Episode 93- Wolfgang (Wolfi) Siess and the Hang Gliding obsession


Wolfi Siess has been chasing it hard for the past 19 years. He watched his Dad fly from the time he began to walk- the flying blood runs thick in this family! As soon as it was legal (and his mom gave him the ok!) Wolfi took to the skies and hasn’t looked back since. He’s big on the comp scene, flies tandems all summer, speed flies, makes films- basically does whatever he can to keep the dream alive. Four years ago Wolfi tumbled low on a perfect day in Elsinore and a delayed fear injury set in that took over three years to come back from. We discuss how to build confidence after an accident or set back and how to build the right space in your mind to find the joy of flying again. We discuss how to build the best foundation early for a lifetime of safe flying, balancing an obsession, flying in a family, overconfidence, the art of chasing it, how to attract more people to the sport, the advantages of Hang Gliding, drones and the future of free-flight and a lot more. Always fun to talk with someone who has so much love and passion for free flight. Enjoy!

Check out some of Wolfi’s videos and awesome content:

Wolfi’s YouTube Channel

Wolfi’s Instagram Channel

Masters, Misfits and Moab“- the Rhythm of Flight project

The tumble in Elsinore


Support the Podcast

A buck an episode, that's all we ask

If you like what you hear, please consider becoming a subscriber to ensure our high-quality content continues. You can also help contribute to a healthier, greener planet through our partnership with Our Forest. See our donation and subscription options here.

Listen to the Podcast

Listen to us on all the most popular podcast platforms:

Show Notes:

  • Wolfi tumbles in California
  • Learning from Dad and chasing it
  • Accidents and recovery
  • Energy retention on Hang Gliders
  • How to attract more pilots to the sport
  • Hours, hours, hours
  • Balancing the obsession
  • Tandems
  • Speed flying and the ground effect
  • The Rhythm of Flight
  • The advice he wishes he would have gotten
  • Learning from others mistakes
  • The Dream Flight
  • Pushing too hard


Mentioned in this episode:

Evan Smith, Zac Majors, Wills Wing, Andy Jackson Flight Park, Jonas Lobitz, Bruce Weaver, Cody Mittanck, Willi Canell, Paul Guschlbauer, Maxime Bellemin, Cross Country Magazine, Berkhard Martens, Denis Pagen, Red Bull X-Alps, Manfred Ruhmer, Christian Ciech, Chrigel Maurer



Social Media


Share this post with your friends!
Connect with the Mayhem!


Episode 93- Wolfgang (Wolfi) Siess and the Hang Gliding obsession

00:00:02 - 00:05:07

. . . Everybody. Welcome to another episode of the cloud base. Mayhem, I it is getting super real for the red bull x Alps. We are just slightly over two weeks away. I can't believe after all the months and months and months preparation that it's all happening. And I'm actually recording this several weeks before this actually dropped. So I haven't actually left for Europe, by the time we get this all been there for a little while doing some training with my team. And hopefully it has warmed up a lot and have got a lot of snow in your at last I checked. It's been cold wet and snowy. And there's a lot of snow not very high. A lot a lot of snow pies. So looks like the race could be. Yeah. Got to think about our foot management big time. Hopefully, the weather will just be epic, and we'll fly over those passes. But of course that never happened. So I expect some real slogging very wet conditions. Hopefully it's not isothermic posting hell but locked up. Yeah. To going to be very. Very interesting. I have been promising for quite some time. Moore hanging shows, I was out in California, as you all know me listening, this lately, March and ran into Woolsey Wolfgang SEIs again there. I saw him doing some ground stuff down in by some ground effect flying about one hundred miles an hour. That was insane. So awesome really may really made me wanna fly hang ladder. So Wolfe's dad flies Englanders. He's been flying since he was fourteen and flying really seriously now for nineteen years. He runs the gamut on flying speed flying down hills and, and comps and next petition stuff and tons of films. And this is just Superfund talk. You're gonna dig this, whether you hang glide or not hope this spark some interest in the younger crew with, with hang gliding, they are incredible aircraft and Wolfgang's, one of the best. So this is he is incredibly passionate about it. He does. Pretty much. All he does your around as fly. So I think you're going to really enjoy this talk as I have been talking about in the last bunch of shows. We have made the transition over to our own subscription service on the website. However, if you are still supporting us through patriot just stay there, if you like it, if you like platform, it works, totally, well, a lot of you that are on patriot though, have been having trouble with we brought that database across you should be all set up with the username and password. Actually with password you just have to get on and put your name and then say, forgot password. If you don't know it created account for you. And then you have access to all the bonus content. Of course, all the bonus content also gets posted on patriots. You've already got it. But on the websites little easier. Fine console in one place rather than kind of blog format as it is in patriots. So if you're having any trouble with that reach out to me, I will be available to do that kind of stuff for about another week again when this drops. But of course, during the race I'm one man show, and that's not gonna happen. The other thing that's going to be tricky for the summer is all Marsh, wag cloud, these mayhem, trucker, hats and t shirts and stuff that's going to be tricky, because I'm again, one man show and I'll be in Europe through August. We over there, all June-July, most of August. And so I won't be able to ship any of that stuff while I'm there, so get your orders in now and get over to you. All right. That sounds like my, my MRs little one coming in. So I'll just switch over here to the podcast, please enjoy this cool talk with very cool. Dude will size. Woolsey man awesome to have you on the show. I appreciate it. We've been trying to coordinate this since I saw you. Well, gosh, since I in via in January, and then we saw each other again in Santa Barbara, which was cool actually got to fly bit together there. And then you've been rallying all over the place, but great to have you on the mayhem, psycho talk to you at pre sheet. I understand you're, you're in your van out there in Innsbruck and getting ready for the ten season. And there's a lot of snow, which makes me super nervous about the race. Hey Kevin, thank you so much for having me on the show. Brianna talking to you add spin free. Well couple of months, lots of traveling lots of flying. And yet, now, I'm, I'm actually interlocking Switzerland and study working tomorrow. Great. Yes, I wanna talk to you about tandems. I wanna talk to you about your history, and your dad. We don't we don't do enough hanging shows man. So I'm really excited to talk to you about this, this passion that we share, in the sky, from different different avenues, of course paired ladder.

