Episode 88- Rob Sporrer and building community, risk awareness and focus on fundamentals

Rob Sporrer and Breaking Bad’s Bryan Cranston

“Even the best pilots, when they have accidents, it’s usually because they’ve screwed up something fundamental.” Rob Sporrer is the owner of Eagle Paragliding, one of the largest and most respected flying schools in the world. He’s been in the game for over two decades as an instructor, comp pilot, and respected pillar in the community. This conversation covers a lot of ground- we discuss risk management; the importance of working on the fundamentals no matter where you are in your progression as a pilot; where the sport typically bites and how you can beat the odds; how you can and should develop mental checklists; how to build a thriving flying community; how to support those who support you; the difference in SIV and the real world and a ton more. Don’t miss this one!

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Show Notes:

  • How is flying and learning different now than 20 years ago?
  • What attracts people to this sport…and why is it skycrack to some but not to most?
  • “Support those who support you”
  • Risk Management- at every level. How can you beat the odds?
  • Where do pilots get hurt? How to greatly reduce accidents.
  • How to land safely
  • How to launch safely
  • How to build a thriving community that stresses optimism, positivity, and encouragement
  • Working on the basics- EVERYONE needs to!
  • Reserve practice- you HAVE to practice!
  • Mental checklists and when you shouldn’t fly
  • Glider choice
  • Keep the fundamentals polished
  • Red Bull X-Alps


Rob Sporrer in Colombia on the Niviuk IcePeak 6

Mentioned in this episode:

Pete Thompson, Dave Hanning, Tom Truax, Cedar Wright, Dave Turner, Little John, Reavis Sutphin-Gray, Marty Devieti, Cody Tuttle, Mitch Riley, Jeff Shapiro, Aaron LaPlante, Mike Harrington, Will Gadd, Chris Santacroce, Randy Campadore, Nick Greece, Greg Babush, Kevin Bernanke, Logan Walters, Steve Kroop, Garmin, Recaps, Patagonia



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Episode 88- Rob Sporrer and building community, risk awareness and focus on fundamentals

00:00:01 - 00:05:01

? Everybody. Welcome to another episode of the cloud base may him. I am out in Santa Barbara trained for the x outs left are snowy Sun Valley for a month actually out here. Flying's really good. And I had no idea. How amazing this community was how deep the flying is mimics valley looked pretty mellow and how great the flying is. And and I've been really dying to talk to rob spor runs eagle pairs lying. He was there in the very beginning. When I first started learn fly in two thousand six he's been at this game since the mid nineties, and he has helped build extraordinary community out here. So I was really psyched to sit down with him last night and do a live show. Those are always real special. So I think you're going to really enjoy this talk about risk management and. Training and how to build a really solid community. Like they have here. Tolson great paragliding stories and some fun history their stuff, but a lot of take ways year a lot of lessons Vardis where you're at dot the stops a little bit. But really helped me kind of bring my mind back to the important stuff like fundamentals, anyway, just solid community. If any of you have not flown out here in Santa Barbara in this zone. Put it on your list. It's a proper hidden gem to gorgeous place, right on the ocean. But big mountain flying right behind it. And do some super impressive thing. So really enjoying that. I don't have a lot of housekeeping. We still have not done the broad across from patriot upsetting last couple shows that were eventually you're going to leave patriot. And do our subscription service through the website. And. Save you little bit of fees a little bit of money on the fees, but it's a input more on us. But it's a bigger transition than I realized and you need really solid internet to do that. And I'm out here camping and kind of go to the library for stuff like that. So I just avenue time. So we will get that run across but for now just stick where we are. And. Keep enjoying the shows, and that will happen here in the coming weeks and let you know what it does so beyond patron switch over. So that's it. That's all I got today's the first day at super final down by one musher saying that right down in Brazil looks beautiful. So fall the PDA sees website and their app in the watch the fast fund furious racing down in super finals, ten straight days should be great. And yeah, what's joy this show? So please enjoy this talk with rob spore head of you'll paragliding. Rob. I am still to be here with you and your little place. This is awesome. Had such a killer couple weeks and Santa Barbara. So we're going to talk about you, the specialness of this place. But so I just thank you. It's a real honored come here and talk to you, man. I mean, this you're the van in very beginning. My, you know, have thanks Jj. It's crazy so cool. But thank you. Yes. Thank you for for doing this huge effort out hyphen the time to do all you do. But this is something that ever been idle. Yeah. No, we're happy to have you spun watching you in revs Senate out there yesterday Hoke knows checking it out cool. Yeah. We're gonna get in your community. And we talked a lot about your history. We're gonna get in some of that and just eagle and instructing in just how this all came to be. But I thought really good way to pull people in right off the bat is that have you tell us a paragliding story. It doesn't have pair like hang line, whatever. But you've been at this long time. I'm sure you've got some stories to tell what's what's something that just sparks out enough to be your own flying story. Either dispute like something you saw something you still think back on go, man. That was crazy seems like the best stories I've had has been been flying with my friends, and you know, flying all cops. And so there's so many stories data.

00:05:01 - 00:10:06

I'm getting chased by the by the in. It wasn't an Email. It was one of those animals after. Landing just some crazy stuff. But I remember I remember landed after tasking land and all retrievals are gone is getting dark is after those big ones we headed east, and I was able to talk to the locals into the preacher's house into comedy short bus to get back to Chalan. So there's a lot of great stories from the constant one of them was from a dumb at flight at competition years ago. It got was with the league gaggle. We kinda thermal all got kind of hairy. I kind of bailed out of the thermal. I got real loud. Stuck can barely got up. And then little P cruised up over kind of. Hey, bud. You know? So we went cruising we ended up flying really race. And we were just kind of cruising in you know, we got we got climbing. Like, yeah, we think we got goal. It's gone. So he started on glide, and Dave handing it kind of been there with us too. And he's separated when a different way, and we figured that. You know, you're hopefully is gonna make gold leaders of gun. Stuck? And we didn't know it. So he started gliding towards goal in. We got low again, he's got drilled like now, you know. And so in climbing back up there in little Pete didn't get it in was coming in pretty tall in. So I kind of made a decision there as a better run at the end of speed. And hopefully, I'll get back ups. I went tag came back and then landed in and was first in Dave thought the guys. So he's lands syntax in the ever is like man, I've never wanna task for like. Oh, dude. That was pretty fun. And we get a hard time to that. But yeah, that was that was that was one of the things that the buddies. That was pretty funny. Little Pete pulling that off and not expect everybody got stuck like, where's everybody? Really? When you're way off the back of your in there. That's a good time. For sure. So we were just hanging out in the in the eagle, what do you call that place shop? Yeah. Places. Awesome. So we were just hanging out there. And you were giving me your history in how you got into this. So you're you're down in LA working, and you come up here at the beach in see some people land, and you're like I have to do this. What do you think it is about some because people, you know, you're in Santa Barbara your flying off the mountain you fly over the town you then on the beach people do it every day. What is it about people like you that just gravitate towards this? What is it that the deceased? You wanna like I have to do a have do that. I learned that such a great question, you know, on it something that I've continued to ask myself when I haven't been able to figure out Niamh, neither you've lineup a bunch of people and say what all these people have in common. And you know, they look different in different ages in people either have it in. They don't it's almost like someone that, you know, if you've lied hands they had loved to take tan, and you know, people like stoked or of no way. That's no way. I can do that. And so I don't know. I mean flying is such an archetype. I mean, you know, Leonardo on those guys if they had the proper materials, they would've been get in just it's something you see it either have to do it. Some you have to do it. But you know, sometimes it's a discovery too. I think that there's so many sports out there base jumping skydiving wing suiting. I think we get kinda mold into that whole people. Don't know what we are until they see it in you know, when we come out to the flight park there. People people will be a group of five people in one person. Was that person said, hey, I'm not gonna do this with you guys in they seat in the like, I didn't know this is what this was had known. This is what this was. So I just think it's part of it is people don't know what it is. But people that actually see it like probably. We both did and most people see it. It's like, Wow, I've gotta do this. And then, you know, and then the sky crack happens he said, yes. Cedar that term. So you see you just totally addicted right off the bat you were talking about Tom to acts, which he sounds just alleged. I'd love to get him on the show. What has changed since those days, you know, like compare how you learned to twenty nineteen over at the training hill now in that. Canetti mini answered is that is that too long? But what are the what are the main changes that, you know, a new learn the late nineties to what's happened? Now. The I think the number one things something that we were come one of the points. We were talking about before this was the technology on all levels. I mean, obviously, the gliders is the first one you think of in how much more performance and passive safety. But really just I mean like, I was telling you I started flying kind of before the internet Arete route was happening.

