Paul Guschlbauer and Thomas de Dorlodot rest during a Pre-Shoot for the Adreatic-Circle in Berchtesgarden, Germany on June 26th, 2014
Thomas de Dorlodot is probably the most enviable pilot in the world. He’s made a living out of traveling the world and documenting his expeditions. A 5 time Red Bull X-Alps competitor and Red Bull Athlete Tom started flying when he was 15 years old. He’s flown above 7,000 meters in Pakistan, paramotored over the Marquesas in French Polynesia, glided over volcanoes in Guatemala and Tanzania, hucked acro over Victoria Falls and is currently working on sailing around the world. His accolades and accomplishments are too many to even list here, but it hasn’t all been a rosy romp through la-la land and in this episode we dive into his two accidents this year, one a major accident during his Adriatic expedition with Paul Guschlbauer and the other that ended his X-Alps campaign on day 7; we talk about how Tom approaches risk; how he plays the sponsorship game; how he prepares mentally and a lot more. Check out this highlight reel of some of Tom’s incredible travels and then have a listen, prepare to be entertained!
Speaker 1: 00:00:00 Yeah. So it was funny. I mean, cause like when I was in college, you know, she tells me, I'm like, well, what, you know, what are your family? Do they work in communication? My Mom's a teacher and her do like, Oh, what is yours? And you know, they paraglider pilots and I thought like, so they're unemployed
Speaker 2: 00:00:12 words there from Mr Nick Greece, uh, from last week's podcast. If you missed that one, it's fantastic. Super inspiring to hear where nick is coming from and where he's going. I just got back from Iran. Uh, but we had a great conversation. Uh, you'll find firstname.lastname@example.org. Uh, this week I just got off the phone last night, a Skype conversation with the a search project wizard and red bull athlete and travel traveler. Extraordinary, uh, amazing pilot. Tom Dorado from Belgium. Uh, this guy has the life, uh, that all pilots in the world I'm sure, uh, very much envy, including myself. Uh, he has been around the world, uh, across Africa, French Polynesia, uh, all over the Himalayas. He's flown with the greatest of the grades. Uh, he's competed in the [inaudible] five times. He was the mastermind behind the search projects, uh, with Volkswagen and Interac and red bull. Uh, he's a red bull athlete of course.
Speaker 2: 00:01:13 Um, Tom and I have been friends for quite a long time. Uh, we get to know each other a little bit better in this year's, uh, Xcel ops in the 2015 ex ops this July. Unfortunately that race came to an end for him when he broke his foot, uh, crashing off the launch, uh, in Italy, which was very near where he had a major injury during Adriatic circle expedition with Paul Gushi Bauer where he broke his back, uh, got into some pretty nasty air and landing and, and uh, Kinda got unlucky. Um, he's had a couple of other accidents, uh, in his long career that started when he learned how to fly when he was 15 years old. He's now 30, so he spent half of his life underneath the wing and we go deep into all kinds of stuff. Got Some great questions on a post I put out on Facebook before the talk, uh, from some of our fans. And, and interested parties that wanted to hear about all kinds of things about from sponsorship to, uh, how, how he's, uh, approached risk and progression and how he's come back from these, uh, accidents mentally as well as physically. Uh, anyway, it's fantastic conversation, uh, super inspired by this guy. Uh, he's incredibly articulate and clearly passionate about what we all love. So without further ado
Speaker 3: 00:02:29 to Darla [inaudible] Tom Morning,
Speaker 1: 00:02:44 how are you? Hey, good morning. Good, good. And you, I guess it's not really the morning for you, it's just morning for me, but you're already willing to your day over there in Europe, but it's nice to sit down with you. I wish we could have done this. We tried it a little bit to do this at the start of the x Apps, but that was just a little bit much chaos for me. I couldn't get my act together.
Speaker 4: 00:03:01 True, true. Yeah, no, but thank. Thank you for, for waking up so early.
Speaker 1: 00:03:05 Oh, I know. I'd say it's my pleasure. It's a real, a real honor and a pleasure for me to sit down with you. Um, I've got a whole bunch of questions. You know, I posted a thing on, on Facebook yesterday and asked, you know, if our fans, if they had any questions for you and they, they've got some great ones, but I just was, uh, reading before we got online, I was reading on your website, you know, your bio and all the amazing things you've done. I was watching your search projects trailer, uh, for the millions of time. God, that film is beautiful and I'll have that up on, on my site when, when this goes live. But, um, I, I'd love to just rewind the clock a little bit. You're, you're still a very young guy, but you've been at this sport a long time. You got started when you were 15.
Speaker 4: 00:03:45 Yeah, he started really early. I was a, I was actually in boarding school here in Belgium and a friend of mine was flying paragliding in one day. He came with his glider at school and I started there. And uh, since then I never stopped. I was actually been only paragliding for the last 15 years, which is actually alpha of my life now. I'm 30, so, yeah, I know it's a, it's been a long ride. I mean, it's a, it's so many memories and so many good and difficult moments also. But, uh, yeah, I, it's been really cool. Right. Really,
Speaker 1: 00:04:12 and I, I definitely want to talk about some of those difficult moments. I know you've had a tough year, but, uh, the, you know, I, I'd love to just find out, you know, cause you got started. I mean, how do you go from being 15 and learning how to paraglide to becoming, you know, a red bull athlete. And was this your fifth XLP, this 2015 [inaudible] I mean, that's getting started really young, so I'd love to just find, you know, I, I didn't discover paragliding until I was well into my thirties. Um, I'd love to just find out how that progression happened. Well,
Speaker 4: 00:04:44 I mean, to be, to be honest, I started quite, um, started young, but I didn't have a car. I couldn't go to the flying places. And you know, Belgium is a, is a flat, flat country. We don't have many mountains out here. So, um, but I, but I started at a university and at the same time I didn't go, I didn't go to class too much, you know, and, uh, I was always looking at the, at the wetter and looking at the sky and, uh, with some of my friends, we were like so motivated that every doable, like every kind of a good day we would be out there and trying to fly as much as possible, but still it was not enough. So, um, I started to think about moving down to Spain and, uh, when I was 20, I think 22 years old, um, I had been flying for seven years already in May level was pretty good.
Speaker 4: 00:05:29 I was going to the Virgin Championship and I was flying a, a deep later already. And the, I did my first [inaudible]. Now I think I was 21, you know, it was 21 when they did my first excels. Uh, I was a little bit coming from nowhere, you know, being honest with you. It was like, uh, yeah, this guy is coming from Belgium. Flatlands he didn't, I didn't know much about the ogs. Um, but still I had a pretty good race. I was, I was in the top 10 most of the, of the race. And then a, I had a small crash and I broke my hand. There's nothing but still I had to, to cancel in and leave the race, but it was used a really cool, really good time. And then I, I started to think, okay, now if I want to get to the next level, I need to fly more.
Speaker 4: 00:06:08 So I moved down to Spain and I went to live in Granada in southern Spain and on the Lucia. And that was a really good move because actually there I met Ramen Marias, who is a three times promoter world champion and Raul Rodriguez, who was at the time, many times, uh, acrobatic world champion. He's a legend. And so for me, it was a great opportunity to learn with the best, you know, and so I started to spend a lot of time to get, I was with Ramin almost every weekend, uh, almost every day actually flying with him, helping him out with these competitions, uh, preparing the gear with him. Um, he was, he really told, told me a lot and helped me to learn a thing perimeter, but also paragliding. And that's really when I started to get good at it. Um, and then came the first small, um, the first few small expeditions, I did a trip from bristle to eastern ball.
Speaker 4: 00:06:59 It was a 3000 kilometer trip with the promoter. You already sponsored at this point? I was, no, I had really good contacts with rebel. Okay. Um, since the exalts and in Belgium we didn't have many flying man, you know, like, and, and that was, I was scared of a pushing and it was the time when, um, red bull kind of liked to do what we now call the Garia style things, you know, it was a, you know, all the ways. So, um, so I remember one time I flew from the top of Metro Picchu in Peru and I got arrested for that and they kind of helped me to get out of the, of, of jail and, and we made good prep after that. Rebel Syria. It's a cool story. Can you write something for us for the website. And that's pretty much how we got in contact.
Speaker 4: 00:07:42 Interesting. Oh Wow. So it's always interesting to end up in jail. You know, my, my, my partner for a long time, who, you know, Jody McDonald, she, you know, she's over in Africa doing a big shoot for Laker right now. And her goal was to get arrested. She said, you know, you've got no serious photographer can, can never claim their photographer if they haven't been in jail. I've been in jail many times, still many times like in Peru. And then I think only in, in utopia when we crossed Africa with the search team, we were arrested only in Ethiopia five times. And so, and sometimes it was really serious. One day we flew above major a days and we didn't know and they, we got arrested. It was really nasty. But, um, so yeah, that's, that's how I got in contact with rebel in at the time, you know, it was, I was studying communication, so I knew a bit about editing, about photography, about writing a cool story. And so it was the two things at the same time, you know, on one side it was, I was I think a good at what I was doing flying, but also I could tell stories and do it well. And I was, it's not only about competition, it's not about only about results, but it's also about telling the story and coming back with cool footage and, and trained to build a,
Speaker 1: 00:08:56 Oh, I didn't know that about your background then. Yeah. Cause one of the questions I wanted to ask, I mean, of course you've been competing the x ops, but I didn't know you were a competition pilot as well. I've, I figured that was something, uh, I, I, you know, I haven't, I only got into competitions in 2012 and, uh, you know, I remember seeing you, you and Horatio did some Acura at the start of the Super Final in Columbia a couple of years ago. But yeah, but then you didn't compete in it. So you were, you used to compete in competitions.