00:05:07 - 00:10:07

You're hanging, so that's going to be a lot of fun. But I thought a really good place rest to start not that I like to dwell on the scary stuff. But Evan told me that, you know, when he reached out a few months ago, and he was like, hey, you're gonna be in the same places is Woolsey gotta say, hi try to get him on the show. He gave me some of your videos, you gave me the arch thing that you and Zach did and MOAB which was sick. That was so cool. And then you also showed me the video from Elsinore and God. Dude, that Tombo looked terrifying. So mazing to have all that on video, and that you came out. Okay. But I thought we'd start there just to get everybody listening here. Totally gripped and into this, this show that was scary man what, what happened? Yeah. That was definitely a wild. One of deftly wild one took me, a long time to get over it, and is probably didn't see the video of myself like two years. This like everywhere you go people tell you this video so crazy. And they wanna show it to like, I just don't want to see that anymore. I can just relive that as soon as I said, that's a talk about the place to because of flown Elsinore bed. It's really a better hanging site than a paired lighting site. It's windy. It's on. And I know you guys have been hanging in flying that site for more than forty years, but, I mean, God. That just looked terrifying. Man, it's I I love Ellison over and I'm in California. I love the flight or thing, it's, it's super fun to fly. And, you know, we heard about the call it the Texan where tumbled and I'm not the first one again on his parachute. There. It's I it's really hard to say what happened at day because everybody else talked to said it was very nice flying day and the day before we flew we got actually get the conversions there with the seabreeze comment. And then you can fly all the way to the beach, and we knew to see Brees was coming in, but he was still quite a while away, because when I, I was lying down off. Everything was probably not our to see Bruce really come in. So. In strong thermal and not to get the good conditions but, you know, a little little bit of maybe over the back. Maybe not it's really hard to say would really up there in his that is it tumble on a hang glider? Is that is that as bad as it gets? I mean is that is that just the one thing when, when it happens to you, guys, you just don't really have an option? Editors people flown out of tumbles. Their stories of people flowing out of tumbles. Foamy was not really a tumbles tumble is more like straight over, and I kind of rolled over sideways, which was also kind of odd and weird. I must have just got into like, you know, really strong thermals share in one side and just a downdraft. The data one ended just flipped me over in, like split second do know. But it's a real happen. I was lying into sale already. But man, you reacted really fast was there just was just kind of this. This is my only move in your free much. It's really bad, because I already have to perish deployments before it adds from robotic flying hang-gliders- Gladys blew up on me. When you say blow up like they broke yet actually broke like in a loop, the bottom and just completely blew up. And you know there's the only chance to reserve and in this moment. I, I mean I knew how high was and. Fix it like you can see in the video, try to fix it. But it just like you know, was not having it, and then I fell into sale, and I knew mild suits, the only option was throwing new reserve and getting it out as quick as possible, and it actually like a food out. And I never really felt the opening the way I was spinning it was not really a hard opening. So I actually did not know I was hanging onto parachute until I hit the ground. I mean, from the videos perspective, it looked like you rolled through bam. You're in just looked so fast. I mean you know how it is isn't is like really radical situations. You everything time slows down. You know, sure and for me that whole thing like we didn't find the video, until, like three days later when we went back and searched for the camera and for me to whole thing was like two way longer, I said, I was laying into CEO forever. Because that's when I fell, you sort of glider flip dobra fell into the glider, glider, basically broke on me. And then I slipped out of the back, and I remember seeing like just a sale material around me, and that just took forever until I saw sky again.

00:10:07 - 00:15:00

But in real life, which has happened like in an instant, you know do you guys fly with two reserves so half. Some people do some people down complicates. Normally do. Specially since my second Hirsch, deployment always fly with to reserve is just, you know, little extra extra safety. And also, it helps wait sometimes with hang gliders. If you need Alexa, way, don't need the Carrie, Ladd care next, the payers should. Were you at that time? So this is four years ago is that right? That's pretty much plus minus a week or two for years ago. Yes. Wow. Is just right now? Yeah. So the, the, at that time, were you, quote unquote, professional pilot, you're flying comps. I mean, was that, that kind of how you're making your living then? Yeah. Mixture between phantoms for couple of seasons? And then, you know, probably trying to be professional for like, maybe six years now, which is not that easy Nang lighting, so getting side jobs, and just, you know, working cash in hand when the weather is bad, and helping out buddies in construction, and but basically trying Jay's professionally gliding and the whole trip, the whole thing in an else knows basically to start of a big road trip. BMI, buddy, Ona's, low bits, the rhythm of flood road trip. And that was like the first I. Op first filming stop, we filled heart if in the episode the day before, and my glide was brand new that was my third flight on a brand new twelve thousand dollar glider and destroyed it like to a couple screws, I think we're left Anna base, too. Crushing. So before we started recording. I wanna you wanna get back into the specifics of the accident two, but before we started recording you don't you said that, that, that I think it was like twelve episodes on that, that you guys did. But it took you solid three years to kinda recover from the, the mental side of that accident. Was that how how hard was that to go out? Start just started this project. You mangle your glider was, it was kinda hard film, and all that the next how long it take you to film this project. No. The thing is I, I flew to stay I we actually had Wilson demo days in and each axon, that falling weekend thing, Maxine wasn't a Wednesday and then we start to demo days on Friday or something. And so, I. I flew straight away, flew all weekend, and kind of thought I'm over it like on it happened shake it off. And then we actually went to Florida did some coms, and I did really well into calm and I was literally like, oh, I'm so good. You know, I didn't bother me and people super like no. You know, you just had a big accident, and I'm like, no, I'm all good. And we got to the mountains too soon as we got the Colorado. I everytime fluids, turbulent air just very scared. And the, I think the first time big mountain was in eating goal thing, Golden, Colorado. And I climbed out, I got one bump, which everybody would normally laugh about when you get something like that, like, little bit of turbulent, flew out in the middle of the valley spiral down landed and Bush's over it in that just continued and tire trip like everyone like you know, we flew some big sites like in Canada, and I just couldn't enjoy it. I, I was super and on the doing hall project, and we still had a good time and I- law flying. I mean that's what I love and that's what I do. And I kept trying and kept trying and just took a very long time to being not. Haired tumbles. I think it's three years until I'm was completely over. Looking back, it was there, anything that helped or was it just time where there, did you talk, any, like sport, psychologists, or friends, or other people that had had, you know, similar accidents in what was the was there kind of a. Their piece of that puzzle that you, you were able to figure out or was it more. Just just time I never talked to a psychologist always thought about it because it was really bad. And, you know, I was like leading com tasks and flying a little turbulence and go and land and didn't even realize until I was on the ground. What I just did them like what just happened like, you know, had full on blackouts in the air. But I think I talked a lot of people most people said it needs time in needs time and for me would help the most was I went flying. A never stop flying.