00:10:06 - 00:15:00

True. Acts would get the phone tree gone. You know, you call these five people all call those five people. So I think the technology of having someplace deposed in the telegram application that we use here in this community, or what's happ- that people are using and tweeting all that stuff really helps bring community gather and everybody on the same page as makes it easier for that collective to get together and go to church go fly. So so, yeah, I think those that's. Part of his the teaching and stuff. I mean, we definitely have refined things bit may discoveries. When I do instructor clinic in let everybody knows it's like ham here to silicate this clinic, I fully expect to walk away learning something from from you, you might you might be still stuff to discover us one of the beautiful things about his they're still a moves, and techniques and knowledge, it'll it'll just never it's just forever. It's infinite. So I think there's definitely some stuff that the slop break things not happen anymore people keeping their breaks their hand, you know, in some fundamental stuff. S stuff is changed. But I really feel like, you know, the technology's helped bunch, and I feel like more people are there's more schools, and it's just it's more. It's more places. People are seen it more. But back to your question about what makes people want to do this. It's like scratch my head here because they see us flying around. They see us flying out over town, ending the beach, and it's curious that more people aren't knocking on the door to do this. And it's it's kind of India, and, you know, maybe what it takes us some sort of educational thing to show people what this isn't and to show it to what do you think that you know, because the numbers nationwide. I think really in the world don't really back up what you're experiencing here. You know, you're experiencing the best growth. And right are kind of the best numbers that you've had right now, you know, for for for the sport in general here in the US students or for our our view for. E is an eagle kind of. Yeah. Per she's doing good or better than you. Never have numbers were continuing to grow better than it's ever been part of that is because of the community here ever. Sure. Because I was just going to say, you know, the that isn't what's happening, you know, in USA. It hasn't let in it's not really happening. I think worldwide, you know, the numbers are static or they're down for the most part, except in places that are pretty dynamic in just in my two weeks that I've been here. This is really special. Yes, I'd love restock about how that's been. I know you're too humble dealing with that, you know, that's a known to community. But how how have you fostered that? Or how of the members of this community fostering that because it's a really unique vibe it really is. It's a special thing. I go into that. I think I'll answer that first thing said because it's such a good point is why isn't growing more other places in part of it is. In it's its philosophy that I've had it seems to make sense in his ethical, as you know, support those that are supporting you if somebody's puts an energy to start a school someplace, and they throw down for gear vehicle insurance radio's on whatever they got get to get off the ground try to try to nurture them and support them with with your business. And and, you know, in for that matter anybody that support you in in the sport, if I had somebody that I train somebody else was giving them the continued support support that person if they've got a school. There's an incentive there to continue to kind of mentor nurture educate, and I think there's a fair amount of attrition because that might not be happening as much as it can sometimes it's it's not the. Solo school. Instructors bought. You can't be everywhere ones. And there's tough choices to make their for a smaller school like that to take the new people or a good day to go fly. The people are ready to find the mountains because weather's good and you true acts always took us find in the mountains. New people like sorry. I gotta get these guys up in the air. And and so it's one of those things where it's tough balance there. And I think it's hard to to find that balance in but part of the thing with folks, it's like the Amazon era where you go online and you shop, and it seems like there's more from capitalistic stamped winters more online shops to buy paragliding stuff now, and maybe a little bit of pricing stuff happens. And there's not a lot service happen there. It's easy to sell its challenging serve. So if you you know. Points right back if you're someone who's supporting someone in your small communion. It doesn't really apply too much to me here because we've got a bunch of staff big instructors in that type of thing.

00:15:00 - 00:20:02

I mean granted we want to support for those we support. But I think it's really critical for a smaller school is just one person or a couple of people that the community really tries to port the, hey, they're the people that are out making sure the L Z's stay open mowing the grass departure and doing everything kinda makes that community stronger. And if that goes away, it might not be noticed until it's too late on. So I think some of that the follow up of continuing education can lead to attrition. We have a really good thing where we hand we still are there for our students. But there's a lot of people in our community that play that mentor game, which kind of leads into your thing about this community. So that's something that would help the attrition statistic and help nurture those communities help them school. Stay successful in the sport, grow, right. But here it's all about the the the vibe of these people in the stoke lovely said is higher than ever been part of. It's technology raw connected instead of the phone tree. But a lot of just new the hang gliding paragliding. There's no gap or distance here between those two groups. And in a little John are are saying hang gliding club board member has been the person leading the charge for decades and show us the way on that. And made sure that we kept our sights and been the point person on that. And then just people stepping up. I mean, I mentioned that we could go to a work party on for paragliding launch. There's more hang gliders helping paragliders, and you know, Yun revs flying yesterday on telegram is like, hey, who's on. Jay's who's going to get these guys. And I mean, that's that's still close. Somebody has a big day. I mean, mardi gave yet he has a big day on flying. He's driving the van the next days. I'll chase today. Right. You know? So it's that kind of that kind of vibe that just starts feeding off the self and people get it. And then there's like all these little subcultures within the OT TV crew people really starting to send it and go over the back and do stuff and slogans the good. No, you gotta you gotta go to now. Be ready and go to now, it's you know. Yeah. There's a real real optimism. There's a real positively in. It's not careless. That's what's really neat about it. There's a, you know, I even heard very recent last couple of days, you know, I was talking about this. I was just like, hey, guys. This is kinda hit me full-frontal hair. Like what is going on here? Because I I lived in Santa Barbara wall before I flew in Santa Barbara has that by is just people really happier because it's amazing stunning around the ocean yet, he's beautiful mounds. I mean, I get that. But you know, it's time on what we doing to nurture this and curate this in, you know, make it grow. And one of the guys seems pretty new pilot. Like, you know, yet, you know, it's. Different. When I go to Sierras, it's all about fear. It's all about you know, like in their time on the Cody titles up their new guy in he's just stoked. He's like, let's do this. You know, because there was this real period there for like ten years kind of hang gliding, you don't fly there in the summer really until Dave Turner showed up in Phnom any fly all the time. And but I think they're still this kinda like, and we have that some valley, and people are always careful man careful, but you be pretty careful here too. But there's this real openness, I think with sharing all the knowledge, regardless of where I saw with Mitch and other people they tell you about what they think about the day, whether you're p one or p four, you know, they treat everybody like this is a playground. And again, it's it's this weird. Like, not you're not they're not being careless like am into sending just go. Go deep in there. You know? No. But they're encouraging. It's a it's a cool balance. It is Mitch is definitely been the leader on that. He's been a guy, you know, getting a talent like him to come in to be part of the team in teach at the from the new people guiding people and stuff is just been a huge part of our growth in success in the community five he took that leadership position. Yeah. I mean, he basically gives you that energy and tell you the truth that you can take any flying site. And you know, it's all about the debrief. And you know, he lets you know that you know, everybody's got an individualist vision to make up here about flying today. But you kind of nailed it the whole fear thing. There's plenty of that to go around it seems like jour-. So let's nurture the other side of it and keep it positive. Mitch leads by example. But he someone who can do he's earned the ability in the knowledge and stuff to do the bigger fights and lets people know that and. Turn to people to check in themselves bid on that in causing people to think that way. And so he's been a huge part of that. And I think that's key. I think that having someone who is up there in an even talking to people on the way up in the van you don't talk about for people in there. You got to be there for the lowest common denominator.