Speaker 4: 00:09:21 Yeah, but not in, I didn't go far. Like I, I didn't really, I liked the format, but it's still like I needed more freedom, you know? And so I really love to go to the bathroom time. Been cheap. I did to bridge a championship, the French jumping ship competition like that, you know, because I have friends and it's cool. But many times I found myself doing like a para waiting and standing there and waiting for good weather. And also days that they would say, yeah, today we have to fly this direction and do this and that. Then I had other plans or other ideas and so it's, for me it was, I didn't really get into it, you know, I like it. And I, and I was pushing and doing some resorts I think, but still it was not my thing. So, um, when I started to do adventures and B work thing and start to cover distance with the Burger later, or hiking or the excel format is much more a May thing, it would say the rebel leaks out just really may, may, yeah.
Speaker 4: 00:10:14 The way I like to practice, um, and if, if there is a competition I still want to do, it's the [inaudible], but, uh, I wouldn't go for PWC. And I mean, I think it's great and it's the Formula One, you know, in those guys, I really will. I really, when I look at it, I, I love it. But for example, now I've been following the guys who are in India and they haven't been flying for four days and it's, you know, I, I don't know. It's not really, I like to move around and choose my own bath.
Speaker 1: 00:10:41 I know. I think that's quite constrained, isn't it? But in the, in the competitions, I mean, I think you, um, I, I got into competitions because everybody kept telling me that, you know, that's how you learn and you, you know, you get more from a week in a competition than a year, a year of flying. I think that's true. You know, I, I, but I think you have to have, um, you have to have a really smart approach to competitions. I don't know if you were following that. We just returned from the nationals in the Sierras and you know, the first two days there were two major accidents, both of them. Uh, we're lucky in that the pilots survived. Uh, but they were both very, very broken. And I mean, I think that that, you know, are you, you have to approach them in the right way. You know, they can be very dangerous course. The X ops is even more dangerous obviously, but, but, um, anyway, so you, you did this long Paramada trip to Istanbul from your home, from Belgium. Yeah. That's a little ways.
Speaker 4: 00:11:32 That was really cool. We had no budget. That all, I mean it was, it was the first very small deal I made with red bull. And they said, okay Tom, we like your already and we will, we will help you out. And so they help us to pay the, the gasoline and uh, you know, the basics. But, uh, it was really a surviving a trip. We were sleeping outside and you know, we would land just next to the gas refill the tank. We didn't have support or anything, you know, and we covered 3000 kilometer in a month or something like that. It was really, we crossed the yards and we, and I don't in the promoter, we're doing great. I mean we, they survived the old way and we, we got arrested in Greece because we landed in minefield cause you know, when you're in Turkey, you need a visa to get in Turkey, you need, you need a stamp on your passport. So we had to land the, the rest of the way. We just crossed the borders without asking anyone. But, um, so we landed there and we landed just in, in a main field. And, uh, we got arrested of course, and it was, it was still sturdy. It was pretty, pretty crazy. It was another arrest. Yeah.
Speaker 4: 00:12:34 But then they, the, they were really at the end. They were really friendly. We, we got lucky. We met one, one of the military guy was a [inaudible] kind of a fixed everything for us and we, we could keep going, but it was great. We cross the border walking in, we took off again and flew all the way to, to the sea to do Istanbul. Um, that was the first, let's say, big trip. And then I started to think, okay, this is, I mean it's, it's cool. It's a, we really enjoy doing this and there is a way that we can talk about it. Uh, you know, share it as much as possible with videos, with photos, refer, um, you know, small, small stories on the magazines and stuff. Then we started to think that maybe we could make a living out of it, you know,
Speaker 1: 00:13:17 and when you say we, who is your, who, who are your team?
Speaker 4: 00:13:21 And at the time I was playing with a friend, it's called Maxime. Um, but, but no, I mean slowly, slowly we start to work with a photographer and then a cameraman and then, uh, or [inaudible] the reigns. Of course, this is one of my best friend now. And we fly a lot together. And, um, this is really when we realize, okay, we, we could survive out of paragliding and this is what we want to do. And so the first five years were, were like that, like really pushing and trying to find cool angles and most of it, you know, basically we would, we were trying to have as much fun as possible and fly as much as possible and, and as much as possible. And, um, and yeah, I think now we can have, uh, we reached a point where I can see I'm making a living out of paragliding. Um, it's, it was not my main goal, you know, but, but the good news is that now we can keep on pushing and, you know, imagine bigger trip, uh, organize bigger expedition. And it's a, it's really cool. It's a, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: 00:14:19 This is kind of your, your job now is just to dream big. I mean, I think you have probably the most enviable job in, in, in paragliding in it. I like my job that, yeah, you're, you were really setting at an incredibly high standard. It's been impressive to watch Tom. Fantastic stuff. If you, if you could, if you could, like, this is kind of an theorial question and maybe you've already even answered it, but what is it about paragliding that just has you so wrapped up in, is, are you in, are, are you still as passionate today as you were when you first started flying at 15?
Speaker 4: 00:14:50 You know, it's question like,
Speaker 1: 00:14:52 um, I have to, yeah, being honest with you, like, I don't know. I think for me, the, the very first flight I had was the best of my life. Um, yeah, I think so. But then, you know, it's, it's so much, it's so much more than flying. Um, flying is, is the, the part of the iceberg, you know, that you see, we can see. But the rest is, is, uh, the cultural thing, you know, discovering a new country, a new culture, um, meeting people, you know, the old community is amazing also. It's so friendly and I really love to spend time with other pilots and um, and there is so much to do. And I would say like if you, you fly in New Zealand wouldn't be the same that flying in France or flying in Patagonia or flying in South Africa. So it's kind of a, a different sport every time with different goals.
Speaker 1: 00:15:38 And if, if I do get a little bit tired of cross country, then I go more acro and then if I do want to come back to long distance or byk aid and I think it's a, it's changing so much in all the time we have different approach and so I'm still not tired about it. And when I crashed last year, I was really, it came to my main, people were saying, okay, he's going to stop flying now and it's gonna get a real job. And things like that. And it, it, I, it never crossed, crossed my mind, like really is from the moment I crashed. I only thought about coming back and playing again. And I'm so in love with it and I think I made this choice 15 years ago. I decided to make my, you know, my life was going to be all around paragliding.
Speaker 1: 00:16:20 But having said that, I don't know, maybe in five years I have different views and I want to do something else or, you know, a different approach. I think you know more about that because you've been sailing for 13 years and then now you're flying and maybe you go back to something else. I think you just have to follow your art and at the end, you know, it's, do what you enjoy and as long as you enjoy and as long as you're passionate about it, you will have energy to share, to, to, to push and to keep going. But if one day I wake up and I'm sick of it or tired of it, they learn just a do something else, I think. But, uh, cross that bridge when you get to it. Yeah, I think you, yeah. Because also, I mean, I had this discussion with Brad Sender, um, a few years ago in Pakistan, and he, he thought, he said to me, you know, I don't embrace the conditions anymore.
Speaker 1: 00:17:09 I don't, I don't like it so much and before I don't feel so motivated. And it's also when it gets dangerous because, um, you know, we always pushing a little bit higher, a little bit thorough, related, faster, a little bit closer to the world. Uh, but you have to be 100%. If you do that. And if you, if you know that 100% or if you're not fully motivated, it can even get dangerous. I think. So it's, um, something I really wanted to dive into you and it's, it's, it's a great, uh, it's a great bridge talking about Brad Sanders, you know, uh, he was one of my partners when we did the, the Sierra trip, the CRV, and he crashed really badly the, the very first day. And, uh, you know, it was, uh, it was, I, you know, I have, I've had seen quite, I've had quite a few friends that have had a really bad accidents like that where, um, in fact one of the questions that came through on Facebook yesterday when I put out that I was going to be talking to you, um, I think miles, no, let's see.
Speaker 1: 00:18:05 Let me just find it because it was, it was, um, it was a really good question. Um, yeah. Miles Connolly wanted to know, like the best flying choices you've made versus the worst. Um, and you know, I, that was one of those where you could see that Brad was, you know, 70%. He was flying scared and, and uh, he just wasn't all there and, and really questioning everything. You could see it in his eyes. And I have known quite a few people who have, um, you know, have, have been like that when they're, when they're, they're trying to get back in the game, they're trying to get back on top or where they, even where they were. And I know in James Bradley is a good friend of mine and he had a question for you as well in regards to this. He had a couple of scary moments at the, uh, at the Swiss, uh, I think it was a Swiss league event or meal on a Swiss nationals this summer.
Speaker 1: 00:18:55 I threw his reserve on one day and kind of had a crash and other day and he was out at the Sierras with us and was really struggling mentally. And so he wanted me to ask you just how you, you know, how do you come back from, from a a broken back, uh, mentally because I, you know, and seeing and seeing these other accidents, you know, the from, from an outsider's perspective or he leaves with Brad, you know, we all talked about it a lot afterwards. You know, we had 18 days of that trip to go, he crashed on the very first day and, and we all, you know, the consensus was that he shouldn't have, he just shouldn't have been in the air. You really need to recognize these times where you aren't on your, on your game. And to recover that game. I think people go about it in different ways, but I'd love to know, I'd love to find out how you went about it because you, that was a major accident.
Speaker 4: 00:19:40 I think you have to be really honest with yourself and just accept the fact that it will take time, you know, and, um, it's not that you crash and then the next day it's, oh, it's all good at like nothing happened. Um, of course you're, it's always compared to, you know, when you have a big party and you, and you get drank and you drink a lot of vodka and then the next morning you smell, you, you have the smell of vodka and you, you will never take a drink, you know? And even the brand is saying no, you know, it's like, no, don't do that again. Um, and it's, it's a little bit the same. You know, when, when I crashed, I broke my back. I, I broke many bones and, um, I stayed for weeks, you know, hospital and stuff. But, uh, but since the day I crashed, I really wanted to go back and to finish this aggregating circle trip that I started with fog Shubauer.