00:15:00 - 00:20:07

Even if I knew it was a rowdy day. I went flying sometimes flew for ten minutes. And at times I got an hour out of it, and then got scared and just kept going at it. But I think would help the most was calm flying and flying without a people and going like it is turbulent. I getting, you know, bounce around the Abry, well, but there's thirty people next to me also get bounce around. Nobody. Tumbles. So I'm fine. You know, was it? Do you think part of the, the nervousness, or the fear that kind of sank in after that, you know, the after the Andy Jackson and after the first comps in Florida were really kinda set in? Do you think part of it was because, you know looking back on it? You didn't really know what happened. I mean it, it seemed like it was just such a you know what was there something? You did was. Was it a lack of knowing what you did wrong? Yeah. I, I really can't tell what I did wrong the whole thing. I mean, it's if you look at it, there's nod, it's always hard, most of our accidents. There's a good amount. It's like he hit a tree pilot airy. You fluence freaking storm. It's pilot aero because he should have not been there. But this was like it was a good day and he was really hard because he was not Servent. Everybody talked to said he was a nice day. And, and I think that's what made it. So I mean, Florida's nice conditions than it was never to relent. So I think that's why Floyd was just so nice to fly. And then when I got into mountains, it's just it's you know, it is months get off and they bounce around sometimes. And, and I think just needed time, I think I got so quick back into flying. And just we were so focused. I mean that project, you know, audiences they take a long time to get organized, and I was just so focused on that project that I just took a long time to sink in would really happen. You one of the things. And I and a lot of we've all seen a ton of accidents in the sports, just the reality and a lot of times, you know, like this twenty twenty hindsight. It's. You know you got that wasn't surprising that that so and so got hurt because they were flying scared. You know. So, you know, when you're not when you're not confident in on your game we always look at it and go man, it's just, you know, but, but that's a hard thing, isn't it? I mean if you're not how do you get confident in back on your game? If you don't fight through it, you know that there's there've been times in my career where I've really noticed. I'm flying scared. And I'm always like God. Does that mean I should not fly for awhile or in the solution for, for, for so many people have talked to is always different? Some people go to like a lower class glider. You know, some people just devoid the meat of the day, but to me, it's kinda like man, you got to kind of get back on the horse and get through it. But then, you know if you are scared you're probably overreacting, your little to Hansie. I don't know what the parallel would be in hang gliding. But you know you're just doing too much. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I think you know if you. I don't know. It's really hard to say I think yeah. You can I get in your own head a lot. You know, it's like. You know, you scare self and phobe was like I was like, really scared really want to fly. But at the same time every time I went flying ready thought about the incident even before when flying. So it's like you know it's really hard to like shut it off and just do something else. You know. And but for me fly with buddies flying with friends flying with a lot of people. That's what just, you know, did it for me and got me back into it, just, you know, seeing how to flying without a people and just. I think in my mind, a lot away from the whole thing. Let's, let's give the audience some background. Here's rewind to the to the ginning understand your dad was a pilot. And that's how you got into it. Yeah. But that's my dad still is Anglada pilot so that so flies. He started flying in seventy eight. And in a meat of it like ride just after the beginning, it's not quite the begin gliders like the beginning of hang gliding. But right after been flying for since then still flies every, every weekend, things get retired month. So he's going to go flying even more and yeah, just grew up around hang-gliding. That's what we did on weekends. We buy that went flying. And we helped him watch set of the gliders, and then watched him and. Yeah, my first tandem when it was ten years old with my dad's a my tenth birthday. That was my mom's mom said, we need to be ten years before we can go and attend him. And then from Dan on just, you know, stick around, hang gliding, and always, you know, a lot of friends, and from Uttar pilots kids.

00:20:07 - 00:25:03

We were hanging out there and when I was fourteen I got given a beginner glider from family friend who didn't need it anymore like an old glider. So I you know, go out on the weekends and set up the glider and I'm run up down the landing area and just practice takeoffs and Australia. Actually, to legal ages sixteen learn how to hang glide fly. And, but when I was fourteen fifteen sir training more on a training hill with a family friend who used to be the national team teach me a lot. And then I went to school and finished everything there in the end of fifteen which actually got to be on the weekend. Wonders mutters stays going to be nineteen years fly. Cool. So you started she got your license when you're sixteen. I well, I started flying when I was fifteen I got my license when I was fifteen because when you have it under supervision of instructors, you can fly with fifteen under. If you parents okay with which I never really flew with instructors as soon as I got my license when flying with my dad and friends. Yeah, but got my license when I was fifteen and then just kept flying and kept chasing. And your mom is a pilot, my mom's not a pilot, she's been around for very long time. That my mom used to organize Alpin open, which used to be a really big well known hang gliding competition in Innsbruck until a couple of years ago. She did a few tenants never flew herself. But she always supported my dad and now we and my brothers also flying since two years now really is he getting really into do. Yeah. E star e my birdies thirty now. And when he started like I want us to start and get lung an easy glider and fly a little bit. And I just got when I got back from the trip he's like he super fired up p Phuong, the Bach, he flies every second time and is just completely into completely turned from not interested to completely obsessed with flying. What is it like in, in your household is your mom, just she just gotten totally comfortable with this, because your dad's been at it so long or she, you know, she consummately little bit worried. I know with my mom she when I when I got into ski racing and I was sick. She just she's gotten really good. She's somehow just kind of ignores it all, she always just kind of goes, oh, that's nice sweetie. When I tell her about some big project that I've done of the, you know, when she sits in the movie theater in watches it, she she, she almost takes my knee off, you know, just kind of she's voided. It on purpose just go. Oh, that's so nice, but she's just kind of ignores it. But it kinda hard to ignore when it's, you know, it's your husband now, I think she got she got the, she, she's worried his mom, and my mom knows everything about hang-gliding push. She's been around. She seeing Xidan seeing things happen over the years. And she, you know, she has very clue about everything like she can tell people like when they fuck up a flying, they come in, and they made a mistake she knows like she's been around for a long time. And then, you know, I'm doing crazy things raising down mountains, and a think by now they kind of got confident, and it just trust me try to smart as I can and make it assays of possible. And but there's still a mom. She's wore definitely worried about it. And I think something she just tries to ignore Nazi. It's is this action. You had no snores that the only one you've attribute others. So. Elson was my third parachute deployments. Okay. The other two are acro. Right. Outta to acro- when I was eighteen I got really into Acura at topless lighter and start looping. And I was actually training for the Bill Ness enough, Accra calm and the blue glider dare. And then, like six months, Glaister blew the same glider up again. And you know, that's always Lee, always also in there. They're kind of mind that I'm not doing that again. Did you get hurt from those or is that on that over water? It's not a big deal. No. I never second one. I got a little hurt. Actually broke my back, but just a little bit which sound for couple of months, just little compression break outta debt. I dislocated my shoulder really bad in Columbia to calm fuse ago just making stupid mistake in goal being tired of the week of flying and yet my biggest incident with my shoulder for sure dislocated my shoulder ripped all my attendance. You just you just come in on one wing or something bounce.