00:20:02 - 00:25:01

And so it gets communicated. It's not like something like that happens. Like, hey, guess should have been talking about that? With those first high flight people that's not what they needed to have in their ram head space for their first launch. Sure. And so get nipped in the bud, and it will it will get swept under the rug when a graceful way, and there's communication about stuff happening like that on telegram in the opium of three hundred people three hundred fifty members whenever we have now. Mitch just jumped in last week on a couple of weeks ago on a comment that he's he's so great about that. You know, he's been someone who came in here in and has taught his definitely taught me a lot about a lot of things. So that's that's talking about about. He's, you know, we make suggestions there's no ego involved with folks. It's just like boom, boom. Hey, let's let's share this information kind of like Columbia tours were down there. New Shapiro's talk. And he was down there guide with this issue. All guys, I'm taking notes at the at the thing. I mean, there's always stuff in there. The for where you didn't know the needs to be an affirmation. So there's obviously got Mitch makes living as paragliding guide instructor. But a big part of what happens here is the community of people that are just Stoudt to share the energy and see people doing better in others, a huge amount of mentors year that are happy to do that. And just naturally do it. And it's not like auto wanna. Jeopardize my flying day in focus on this. They do enough they walked the ELLs ease and talk about flight plans in everybody's talking sharing. It's like when you haven't experienced whether it's a great one or it's one it's not so great. You got to share that with the community. So that we can all learn from it. So that cultures sort of in nurtured seventy lessons to learn in life. We can't learn all the same applies for flying. You know, this community is really good about doing that stuff in owning it and sharing it and that helps guys like Aaron the plant cracker. Yeah. He's he's, you know, for community to have an individual that volunteers time to what he does he organized a copier for a couple years called SP hoedown, which is a month long task in people can download it gets people to know how to use their instrument in strategies for reysen in that type of thing in. He's got a score that do that. So just a huge amount of effort for him on that you got to come to the ward ceremony at the park. And the other thing that he's done that his binges super huge is his crack sauce, his YouTube channel crack sauce, and he got a commendation for that. And it's just it's really the future learning is in my opinion. I mean, he just is on there talking about this area. Whether your local where you're visiting pilot. You can get the beta, and you can watch it again and do that little bit of push. Involoved a little bit on each. And every flight me, get more comfortable as stuff on no things and then answers of their for this community. There's there's a template there. Long course, Tom true axes flight logs, but the whole video that's where everything that can learn so much and you can log in. So I feel like the hang gliding community is a huge part of our body success. Just 'cause they're so cool in there, so stoked on fine. They're still out there flying. But it's just all the members of the community. One of our hang gliders. Mike Harrington's the biggest supporter like organized events and bringing chairs, and it's just so it's part of that in it just kind gets like a snowball teams. It's just it's growing people come here. Like you like you said it. Law. Yeah. Just like. Wow. So a lot of a lot of elements there. But is it's the collective I mean, we'll get talked about the collective when he did the Canadian nationals. Here's a go. If there's a everybody's, you know, this group thing here, the all gotta we've all got to do our part. If you if you these up mess up throwing the river. We we don't have a river. But once in a while somebody in the river. But but yes, it's a special deal for sure I needs to be. I mean, I think this just that's how communities work I think it's just gonna get naturally exported. You know, people come in like myself, see this in go man's is what you don't bring this home, Dr club. And you know, I think our clubs a great little club. But it's it makes you realize you can really you can really I think what you guys are doing is fostering folding people, and you must take people, you know, very new pilots from the training hill. And you, you know, you wind him in wind him in and suddenly they're going up the mountain and they're going off a four thousand foot launch. You know, that's pretty awesome. It doesn't. I think they're able to go further and get more confident and acquire knowledge and experience. Because of the Canadian their their share just more valuable to them. I mean, somebody somebody blows a launch and has a great three hour fight.

00:25:01 - 00:30:05

It's real easy to talk about the flight. But it's great and somebody comes up today. Let's talk about them is gonna keep it real. And share that stuff is group, and that's all that's all part of it. And so definitely everybody's feeling good about the community in what's going on. And and really realize how special dozens we all are doing everything we can to nurture and keep Conan's. It's a collective community effort for sure. You wanna talk about risk management? How let's take it from there into, you know, it's not the darker side is just as dangerous sport. And you know, we we've got a manage that risk if you guys developed systems, how do you? How do you teach risk management not only your students, but to your known structures? You know, they're they're real set program because you're dealing like you said in the beginning, you're dealing with people at totally different ages different histories, different backgrounds, different color skin. You know, the whole thing and people are different. That's a great question. You know, in somebody's shows up at the hill part of the fun of being an instructor is trying to write the prescription the recipe that's gonna give that person success depending on where they're at in. How the learning that constant evaluation during those first moments in the first couple days teaching that we obviously go over in share tricks with each other and how to deal with certain types of personalities. No, there's certain people you need to kind of encourage in their certain people, you got the bit in the mouth, and you're pulling back. So there's there's definitely stuff that we share with respect to that to really how, hey, this is an individual thing that you know, that kind of gets passed on all the way up to someone in Mitch in the mountains in a lead position really get people to kind of check in themselves on where they're at their experience. How they're feeling on a particular day good night's sleep by the hydrated any of that kind of stuff. So so, yeah, I mean our thing here is. For me risk management with with my staff as sharing experiences. I mean, there's obviously all book stuff that we you know, we go to SIV clinics. We learned that stuff. That's a great way to be more informed and to practice what we need to be ready for in the wild. You know, but my whole take on and I've had to step back and look at the whole risk management. I've had people that have have lost their lives at friends of mine that have paragliding, but when I step back at it after after those events analyze things into stepping back and looking at at it over the years, you know, I realized that whether you're as snow boarder or a rock climber or a road biker or skateboarder anybody that has come to serious injury. In those sports head neck back pelvis is getting her close to the ground. You know, if you stand in the trees, people has trees in the heart can't be reset on that. One and people fall from rocks. People may most the people I see in the community here that are limping around or their arms things mountain biking or something else. So we think about risk, and we have the luxury to get away from terra firma from the thing that's gonna that can hurt us. I mean grand can fly another pilot have a mid air plane type of think about it when we're up there Gago flynt's gun of different scene. There's more danger there, but there's nothing smack into there. So I tell people on our tours during our opening talk. I bet anybody here that majority of the incidents if we have incidents on this winner in the risk management topic rough fear based down there's a lot of other stuff retorted. Oh, but we do have that short talk. It's like it's gonna be from landing in my experience as far as risk goes has been people get our landing on. That's just been my experience. I mean, whether you're talking about people that are doing. X Alps or you're talking to somebody toddler flight park, where you're talking about somebody just landing in our local ELLs on the tour it's landing and so trying to break that stuff down into just like super basic basic form, obviously landing VO biz situation might be landing in windy conditions or someone even terrain and so their stuff he'd to practice to be good at that. Good reason to get back to the flight park, even to that level of pilot practice that stuff. But you know, thinking about you. The fact is the landing is as long as you're flying straight on your landing. You're probably going to be in pretty good shape. People have caught we tips on trees landing in fallen from twenty or thirty feet. But a lot of the stuff that I've seen over the years on any self inflicted. So it's almost like if you come to small house E ON across country fire you can put yourself in the spot as a pair of our pilot.

