00:56:29] Where's the landing area? I don't want to land in the water. So it's these three just turned three of you weeks ago. And, uh,

2 [00:56:39] but yeah, I'd say that he's probably going to get a chance to do this because I'm going to be 16 when he's going to be eight. Oh. Oh, he's eight years younger. Yeah, no. So we'll get to do this with, that'd be pretty good. So it's a nice smooth transition and Honza that keep you fit, man. You gonna be doing this in your 50s.

2 [00:57:03] Maybe by then I'll invest in a lighter way. Tandem. I don't know man. You use gear a long time. You've probably still got that harness that gave you a bunch of years ago. So in the future, you know, this one's kind of up in the air, but do you guys see yourself doing this for the foreseeable future?

4 [00:57:27] Yeah, I would like to, um, we're kind of starting to a contingency plan cause it looks like covid 19 might be a while. I mean, I think they're, they don't want to scare us too much and say it's a few months, but it's, uh, uh, I could see, you know, I'm, I'm starting to doubt June, June travel is going to happen or even, well, I'm hoping maybe we could push it towards the end of the summer, but, uh, what were we talking about doing maybe a few days, uh,

2 [00:57:55] and cross country skis and try to fly with those cause it was a pretty light. Yeah. I mean we could probably use a, you know, and try and like get a glob dog though, should set up fuck

4 [00:58:10] somewhere. Maybe do it. Uh, may maybe go McGee's South or get on to maybe something in the Owens, but before it gets too strong, maybe, you know, like late April, early may. Uh, and, and if there's still enough snow up their land in some of those box Canyon and kinda sky around for a little bit, set up camp sky around and then get up to higher Ridge and limit the Sierras are tough because you have to have several days.

4 [00:58:38] Ideally you want to create a BC, the calm winds are light easterlies ideally. So you're not in the li,

2 [00:58:45] gosh, maybe, I mean it's a little bit farther, but maybe the rubies would be a good place for a mission like that. There's not, I was, I just turned to that or there's not a lot of snow. I drove up through, I drove down through, you know where you and I were a couple of years ago, I had throat Joe down the rubies on the Eastern side down to through Vegas to go out to California. Then I came back up to Sierra is just so I could look at them.

2 [00:59:05] There's not much. No.

4 [00:59:07] Yeah. So, so that might be the way to go or, or early rather than late. Cause you know, being Nevada it can get pretty cranky. But I think, uh, we were there in may. So I think if it wasn't too much snow in April, that might that be something to do. Even if it was shorter, even if it was maybe they all speed or four days in that sense, we'd have to probably arrange some kind of a retrieve.

4 [00:59:30] Especially now that can't really, there's no public transport is shutting down.

2 [00:59:39] Hitchhiking is probably not all that reliable either. Will it never is in Nevada, there's nobody out there. But um, Martin we you in a few years we, are you excited to get into flying or do you see yourself being a pilot? Like dad,

3 [00:59:51] I like to try it. Definitely. Um, I do a lot of climbing nowadays, but I definitely like to try paragliding.

2 [01:00:00] Hmm. Or is climbing kind of your, what's your main kind of outdoor thing that you like to do?

3 [01:00:07] Um, outdoors. I don't get to climb outdoors that much because, well, I don't have the Kia yet. I usually vent it. Um, but outdoors thing that I like to do, I like to roller blade a lot. Um, but other than that, I'd say the climbing is like my main,

4 [01:00:31] it does. It was a, we have a climbing gym or called the rock naseum so, so he's been climbing there. And if the little a club or

3 [01:00:37] it's a class

4 [01:00:38] that's a class. Yeah.

2 [01:00:40] Are you guys flying together down in Chile too?

4 [01:00:43] A little bit. Yeah. Yeah, we do. Oh, we had two.

3 [01:00:46] Oh yeah. We hiked up to the Amica. We stuck up there for like five rules and

4 [01:00:55] this is a worldwide podcast. That's all right. So one of the fun rules though, if we're at it, is we got to fly down with my mom. Oh, cool. Yeah, we were up there. So my mom's been up, uh, via Rica volcano. But, um, those first time for Martin to go up to the volcano and we just went up at night with crampons and the wind was perfect for flying a trend them off.

4 [01:01:24] So we've got to fly down with Martin. I'm a mom off the volcano.

2 [01:01:28] Oh, that's very cool. I had one of the most special flights I've ever had in my life was, we were sailing up in Scotland and my mom came in for a couple of weeks and you know, as the, the, uh, we were out in the outer Hebrides, which is all basically just peat Moss. There's no trees and uh, you know, these crazy storms would come through and you're in these kinds of locks with the boat there.

2 [01:01:50] You know, there's saltwater and locks, but you can get really protected in these beautiful bays. And we learned very quickly that, you know, on the right kind of wind you could fly, you know, just whatever aspect, whatever, when whatever wind direction was blowing, you could find an aspect at work. And it was just rich story. You weren't doing any cross country, but it's just terrific. And so I started taking the clients, I had a tandem on board and I started, cause it wasn't really, wasn't great kid, you know the boat things all about kite surfing.