Speaker 4: 00:20:25 And when we came back the year after, like maybe eight months later, we arrived at the site of the crash and I look at history and I thought, well, still there is a thousand kilometer to go. Um, and I d I didn't want to go. Like really my whole body was saying no at way is, are you stupid or what? You know, why do you come back? Um, but at the same time, a part of me wanted to overcome this fear and, and uh, [inaudible] you know, I cannot back, you know, it's, I have to go all the way. And Paul was really, um, really good to me. Like you said, we take our time slowly, slowly when they, after the other, um, if you don't like it, we learned and a day later or two days later, I was, I was back at my best level like I was, I was not thinking about it anymore.
Speaker 4: 00:21:12 I think you have to get back on the horse. You know, was this something, um, would you say that you, you know, you had a, uh, program, I know in one of your bio's and mentioned that you had a coach, do you still have a coach? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. And I think, uh, yeah, when a, when a crashed and then he came back last year for example, I, I decided I started to fly again in Columbia because, you know, [inaudible] later Bravo and [inaudible] and stuff. It's, it's the, it's the perfect place to come back because the terminal is smooth. It's not big mountains. You usually don't get strong wind. It's flyable every everyday you get lots of flying hours. And so I went back to the mountains. We've, um, we've a seed later. Um, you're a don't have problems lang with simulators, you know, their grade, they're doing the, they're doing amazing laters now.
Speaker 4: 00:21:58 So I flew that and I, we crossed all the whole country. We did the Travis IA that Goca. Um, which was a, isn't it usually as a for 400, 450 kilometers or something like that. But it was great to come back to it and fly there and get lots of flying hours. But really after two or three days, I was, I was back. Um, it was not, it's not that now when it gets stressful, I get, uh, I get a blog or anything like that. I, I really feel great when I fly in a, I just, the thing is, and that's really hard to say, but, uh, when I crashed, I usually, I always used to say, I used to say that if you practice because you made a mistake somewhere, you know, and it can be because you were tired or you're not playing with the right gear or, um, you are stressed or whatever you're playing in bad conditions, but that they really, it was okay.
Speaker 4: 00:22:48 The wind was strong, but it was nothing extreme. And I, I came to the ground, like I was flying down above a huge field. There was no obstacles, no nothing. And Paul was laying just in front of me and nothing happened. You lend it. And when I came, I got a turbulence and they, and I crashed. And it's, no, I kind of have to live with that. Like with the fact that paragliding is actually dangerous. We know that there is that uncontrolled aspect. Even if I, if I, I think that I could have been more focused maybe or I could have chosen maybe a safer place to land or I could have learned higher in altitude and stuff. Um, but there is this point where you're just going down, there is no conditions anymore, the wind trunk and it's just okay just playing with your lack, you know, kind of, um, and it happens to everyone at it.
Speaker 4: 00:23:37 And I think, no, I, I have, when I go flying, I know there is a big risk or there is a risk to get hurt, but, uh, either accepted or you go home. And I, I decided to accept it because of the male. Um, you know, everything I love is out there, you know, so it's a, it would be bustle for me to renounce and say, okay, no, I, I stopped playing because of the dangers. I just have to do it with more. Um, I have to be as careful as I can and, uh, you know, and that's it.
Speaker 1: 00:24:08 I think we have to do it. You know what, I think we have to be rude. Like you said, I liked your advice that you have to be really honest with yourself. And the very first episode, uh, of this podcast, it was a recording actually, that it wasn't meant for a podcast. We sat down with Bill Belcourt, who's kind of our, he's our Yoda over here, you know, he's kind of everybody's mentor. He's been at the game a long time and, and, and he has this concept of the, he calls it bringing it, you know, where you, you know, to fly across country it, anytime you're, you're really pushing it or really going for distance or going for a win in a race, you very often have to put your glider in a, in a bad place. And Yeah. And if you're not mentally prepared to do that, you just shouldn't be in the air that day.
Speaker 1: 00:24:51 That's just not, you know, because I, I have very few big flights that have been mellow the whole way. You know, especially in a place like the Alps, when I was training, you know, this, this spring for the ex ops, I was trying to, to fly the course and you and I actually got quite close together when you are finishing your Adriatic circle. Uh, and it was actually near, uh, near your crash. I was, I was doing a big triangle from, from more naira and Bellin Zona and it was quite a strong north Ferndale and I, I flew up the Doma dose SLA and then tried to get over the Simplot and it was too strong there and I backed out and I, and I went up to the Newfoundland and it was just smooth and beautiful. And it was actually the day that Peter Clineman set the record for Marinara.
Speaker 1: 00:25:33 It was just incredibly lovely. And I flew instead of flying back to Marinara, I really wanted to check out what we call the big c a, you know, towards the Rolo Pass and back down to bell in Zona. And so I flew over the past and it was lovely, lovely, lovely. Until I got to the Uralla then it was just naval area. Yeah. The North fern was, was dumping into there. And you know, it, it, it w w led literally from, you know, a class one flight, uh, to just like fighting for my life and, and uh, you know, and when that happens, you just have to t you have to bring it, you have to be, you know, you have to, it that will happen. If you're going to paraglide and anything you
Speaker 4: 00:26:10 go and fight, it's you have to fight very often they look at my letter and I say, Hey, is that all you have? Like in fighting mode? And I think for them, like the best advice I could give to anybody that is to, is to fly a little bit of acrobatic because it's a, I've learned so much from what ICO, like really it's, um, it's now that if I do have to store my letters or to do anything, like if I'm twisted and things like that, I'm so much more concentrated than in so much more focused, uh, than before, before I just lose my mind. And, and, and I wouldn't know what to do, but, uh, so acrobatic is really good, really good for that. And I totally agree with what you say. It's also when we fly in, in Pakistan for example, is where you have to be on a fighting mode.
Speaker 4: 00:26:54 And when I always say to pilots who kind of hesitate and are not really sure, as I say, if there is a doubt, there is no doubt, you know what I mean? It's like if you, if you think you shouldn't fly then you shouldn't fly, you know? Or if you, and it's very simple, but uh, I think it's a, it's the basic and uh, we're at at the end, we're just playing with our legs from time to time. And it's a, if you have a bad feeling, you should listen to your intuition and just stand down and no problem with that. And the problem is with the group and the team spirit and people will be pushing and say, hey man, come on man, don't be, don't be pushy. Just go afraid. And no, actually we should respect, I mean I have a lot of respect for those guys.
Speaker 4: 00:27:34 Or for example, I'm thinking about, Michael Gilbert was a really good friend that was flying with him the day he decided to stop the x out, you know, this year. And we were playing together and he was really nasty. He was very turbulent and I have to say it was kind of enjoying it and, and I think it's a mixture of we are really tired. We, we know we can fly those conditions, the gliders safe. So I was having a good time, but I could tell he was not having a good time. And he was, he couldn't see the point anymore of pushing so much and so hard and taking so many risks, so much risk to just be maybe getting to the top 10 or, you know, it didn't make sense to him. So he turned, he really, we were flying together and he turned around and went straight down to the valley. And uh,
Speaker 1: 00:28:16 I remember that. I remember that day I was, I was a, you know, he, he had caught up with me at the A, I had a couple of really bad days and fell off the front and, and he caught up to me in near Saint Moritz, uh, the night before and the, and then the next day, uh, you know, we flew into that peace soup down at, near Chia, Vienna. And yeah, I remember watching his track log where he just said, you know what? Fuck this, I've had enough. And I understood it because that was a hard section to get through. I was, that was a low point for me as well, where it was just like, my God, this is just,
Speaker 4: 00:28:46 yeah. And you know what I really like is that we had this conversation and he called me and said, what do you think? And this and that, and we respond. We have the same sponsor, you know, and so he called gradient and I know that Andre from radio and said, man, don't worry. There's nothing to prove. You know, the most important is yet that you, you come out in one piece and, you know, and so I really appreciate that. It was the same when I crashed. You know, when you crash, you think, okay, now everyone's going to let me down. You know, maybe cause I crashed and these and that. And, and at the end they was so good to see that the sponsor, we're still there. We're still supporting a lots, you know, and I've heard from red bull on Volkswagen, I'm coming, don't worry, get back on your feet, take your time.
Speaker 4: 00:29:28 As long as it needs, you know, and it's, that's the, for you and I, it's the basic, you know, but, but also when we have been pushing so much, it's, and I never stopped for the last 10 years. It was always an expedition from one to the other. It was good to hear that you don't have to be at 100% all the time, you know, um, you can sometime rest and, yeah, yeah. Compare the accident, uh, with your back in your wrist and the [inaudible] what happened and you know, cause you and I haven't had a chance to talk except by a couple of quick notes of via Facebook. What happened with that accident? The second one that, this, this time, um, it was, I have to say it was a mistake. I made a mistake there. I was, uh, we were flying with federally and we were in a pretty good position.
Speaker 4: 00:30:13 Um, there was, uh, I was about an hour behind you by the way, that, yeah, we got all of that. Cool. Now we had at a very good day, really flying in fighting mode and at really having a good time. And then we decided to not to walk too much because we had a good Montaner good flying site nearby. So we had a good night. I had a good breakfast. I was really fit in, you know, you can see in these houses that the top 10 at the beginning, and it's like, um, people pushing the lot, getting really tired. And for me, I work kind of a, I'm kind of a diesel, uh, mater, you know, I started slow and then tried to get back into it. And, um, he was happening at that time. I was really feeling strong and stuff, so it was good. But, uh, anyway, we decided to, we landed there, um, because we did a big transition in, we arrived to low, so we landed there with 30.