00:25:03 - 00:30:04

No. I came into goal. And I was mad because it was doing really good in Cobb was really good doing good that task and try to push away to win the day and ended up coming in fifteenth. Because I got really low and say came in and do the, you know, little show off, low boss, fly by, and then I flew my drug shoot and just fell into the Grady and just hit the ground really hard straight in and just do. Go ahead. Sorry. Just popped my shoulder out. You were doing these like terrain runs invited that were awesome. Manning, come in and like just get that ground fact for ever. And it was watching you do that down invite a I was like, okay, I get hang gliders now 'cause I've always kind of been like, oh, man. The setup and time and you got to kind of land and a place where somebody can get 'cause it's not so easy to hike with all that stuff. But then I saw that. And I was like, oh, you're flying like a quarter of a mile five feet off the deck at one hundred miles an hour. It looks like it was like that looks fun. That's the different between hang impera gliding, we have that way, because speed range, right? I can fly from thirty thirty five case in our, to think the fossils, ever flew was hunting, sixty five case in our. Duties low passes and stuff from guessing about one hundred thirty onto the ground and the energy retention of these gliders. These days is just absolutely ridiculous. It's still keeps blowing my mind everytime, I did. So we had a talk we did this kind of history of hang gliding show while few months, back with Bruce Weaver out of Kitty Hawk, and bunch of others. And, and one of the thoughts to make hang gliding lot more accessible was that, you know, these gliders that you're flying are not gliders you learn on these really tough. You know, they take a lot of hours and you got to have a lot of experience in they're super fast. You know, they so their, their thoughts was like it. It's it's it's like this beginner thing. And then there's no, there's they're really missing the middle ground of glider. That's fun. That's easy to set up that still super accessible, but not a twelve thousand. Dollar glider. You know that's just carbon all the stuff that goes into the wings that you're flying. Would you agree with that? Like what how do we get more people like you young and passionate and into it because it seems like that's the problem. Right. Is that in my oversimplifying, but seems like that's the problem? With hang gliding, is that this that, you know, it's the age is getting older and older. You know, we were not attracting enough young people to the sport. It's true. It's I I don't know. You know, it is a conversation about how to grow to sport. I have basically on a weekly basis with somebody because that's what I try to do. The thing is I don't think so, I think there's enough steps of gliders to, like work your way up. It's like the wills wings sports three is like an awesome. It's a media glider. We can fly exceed but still be safe have light glider. The thing is, like with the simplifying, always leave your struggle, you need to set up a glider. It seems it seems like a lot. And it always depends where you go. Because if you look at all the old farts Anglada pilot that take to an hour to set up a glider half an hour to set up glider, and it takes two hours to break down, and somebody lands and watches Dag, like I'm not. I don't wanna do that. But the truth is, it's doesn't take that much time. I can I can really you know, I can set up a glider and get ready to fly in ten minutes, if I want to that's the same as paired lighting. It's not much different. I watched that sometimes, you know, this enviros pretty fun to watch. Sometimes we came up and, you know, like I wanna go Elliot today and I'm getting ready. Into somebody getting his get ready next to me. I'm like it was about the same time, you know, it's, it's a little more work, and there's a couple of batons to chef in, but it's not dad much more to set up the glider. But I think it has, like maybe a little bit of a wrong image, a wrong picture, sometimes 'cause we got that massive thing you have to carry around and you car, and I mean, for me, the flying makes footed little extra work to do. You know what concerns me about what's happening with hang gliding is, we've got some legends in this part of the world that, you know, Frank Brown died a couple years ago, these guys that, you know, were backed like with your dad. You know, they started in the early seventies mid seventies wills wing comes around. It gets crazy in a lot of these folks are, you know, they're old and their dying, and I feel like we're losing a lot of knowledge. Do do you do you worry about that in, in the sport? Or is there still there's, you know, Manfred and Christian check, and all these people that I need to get on the show.

00:30:04 - 00:35:00

But I, I kind of feel like we're losing knowledge, you know, almost like that, that sailplane knowledge, that's just so vast, and something that we at our end in the sport flying slow paragliders are, you know, we really tap into learn a lot about. Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely impair, it seems like imperative does a little more people. Give. Out the knowledgeable marketing, you know, there's books and there's all kinds of things about paragliding hang gliding has said, too, but. There's definitely something missing to give that out sometimes and I don't know. I, you know, for me, I, I don't know. It's hard to say. No. Yeah. I mean just. Yeah. I know you've been at nineteen years. You've kind of seen it in from a lot of different directions. But you're still young and not I feel like feel like a lot of these guys and we were just down in the attic days ago. We had a big day cross Nevada with willy and Cody the other two x outs teams. And we, you know, we drove in aways. And then there was a river that kind of blown out the road is road. And so we just walked up, and we got up there, and it kinda had that feel like man, I bet we're the first people to ever fly here, and there were like no way man back in the day, you know, hang gliding was so popular. I bet this place. It's been flown them a road all the way to the top. It was a perfect hanging launch. And we thought that I've met the hangings of, you know, used to fly this all the time. And we just, you know, there's no files, there's no way, we don't have a way to even find out rather than asking, but I feel like I don't know. I feel like we're on the precipice kind of losing this kind of. Book of, of great knowledge. Yeah. I'm pretty sure about that. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of sites who been flown all around the world where nobody knows they've been flown, and in night seems to get new discovered, but they're hanging back into days. They freaking rant renovate everything. Man. They should flew all these places and I mean, there's so many places. Now, if we look in setting California, cutting fly anymore because it's full of houses rides. Yeah. That's, that's a bomber man. And I think with the drone thing coming on might be in real trouble using a lot more. I think so too. Just heard about, they want to do something in Austria. And if they definitely want to talking about making a place where they can fly and tested drones. And they, it's like it's right in the best flying area at home. It's like and you know they got a pretty good hand. I don't think they're going to achieve that. But I hope not because otherwise, we lose some really good flying over the next couple of years. Yeah. Hammas on just announced their they've, they've gotten state, okay for, for drone delivery of packages, I think in Virginia or somewhere back east and I was just thinking, man Amazon lobbies going to be a lot bigger than our lobby. If they want that to pass through congress. They're, they're going to get it. And we're not there's no way, we can compete with, you know, the billions and billions and billions of dollars that these big companies have worry about that. Maybe I shouldn't used inevitable but Bush, I worry about that to think about that to redeem ASEAN article about some drone things like is that their way bigger. We have no chance. And, you know, we all got free flying hard, but he free flying gonna get less and less and less. Unfortunately, as knowledge in wolves when, when I just ran into you out, in, in California, you threw down some hours numbers that blew my mind, you've been flying pretty seriously. It sounds like for nineteen years. I don't know how you flew like how many days straight, and I think you're like sixty or thirty or I can't remember what he said. But you, you racked up a lot of hours down there. You've been pretty much on the road since then that was back in January. Ori-. How do you maintain your passion for for airtime and for hours? And you know how do you not get burned out? Yeah. Via was crazy has spent three months invited. And in the three months, I didn't fly seven days and five days of them, I went to Cali wills being fulfilled as to, to some work and actually two days off flying out at a dad. I flew everyday, and I think I got one hundred fifty to two hundred hours in the three months, I was there. That's incredible, which at this point, I was working I was guiding there was helping Rudy with some hang gliding tours and guiding. That's definitely something motivation gets a little less fly really every day, every day. But for me I've so much fashion flying. I love it, man. Sometimes I'm like, I don't wanna fly today, and I go anywhere, and as soon as the an like opposite. Happy went flying. It's just just my happy place. Susan, aired it's where I'm happy and.