2 [01:02:14] And so I would take the clients, you know, flying and it never gets dark. You're up there the summer and it's, you know, it's like being in Alaska and never gets dark up there, you know, a couple hours a night kind of between one and three. So, you know, you'd fly in the morning and come down and have breakfast and he'd fly in the middle of the day. He come and have lunch, did you find the eating? And we were doing a lot of flying and you know, I didn't have any on anybody on board that was a pilot, you know, it was all just tandem stuff.

2 [01:02:37] And you know, each day my mom would be standing on the boat and you know, we'd come back for lunch and she was just, you know, she'd asked and she was so curious and it just, it never really occurred to me. She, you know, she's got pretty bad knees and she was getting older and uh, and find the, you know, I came down one day and I said, mom, would you like to do this? And she just clapped her hands. Oh, I thought you'd never ask. Yes, I'd love to do.

2 [01:02:58] Yes. So funny. Why did you ask me? It's so I brought her up and uh, you know, and she'd seen me fly around with these with the clients and stuff and I'd been keeping it really mellow, but she'd also seen me just fly and, and so, you know, we start, we started going and we're just doing these nice gentle passes back and forth and she kind of turned around at one point and she said, okay. Gavin like, you know, I've seen you do that stuff, I want to do some of that stuff.

2 [01:03:22] You know, w w really mom you, so I started doing these little mini wing over his. I come on, I've seen you do that stuff. Like I want to do some of that stuff. So, you know, after a while I'm just weighing in and around. I'm practically looping with my mom and she's just hooping and hollering and I, you know, and then I'd mellow it out cause I was afraid she was just going to start vomiting it.

2 [01:03:46] Mom, are you okay? I'll stop asking me that. Of course I'm okay. Keep doing that stuff. She was just loving it. I could bless you. And she still to this day talks about just how thrilling that was. It so special as well. No wonder I got, I got this from somebody. I guess it was you. Yeah, no, it's definitely, I think I've got, you know, the backstops genes from my parents for sure.

2 [01:04:10] I mean there's still, there's still hiking in their seventies. That's, that's terrific. Well, I hope you guys, I really hope that, uh, this thing quiets down. I think I'm in your camp. I think that's a bit of a reach right now, but, uh, you know, there's, I think we're, we're just sitting at the precipice is going to get worse before it gets better, but the hope it works out for you and, uh, and if it doesn't in June and hope something works out for you in this year's or something.

2 [01:04:35] But thanks for sharing your story and I'll be tracking you guys, uh, in the future and I have no idea if I'll do another X ops at this point, but you're always seem to be over about the same time, so hopefully our paths will cross on one of those. Yeah, sounds good. Gavin. Thanks for, thanks for giving us a chance to tell her story. Yep. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks Martin.

2 [01:04:55] Thanks Honza. I appreciate it.

0 [01:04:58] Birds,

2 [01:05:02] if you find the Cloudbase may have valuable, you can support it in a lot of different ways. You can give us a rating on iTunes or Stitcher or however you get your podcasts. That goes a long ways and help spread the word. You can blog about it on your own website or share it on social media. You can talk about it on the way out to lunch, your pilot friends.

1 [01:05:17] I know a lot of interesting conversations have happened that way and of course you can support us financially. This show does take a lot of time, a lot of editing, lot of storage and music and all kinds of behind the scenes costs. So if you can support us financially, all we've ever asked for is a buck a show and you can do that through a one time donation through PayPal or you can set up a subscription service that charges you for each show that comes out.

1 [01:05:41] We put a new show out every two weeks. So for example, if you did a bucket show and every two weeks it'd be about $25 a year. So way cheaper than a magazine subscription. And it makes all of this possible. I do not want to fund this show with advertising or sponsors. We get asked about that, uh, pretty frequently, but I for a whole bunch of different reasons, which I've said many times on the show, I don't want to do that and I don't like to having that stuff at the front and the show.

1 [01:06:05] And I also want you to know that these are authentic conversations with real people and these are just our opinions, but our opinions are not being skewed by sponsors or advertising dollars. I think that's a pretty toxic business model. So I hope you dig that. Um, you can support us. If you go to Cloudbase mayhem.com you can find the places to support, you can do it through patrion.com forward slash Cloudbase mayhem if you want a recurring subscription, you can also do that directly through the website.

1 [01:06:31] Uh, we tried to make it really easy and that will give you access to all the bonus material, a little video cast that we do and extra little, uh, nuggets that we find in conversations that don't make it into the main show. But we feel like you should here. We don't put any of that behind a paywall. If you can't afford to support us, then just let me know and I'll set you up with an account.

1 [01:06:51] Of course, there'll be lifetime and hopefully in your being in a position someday to be able to support us, but you'll find out that on the website, uh, all of you who have supported us or even joined our newsletter or bought Cloudbase, mayhem merchandise tee shirts or hats or anything, you should be all set up. You should have an account. You should be able to access all that bonus material now, thank you so much for listening.

1 [01:07:14] I really appreciate your support and we'll see you on the next show. Thank you.