00:30:05 - 00:35:10

You gotta realize that bushes and trees are your friends. And you know, it's only after the fact if somebody tried to put it into a tight spot in they spun their glider or they turn close to the ground. They broke her ankle broke through back or pelvis. Like man, it was hanging in a tree. I now instead so that's one of the things there's so much stuff that so instinctual for us that seems to be there's so much as counterintuitive with paragliding, but the in into. Part. Sometimes just like I only in field. So make friends with trees bushes and enough I'm setting up at a small site like that I'm setting up and I've got my spot him to try to hit. But I've also looked past that there's might lose. There's my tree, and I'm so K with landing there. I'm going to be fine. I don't know anybody's landed. Her Bush Trues anything too serious happen to them maybe climbing out of the tree don't fall out of the tree. So the landing has huge. There's there's a couple of other things where with landing where people if they're coming in high altitudes in the ground's moving by faster than they've ever seen before. Or they're coming in on on a down -ment run. It's it's natural intuitive thing, I don't know if I can run this fast. So let me slow this whole package down to make. It's what I can run it as let me stop back in his we both know think about hardly any. But it's counterintuitive, and it's almost instinct so talk about that stuff. Like, there's a couple of things that you gotta do. I mean, obviously manning in boulder field or a cactus fielder river in a landing. You know? That's that's not good. But for talking about just Lanny as long as you're fine strayed. You're doing good at one of the things that Mitch kind of one of the things that he brought up was that. It's good, you know, get out of that seat early and really in that athletic position where you're almost waiting for you launching. Yeah. Like new launching torpedo eagle, whatever you. Gonna call it. That's gonna put you in a place where your body weeks not behind your feet in you gotta park for the ground. You know, you got rolled out do whatever you gotta do. But it's much better to have ankles knees. Having stuff happen than have come in. Let your butt hit or having all that weight particles in knees so practicing that and so that's kind of the big thing is is we get into flying. People have a certain amount of time to fly. You got a nine to five job in weekends. Your time. Many gonna try to get out to someplace in work on those fundamentals after a flyer instead of a flight sometimes just a policy that stuff up in man. It's so hard to turn down a good day to do that in. You know, some people don't have great flight park to do that go to a place that has a place like that to train make a trip about doing both. 'cause it's it's super import. So flying straight being friends with trees, not close to the ground. And you're pretty good. Really? And you have the questionnaires, of course, lachey. That's the other time we close to the ground, and there's only a couple of things there in number one is when you're anytime, you're in the four position in your runoff hill with your feet on the ground. It's better to have too much break into little break on the worst thing. That's going to happen. Is that the gliders gonna come back down behind you? And you'll get reset again, pretty quick. And then the other if it gets a head of you who knows what's going to happen. You can tumble half the wing can fly pick up and put you back into the hill. And then my my big big one on launching. And this is something I really talk about him. I ground school that happens to pilots of all levels plucking thing it just happens. I mean, the kisha when it's in so part of it is really break in that down. Like, you're talking about with the instructing structure teaching in the student understanding it and part of it is understanding why that happens when it happens. It happens when the winds up usually above eight or nine miles an hour, you're more likely to get plucked if you're on a steeper slope. Right. So if you didn't find those two things like, it's ripe for plucking. Now, let me visualize my long says another mitch's him. I mean, he's big on that. And it's the truth. Let me visualize what my law is gonna look like here. What's my footwork? Look like here people need to that. Plug. Thing has got some people. I've been there to see it. Get some people pay the price. Students from Hong Kong call over on. No, man, we had this guy here. So it's one can get you in get away with Kimber as Tom Tom Webster is at Murphy's law. Doesn't apply to Perry thing? Paragliding everything that can go wrong. Does that go wrong, right? Yeah. How often do we get lucky? It's unbelievable. I think about that too. Like, my I take way after the twenty fifteen ex house on just completed the X helps, you know, like, I've got some hours, and you know, by five so much to learn that was the main dig way, but the the big one for me was that men indoor training hill lot more even you know, it was it was like.

00:35:10 - 00:40:08

Yeah. Cam in the X apps, but man, I gotta do a lot more acro. Do a lot more into the hill. Top landing, you know, like the fly on the wall thing, and you get that timing wrong break-up legs and you're doing in that race all the time. You know, the old hang glider style and stuff and ethics. Lot of practice. But you don't want practice that on four thousand foot mountain and wind, you know, you wanna practice training ill. And it was really brought back for me. Like man that work on this stuff. No matter what level you're at. And then to me like the pluck thing is, you know, if you've trained for that stuff. Then if you're going into that kind of situation in your confident makes all the difference. Like, man, I don't know if I have this move, you probably don't have that move. You could get lucky nine times out of ten. But that's the thing. This sport takes once. And you gotta be ready. Yeah. You gotta be ready only way to be ready to have done that on the training hill and high wind over and over and over and in no it I mean, there's that famous video of Kriegel launching in the X peer, it's blowing least forty miles an hour. You know, and there's another expert pilot right there, and he's like looking at him doing remember that he'd pops that wing up and just catapults backwards for like fifty feet steady. Just has it. He knows he's got it. 'cause he's trained in sixty an hour winds in the snow where he can take beaters in the powder. You know, he's done it over and over and over again. So he knows he's got that move like when he walks up there. He's like, yeah. This is a win that I can manage lemon people mandate that gonna wind. No, not people not enough. People can manage it in just a little bit stronger conditions and not enough people are thinking about like ham to reverse launch here and the winds up. He this is a situation. You know, there's some winter. This is a situation where I could get pluck the remedy is being ready. And so you get up to the hill, and it kind it kind of links up with the sl training in the sense that a lot of what's being taught out. There is like sorting out. Your glider is not the first first objective. It's getting ahead in getting the glider flying in any of those situations. Whether it's corvette or whatever it is. It's like let's get heading in that happens on a launch or near Laci, you're buying. You're getting time. Something happens on a launch like pluck edge. And he's just start dealing turning it into insted. The guy's probably going to be an attorney attorney back in terrain. Thankfully, most of the time. You know, the thing just unwinds, and you're okay. But you know, like you said. That's that's part of the deal get out to the training. Helen. So we get people on the rear risers. We get him. We want we want it to happen to them at the hill in their kiting. So they see what a crummy feeling it is. You know, you've got that Haning point. There's kind on the beaner, which is if you look at the median line your body from the profile the connection points out front. They're just more weight on the backside. It's gonna put you back in when you fall down. You gotta break in your hand. Sometimes you're going to put that out naturally intern glider so quick like a cat. You feel yourself being plucked get turn around you replanning ongoing flying. It's just happened earlier than you antiquated. You know and flag ladder being ready. Like, you said for that like Kriegel is and being able to grab it starts. Katie. It also is grabbing the brake lines above because if you're risers twisted up, and you can't identify using grab the gotta use those brake lines and get so good kiting that way that you kind of go to the little back part of the hill. Start getting lifted off the ground. You're not really reading until you can actually watch backward. And you're comfortable flying off the hill backers you got to build up that in baby steps, you know, you don't get out there and track right way. But being ready for that is huge. There's so much of taking those little those little pieces in going to the Helen working on that like you said even for a ramble on Hefley on. So the after the launching that's really that's kind of my big one is the puck. And the thing is is realized that you can use your doesn't matter if you're using the as each individual hand, or you've got the as here with as in Caesar, you still want to be moving your feet, and you really want you want to you can get that pace that the wing comes up to kind of be the same every time develop some consistency there if that thing rips up too fast, you gotta check with Blake break, you're gonna get plucked. But if you run fat, you got yeah. You know, some people can't move that fast. Something off your someone at sixty eight errors like the, you know, maybe you gotta. To hold off or or in not going that day figures get a spot or figure something out, you know, that's close to the train launching landing. Those big ones. The only other one is every three sixty starts out as a figure eight whether it's on launch or whether it's on across country flying you come in.