00:35:02 - 00:40:15

If I don't fly too many tandems ten themselves for me when I definitely kind of start losing passionate a little bit because it just becomes work. Yeah. I was going to say, you know, I I've never been ten pilot. I've always avoided that just because I hear that from a lot of ten pilots like, oh man, the number one way to lose your passion for flying to do ten and you're in a part of the world where you can do a lot. You know you guys can lap like crazy there. How have you kind of approached maintaining that balance or is just like the necessary evil to pad the pockets and keep traveling again? It's for me. I decided if years ago when I got into the whole thing I six months, and then six months of my own flying and just a little bit of tenants, and that definitely helped being and interlocken now I fly a lot of tandems, but I still go free flying. I take my days off, and go flying or go flying and between because really recharge my batteries. It gets a little tough if it's Adams with five months straight and and fly all the time. Each don't want to go up the mountain anymore. As soon as I go flag said as soon as go flying again. Everything is good. And I'm happy again. What part of the sport? You really get excited about because it sounds like you've had, you know, background and kind of everything you went to this acro phase. You know obviously cross country comps like when you when you look ahead at this at the next year. What, what gets you most fired up and why. For me right now. Definitely speed flying. I'd law racing down mountains, finding new lines and, and flies fusses, again downs amount Geis's. So I don't I don't understand what this is. What is I didn't know that, that was even thing and hang gliding, is this, a different kind of wing Nana? It's my same angle. It's my same comping anomaly, always speed speed flying being around for a long time news to competition as to be the red bull speed running kit spill, which was a really big thing. I think to add something Aspen for while which was a big thing. It's just basically the same thing to wing suit, as do, just little flatter terrain and little longer rounds. Because we play. You just pointed staying right on the deck. Yeah. Just points they right on back fund. Like, little ski slopes, where he can go really close close to ground than, than like, you know, good, spicy can raise along and just fly. These freaking epic mountainsides early morning and super calm conditions like that's for me. That's where I'm most focused, I can, like go up a mountain. And there's literally nothing else. They're racing down that mountain, and I can just, you know, be full on into stone. So we're going to have all this in the show notes, we'll have the tumble and we'll have your twelve episode series of your trip across the US in them. We'll have some of the speed flying anything else. So those of you listening, go check out the show notes. And in, we'll have have all of will fees videos on this. We'll tell me about the tell me about this trip. I don't wanna skip over this US thing that you did because that's pretty pretty awesome rhythm flight. I mean I always wanted to big road trip about across the US. There's so many awesome flying sites and than with the final touch mo- at those like something I was dreaming about full really longtime the fly on their on their knowledge through an arch, and I actually after it got injured in Columbia with my shoulder, I went to the pre world via and just hang out there and I was driving for from buddies and just hang out there and me and Yona Sousa longtime friend of mine from these. Zealand Yoenis low. It's we used to work in STAN with Arka strata for two seasons together, Santa pilots. We always said, also road trip and you know, it just all just grew into with something bigger. Let's you know, make some cold videos and show all these cool flying's arts around the world and go from from conflict to mountain flying. Every actually did a busy flight in Colorado. How did that how did the hold on? I get regular understand how the Bidi flat tackle bitty flying with hang gliders. We actually we made it breeze, you know, south we we, we had some fell. So we had like some big into gliders, and we just took off in Aspen, and we kind of, like try to find a spot way top lands on a mountain up Google IRS upfront. And which is, you know, would like sleeping bags and pods and everything we need in a harness on and on across the glider. I don't know what we flew. It was not that far before, like thirty case, maybe down the range von Dak, she's super sick flattop mountain, where we landed on, and then which has spent the night there. And then she flew back, the next day, if he ever looked at lines two to do, like a big troop with a hanging, like a like a Mongolia somewhere where there's, there's no trees and, and really grass covered mountains.

00:40:15 - 00:45:00

But, you know, nicer than the Alps little more friendly is that is that something that's on your radar yet. Steffi my Reiter. I got a massive lift the list of ideas of things I wanna do in Anglo, ding. And you know, go ping and exploited whole baby thing. A little more is definitely something I want to do. But things always ate the lineup and I've always about a million into projects in my ad and just see how things go moneywise goes, what I can do, but it's definitely something I wanna do. We've been talking about since years, we should send we actually Senate up location to the XL thing and say, we want to compete in glider and see. They would say yes, for sure. Can you imagine they love that? Oh my God. I mean. Sippy, a sack maters always said, we just we walk up to the guys Bergen replied a first day, and then we just call it good. And we've been in the exile, but it will be in. I mean always league depends on the day if you have like freaking two weeks of epic flying, and you really train hardy maybe can walk letters up a few days. But definitely not what you guys doing. I think that four five times up, Everest with a hang glider would be would be little too much crushing. But, but if you if you could really send it to just have to be different rules like your team could help or something, you know, something I don't. We always happy about it, and never never really went through with it. We had one year. Maybe somebody else's crazy enough off the hearing that and say yet, it's a good idea dozen. I hope will be free awesome to see that would be awesome to see. How do you how do you compare give the listeners because a lot of people listening are spent a lot of time in the Alps and a lot of people listening, spend a lot of time in the states, but not both compare the US to, to where, you know, then that big trip, you did compare the air, the what are the big differences that stand out? It's really hard for me. Like, you know, we, we did some good mountain flying and in Colorado. And in Canada, which was super awesome thing. That's pretty similar to flying here in the Alps. But then there's always the older in a massive terrains of, like big flats, which we don't have here, which is have mountains valleys in more valleys, where don't really wanna land. But I think the big thing here in the Alps is like you always find a town. Right. There's always every towners in every valley, there's a little town, and then there's so many places in the US where you just completely no-man's-land than there's nothing there this this flight. We did the other day Bazeley cross the big chunk of that for from west to east and actually Cody made it into Utah at the any broke the state record that day. But just, you know, it's the most mountainous state in the US, which people don't realize more than Alaska, and, and, you know, you so you're just range hopping mountain mountain to mountain a menu cross these huge flats, and there's no one. For two hundred miles there was nothing. You know, you'd see a little dirt road, but I didn't see any people awesome cows. You know, just didn't see any trucks. We didn't really get to go like on our trip. We didn't we didn't really have a tribal says out to in a pickup truck, and we kind of always met up, we locals and it was kind of the whole trip with more like flying with locals and going up and flying with, with people. We met along the way or like reached out with them and fron. There was more about like the community of flying and flight barks, which we don't really have here like the way they are into states, especially our to- parks. We don't have that here in Australia. Switzerland's. So but we didn't really go when really big, but I had like a few flights where just look, there was a mountain ranges, like. Yeah, there's nothing there for a long time. In europe. He like, you know, you go over mountain range Anders. Maybe a big glacier, but after something, and you always know, you're gonna find town somewhere. You know, always Paul Paul Shebar came through here on his when he was doing his Bush plane thing from Alaska down to Argentina, and he came through town on really good week, he nailed it. I think he broke his personal best that day. Huge proper son Sun Valley day, and, and he gave a presentation on the x apps, and, and he was you some of this footage he showed was like busting through these coals, and you're like, oh, my God, there's nowhere to land, and he you know, he would say, like you're in the Alps.