Speaker 4: 00:31:04 We walked back up to the, to the mountain and then, um, it was, we had, we could have taken off from one place, but it was not the best place. There were some cables below 'em a few, three years and stuff. So we started to climb a little bit higher, uh, from the call and there it was really steep, like really, really steep and fairly took a first and he did it perfectly. I really felt, again, that's, that's not, it doesn't look too hard, but it was very steep, so steep that if you, if you miss a takeoff, you most likely going to fall down the doorway, you know? And, uh, and that's what happened. I inflated my ladder, but the lines state made some nuts, you know, it stayed dangle a little bit in the rocks. And then when, when the glider came above my head, I felt some pressure but not enough.
Speaker 4: 00:31:49 But you know the typical situation where you think, okay, no problem. I jump in and then it's got to fly anyway. It dealed may take a few seconds but it will fly. But it didn't because the wind was sketchy and it never flew. And so I fell down. But I felt the first, I think I felt eight meters or six meters, I crashed. And then I jumped over the rocks and then fell down in there. I could see 150 or maybe 200 meters of steep rocks. You know, I was gonna I really, I had the time to think, okay, this is it. You know, and, and you know when I've thought a little bit crazy say that, but I felt a no worries is not going to hurt because I remember from the last crash, it didn't really hurt. You know, at the moment you crash, the light goes off basically strong and surveillance that.
Speaker 4: 00:32:33 And I remember thinking that when I saw the, the, the fall I was gonna go through, I, okay, this is not going to hurt. That's it. You know? And um, and then my letter got my lines got tangled in the rocks and, uh, old Mae Ray side. Yeah. All the right lanes of the daters. Um, as it later broke. And so I only had lines on my left side. The left razor was, was still a holding me. And so I, I hit the rock really hard with my food. Tenay only broke my foot, but it was no is nothing in regards of the, the whole situation, you know?
Speaker 1: 00:33:08 Right. Yeah. So, but he sounds like a little bit of luck there too.
Speaker 4: 00:33:13 Yeah, I need to, it took two hours to two and a half hours for the helicopter to come. And what is a little bit crazy is that it, it was the same any copter than a year before as an a. And they said, do you want to go to billings? Oh now Lugano and I said, okay, it's good about in Xanax cause I have friends there. So I arrived there and yeah, they, it sounds crazy, but I had the same red little hat. I had the same group flooding. I had my backpack with me and they recognize me, you know, because I made some good friends there. I stayed quite a long time. So, and then they used to call me the iron man because when I crashed, I, I broke all my bones, but I was kind of okay. And, uh, so they were like, oh, the iron man is back.
Speaker 4: 00:33:56 I found it a fat [inaudible] to be honest. But, but at the same time, you know, it's, uh, you know, it can happen. And this time, this time, uh, blame is on me. Like really? Um, I, I should have found a better spot, but you know, you know how the [inaudible] is, you know, and that day fell, he landed, he was six at the end of the day. And I think we would have done this flight together. I mean, it was the, the, the plan. So, uh, but you never know. And, uh, I didn't, I didn't look too much for the, the results. I was really there for the game and the, the adventure. So yeah,
Speaker 1: 00:34:30 it, Louise Tapper is the sup, was the supporter for nickname and ends a team New Zealand. And I think you've already answered this question, but he wanted to know, um, you know, would you, or will you do it again? You've already said you're really excited to do again. So I think we already know that, but, um, and, and would you, would you do it if you weren't a red bull athlete? Was this something you'd be, you know, attracted to and wanting to do regardless?
Speaker 4: 00:34:53 Yeah, I think it's a, it's, for me, it's the old adventure. I think there's a few things that the cells has been evolving so much. Um, uh, the first time I was 21 years old and I remember I went to the McDonald's the first evening to get dinner, you know, and it was, it was like this, you know, I, I listened to the podcast of nail scale and in those guys and it was exactly that. You know, we would arrive there and sure we, we, we would, we were arriving the day before the start kind of, you know, and there was nothing like now it is now. It's so well organized and everything is so um, professional and, and the people approach it very perfectly. But at the time it was sleeping in the back of my car. I had the 1000 year old bed jet for the old trip and we
Speaker 1: 00:35:38 were only eating pasta three times a day. Mason Porter was on holidays. I told me she sue her. Yeah, come on. It was a good friend of mine asset man, we will have a great time. You can fly, you can enjoy, you can visit the places we go and stuff. So I would see him like one or twice per day, you know, it was, it was so different. And, uh, we would go always by teams and I go, we always drawing the French or the Germans or the Austrian and we would go together. I W I would really, if someone was five k in front, it would give you a call and say, Hey, I work for you. We go together. And it was really more a more friendly, not, not a friendly competition because people were still pushing quite a lot and we didn't have time limits.
Speaker 1: 00:36:16 So we were pushing [inaudible]. So, but it was different. What I'm trying to say is that it's, it's, it's so it's getting faster and it's getting more interesting and um, each time more. And, uh, and I still see that may level is getting, I am getting better at it. I get, I have more experience. Um, so I still think I have something to do. And also I never made it to Monaco, which I think this year would have been a really good year to make it to Monaco. But, uh, I never made it to Monaco, so I really have to finish this. Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I've reflected a lot. I'm actually working on a book about the XL, so I'd like to hear about your book that you just published as well. But, uh, you know, this was my, it was my first one and it was, uh, you know, I, I've been very fortunate to have a lot of incredible experiences in my life and I've done, you know, you did great expeditions in a God, it was fun that you're now raising a good time.
Speaker 1: 00:37:11 Come again. It was just an outrageously good time. It was just so much fun. You know, we'll do it again. You want to ask for sure. You know, we were on the way up to the Geisbert day one. Uh, you know, the, then my kind of ground support made my trainer, he came down from the top to bring me some water and some goo and stuff. And, and from there on the way up, we were already talking about the second one the whole, the whole time through. We were talking about the second one. You know, and I, I think what's really exciting for us as it is a team is because we were rookies, we meet so many mistakes, you know, and they were all completely forgivable mistakes. They were mistakes that we knew we would make. And you know, like I didn't have the right maps on my phone and we, we met, we made a lot of, you know, a lot. Pretty much all the mistakes were, were, were mostly mistakes I made in the air, but also just, uh, rushing, you know, and that's what there was one of the pieces of advice you gave me before the race is, you know, don't rush, don't rush. And yet even with everybody telling me that we still rushed and when we would rush, you know, my, my best date was the day after your injury as well. I landed, I had gotten caught in the valley winds and landed about 10 cases.
Speaker 1: 00:38:21 And I wasn't just looking at it at your drag news day. That was a big day, you know, and it was, again, it was the only day. It was one of the, uh, the day other than the first day where I flew, well because I was rested, you know, I had landed that day, my, my feet were annihilated and Bruce wanted me to rush off, kiss Ferdie and all those guys were just in front of me and I said, no, I don't. I'm going to sleep. I'm going to take care of my feet and, and we're going to thrash those guys tomorrow because I'm going to fly straight through where they all went up around the big sea and you know, and it, it was kinda like, if it'll work and we'll be a hero move or it won't work and we'll be done. And, but either way it'll be fun. And, uh, it's Zoe worked til we got lucky.
Speaker 4: 00:39:02 No, but you, you did great. You know, before the Galahad Dick Circle, I was at publisher Bauer's place. And His dad said to me, if you want to be fast, you have to go slow, you know? Yeah. And I kind of like the saying, you know, I was like in, in any index out, it's totally this. But you know, like if you see guys like fairly, for example, a founding northern skeleton from Holland is a, is just really thinking about the next move and doing his own thing. And it works and it pays off, you know? And when people are, I was, I was the first three or four days I was with the French guys and, uh, um, one of the youngest one on. So in any was a English pushing summer, he was running all day. He's ready. Yeah. But, uh, but in the evening I was with him.
Speaker 4: 00:39:42 Yeah. And he wouldn't be destroyed or as they say, yeah. It's just, you have to really, it's a, it's a very strategical race and really complicated and it's, um, it's so good. And the same time it's, um, I think this year was a really special year being as he was very dangerous for everyone. Yeah. Um, I think we all agreed on that the conditions were not really in the best conditions we could have. And we were flying in very crazy conditions. I remember the day I flew to Atlanta, I had a really good flight that day and when I learned that, I thought the day I left them behind for sure, you know, I was playing with 10 other guys and I thought with this kind of slang, with the risk I took, I left them behind for sure. And then they came in Deland that one after the other and, and I thought this is crazy. You know, the 11 isn't going so high and, but it's interesting and it's nothing like people would look at it, they are in front of the computer and they think, Oh, I would've gone there because it's these, or do these face are these, did I think people don't really realize what we going through with the winds in the valley. Weightings in the conditions that we encounter on the way
Speaker 1: 00:40:48 [inaudible] I always call my big gay day eight, the day after you got hurt when they went from him from Belen Zona to, or Sierra, you know, across the Matterhorn that w at one point that day I was with, uh, Powell, the, the uh, no, sorry, I was with the Polish pilot. Um, yeah, yeah. And uh, and I realized my God, you know, I've been flying all day. I haven't seen one recreational pilot, you know, and one of the most busy places to fly in Switzerland. And, and then I realized, you know, cause it was such hard work that day. It was, there was so much wind. And I think that when people look at it from the outside and they see us doing these big flights, they think, oh, it must be, you know, it must be really nice. But I, you know, most of the days, you know, the, the first day being the major exception were not that I would choose to go fly a pair of lighter or they'd be days I'd go mountain biking or something.
Speaker 1: 00:41:37 You know, it was, yeah, that was really interesting. We had a long con, and I don't want to get too much off of base here with your talk, but you know, I, it was a really, I had a really interesting talk in Monaco. The first, the night I got in with, with Derek Gaudy and Paul and, and patio. And you know what, Dear God, he was shaking when he was talking about his trip. He was, he was really, you know, and he, he's crazy. I trained with him in the spring. I mean, he, he's a really skilled acro pilot and he pushes really hard. And he flew on a day that I would have never flown when we were training and near, near his house. It actually was in Switzerland, but it's just a crotch. And before the, the, the turn point in Saint Moritz and it was windy.