00:40:08 - 00:45:06

And you got to be close to the terrain. You can't count on that climb that you get there on that spine to start pointing to the terrain to continue to climb in. I'm so glad you brought that up because that was one of the first things I learned. So I I did my p two hours Santa in the next one of the next stops was here with you. You know, rows with Randy camping or we on a little road trip up the coast, which was so cool is like one of the first places I flew here. But on that one of the things that I learned back to this two thousand five guest doesn't six is don't turn into the hill. You know in that still getting people all the time, and they get they get a ripper right off. Launch in a turn in. They hit all that sink. Right behind the thermal. They dropped their like, I just didn't know I could drop that fast in a pound. Yeah. It's it's one that we see at our flight park with experienced pilots. You know, maybe it's because it's the training Helms big green grassy knoll. And it's not. But rocky mountains, the rocky rocky terrain and should say. But yeah, you know, you I had a so callup in MAC layer put on like back in the day. I had an experience where I was duck in two people pass me, and I you know, below me and unlike mad, and I went over there at wasn't getting up, and I got impatient. In pushing a little bit away from the hill on have enough room to bring this around. And you know, I cut it close I swooped in energy. I prob- include the terrain by five or six feet, some energy, and the adrenaline just were all, you know. And then, you know, then you get the buffer judgment. Feet talking. What are you doing this? You know? And so, you know, people have that. But it's one of those things where again, you gotta talk about it in realize that you have to assume as you looking back. There you go soon he got a tale in in your hit the worst sink that you're eve ever hit. Are you still included hill by one hundred feet around fifty feet? Whatever your save number his. In. To be religious about that in just you have that happen once and you've got a buffer, but hopefully doesn't happen in you. Don't create the hill and smack in the tough less any at yet is one of those. It's like it's like a, you know back country avalanche stuff. You know, you don't you can do all the courses and be really diligent. But until you get in a situation, it's not it's really hard to learn. And that's that's one of those like turn the hill because you can get away with it over at you're in the rising era over and over and over and over again, I'd same thing last day of the Sierra safari with Nick. And all those guys I hit the ground with a lot of energy, and it was right in between these two boulders. I mean, if it wasn't just pure pure, pure luck. And I just walked away relaunched and kept going in. I've never done since and everything. And so it's you know, but if I hadn't had that, you know, a hit the bowler all that energy. It's a big one. I mean, it's it gets a lot of people it does man in its again. So it's this. It's this my handle for he's got the radio. Handler and cinnabar mine was essay, which is not like ASA not that stands for situational awareness and true AXA gave it to me after I landed deep and did some stupid like work for four months, but I had a nine hour hike. Stumbled out of their dehydrating was dumb. You gotta have that. And you gotta have that buffer. And you know, you kinda gotta reevaluate the day as the day goes on the clouds come in shuts things down a little bit. Maybe you're will not windy. Maybe you're willing to get a little closer to the terrain on certain days. You gotta kind always do that reevaluation. Where's the day at I mean flying into different valleys have different winds around the world. But on a on kind of a basic level. It's like really got to evaluate the day. And evaluate how close you're willing to be to the terrain. You know? And so that that figure every three sixty starts a figure eight in the other the end of that is that on landing. Final approach got kinda assume the same thing, you gotta assume as soon as you make that final turn you're gonna hit Saint are you gonna clear the pendulum or whatever it is on the turn on that. And if it looks like you're not don't continue the turn enforce it into the wind stop turning and fly off. Win line. It's gonna be the lesser of two evils for sure. And then my other big from the risk management thing. Really the last kind of my heavy hidden thing on the reserve parachute. You know? It's one of those things that people may get to practice at an SI v. And we, of course, talk about anytime, you have reserve repack repacked, you should always be in the simulator.

00:45:06 - 00:50:04

Pulling it out instead his handing off your server is saying here repacked is. It's an opportunity to practice that is like every landing as an opportunity to practice the spot. Any no matter big deals is. So the reserve thing is something where images digitalization thing. It's like, let's visualize this thing. Let's talk about this thing. Let's realize that we need to celebrate. The reserve toss, you know. It's all pot. No one's ever gonna say to you. Why did you throw reserve? Work the. They always the thing. I don't know anybody who's thrown their reserve and has followed the proper protocol, which is getting out of your harness, and, you know, working disabled wing that's had something serious happy get ankle or something they work. So so there's people that obviously be both know that it's like man if they were just thrown in. So that happened too much in people need to make that an instinct and be comfortable with it. And maybe it's a thing where with reserve clinks that we have to have dummy. Reserve in have people doing it all the time just thrown known throwing dealing with all these what if scenarios what if my handle can't come use two hands pull this way. Now in just make it this this thing in talk about it a lot in talk about it at every clinic, you do just kinda put that out there and encourage people to go through it at the v 'cause you're right. They do work. I mean when I was down in Mexico. At the world championships as the team leader in two thousand nine there's a twenty six deployments amounts when the wings. They're find uncertified guys back then there's blown up but everybody who through I think the guy from Japan like sprained his wrist or something. So they work, and that's something that that people really gotta get got us. That thing you gotta be willing to use. It don't hesitate. You know, it's not gonna let you down. Glad you brought that up is a think that. The thing. I saw by this year's it was just classic by strong. Wendy was on, you know, great. And you know, there was a lot of incidences and. What I saw was it. You know? S IV over the water with the dune your ear is not by man. It's just totally different ballgame. You're not in still, you know. I mean, and what I liked that you've instilled here is that everybody here talks about training. They're not going to far out in the sky. They're all taken it like, we gotta go. You got that place in the evening. They go over here. And they top land ridge soars, and they make little games and stuff, you know. And yes age, and you know, everybody's talking about training. And I think that's the, you know, the recognition is that we all know that s IV is awesome. Right. And you should be doing it as much as you possibly can. But that is not five meter second conditions. You know, you spend your glider big wound up thermal three hundred feet off the ground. You do not think that's your throw and you hawk you're not recovering. And so it's yes, it's a different ball game. You know, it's very different. Situation that's hard without a law hours ceiling way to get it hours. That's an you know. You know, I'm talking about the whole risk management thing. I mean out of everybody that I've known her tours and flying here visiting our students, think pilots are students like Nobis fall out of the sky that often compared to people get injured on launching landing. Also, believe me, I'm all about SIV's. I think they're great. But I think people I gotta go do s e clinic unlike yes, you do a great thing to do. You. Also, gotta go work under fundamentals and be ready for some of this other stuff and think through some of this stuff 'til fact that the the ground is gonna get you have your game together in all the variables that are close to the ground here. You know? So let's talk, but this guy in those of you listening point in my head risk management in the mental side. I heard, you know, just constantly learning so cool but three days ago. Everybody went up and it sounded like the air was a little rowdy early. And I was doing a hike down by. Franklin. So I I heard about it. But you know, Ravis mazing pilot that do Thanh, right? And and he just he just flew right Parma. He was like I just didn't like the risk reward. But the other thing he says he's got a rule that if he screws up three things before he launches he's not flying, you know, and he was kind of like two and a half. Like he forgot to bring his phone out of his pocket to put it on the thing. Something else can't turned on. You know, the minor stuff at to him. It's like, that's that's that's tick in the box like something in right up here.