00:45:00 - 00:50:01

There's always a place to land watch, then, sir, it would clear up, and there'd be a little village. I learned that the first couple times, I, I started flying in the Alps. I'd be like, oh my God. What's going to be on the other side of this? Oh, there's a village. Yeah, it was always Bill Mance. They always build a village somewhere to mountains and just. Yeah. Totally don't Alie it. I mean, I think I think the wildness here, I got a new perspective of that flying out in Santa Barbara, so along the coast, where you are where there's, there's, like, massive civil eight civilization. You're not that far from Los Angeles. But you punch it over the back one ridge line, and you might be out there for a couple of days like that, that is a deep nece that even here in some valley, we don't have. I mean it's it's way more remote than California. But, you know, you can kind of land most, you know, it's not like deep like that, where it's just miles of chaperone, and no trails, and no roads. There's there's road you're gonna find hunter. You're gonna find somebody with a truck, you know, you might spend the night, but you're going to get a ride and man, that I couldn't believe how close you were to LA. And then how deep you were one move. You go over the back there. Man, you're in tiger country. Big time. Yeah, I flew what's that cycled Ferdinand, even tour in the mountains ohi. Yes. Exactly. Flu. Ohio fears ago, and we flew towards the O ends. And man, there's some there's some big tiger country that's for sure. Yet, efforts intense right there. You just legal God. And then you'd make the next you're out over the Mojave and it's all mellow. But man that first ones, I go, I guess I think that the European pilots would be like a little bit of pucker factor here. Yeah. Definitely it ever some. I mean, we were super high cloud-based day, and we got over that quick, but I still looked into like. Like, yeah you don't wanna land there. That's for sure. Hey, I'm gonna give you some rapid fire questions to kind of, we got a lot saw, we can keep going. But I just want to you don't have to answer these fast. They're just a bunch of different questions that I find kind of fun. I was listening to a podcast recently in these, these came up not for flying totally different thing. But I've changed him for flying. So if you had one piece of advice for someone to succeed, as a pilot, what would it be fly fly? Flied just hours and hours, hours and hours and go fly go flying with find a cop flight and find out of people's you can go fly with talked to pilots and flight five fli- fly smart flied good conditions on don't push together entire life. You don't need to fly know it's the pack up on takeoff and not fly day and just fly fly fly, I think for me it's fly fly fly, there's no there's no real shortcuts as their if. You could do one thing differently. You're not far out of your twenties. But if you could do one thing differently in your twenties. What would it be? Not much, man. I, I did what I wanna do. My entire life was started flying. I probably would've not been as much as dumb ass and, and started accurate away at it and nearly killed myself bed. Okay. Let's extend let's extend that question to bed. This is one. I ask all the time if you could rewind the clock. It sounds like for you, maybe when you were fifteen but if you could rewind the clock to your fifty ourselves. So that first year you were learning what advice do you wish you would've received from you today? Like wolf e hey, now that I'm in my thirties and I've flown for nineteen years do this differently. Definitely like you got all the time the world you got the entire life to fly, you know, definitely pushed couple, I was, I was pretty lucky. When I went fly, when my dad allotted without a family, France. But there was definitely times. I went flying probably shoot of not going flying 'cause I was just soup. Gyn. Ho ongoing flying and I need to fly today know who knows what the weather that's next weekend, and I need to go fly today, but the thing is, you got so many more hours and so many more flying days out of beer it doesn't matter if you break down your glide around take off his there, anybody any real friction between your dad and you with flying there ever been times where he's been just kinda like has to look away. Definitely, you know, when I do my, my speed flying and stuff and going close to the ground, I, I normally set myself a half a meter limits going to grounds, and then I most of the time break that because I'm ground horny. As we decided for years ago, we call it. You know, you always like arches fly a meter of the ground, two meters of the ground. It just looks cool as like.

00:50:01 - 00:55:01

Yeah. But you know, because he's the video but he doesn't see what I I do because I love that. And you know I can have ten cameras on my glider racing down amount. All I think what's in front of me the line, and I've just got a massive smile of phase. And you know, it's just the ground rush ground. Rush reels closer to ground is, you know, more funny. It is. Not. I kept my I keep my limit and breeze. Smart definitely couple of years ago. I was like not doing that. And as you get older, just give yourself a little bit of a limit. But it seems it's even we watched video people go. I e completely stupid, but if you actually the moment and doing it and being right there you got. It's different thing, right? And you just go and do that in conditions. If spunky to conditions out good backup and in flight on only pull away from the hill, and I stopped doing it. But then I don't post video of two days later. Do it raising down to mountain in perfect condition. It looks bad and good. But they're people don't see how much work and effort he put into doing something like that. If you ever gun into got into base jumping and wing suiting. No. I don't I have skied a little bit. And I have ten chums of britches on base jumping gear. But that's it never been in a wing suit or something like that kind of interested in it. Specially living here, very close where it all happens just, you know, a couple of case from the valley, but for me if I will get interested more interested in the in the idea of chomping off cliffs and just tracking away and actually wing suiting because I feel like I wanna go fly I going to do that in anger. Okay. Back to these questions. Ten years from now. What do you think? You'll regret doing too much or too little of. It's hard to say I've. Fly a lot a solo. I didn't know it's really hard to say. I don't think so anything I you know pretty happy right now. And I don't think in two years, a happy, what I did last fifteen twenty years. What is the most important non-flying thing you can do to become a better pilot? I think watching videos on internet, and seeing what other people make mistakes is a good thing to learn kind of so flying, but not really. Still putting it in your head. You still putting in had. And, you know, seeing some, I think seeing some of these accidents it's good to good learning her for four pilots. And you know, if you have that he had his Sita before, which ends of when it happens to you can react, a little faster that fli way higher. I just did a review for Maximes the first of two books performance flying a review of the first one for cross country. And I really enjoyed that I've, you know, Burkhard Martin's books on thermal flying in, you know, there's, there's lots of good books out there. Dennis pagans done a ton of stuff in his secrets champions is still one of my yearly reads, and that's all hang gliding, not hang glider. But I still think it's just so much valuable information there, but I find that especially in winter rainy day or something find tapping into those. Is always a good thing. Just to I find that, you know, like I've had a lot of injuries in my life. Not from paragliding, thankfully, but, you know, from other sports, and, you know, when you when you get hurt it's always like, oh, man Darna in, but then you, you know that separation from whatever it is, you were chasing often makes you better when you come back to it, you know, you haven't had the hours you haven't had the time. But you've had the perspective and you get you can come back to it and often be at least for me be better than you were. Yeah. For me. I don't know it's hard because I've not really had any time off flying. The last five years, I think. Fazli all do, but don't fly to end hymns if it's a rainy day like today, I'm not flying. But I do I. Always some high in the sky. It's all about getting more. How good more time into skied and underground run. Yeah. Totally there's nothing that replaces hours. I get that Email all the time. Hey, man. I, I only have this much time. How, how can I become an awesome compilation of shortcuts gotta get the hours? That's it reading reading these books. And you know, getting that, that basic knowledge is really good. But for me it's, it's all about the hours and experiencing in the sky that will helps me a lot and I just felt that now again, after not flying so many coms and just doing to Adams, while just Mexico just flying a free months.