Speaker 1: 00:42:16 It was horrific. And, and he launched and I thought, God, I don't, and it really scared me because I don't, I still, I thought, I don't think I would launch in this, in the race either, you know? And, but uh, you know, he had, we all had, we all had a scary, very scary calls and I think the outside world, maybe they, they can see that, but I think that, uh, you know, it's, it's one of these, it's a, it's a incredible race because you have to continually push that line. And I think, like you said, if you're in the right frame of mind, you know, before the race, I had several weeks when I was there training, I wasn't in that frame of mind that was flying well, but, but I, you know, when things would have was I was constantly looking, my glider glow shit, what was that? What was that? You know? Whereas it suddenly in the race you get more in the flow and when that stuff happens you're like, like you say, you look at your glider and go, come on. Is that all you got? Let's, yeah,
Speaker 4: 00:43:05 I think it's also because we are, we're flying, we're really so tired. And I think sometimes we don't realize anymore how dangerous it is. Like, and I'm not saying that we're not focused, but the thing is when you've slept four hours and walk 35 k in the morning before takeoff, it's, it's where there, but not, not as much as if you had a good breakfast, a good night, if you were on radio with your friends and stuff, you know, and some, but at the same time, you, when, when I think is what I use amazing with the six houses that it gives you, it shows you the possibility and what is possible to do in paraglider. I would never thought that it was possible to fly so much in the lease site, for example. You know, uh, in cover distance with very strong winds and things I'd add. And it's a, it's interesting and you see that actually paragliding is capable of amazing, uh, amazing things. And it's, uh, it's interesting. Yeah. I, I think it's a very good way to, to learn. And, uh, I think for all of us it's a such a cool, cool event. And Yeah, to answer your question, I think I'll go again. And even, even if I was not sponsored by red bull anymore, I would really want to take part in and be there for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: 00:44:12 Well let's, let's switch gears here. Another, another question that came through by a gentleman named [inaudible] from, from Norway. He, he really wants to go to Greenland next summer and fly and it sounds like maybe he doesn't have a, you know, a whole lot of hours. And so he wanted me to ask you, you know, you have flown all across Africa and Pakistan and uh, [inaudible] flew over, Victoria Falls and they flew para motors and the mark cases. Uh, and so I want to ask you what's next with your search projects, but when you go to all these different places, how do you, he wanted to know, how do you get over your fears of flying a new place? Cause some of these places are, are obvious and some are not. You know, some, some you don't, you don't know the line. And when I did the trip with will, uh, last year across the Canadian Rockies, we had no idea what was ahead of us. So how do you, how do you approach that side of the game?
Speaker 4: 00:45:04 You know, W it's interesting, it's a very good question because I think we're, we have been educated to get there, you know, to get to a, um, a flying site, um, to get to, to check the wind sock, to talk with other pilots about dangers around and things like that. And so people only, they only been doing that, you know, they've only known, um, these kinds of flying of course for them is really hard to understand that we just go to any mom thing, take off and go, you know. Um, but at the end it's a little bit also what we do in Dex hubs, you know, and you realize that this is what it's made for. Apparently. Letters just to, you know, and let the, you, you get there, you take them on thing and you think, okay, the wind is coming from that direction.
Speaker 4: 00:45:50 It should be clean to lounge there. Let's go. And with the time and the experience, I realized that most of the time it works. And even when you think you will, he would not work. You know? Um, having said that, of course it's, it's important to analyze the weather and to analyze the conditions to analyze the place, uh, to try to talk to local pilots and stuff. But really like if you have a few, a little bit of skills, you, you should be able to improvise. And we've been doing that still where when we were in Africa, we never almost never flew on a official Daigo four official slang site. Um, and identic works. And I think it was the same for you when you, when you did your, your big crossing is just, you have to improvise and you check the maps. You check Google, there are a few climbing mountain and you take off and you go in.
Speaker 4: 00:46:38 And this is really how I like to practice paragliding. For me, it's this feeling of having 10 kilo on your backpack, on your back, on your back and climb a mountain and just feel free to take off or nuts to, uh, choose your place. And I just love this feeling of saying a place for the first time is the best feeling you can get. You know? And I would say to this guy, if, of course Greenland, they know that the place can be pretty windy, um, which is in a way not so good but also good because if you go the direction of the wind and if she can really, um, analyze where it comes from, her strong and stuff, then you can think, okay, this phase will work, this won't work, this isn't the Louis side. And then the end is a very simple game, you know, and it's just taking us in, in the wind and it's, it looks complicated because we are not used to it. But as soon as you start improvising and going around me later and taking off from hills and little nonsense, and then slowly, slowly you start pushing, you realize that actually the is is made for that.
Speaker 1: 00:47:42 It's been, and it's, it's confidence isn't it? You know, when you see, when you see videos of, of, you know, Kriegel launching and 40 mile an hour winds on steep slopes, you can see that. He knows he's got that move. And, and that's just from hours and hours and hours of spending time on the ground. You know, I heard stories of him practicing and [inaudible] 60 kilometer an hour winds on snow where he knew that it just to see how much wind he can handle. And, you know, not many people are willing to go do that. And uh, you know, you see it with him. I had just watching some, uh, some highlight videos of the excerpts this year yesterday. And you know, he went and top landed in a spot with the, that was kind of an old, it was very steep and it was a, it was a clear cut, you know, and there's all these big stumps and he just, you could see that he did it without thinking about it.
Speaker 1: 00:48:28 He just did. It was like, yeah, I know I have that move. And you know, that fly on a wall move where you like pointed at the hill and land and hit me. He did it just so smoothly. Um, you know, I tried that a little bit on the, on the candidate trip and just completely botched on. I mean, if you screw that up and break your back, it's, it's a really hard move to do. And, and he just does it without, you know, it's just, it's just one of the, one of the things in his toolkit, you know,
Speaker 4: 00:48:53 it's old practice, you know, it's all righteous and it's a at the end it's, um, I want to say, you know, the same as though you have to go step by step and uh, slowly, slowly and you start with a local flying side that people have talked to you about and that there is a possible dig off and then you go there, you take a few, do your thing, you know, snow is really cool is that the day you arrive, for example, any mail ar and you, you look at the mountain from far down in the valley and think, okay, I think it's possible to take over there. And you do and you play a hundred k, it's magical. I mean, it's a, it's the most eight. And you know, you know that feeling and it's uh, you know, and I think people should, um, try to practice that more.
Speaker 4: 00:49:29 And also the, it's the paralyzing schools and stuff, you know, they should bring people out. You know, because I compared to skiing, you know, you can either ski on the test and on the ski resort where you can ski, um, you know, of track and, and, and go into powder. And it's a totally different game of course. But at the end it's the same sport, you know, it's just, you just need skills, you know, and, and it's, you don't need much as, as long as you take your time and you really analyze it, then you sit on the mountain. And if the wind is too strong, it's too strong. That's it. You know, if there's, if it's the wrong direction, it's the wrong direction, but [inaudible] but it's not that complicated. And I think places like, for example, the peonies or the obs, it's really the perfect place because you, you have to take off all around the Arabs, you know, everywhere, everywhere. I mean, on every month thing, we could always find a place to take off and you don't always need really good skills.
Speaker 1: 00:50:25 Yeah, yeah, yeah. If when you look back, uh, when you look back at your career and certainly your career in flying, if there been any kind of Aha moments, have there been any times, uh, either through accidents or victories or hard times or, uh, any of the, in, during the search projects where you've had any kind of Aha moments about what you're doing? And by Aha moment, I mean, uh, like where you've really sorted something out or figured something out or you know, you've just advanced to a completely new level. [inaudible]
Speaker 4: 00:50:57 yeah, I, I think, you know, well, um, in Pakistan for example, one day I, I didn't, I was flying without my oxygen and I went to high without oxygen and I almost lost consciousness. Um, and, and I couldn't see anymore, uh, that I wasn't very close goal. And I learned a lot from that. Um, I mean, accident and big flight and very tricky situation. I found myself I think too many times, um, that every day. And you think, okay, that was another close call. Um, you don't know if it was a close call or if it's you seeing that as a dangerous, I don't know really. But, but many times they again have, I think reached my limit. Um, and, but, but with the time I'm more, more, um, I'm getting wiser, you know. And uh, for example, when we were in New Zealand, we cross New Zealand, we felt the, and where we realize it was too dangerous.
Speaker 4: 00:51:52 We were pushing too much. We were really on speed, borrowed the time. Flying is very strong winds. Um, we almost crashed one time. We actually crashed in threes and, um, it was just getting too dangerous. And so elsewhere we said, okay, now we have to just, you know, go slow and take our time and all the only flight in good days and the second half of the trip to actually have the time of the first half of the trip. You know what I mean? We went, we went much faster. I've, I've learned so many things about, about this, you know, and, but I think the difficult dames is always when you, when you have a big project, like when I crossed the Pitney's alone, um, [inaudible] I had really bad weather and I felt the care, I'm not going to do it. They don't have time anymore and you start to kind of being depressed and stuff.
Speaker 4: 00:52:38 But that's, it's not the worst. I think for me the hardest part, it's sometimes to deal with, um, you know, when you organize, for example, a crossing of Africa or selling boat for three months in the Pacific islands, um, we're talking about big amount of money, you know, and a lot of stress and big teams. And we have two camera man. We have one photographer, one son, some master, some designer, um, you know, it's many bay. Uh, and it's all those people that rely on you and uh, and you have men, you know, big sponsors, they are waiting for results and stuff. So we had some, some stress in stressful moments where we thought, okay, we're not going to be able to deliver because the weather is not good and this and that. And, uh, and it comes to a totally different sport. You know, it's a managing, trying to manage a team, you know, and, and, and, yeah. And so, so that's, I've learned so much, you know, on the way. Um, but I think the, the most also the difficult parts of course, where do the big accidents, you know, in the friends we've lost on the way.