00:50:04 - 00:55:00

Not thinking really, clearly, so what a cool system, you know. It's great because when we're little bit stressed tired little bit dehydrated. We've had a couple too many beers ninety four whatever like there's you know, there's there's a lot of those times worse. Like, man. I don't know if I'm really here that well, you know, when I was I learned I get my p two at with the Santa, you know, like the last day, I was getting my little mountain flight, you know, wicked hot summer baking and in-depth was kind of watching me, and he could tell that I was kinda like forgetting determine rider. Do I turn laughed, and I was having a hard time hooking and stuff, and he just came over put his hand my shoulder. Like you're done today. You're you're all over. I couldn't recognize it. But he could just you know, like, so how do you teach? How do you guys foster that or teach that I know? There's a lot of different levels. But you know, it's that's that's a great point in. It's something that I seen that three. Ru there's people of the three role thing would have been happening. They wouldn't have had their event. Mitch started Vulcan this buddy system thing which I think is pretty cool too. We always had the culture of checking each other's stuff out launch. When you're getting ready Hayes. You think don't be afraid to say something is your is your correct rising top checking people making sure people's legs straps hooked up. So that that three rules broken thing. I mean, definitely new people that have skipped that one in being rushed typically when people are in a rush if you're rushing wrong head space. So yeah, I mean, we have to share all that stuff and communicate that stuff in grounds going and continue to communicate it in be evidence. Charter in we've we've talked. About that. At the flight park, especially we get a lot of one day people up there that are doing their first day, and they're just so stoked, and we have to be looking for what Santa notice than you that day, that's one of the big ones. So it's it's one of those things with that whole checking yourself so awareness thing as a pilot, but also for people that are awaken up for wear enough to help themselves to be able to step in and say something whether you're an instructor not that's one of the things that sorta needs being courage, as if you think you see something say, I remember when I was a only been flying for year and a half or so I saw a guy flying this spot. You're kind of a ridge that kinda did this elbowed who's get more cross. I kept saying to him on the radio eight be flying over there skit more cross in after saying it a few times in a little bit like a broken record. I kinda said he may be mine. New business. I'm not instructor notes. When I'm talking about any event and going in, and I'm like in son, and I've seen that with other people's like you see something she somebody flying to deepen the brakes in a graceful manner. Say it in something that they need to hear at least house dialogue about it. And bring somebody else that's an instructor into talk about it. So yeah, I mean, it's definitely something that we're looking for the fatigue factor for sure in the focus factor. And if you see somebody moving fast, you kinda twitchy on marching that nervous. It's like, hey, that's and we try to as instructors at the hill in in the mountains. We try to be we talk about about being in a physical space to do something. Meaning as a person there to help guide not only reassessing conditions. But if things go bad on wash, you know, it's like, let's not see how this unfolds. Let's stop it and grab on your riser. Bring him down being physical space. Regan do something. If you are up at the flight Parkinson's takes off on a first day thing there in your on radio on go, right, go, right? They're still on the ground running going off in the canyon. You messed up as an instructor. You gotta be in front of them between where they're going and be like, hey, let's bring this down in same thing can be said on the mountain. There's a certain point you kind of step away from people, but why not be there? Stop luck. John someone new or when the conditions are ripe. Any know we kind of communicate with the pilots student saying I'm here. I'm not going to do anything my making uncomfortable mid year to just kinda support you if you need something pretend, I'm not here in focus on the task at hand. And. Oh to really be in their body for the launch be grounded. You gotta be grounded before you can fly. You can't be. He can't have that temple that nervous energy going. You gotta be grounded in your body or fly in one of the big ones with respect to the buddy system and self awareness in the preflight check is the leg straps. Thankfully, all these.

00:55:00 - 01:00:06

Modern harnesses were building systems ended them that prevent you from having situation where you take off. You're not strapped in for the most part of they're still some older horses and still send don't have that. And I mean, I remember Greg bushes. Pod took off that unknowns comp in ten or so years ago if ghost riding up there he was thermally back in the canyon, though, beating people are coming on the radio and Brunetti like, no, there's no pilot in that aircraft. You know, he flipped out at ten fee. Hit good situational artists that had a deal this out yet. Soft just rolled his ankle out. A couple of few days. But that's something that I bring up that weird. What if scenario I mean, there's been people who've lost their lives because they didn't do their leg straps here in Columbia this winter pilot air exactly so in have people really thought about I mean, like I said, the modern harms has has systems stuff if you ever really been in a me later that's been lifted up higher than. Enormous invader in home from harness and had see that feels like to be put yourself in that scenario, and what you do. And I'd never really thought about it 'til some of those instances were put in front of me. He sit back, and you think about what would I have done there? And that's just it's like, okay, let's practice this. You just don't practice to sit in the simulator. Do it. That's about it. But it's something has gotten people after reflecting on and hanging in one of those things funding, the whole thing shifts up, and you've got some break on my takeaways from messing around that is I'm not gonna give up my hold position of power to get more comfortable and try to be your hero and get back into C and Vienna worse position because the sight adjustment straps are appear. Your ribs move up to your armpits, and you got brake on Hello things kind of moved up. So what I would probably do for myself is class man's together. Not lose anything in his fly thing. In this tree or some bushes at March. Hang out, and how long I can hang on for. But you know, situations like that of those just random what is, but you talk about him try to figure out what you do pass the information along hopefully somebody who actually hasn't happened had thought about it and was ready but yet in Columbia that happened. And there was you know, again land, you know, the winds common, and you're pushing the envelope in the afternoons down there. I think one of the girls landed in windy conditions choice. The other one was on someone took off from launch and let go their breaks get comfortable in their seat. And wasn't there to be ready to grab the pressure of deflation end, so all neverthe- gear everything? Yeah. That's it. And so taking some ownership there on that. And just really having it's nice when when it's not fun to talk about some of that stuff. But he gotta talk about it to be ready for it in figure out what could have been done differently. What you don't want to do? And so I think revenues three three things his book Aaliyah. I d I agree with you. I like it because it's something concrete in it doesn't change in you don't because otherwise you let yourself out stuff. You know, that's a real concrete. Wait a minute. I've done like I'm over the limit now. And I think that's one of the things I'm enjoying the most about my flying. Now is that? You know, you go through this phase where you're so hungry unite Logan right now is like the wing out of the bag every day. That's my thing is awesome. Dig that. Dude can be good. But what I'm liking about? Now. Like, Nick Reese talks about like this. You know, you don't stead of getting that extra twenty K, I'm going to the airport or I'm going to burger joint, you know, or like, you know, there's a lot of times like, I don't I don't have it. I don't need to push this. Like, I did for all those years, you know, and it's still just as Gioia because Santa said this to the big epic days will come in those are the ones he got a nail. And you know, you don't need. There's a time where you've got I had an Instagram message today in the guy said, hey, how much wind it was after the post from yesterday going over the back Franklin. Those of you listening that we the sky revson. I when my supporters in the excerpts had it really need flight yesterday over the back here, which is pretty proper tiger country house ruining press, and in and it was really windy, and this guy asked me like how much wind are you willing to fly in Lee? And I said man, you can't have number. It depends on the day depends on how confident I am to gear depends on just where I am. I current, you know, my three hundred hours into the season or am I five, you know? And and just you know, I've stuck I've flown in horrendously in a flown and not so badly enough so badly scared me more than the horrendous.

01:00:06 - 01:05:05

Just depends on your head space until worry are. It's so true. There's so much to evaluate that question. So many variables. So the the culture of self awareness in checking in with yourself in that something that he probably got a practice to. It's not something that you naturally do. I had a I had a a bummer landing in Colombia United injured. It was pretty I came down. But and you know after mitch's talk about visualization stuff. It's like you talk about doing that stuff to you, actually, go and sit down and do the yoga pose or do the meditation or whatever you wanna call it that is thinking about going through that. And it's about doing that work. And I think Mitch does that kind of work. I think that's what I seen. The results descending does is a lot of different things. But from the mental aspect is did I did I sat down and I did that. And I think it's people want to grow achieve these goals as pilots, and I feel like that whole mental side of it and the debrief in the review. Checking in yourself is such a big part of it's kind of harder to do. There's not always a roadmap for that. But I think you know, it's like practicing the Qatar fifteen minutes a day, you can learn to play a few chords. You know, you gotta put the time in to nurture that party, your pilot portfolio, and realizing that like you said, it's not it's not time to push. It's time to go there. And that goes back to reevaluating all the time. I mean, there's times when I've been up there flying it just avenue able to make sense of the air. And that's part of the reward is being able to track that cori- day with it. And it's like I can't figure any of this out in. I think I'd rather be bike in or doing something else. It's like is this just isn't fun right now, and you head out Newland and you lived flying other day. And and yeah, Santa's good days are gonna come. They're gonna be there for sure. Yeah. The last time we flew together than I remember. We've. Seen other sense, but proper flying in the air think she'll LAN twenty twelve or twenty thirteen. I remember this the bus retreat with a big flight that was at that time the biggest one and then they went even bigger couple years later without Nebot flight. Over the Pollux. Thank you. So cool. You were flying ice peak is I remember, I don't remember what Horace you replying, but take me through a little bit gear. You know, I know that you're a big shop, and you import and so I'm not really asking for the you know, what brand. But like what are you excited about? When you're you've seen this revolution. In in gear from the late nineties shark knows just all the stuff. That's happening talk about what you know, the gears improved. What you know when you're with your students. What wings are you excited about you know, what what are you personally flying to stuck your bit? Yeah. You know for the school. It's nice. I mean, you get you. If you're training on older glider, you're working harder. And the students not have as much success. He got five people out there. So it's really nice to get modern stuff out there with the whole rigid foil revolution thing and stuff in the leading edge going away from Mylar leading edge is so much lighter. And it's so nice for it to come up for him. So it's the, you know in it's important for the students while do well on their first couple pull ups be like, I'm pretty good at this. I can do this. If there some really I can find Sola today. My first day that's sounded. So nutty about it here is that, you know, if you're going to surf lesson you can show within two or three hours and be a Brad way for a minute. I will hear you come you show up. And it's like they're just blown after that first flight they'd got this look under face. So the gear makes different for people like that, this modern gear gets them going faster and success sooner. You know, the wait is just the coolest thing. I've just sort of started to get on that train. I got lighter pot harnessed now a lighter, and I'm like, oh, wow. This is nice. You know, in you know, Mitch was was tweaking on that stuff and punch with Rendall XL and all that stuff going on his gearing light stuff. But I think that's been a huge thing for people the designers that I've talked to France from UP what I've read heard is that the lighter stuff is better to recovery in that type of thing. So that positive. Yeah. Just nice. I think that twenty seven gram material pretty good. I'm waiting for somebody to make a light Canham. That's that's not just single surface rights. I think that'd be a hit and they're sewn there. But yeah, just the the whole the pod being pot.