00:55:01 - 01:00:13

It's like you know, I take off and go him a harness. And I'm there, I'm like into sewn straightaway. That's like, don't need a few minutes to like get settled in or something. You know, it's like. I'm always ride there because I just been flying so much. And I think that's what helps me at least the most I need, I need fly dollars to the fly good, especially in college, I've been surprised with this has been a really big year for me for flying. His course the helps coming up, but it only takes a little while for being away from it and then I'm right back in that. I mean I get back in zone faster visible the hours. But, you know, if I'm away from from for a couple of weeks, the next time, I'm in the air, I'm like uncomfortable, you know, little bit scared and it takes a couple days. It's just there's nothing replaces hours it definitely helps. It's like you know, I learned that when angle pilot and, you know, we were all, you know, longest time had until I was twenty something to normal job. And just, you know, work weekdays when flying on weekends and, and then to quitters off and just go on little trips to Italy something and any go like, week trip and like to date, they Ford, a five also nego like. Man. I'm like full on into stone. You know it's like so easy. And I just talked to my brother, who just did that last year said the same thing is like, you know, it takes me always well to get back into it. But then I go on a trip. And, and it's just everything is just in tune. You know, just know what's happening. You know, we would need to do is like for me. Nothing replaces hours. That's this isn't part of my rapid fire questions here. But just maybe thinking you've done a lot of traveling. It sounds like what are what, what's your favorite place to fly? And what's on your checklist? What's on your God? I can't wait to fly that favorite place to fly. It's definitely still at home in the mountains. I love the mountains. There's nothing more stunning than just, you know, flying three thousand meters was a mountain peaks, and that's where I learned to fly that's where, you know, got most of my flying into beginning, and I mean, there's so many study, places so hard to say I get that question all. What's your favorite place to fly? It's like there's million places. I just. I just had an awesome time Brazil, Mexico. Vise freaking cool flies, like everything is different. Like there's so many good flying's. But if I have to pick one place, definitely say, the Austrian out and so. That's nice. Always good to like home and what about what about what's on your what's on your tick list? My take list. There's, there's a lot of things that my clothes like a lot of things I really wanna fly Pentagon, Neha. I think that will be very stunning place to fly. I really would like to fly in Iceland. To school. There's, there's a pretty good. There's a pretty good club. There is a lot of pilots and Iceland. I had no idea. Yeah. Research a little bit. There's, there's a hang gliding club and club. And there's some good flying there. And it's just just one of these lists just needs to line up one day that I can go and do that. Bots, yet, that's definitely that's I mean, I just recently had probably one of my biggest trims flying came true. Like one of these flights like I always wanted to do, as long as I remember seeing photos in magazines and it just happened actually like month and a half ago. In Brazil, tell the crista flights the famous Krista flight in radio. It's like you know, it's like one of these things like it needs to lineups, especially when we go, we fly into Rio, and then we go somewhere for calm in two days, and it never really works out, inches need the right day, and Johnny Duran ROY Dunkin, and I just like month enough ago, we got there and all the locals where like non today's not at Chris today. Today's not at Chris today and one guy was like egos, should wait. And we like you guys can sink out now and fly to beach in ten minutes. Or you just sit a couple of hours up in weights. The reaches waited and then they just turned on, and it took a while to get there because it's normally like to climb flight, maybe warm climb flight and it took us a while. We will soaring go to Avella's for, like, forty five minutes in the same, I'll to toot before to win turn back on and the ad. Just two climbs. Which is glided Tutu Cristo. And he was super spectacular like cloud base was around the base of the Christou. So it he came in and out of the cloud Conde constantly, and we gliding over in Janis done. Dad flight five six times? So you kind of like showed us away and Rory night, kind of followed him. And that's the first time a remember in hang gliding that I was like, when I knew a headed and I wasn't glide, and I saw Cristo, and I was like I'm getting right right at his height non-flying ride pasta started like shaking, and like, you know, getting tears him is a little bit because.

01:00:13 - 01:05:08

It's like that was such a big dream fly to wanted to cool. That's pretty neat that, you know, that flight that doesn't really require, you know, huge distance or, you know, huge commitment, or something. But it so special really with the right conditions, I probably pretty simple flight for you guys. But that's cool. Yeah, it was it was a little tricky today. But normally it's pretty simple for the local spot. It's one of these flies, just everything needs just lined up and you can go to a place with ten years, navigated, and then one day, just on a right place at the right time. And you got these really special special. It's. Brazil's got so much good flying. I was watching the super final from afar this year in man, that by Shuguang do areas, just crazy looking like land of the lost only flown the cer- towel. Yeah. We were like what not far away? We were invalid iris at the same time the super final. We didn't really the best wet, I think a little more than we did. But yeah it's pretty awesome. I love Brazil lesson. Really flying for Brasilia where we go. There's calm every year is absolutely insane. Cool flying and up into the northeast yet. But the thing that's it's one of my list plans for this fall. It's how things workouts, hopefully the whole crew flying to Sima when I was in there, the Austrian or German, go broke the record there. I was there. But man that's patients game. Holy cow. I mean they sit there for a month and get like three flights. It's brutal to differ. It's type two fun for sure. It's a different kind of fly. Right. Each wait for that day. And he's just twelve day. Yeah. I mean you go out there five thirty and you know, eighty percent of the time he just go back to the hotel said there, all day, you know, it's a tough go. But but it's a good spot for a long runway can go a long ways okay, back to these questions. What negative experience in your life? One that you would not want to repeat has had the most profoundly positive effect on who you are bro, my accidents, all three of my accidents, definitely changed a lot, especially to one in Elsinore just change. A lot of my perspective, anything's talk about that. It's just, you know, just. Was definitely the closest I came of you. You know, dying in angler and. I definitely different. I still like now over to. And I feel like I'm over and I come fly in, in the in strong lift again, and strong thermals and don't be scared anymore, but I still got it in my mind. It's like you know, you look down and go like, oh, per shirt here doesn't that. Well, you know, it's like, maybe I shouldn't fly in there just. You know, look a little 'flylal smarter definitely fly fly on smarter. Gave you the perspective that he thought you had. But you you needed man, we flying. And we fly and we con- CD a ride. We flying his big thing. We con- see. And I always say if we would have goggles and we could see wind in the thermals we would maybe fly five percent of the time, we really fly. Be terrifying. I don't want I don't want those goggles to be invented here. I like live into into black when it comes to that. Yeah. Any number of places in the race. That's about to come up if I if I had those goggles on I just be on the ground the whole time, and we're flying in the league of the Alps, the whole way, finding the wind, pretty much the whole way. I don't wanna see that. I just wanna in and know that I'm gonna get a lease side climbed get out. You know, you fly over the years, it's just learning fly smarter, and get a little less gung-ho and push into super valleys, where he may not get up. I just but then there's conflict where you still do that. Because the calm mode, and you don't even think about it. I just I just had a free, not a sketchy landing, but a little tiny landing spot in, in Florida calm. Because I I was about to land out in case short of goal and Icees him birds. And all I'm looking as these birds, I'm not even looking at the ground the kind of sought it was a landing below me, but am flying the next tree line because I all I look at these birds, I'm gonna get up there. And as soon as it gets Burs single like I'm way, too low to get up here where do I land now. And you know, that's com flying wages like do stupid things, you know, and, but I definitely did like Bruce lot over the years since just.