Speaker 1: 00:53:43 Yeah, I read it. I read in your bio you lost a good friend. Do you want to talk about that?
Speaker 4: 00:53:48 Yeah, I mean, I mean, I was, you know, you, we all know [inaudible] it was not, it was not a, we need a good friend, but he was someone that really, um, I really admired. And, uh, we were actually talking to about organizing a project in Pakistan together and the plan was to fly, you know, use a paraglider to land on Virgin Mountain tops in a, in do and speed ride down those peaks. You know, um, that was, that was a very cool man. And we were talking about it and stuff and then the accident happened and uh, that was really hard for me to see that. Yeah. And such a cool guy, you know? Yeah. But then, um, I have also a, another story of a friend I met in Nepal and we flew together for one month in learn and grow together. And he made a stupid mistake.
Speaker 4: 00:54:39 He decided to jump from his paraglider above the water. Um, he wanted to celebrate this, I think one month there and nibble or something like that. And he jump and he was, he was hired. Any thought, you know, when you're above water, you never really, you never really know. And, uh, he did this, this thing, you know, an a in, yeah, he died. And so it's like we've, we've seen too many accident last year when I was flying in, in, uh, Columbia, I was flying with for SEO and we feel with the local, uh, I think it was a Swiss pilot. And, uh, we, two days later they call us and they say, Oh, this guy you were playing with, well, he crashed yesterday, is that, you know, and they said, it's always too much. You know, it's always too hard to take. And then in some of the best, you know, it might just Clinton or, uh, Alica the, the cousin of what ICO.
Speaker 4: 00:55:29 And, uh, the Brunner of role in Fenix goes gay, were really good, you know, some of the best in their game and they really knew what they were doing. And still they're not, they're not here anymore, you know, so, uh, it's, um, I think this is the, the hardest part. And, uh, and, and I think sadly, we will still, there are some other people will go, yeah, yeah, of course. Oh. Um, I really hope that, uh, and, and we have to give a good example to the people who are following and, and, you know, by doing things with, uh, um, you know, trying to be smart in the way we practice, probably lighting and not Chang and bad example, you know? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: 00:56:09 On that, on that theme, Tom, if you could, if you could go back now and tell your 15 year old self a, if you could give your 15 year old self some advice, what would it be?
Speaker 4: 00:56:21 That's interesting. You know, I think it's, um, the more you fly, the safer you are, you know, so we, I would say fly more. I would, I would, I would've, I would, I would tell him to go more into acrobatics because I know that for many of the pilots out there, uh, the old thing that acro is dangerous and, uh, or many people think that acrobatic is dangerous. But see, if you look at the accidents and competitions, you know, it's, it's clear that it's cross country is more dangerous than acro. Sure. It's a and so far and births, but, but acro you know, when you see when you see Raul or Felix or Oracea or Delta cats, when those guys fly cross country, you know, the first, the first cross country flight that I did with Roseo, he hadn't been played for 10 years cross country.
Speaker 4: 00:57:11 And if you 200 kilometers in Pakistan, they know how to handle their glider. And on the radio you were saying maybe St Man, I'm not used to stay so high, you know, nominee, they have altitude as Bernie down you all right. And then, and it was um, and, and because they can control, you know, and uh, if she can control most of what happened, um, it's already, you know, you can use your, your head for something else, you know, to concentrate on, on the next term mill on the next, uh, transition on there. You don't have to be fighting these, your ladder all the time and you [inaudible] you're much safer. Right. I've seen accidents that it could have been sold in the gate, could end the deep food stolen, for example. Yeah, sure, sure. Um, or a twist or, and sometimes you see accidents and when you look at it, you think, man, come on just when, um, Siv course and these guy would've been safe.
Speaker 4: 00:58:06 Yeah. Yeah. So I think that that's what I would say. And um, and yeah, and Don Rash, you know, I think what happens as a professional violence is that people think, uh, when you go on a big traverse, like you think, okay, people are looking at us, we have to go fast and this and that. And people tend to push a lot when actually the more or the less it makes no difference. Yeah, absolutely. And I think people should accept that. Um, it's a dangerous, you know, sometimes it can be dangerous and just respect that and take time and be safer is not, um, it's not a problem. I mean, it's, yeah. I don't know. I, it took me a long time to understand.
Speaker 1: 00:58:48 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's interesting and I'm really encouraged that you say acro. That was literally the first thing I thought of the night I got into Monaco, as I said, you know, I, I already knew I wanted to do the [inaudible] again. I'm, I'm dying to, to do it again already. But, but, uh, that was the first thing. I, I've always been really interested in acro but we don't have very good places to train here in [inaudible], but I've made that too much of an excuse. I have a very good friend down in Salt Lake who's, you know, now tumbling and he's become very proficient and he's getting ready to go. And so he and I are going to train all winter and, and I, I, but I thought that that was my first takeaway was that, you know, for me to do this safely, it's, it's like when people, people should not participate in cross country if they don't have Siv current simv under their belt.
Speaker 1: 00:59:33 I, I get angry about that. You know, like, it's just, you just, you're really, that's really not something you should do. It's just too dangerous, you know? And if you have Siv, you have the confidence in, like you say, you, you know, you can get out of bad situations very fast. I had to full stall my glider three times coming out of the, uh, the Matterhorn, uh, and I was quite low, you know, I didn't really have the time to do it, but, but, uh, you know, I, I had to reset and, uh, and, and I, I think that, and this isn't a pat on the back, it's just, you know, [inaudible] good to do that. You have to be willing. You got to have those tools, you know, and I think
Speaker 4: 01:00:07 experience makes the whole difference. Of course, of course. Yeah. Maybe can make a yeah. And it's a broken leg or nothing. Yeah. Crash or are you safe in it? And also it makes you fly much better because you feel safer and you understand that a paragliding can actually handle quite a lot. You know, when you get really terrible into, you know, what, what it can be done, what cannot be done. And I think that this is the basic, and in also I would say, um, if, if I was very like 15 years old or if I was talking to 50 years old pilots, it said, don't rush too fast on the gliders because people would say, yeah, but I needed the glider or need prototype or I need this, or I need that when actually you see, most of the pilots will fly out there.
Speaker 4: 01:00:52 Um, they don't do many days and didn't use the full potential of the ladder. You know, and I see, I have a really good example about that. When I, we went to Brazil, we've, we've asked you, um, and we've, uh, the owner of gradients and at the time he was, he was coming up the big ladder, the Nevada was coming up and, uh, Andre said, okay, let's take Nevada and feign Brazil. And we were like, what? Uh, we're not flying Beagle. We need better gliders, this and that. And so finally he agreed and said, okay, take the seat ladder. The Diaz, Penn is a, it's flies better [inaudible] faster, this and that. And then we flew every day. We've unraised in everyday. He flew longer than us. If in the bigger distance we've is Nevada, it's very like after, after all, you know, we thought, okay, we felt a little bit ridiculous. Yeah. Well he is an amazing by that. It was really good. But um, but still it was interesting to see and, and I think at the end it's not only about the latter, of course the glider makes a big difference, but I think people aren't taking risks by thing later is that they don't really control, you know?
Speaker 1: 01:01:53 That's great. Well that, this is a perfect segue because one of the other questions was how do you choose your glider? You know, the, the, one of the questions that came through was that a guy named Tom [inaudible] and a good friend of mine from, from Canada, um, you know, he really wanted me to talk about my choice for flying the ice speak seven. And you know, I planned on flying the peak three and the x ops and changed very last minute and went to the, you know, our standard weight. It wasn't a lightweight glider, but he wanted me to ask you that, that know most of the people in the x ops choose a, you know, to downgrade at, not by down downgrades, not the right word, but yeah, just choose to fly a safer glider, uh, for the [inaudible]. And that was the advice that was given to me.
Speaker 1: 01:02:31 Um, I just felt like my, my choice was, um, was, was really due to the fact that the, the peak three is a terrifically, uh, manageable wing, uh, but it's, it doesn't do very well to wind. And I knew that we'd be flying, it looked like we were going to be flying quite a bit of land, which we did. And, and you know, and I wanted that bar performance. And then just personally for me, I really, really enjoy the feeling of a two liner. I don't feel like, and I've written about this and blogs, but I don't feel like I'm upping my risk if you have the hours, you know? And that's the big difference. If you have the hours and you feel confident, then I feel like these gliders are safe. But you know, as we saw in the, in the, in the Sierras a couple of weeks ago, um, you know, I, I see the Enzo to these, these CCC gliders and I was flying ISP gate, which isn't really any different.
Speaker 1: 01:03:22 Um, you know, they, they are incredibly hard to recover. They are [inaudible], they just flatly are incredibly dangerous gliders. Um, and you have to be flying incredibly well and confidently. And even then, they're still pretty dangerous gliders. But talk to me about glider choice and you know, as I had an interesting thing, you know, in Canada I flew the peak three and, and will was on the Carerra, which is a really sweet bee. I mean that thing goes like a bat out of hell. It's impressive. Um, but you know, that that made me think a lot about it because the only time I could really shake him and we were never trying to shake one another. We were trying to stay together, but it was when there was wind and we were going to wind. I just had a little bit more performance. But, um, it that combined with, you know, the w when I flew my big flight here, I was also on the peak three.
Speaker 1: 01:04:09 Ah, and people have said, God, well I wonder what you would have done if you had you been on an ice peak. And, and I've always claimed that I don't think I would have gone as far because you know, it was, it was a very turbulent day. I had flown a big day the day before. I'd only had about three hours sleep. And so I was kinda tired. I was Kinda like, you feel like in the x ops where you're just flying on autopilot. Yeah. And I had, I had a wing that was more to handle. I think I would have done worse. So that makes my, my, my decision to fly the, I speak in the x ops. Interesting. Because of course we were really tired, but I, I, for me it was definitely the right choice. Now had I been hurt or something, then of course we'd be saying something differently. But um, anyway, I don't want to get your thoughts on this.