01:05:05 - 01:10:10

Harms thing is really come a long way. I feel like the reserve things great tube. Just the the pot the dynamics and people are flying those. There's more people doing it. And it's just comfortable in Thun. And it feels good, you know, we're obviously not helping people jump into two things at once a new wing in a new reserve just tease something for a bit get the mode pot or get to know the wing before you're jumping into that kind of stuff. That's a consideration. The love all the gadgetry. When when we did that comp through accident Aspen back in the late nineties. I mean, we didn't we had to disposable cameras around our risk taking turns turn point taking pictures at turn points to know. You know, this is crazy. And then you know, now all these instruments. I remember the first time, you know, we got the fly tags of the GPS very honor integration with glide ratio going arrive this. By the turn point. Like, this is like cheat, man. This is crazy. So that's been fun all instruments, and it seems like the. You know, the instrument game is exploded. There's so many different brands out there and stuff like that. And there's so much going on that stuff in knowing how to work on it. That's why I mean, we've always been with the you know, flag nafter Steve crew. He's been so great service and stuff at here held us. Really good about that. But there's just so much of that. It's pretty cool the fun to see. And in the reserves, you know, people the regard the steerable reserve in these new square designs, pretty cool on Charlie's got a steerable square. Now any know my whole loss if he on the reserves after seeing what we talked about seeing over the years. They just were the whole keep it simple stupid thing. Boy to see someone coming down under one of those regards insurance pretty cool while they're kind of flying along there for sure and stuff. I haven't ever really met anybody. That's been like darn if Bill to just had a steerable reserve, he would have been okay. I'm not saying that obviously never happened. But in my experience. Just about using whatever you got get it out there. But you do notice those square designs compared to the rounds. This. The sent rake is is much better for them to come out slower and less Ossetian see that the V's for sure. People you know, they have been around for a whole long very long time. Why don't you of those make they've only been out the heavily years? You know, they see the difference. Yeah. Sure. So you had and then, you know, just the whole wing thing I stopped saying years and years ago can't possibly get any better. Just does inside think it's great that. There's so many brands out there succeeding in pushing him blow design and stuff like that. Some of these newer newer wings that that have good performance with passive safety. Given him the attention and the labor in the materials and stuff that the higher level wings have given E N D cop type Ling love to lower level wing. It's got all this performance with all his passive safety with you know, fairly mellow aspect. Ratios is pretty eye opening. It's like, wow. So the that kind of technology. Those brands is pretty exciting to see I think maybe we'll see more brands doing that. They're more expensive. Because of the labor that goes into making him. But you know, you compare an A on of those gliders to that goes about as well as the high be in. So you can't compare the price of that aid the same as compared to the glider performs like the president the reason that those costumers 'cause they're more cells. There's more labor to go into. But to see that happening in painting extra four or five hundred bucks is is at four or five hundred bucks worth having all the performance of that glider in all passive safety that comes with a people from what I'm seeing people saying on is the handling my wife was flying a high be almost see. And she to one of those today. She one of those type of gliders it's got that kind of love going into it. And she's pretty happy on it. Yeah. Yeah. Dive. Yeah. Cool. That's really cool. So. What are the things after all these years instructing flying? You know, you've seen a lot of great novices some tragedies we all have what are the things that still? He still see wasn't like if you could remove one thing from. You know, the the the most common mistake, the still see people make what is it? What could you remove, you know, if you if you can talk to every paraglider the whole world right now, and you could give them one bit of advice. What would it be good question with the top list? It's not a specific thing you have to keep your fundamentals, polished in all the best guys the best piloted, I know have been hurt doing basic fundamental things.

01:10:11 - 01:15:09

And again, it goes back to the launching the ranting blown along driven ref landing. I mean, if I'm gonna have if I'm gonna prevent people from having if that's what we're talking about risk management injuries for preventing people with the most important thing, which has demeanor mother hand only getting hurts about having fun is keeping your fundamental about portfolio. It's not just about flying issue skills in your decisions, and you know, an awareness that when you're when you're close to the ground you're in the red zone. You have to have hyper awareness. You have to be sharp. You have to be the after you know, you have to have a code. You know, you have to have a code close to the ground, and you have to code on launch not getting plucked as huge one of the three rule and being about a preflight in carrying enough break on Ford around that you're gonna be okay. And that's a pretty good solid. You're you're the percentage drop significantly there. And then on any I mean flying straight not turned close to the ground. You know, the injuries that I've had. Hurt my wrist. I mean me early on spore come compared to on motorcycle looking around like, well, it's beautiful as pretty close to train in. There is online and I quickly made things close to the termi. He not it. It always is. It's not very common to fall out the sky in half down issue. Get injured there. It's more common. If you took a poll and everybody in your community like, wow, it is we all are out stuff that has happened close to launch and landing not to say that deflation can't turn new corvette. Re don't throw are doing a three sixty two closely hill but ban the top list has to be keeping your portfolio rounded to wear your ground handling his super solid, and you realize what's important under landing. You realize what can get you on a plucking launch at partly in. And that's really I mean, it's such a huge part of it. Yeah. Because we're up there flying around. There's nothing for us to smack into as long as ready to do that. We're good. It's just it's the cornerstone of the foundation of of risk management management because it's the most stuff happens with the most stuff I've seen happening. You know when stuff happens. Nobody pays a price at great thing. It's good that it happened in a way, you know. Nobody got hurt y'all. Learn from it. Let's all talk about it. But that would have to be telling pilots of any of something. Applies to red bull athlete and some places only just got their p to getting their p two. And it's you know, we used to see people come out in our community that regret pilot who've been flying for years and the new students launched looked better than theirs, and you can tell the conditions a little cross or whatever in their up there. Just thinking manifesting just get passes launch. It's gonna be a great flight at not that's not where you should be in its. I know it's hard to sacrifice a good flying. But men get out there and start doing that stuff. And you guys how fun it is to be out of the hill plane with that stuff, and you know, the the wind soccer the hill dictates what you're gonna work on if there's no win do practice for. How long's it been since you've done a afford? If it's real windy practice, the Plugin if it's about medium than you know, maybe work on spot Lanny's. There's always something to pick depending on what that win sock is doing, you know to work out that I'm glad that. It's it's I mean, we touched on this before. But it was really interesting for me going to compete in the x Alps coming out of it. It made me realize how crit much more critical that stuck because you kinda go to phase where you're working on all that. And you're bringing the bags out of that every day, you're crazy about it. Every sledders just Ripley notes. Awesome. And then you get your not jaded. But you just you know, you start chasing the bigger days. And if it's not one hundred K day on mountain biking on you, just don't and you start not doing the forwards and you start not doing the really Harry ground handling and you start not doing enough top landing in that kind of thing. You know, like for me, you don't really work on top learning till you go to busy trip. And then you're like holy hell, I'm really bad at this. I need to learn how to plan, you know. But going to the house made me realize how many things were pretty built up. Okay. In a lot of things. Need a lot of work. He knows like. Yeah. Going back to the training hill. Go to step outside in the art Wentz blown on the flat around in the grass and fern around make things go wrong. Yeah. There's definitely some stuff for for the for the ex house that's beacon work on some at our Cheney of some it has beyond mean, that's high level stuff that you right? It's almost like you have to.