01:05:08 - 01:10:05

Trying not to push it so much anymore. But then you go to calm and you still do yen those kind of situations are so and they're tough. I mean because if you don't do that, you're not gonna win, you know. You know. And then if you do it in screw up, or get hurt, then, you're like, oh, what am I doing what an idiot? You know it's just a fine line. We're walking. We walk it all the time thing fly, it fly all the time, the thing is if we since we fly a lot, and, you know, it's the same paragliding hang gliding, it's like I'm pretty confident Lennon breeze, small fields. So it's a K from me to push in there. There was two we have the world championships series in Italy, and lasted the pre well it was a lot of people complaining about how diskette she plays. There's not that many landings and there's some places some terms is not so good. But then you talk to people like Manfred Medford goes like fly into valley. I know there's a landing in there. It's very small, but I can land there. That's why flying there if I wouldn't be confident to fly in there, wouldn't fly under but then there's people, which is all sees frigging term point on the air on that GPS. And if lying there and then in there like who do know is like. Planning ahead and just like knowing your skills off ride. Yeah. We're gonna get Manford on the show here shortly, I'm bringing my Garrity Europe. But is Manfred, your Kriegel? I'd say so. Yeah. Because he in secrets of champions. And I know that was that was what late nineties early two thousand. I mean he was like unbeatable. Yeah. He's and he's still he's, he's a bird man. You know, he's just the different level of flying. Soli is only Dustin is still only he just flies flags bunch of SWIFT's and stuff to still, he's the bird, man for sure. So what, what do you guys, you know, when you're sitting around with your croon Zach, and Johnny and the guys you're all traveling with and stuff? Because we, we have the same conversation about Kriegel in what is it? What, what are the things that you guys go, okay? We gotta get better at this, and that and this and that like Manford is or, or is it just like he's just a bird? Bird. Yeah. It's basically the same with Manfred it. I mean, I know Manfred since I'm my tires long as I remember no for because he's been around too coms from my parents and stuff. And then when I started flying when I started competing when it was eighteen, you know hang out a bunch with him. And we did a couple quite a few cops together in the osc him something. And it's like how did you do at an ease like, oh. Just pushed out a little more like we, we had a combo us. I think that was in length erode. We did a calm and him and I were in front. And we coming back last climbed get the last term goal and we come back to take off and weird to same hide. And there's like nothing there. And I'm just like circling in Ciro, and he just climbs out and you go like what the fuck happened. There said, then you ask him after he goes, like, just pushed out a little more. It was not that hard. And he really like seemed to be like, you know, man for always like it doesn't really tell you much either. You know, he'd like it gives you something for mation, but he doesn't really give you what you wanna learn like. No. Of actually been warned that by number of you. That be great dam on the show. But good luck again. Shin curious. Like I hope he get something out of him. Like every time I try most of us tried like you get a little bit, would you don't really get. Where do you one, one like knowledge suits handed over? And he just my, my guess is that he's not being protective of the knowledge he just doesn't understand how to say it. I think there's a lot of I think there's a lot of people like that. I mean it's probably like trying to become a better surfer from Kelly. You know. I mean he just does what he does. He's Kelly Slater trains. Hardy practice harder than anybody. And but handing that off as a different thing. You know, it's like the he's, he's using his toes in his heel slightly different and he's, you know, just the way to the board and the transitions. I mean all these things that are probably just a little bit beyond most people's reach. It's not really something that can be explained. Now, I'm pretty sure British it onto same with Manfred and. Yeah. You just, you know, he's been flying for so long and so naturally. He's birdman. I think that's that puts it to the point. Why are we gonna see? He has a son who thinks just learned how to fly the last few years. And let's see we all we all were because we all like, well, there's something else that gonna kick acid a few years.

01:10:06 - 01:15:02

The end in the last ex house, we were sitting in the rain before the start I was sitting right next to Kriegel, and he started started showing videos of his kids, who I think were six nine at the time both of them flying. And I thought, oh God. There's no hope for us. Can you imagine his kid learning at that age is just like, yeah, I learned how to Pergola when I was thirty six I think I'm a little behind the eight ball. I think so nothing's going to be the same with Thomas Manfred. I hope not. I mean, I hope and I hope not I hope for him. But I hope not for us that we get. Command for still still still like shows up inches cakes ass. Right. That's awesome. How old is he? I have no idea. I don't know. But he's gonna come thing is coming to the world's to Italy very soon cool. It'd be it'd be fun to watch them. Karash ever empty, everybody's worried already. I'm sure sure no, that's just like when Kriegel shows up there as worried wolf. Thanks so much. I really appreciate this. Appreciate you. Give me the time. And, and we've been we've been trying to do this for quite a long time. And just thanks for sticking with it. But I hope to see you here soon, the racist coming right through your backyard, so hope to see out there and good luck with your tandem season. We didn't get to talk about Dan, too much, but we'll save that for another one. But on. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much. Cabinet was fun talking to you. And yes, he appre- soon, let's hope this snow melts little more. So you guys gets donate to walk around snow's a much. It sounds wet and cold. Yeah. Hope so that I mean it's, it's, it's beginning of may. And which had snow on takeoff, two days ago and think there's more snow coming in a few days. Scary. I'm sitting in my van with the heater on in in may. It's not really. Yeah. We're a month way we need. We need to change for it to be drier. I gotta rethink my of already started packing. I've got my twelve pairs of shoes out there. But none of them very good in the wet, so I'm going to have to rethink that. Yeah. I think you do. Well, good talking to and. Yeah, come by here. And if you have some time before the training, I'm an interlocking, let's go, go fly or few guys fly around, you guys have a term point here, right? Yeah. Yeah. In titlist. So yeah, it's going to be a really cool part of the course. And of course it's, it's Kriegel backyard. So, I'd love some local knowledge. That'd be terrific. I'll come say Highland when we get there, we definitely going to try to fly in flew two years ago, I flew with you guys a little bit of Robin. When you guys came over to back, I actually there and, and flew with a couple of guys a fluent with Paul into style. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Watching us fly and maybe get a couple of turns, and with you guys that'd be that'd be terrific man, love it. Well, cool, man, we'll thanks so much appreciate it. And yes, you hear a few weeks man, thank you so much. Jazz. If you find the cloud base may have valuable, you can support it in a lot of different ways. You can give us a rating on itunes or Stitcher, wherever you get your podcast, that goes a long ways spread the word you can blog about it on your own website or shared on social media. You can talk about it on the way to launch with your pilot, friends. I know a lot of interesting conversations have happened that way. And of course you can support us financially. This show does take a lot of time lot of editing lot of storage, and music and all kinds of behind the scenes cost. So if you can support us financially all ask for a buck show, and you can do that through a one time donation through pay pal, or you can set up a subscription service that charges you for each show that comes out we put a new show out every two weeks. So, for example, if you did a buck show and every two weeks, it'd be about twenty five dollars a year so way cheaper than a magazine subscription. And it makes all this possible do not wanna fund this show advertising sponsors. We get asked about that. Pretty frequently. But for a whole bunch of different reasons, which I've said many times on the show. I don't wanna do that. I don't like having that stuff at the front of the show an awesome want you to know that these are often at conversations with real people, and these are just our opinions, but our opinions or not being skewed by sponsors advertising dollars pretty toxic business model. So I hope you dig that you can support us if you go to cloud base, may dot com, you can find the places to support you can do it through patriot dot com for slash cloud-based mayhem. If you wanna recurring subscription, you can also do that directly through the website, tried to make it really easy, and that will give you access to all the bonus material video cast, we do and extra little nuggets that we find in conversations that don't make it into the main show.

01:15:02 - 01:15:45

But we feel like you should hear you don't put any of that behind a paywall if you can't afford to support us, then just let me know all set you up with an account. Of course, that'll be lifetime. And hopefully you're being imposition someday to be able to support us. But you'll find all that on the website. All of you who have supported us or even joined our newsletter or bought cloud-based mayhem merchandise t shirts, hats or anything you should be all set up. You should have an account you should be able to access all that bonus material now. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate your support. We'll see on the next show. Thank you. .