Speaker 4: 01:04:49 I think it's interesting. I think the, there's different things that you have to think about. Like first of all, is that, what is it for? Like is it for a, you know, long distance or is it for adventure or is it for, uh, you know, is it the play? Is the place where are you going to play very windy or not? You know, and I think for me, what I really wanted for this time, for this [inaudible] is a very fast later. I wanted to, because I knew like basically in the outs, you're flying against the window all the time. Um, especially you go from east to west. And so I thought the gate he needed glider then goes fast. And, uh, and we had this discussion with gradient and we talked about it before. So I, when I, when I read your story in you, when I remember you writing about, uh, you have to choose a glider, um, which makes you feel like superman.
Speaker 4: 01:05:41 It made me smile at a time. I thought this is a really cool, uh, point of view, but at the same time it was like, Whoa, okay. It's actually, it's, it's all compromised, you know, for example, in this case, okay, you have more opinion of more glide, but it's probably more difficult to land in, in small places on the road somewhere. It's more difficult to take off because you have to liner muddy brake light and it's very thin lines. This and that. It's heavier, you know, uh, to carry, imagine if you had had 10 days of rain, then you will be, you'll be thinking, oh, I should have take the other one. The, those two extra kilos. It's a lot. It's a big difference.
Speaker 4: 01:06:20 That part was the worst part. So, you know, it's, it's really at the end it's all about compromise. There's not one good, um, you know, there's not one best choice I would say. Um, but in this case, for example, the, the glider I had is, it's fast. It's very easy to control. It's clean. I wanted to have something that is clean, you know, uh, that I can, that, that OK. That can be a little bit aggressive. But, uh, at that, at least I understand why, you know, but where I totally agree with you is I think that speed is safety. Um, so many times that when you're flying, you know, those typical moments where you're flying backwards and you put in speed bar and you're not really sure and you don't have speed. And this is for me the most dangerous situations. Um, I really prefer to have a glider that goes fast at a glider that, you know, even if it does collapse a little bit here and there, um, speed is a major concern for me.
Speaker 4: 01:07:15 So, uh, I would say speed, but also for me, especially in [inaudible], it has to be a latest possible. Uh, but again, we have different approach. I mean, for example, when you did, uh, that crossing the perverse, you did everything by flying. Um, when actually we, we also hike and walk, you know, um, and when you start thinking about the, Kate has to be as late as possible, as late as possible, as late as well. Um, and then when, you know that it's not about being a preferred to try to stay one hour more flying, you know, because I can, because I'm not so tired because I didn't play technical glider, you know, than the opposite way. So I, it's, it's very difficult, but I would say no, I feel so confident with this ladder that I have now. It's the, the act 65 that it's a really good compromise for, for everything.
Speaker 4: 01:08:07 Uh, of course it wouldn't flay as much as the best competition later, I think, uh, because it's, it's, it's a dean later and spent the highest level. Um, but, uh, but it does so well. And when I was flying in democratic circles, he was so amazed by the speed and what, I think that, that's something interesting. I think it's a one. So when you play Acro, you're used to, to, you know, fly terminals with 18 major, uh, lighters. And I would always say, people say, yeah, I'm a little bit above my, above the limit. And, uh, you know, it's a, it's not the best because this and that. And it kind of makes me laugh because at the end, you know, I always say you a terminal is a terminal. Um, when you can go up with your glider, you can go up, we have an acro later.
Speaker 4: 01:08:56 And when you see those, for example, uh, the new Neutrik skin or the ozone a electrolyte, um, I was flying with them in NSC and they, they claim in journals, you know. Um, so yeah, I mean, of course if you, if you're thinking about trying to optimize all the time, you know, of course you'll get better results with your bladder race. You're in the middle range and stuff, but if you are, um, a little bit heavier or in the high hand of the, the weights limits, um, you'll fly faster, you have a smaller turn, uh, the glider will react better and be stronger in sjogrens. So for me, it's, I like to fly my glamorous and, and being heavy on it, but that's, that's personal. But, uh, this is how I like it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: 01:09:41 Tom, like a current theme we've been getting in the podcast is, uh, you know, from guys that had been at the game a long time like you have is they've, they've all talked about times where they've gone through, uh, you know, a period where there were, they're not flying as confidently and they've had to, you know, wind things back. Either going back to a B from a comp glider or a C or, uh, or just finding how to make it fun again. Cause it's really, if it's not fun we sh we really shouldn't be dealing it. It's too dangerous. Um, have you gone, other than you said there was a couple days at the beginning when you came back to the ad Adriatic, uh, expedition with Paul, that you were definitely really not in the zone and then, but you quickly found it. Have you had other times like that and if you have, how have you approached it?
Speaker 4: 01:10:28 Yeah, if I think, you know, um, some, when I started flying in Pakistan, the first year I was, it was falling. Ramon in Ramen was much better. Baylor than Eric donee was in the time. So for me it was kind of hard to follow him, you know, like, uh, because he was, he was better, you knew better, you was a better baler. They had more experience. I was, you know, you have to imagine at 22 or 33 years old guy, uh, that has some experience playing Montaigne's and stuff, but you get to Pakistan and you get to play at 7,000 meter high. And, uh, we've one of the best pilots in the world. So for me it was very impressive. Um, and at the time I was flying a safe a later I was, I was actually always choosing to take a big lighter instead of a c letter and no is taking, you know, I was being more careful. Um, and then I think it's, uh, slowly, slowly I started to trust him, you know, and uh, and feel okay if he does it, they can do too, which, which is not all through [inaudible].
Speaker 4: 01:11:30 And he started to take gum from them. But no, I, I don't, I don't think I've ever really gone backwards really. Like, uh, I've, I've followed a few times, okay, now it's too dangerous or sometimes I need a few days. You know, when you haven't flown for a month, you need a few days to come back into it, uh, in smooth conditions. And, but what I think is that there's, there's days that you're in the zone as you call it, and there is that you're not, and you have to accept that some days you're not. And, uh, and, and one day when I was, I was actually playing into the, the cultural glacier, um, and with Ramon, and he turned back because he felt it was not the day. And then I, I kind of flew away and did my flat and he was kind of a day where I, um, I started to fly by myself, you know, uh, after two years or three years, actually in the road that I went to Pakistan, uh, with ramen or with a Rachio, with those guys, um, that they, I decided to care.
Speaker 4: 01:12:34 That's it. This is my day. I had a good feeling for him for it and Ramen didn't have a good feeling for it. And there I went and it was, you know, you started a little bit later with many good friends around you and stuff and you were not really, but for me, I was young and I was looking up to those guys and that was learning everything. Everything that I learned, I learned from them. Um, but one day I had to fly away, you know, or get out of the nest if any happen. It happened in Pakistan and in the worst possible place.
Speaker 4: 01:13:06 And they flew to, I flew to theK to that, they almost to the k two, I was 10 ks away from K2, um, alone. And they learned it in on a glacier at the end of the day at 4,000, 600 meter high. Uh, and I had to humane, it was crazy. I had to cross the Gondola, which is, which is almost 6,000 meter high. We've made gear and my glider and everything and there for two days, they didn't, they didn't know where I was and I was so cool. I loved it. I thought, you know, for me the best, you know, the best moment of my life, it's as upregulating Baylor to really, um, not take my freedom, you know, but started to fly by myself and do my own thing, you know, and, and, and do it well. But then, but then, uh, we had very, um, you know, in the markets are silent for example, or you or crashed into the sea that love that video.
Speaker 4: 01:14:04 And the video is like, the video is, uh, we, we've been, uh, you know, it was much more than that. But the ocean is, is not a good idea. Yeah. It was crazy moment like this when you realize it was a close call and you and your best friend is out there, you know, and you think, well, um, we are so small and I love that we've probably, letting also is to realize that it's a, it's a very big lesson of humility. You know, I'd say I compare it to sailing and I, you know, much more about that than me. But it's that you feel like, you know nothing when you're in the middle of the ocean or when you're really high on there in the mundanes of Pakistan or even in the arbs or any mountain in the world. You, you can, as soon as you're a little bit out there in a remote area, you feel that you're so small.
Speaker 4: 01:14:52 And that's actually what we are. We are very small and we just have to, we're just playing there. You know, we have to respect the players and then maybe the mundane will, uh, you know, bring us back home. Kind of. It's a, it's a very, you have to be very humble, uh, practicing your sport. I think it's, uh, it's, people tend to look way too much about the kilometers and the altitudes and the whole, you know, you, you land somewhere and people will say, well then in 46 minutes, and this is my longest flight, when at the end of the day, you know, um, numbers or ranking or it doesn't really matter. You know, what matters is to, it's to enjoy the sport the way you want to enjoy it, have a good time and not risk your life, you know, and um, and be a whole pilot at the end.
Speaker 4: 01:15:41 You know, that's the best thing I can say. And, and for us, it's, it's been for quite long. Um, it's been about numbers. Like, you know, I, I was calculating not long ago, a rebel adventure asked me how many kilometers have had done in [inaudible] flying. And I'm almost at 10,000 kilometer. Um, we've, we've all be exalts in the pennies and the news and then in all those mountain ranges. And I never actually count it, but I remember that I w for me it felt important to do 900 k or a thousand kidney or, and now it makes, it feels to me that it makes, it's not important at all. What it's important is to, to enjoy the way to have a great time, to have to share a good moments with your friends. Uh, to come back to the great stories. And also I think we have, it's a small responsibility, but it's really cool.
Speaker 4: 01:16:37 One is to, to kind of, um, uh, how would you say, um, try to push people to get out of their comfort zone. And it's not for everyone, but, uh, but it's so cool when someone sends you a message and say, Hey, you inspired me doing this crossing and I, I'll do it myself. And do you have any advice? And then, then a few weeks later you see them on Facebook, they're doing it. You know, it's so cool. I love it. You know, and I, and I knew, I know that the people are looking, uh, also, you know, two and they
Speaker 1: 01:17:10 say, wow, this, these traveler they need. And it's my dream to do that when they, and then they, they go in to do it and they don't have to do it like we do it or, but uh, but it's so cool that actually at some point someone will get inspired maybe and go out there and, uh, and for some people it's a life changing experience also, you know, to do beadwork crossing or too, so it's, um, I think it's, it's cool and now the technology, it's so amazing. I mean, it can be Instagram or Twitter or Facebook or whatever, what, you know, but it's so easy to be out there and then the same time communicate with the, with the followers and uh, and so it gives you so much a motivation, you know, keep pushing. Yeah, yeah. Doubt in people send you messages and stuff and then you keep pushing.
Speaker 1: 01:17:58 It's a good, I love the, you know, doing that trip of course with will was just such a life moment because when you talk about records and I, you know, if I was a better sound engineer podcast interview or we would just ended it right there, that was the most beautiful five minutes I've ever heard. Thank you. But, but it was a, you know, hey, I loved will's perspective, really shifted all that for me because when we first started talking about doing it, because it was red bull, of course it had to be a record, you know, it had to be something bigger and longer than anybody had ever done. And so when I proposed it to will, at first it was going to be to start where we did up near a bride or McKinsey and fly all year. We had to get all the way to Jackson or in order for it to be bigger than the Adriatic, you know, it had to be big.
Speaker 1: 01:18:44 And, uh, and, and we'll just right away, you know, the first time I talked to them, I, I had never met, well at that point, of course I knew all about him and he was a legend when and stuff before I even knew what paragliding was. But, and he just said, Gavin, I'm not an interested in that whatsoever. You know, I did the XL Alps, I hated it. I'm not a backpacker. People have already backpack the Rockies, you know, I'm a pilot and I want to fly it. And the only way to do this in, in style is it because we can't really walk at anyway. There's the rivers are too big that the terrain is too gnarly. Um, you know, so we have to, to fly it. And you know, when you look at the distance, it was, it was 700 k it took us over a month.
Speaker 1: 01:19:22 Uh, you know, it's not, this is not a big distance. And, uh, but, you know, we took our time and we, and we, you know, and the weather wasn't good for flying. We sat there and looked at the mountains and walked around and it was just, it was exquisite. And, and I love his line at the end of the, the movie was, you know, he said, you know, what we've just done is, you know, it's, it's incredible and, and where can you, where in the world can you do this? And he leaves it Kinda hanging for a second, then he goes, and the answer is everywhere. You know, the answer is that we have barely touched the surface. And, uh, I, I love that about where we are with this sport, you know, and it's been, it's been really amazing to see, you know, how, where you've pushed it and all the different places you've gone. And
Speaker 4: 01:20:08 you know, and I think it is really inspiring and it's really inspiring too. Um, for people that are just getting into the sport and people that are in the sport to realize that we have barely touched the surface. That's pretty exciting. It's a world of possibilities. I, you know, I remember when we crossed New Zealand, we found is when we arrive at the end, we were at the very last mundane and we could've flown down to Nelson and then we look at each other and thought, let's, let's make it last a little bit longer, you know? And so we landed on top of that month and slept there and bad luck for as the next day was shitty and we had to walk all the way through. But it was, it was, you know, for the all distance. We had been thinking about that moment when we would get to Nelson.
Speaker 4: 01:20:48 And when we got there, we thought, we just want to go back to the mountains, you know? So spending more time is enjoying more actually. And, um, and, and it's not about the distance or the timing or it's about what you learn on the way and, and what is cool, I think in adventure and the ward, the ward adventures is, most of the dynamics is a little bit over years, you know, like, but when you do get to some real advantage or some moments and, and you learn so much about yourself and about your friends and um, you know, it's when you're getting very difficult situation with your best friend out there and you have to help each other to make it out. And it's so rich, you know, and it's so intense then when you come back home and you are, um, I'm here in Belgium and then net.
Speaker 4: 01:21:32 Oh, okay. It's normal to have a hot water and a shower. It's normal to open the food and have food ever. You know, when you, Gary, appreciate it, doesn't it nice. You appreciate it's so much and it takes, it takes only two to three days to not appreciate in any more, you know what I mean? So it's, it's, it's things we take for granted the more you want to. That's the problem with what we do. That's the problem that it, but what you said earlier is that you can do everywhere. It's true. Like in my dream now is to make, one of the search projects that I really want to make is search search in Europe and search in the states because those places, you know, still it has a huge potential and pushing it in the Dolomites or pushing it in the, in the pennies or pushing it in countries like for example, a Macedonia or a Korean shower or Romania, you know, there's still so much students covered.
Speaker 4: 01:22:25 Um, and are you heard too many times in, in conferences people saying, yeah, but for you it's easy because you have big sponsors and this and that shit. And you know what I say is that you don't need to be an adventure to take your tent and take off from your local site, land on the mountain top, sleep there, have dinner in, fly down in the next morning. And that's how really a small adventure, you know. And I will read, really push people to do things like that. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more all the time. I know you're incredibly busy and I could, I could talk to you all day, man. This is Tim here. I think our listeners are really going to enjoy this one. But why don't we wrap it up because we're almost an hour and a half in. And uh,
Speaker 1: 01:23:06 before we go though, a couple things, if you'd like to give a shout out to your, to your sponsors and also how can people contact you because I know that, um, you know, one of the things that I have really appreciated about you over the years is just your accessibility and your, your, your passion really comes across. And you know, as I was really getting into this, you were real valuable to me in terms of just sharing your stoke. And I know you're, you're totally good with that, with people getting in touch with you. So how can people find you and, and, uh, who would you like to think?
Speaker 4: 01:23:36 Yeah, well, um, uh, I'd like to think, you know, most of all my, my closest friends, you know, it's, it's interesting because my sponsor is, it become a really good friends, you know, um, I'm thinking about Jacob from red bull or macro Volkswagen or Nico at Gamin. You know, those guys, they really, they understood what we were doing, you know, um, one of the very first one and one of my really good friends is also Andrea from, from radiant. Uh, of course the guys that you pair. I mean, I could name all of them, you know, but it's a, I'm not really into the commercial, uh, type of, uh, you know, naming sponsors and stuff. But that's, they will recognize themselves. But what I think is that, uh, you know, what is interesting is that it's, it's not about money anymore. You know, it's a good friends that understood that we were doing something and we still have left to do.
Speaker 4: 01:24:24 And that's really, that's amazing that I see that we didn't reach the full potential yet, you know, in terms of project and things that can be done. So it's, it's very exciting. Um, and to join me. I mean, really, I, I always say that to people, but just don't hesitate, you know? Um, I think it's, you can do it by email on my website. It, I directly answer my emails on Facebook, you know, and, uh, uh, just don't be scared. I mean, I, I remember when I met guys like roll in Lake Ramon and I thought, well, those guys, Dick, but actually there, we're all human and we all vary in, especially in the [inaudible] community, you know, we're all really easy going. I mean, it's a, I know that if I have some advice to ask you, I'll give you a call and you'll spend an hour in a, and I think that's how it has to be. So I'm happy to play my part in, in this situation also. And so, yeah, just don't donate a date. If you guys need to to contact me, I'll be there.
Speaker 1: 01:25:16 Fantastic. And then just finally, Tom, what's the name of your book? And uh, congratulations on just publishing that book and where can people find that?
Speaker 4: 01:25:25 Yeah, well this, this book is actually only in French at the moment, but a, it's a very good Aponte t to learn franchise. Let's say. It's both we made with, uh, with, uh, with a bank here in Belgium. And it's, it's about all the links between the, uh, entrepreneurship and um, and the adventure, you know, being in a time planner is being an adventure and, uh, and so it's, uh, it's all my little stories and what I've learned on the way. Um, and the book is called the [inaudible]. Please write French. We'll look
Speaker 1: 01:25:56 forward to that in, in English maybe. And like you said, it's a good excuse for me to bone up on my French. Tom, thank you very much. I really
Speaker 2: 01:26:04 appreciate it.
Speaker 3: 01:26:05 Thank you. [inaudible]
Speaker 2: 01:26:16 that's an amazing talk. I really enjoyed that one. I could have talked to Tom for hours and hours longer. We might have to do a second episode with him here at some point. Uh, please, uh, leave a comment and the feedback's there and in the feedback space under the, uh, cloud-based mayhem.com where you'll find that podcasts and more, uh, you can also find these on stitcher, iTunes. Love to have you put a rating on there if you enjoyed this. Uh, as always a, all we ask for is a bucket show, uh, following the footsteps at Dan Carlin's hardcore history, a podcast that I am completely addicted to. Uh, instead of sponsorship, what we're doing is just asking you to, if you've enjoyed it, if you've got something out of it, uh, give us a buck. People have been super generous. Our listeners have been super generous in the past.
Speaker 2: 01:26:59 Thank you so much for that. I really appreciate it. Many people have asked where you do, do that donation. Uh, if you're listening to us on iTunes or Stitcher, of course you don't have the links, but if you go to my website, cloud-based may.com, you'll find all the past podcasts there. And in each of the podcasts there's a link for a donate button. Really appreciate it. It allows me to buy these guys beers and dinners when I see them. Uh, and uh, you know, covers a lot of my time. I will continue doing it. I love doing it. I love dispensing all this knowledge. Uh, I'm off obviously getting a great education myself. It's been a lot of fun and, uh, I've got some great shows coming up for you. I'm sitting down tonight with Josh Cole and the Josh Bot. That's going to be a great talk, so I'll have that up next week. Um, thank you so much for listening. See you on the next one. Cheers.