01:15:09 - 01:20:03

I mean, notice top managed the other day up in the mountains when you're up there film that thing and like that's great practice view to come in doing that. Do you do that a lot? Time all the time. I for Khanna the year before the race kinda drop the whole light, transcend it in just try to send it in five parts, you know, just just try to put it down the middle day. When it's ribbon not stuff, I would ever want to teach somebody, you know. But just learn from Honda do can launch and land off in thing cat, and that's what that race is all about, you know, if you can't do that you're gonna bomb out climbing four thousand feet, you know, where you can sit up there and wait for the series Passover relaunch an hour. Save yourself a lot of energy. You know, it may be something you are teaching some name who knows down the road five ten years from now fifteen years now people going go get with Gavin. Well, what it made me realize just the? Yeah, that's hard practice that. And in his manage get hurt practicing on doing that. So you just got it. But you gotta do it at Brexit. Yeah. On no. You know, I try to walk the walk. Not just talk the talk. And so I don't want. My students are newer pilots top landing in the mountains. I differentiate a top landing site. It's gotta be only ridge soaring in it could be near the ocean or somewhere nearby the nurse thermals mixed in. It's not a restoring soaring site anymore. You know because the whole philosophy of the red zone me when he get away from the terrain. So I don't top land unless undoing a rescue at saved for me top land. Obviously, someone you have their portfolio in the exile gotta practice. It. The rules can be bent there little bit. If the conditions are right for it. You've practiced it to top then for grabbing van drive down. I'm always the thing. It's like, hey, man. I'll take you back up the hill. You know, unless you got nailed and it's overcast and it's not windy. It's like just tried to get away from that. When we did it. So let's stay away from it type thing. And I think it's there's there's I think staying. Hole in the sport for a long period is eliminating undue risk. And but what what what the X outs does? This just scary at you. If you don't do that. You're you're you're gonna get hurt in the race. You know, because you're so tired and you don't get enough sleep. And, you know, just come in one of these things where it's funny. As course, I think is just age, and hopefully, some wisdom Becca thing, I get more more conservative. But I realized that come June. I gotta be a head space where you're invincible. You know, you just have to be like really on her games. Otherwise, you're gonna suck. You gotta be ready ready. You chose to plans them that's part of the portfolio, you leave for that. Yet. That weird stuff. Really want to encourage people. Yeah. I mean, you can get good at it on courage people who do it if they do this in practice up not try to do the trainee on introduced it only in the mountain so ability to that build up to that at an and so only ridge signed places for the students. Like, hey, and you gotta check it original site too. I mean, you go up to San dollar a Big Sur in other. Some people have been worked come in kind of scratching head why they're wrote or your sometimes it's hard to figure out. And luckily, there's pioneers that took some areas at that site. I landed the beach if there's no beach that side problem not gonna why because I'm not gonna top land there. And I so I try to conservative and set the example like I walked walk in. And I don't miss out on too much fun at all away. You know, he'll always just missing Allen intensity. After the no more of that stuff. Yeah. For sure. Well, maybe you've already answered this. But last question, and this is you've heard the punk ass dumpster even this million times. But if you could rewind the clock this be on way back for you. But if you could rewind the clock your fifty ourselves so like that first year second year something right in there. You're you're out here. You're just learning with Tom. If you could have gotten some advice, the didn't what would it be like what what what what would you change could. Knowing how it all kind of. Yeah. Good question on something that we didn't have back. Then we have now are those spots DeLores or accident dorm anymore. Garment is fly those ban to find cross country.

01:20:03 - 01:25:08

You gotta have one of those now down. I mean, it's so cool. But that's not really something that was available then but. You know, I tell myself just to I didn't put myself in a position of Slough. It's different for everybody. Some people need a bit in the mouth, some people need to be encouraged. You know, but I do have situations where you know, one bad decision. Turns into cascade about decisions. So always always have a plan. A which means always get to a landing zone in that can be landed on the smallest bushes around. It's like just always make sure you keep a spot to land within reach and not put yourself be thinking ahead on that always have planet. You know, taken off for flay every flight it's like there's the landings on if I don't hit he lift. And if I happen to get a climb than I thought about plan b but as I get low plant as I got a new plant if I'm not in that area. But just not getting to a point where you are. Doing rash decisions just diving in places when you're green that's gonna come. And a lot of I learned a lot of that stuff just fallen through acts for years the the team that was here fallen him around was just like really we're going here. And you know, it's like you figure out that it works. You figure out what some doesn't work can usually worked with him. But learning from those guys in flying with mentors. It's like I would teen. Fly not alone. That's one of the things I told myself sure as a as is, you know, part of the reward. This sport is is making decisions and flying far reward is proof is in the pudding. Dude, you flew over one hundred miles or you did this great flight in, you know, sometimes even on cop tasks is like you arrive at the end of the day, the guys that you were with made it you didn't you're like man, I should stuck with those guys. So there's a time when you gotta kinda sounds. Like discipline. Yeah. Exactly. Gotta have disciplined. You gotta you gotta use use the team. You know, be be part of that in. You know, you gotta take your lead out of the climb was fined Mark next lift. But why with other people stick with stick with other people don't be in a rush? You know, greasy calls the big brain. It's like stick with the big brain. And there's a lot of there's a lot of smart people in that thermal so fly with people that's Gerland, man. Dr debate your personality all taken me years to get that one on news. Not. Warded and you've made the right decision. And if you're in the flow or the groove, or whatever you go that way, sometimes it, but man, you're going to get so much more out of slow on your wall and sticking with the crew in sticking with the team and team flying, especially in the flats. But yeah, that's a fifty our pilots out. You don't know everything? Pretty good. You don't know everything? Not always, right. It's like by. The other thing about that. Is that when you do that? Yes. The sheriff the end of the day, whereas before you're like thinking about it in debriefing yourself. If you take the time to do that. I mean, you're actually you're definitely reflecting on those fun moments. The day whether the low save or climb got really high, but to be able to talk about those moments with a group of people share. We saw them do stuff. You get more. Do you know we really try to teach that on our tours? We try to teach the team flying because you're just gonna go further and do better. Learn more with the team then was saying that last night on the way home because he had a wicked flight, you know, any he landed at wouldn't say bombed out. It was just like manna glider at this way. Too much win made a really good call basically and landed out than that the one move back and got back to the truck and chases down and on the way back. You know, rather Snyder dislike then we did that. And we did that. To learn more from these retrieves like everybody should do retrieves all the times, I'm learned so much from this. You know, and it's exactly that's that's that's a good thing. Volunteer for that's that's what can happen community. Exact if people are hungry for we try to the new people like head. It's not really flyable of for you today. But Dr you're going to be site who buy beer, you can get all this stuff and that such a part of again going back to that community thing. There's so much. Extra gravy than everybody gets just being in that in that van and pod of information in energy going up the hill, the sto- can everybody's talking about the laughs rate with this all the weather think where we going today and a new pilots is going.

01:25:08 - 01:27:59

This is cool and his listening. He's asking questions you just listening to conversations like been listening to you guys talk about today sharing sharing it. So that's that's something. I definitely tell by fifty our pilot, you should still do retreat, and you should team plans to being alone will sure. Rob, thanks, man. Super honor. Very special in backyard specialist see you and appreciate that. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me on thanks for taking the time to put this together. It's the same kind of future looming thing I'm talking about with respect to the cracker sauce mayhem. I mean, this is where it's at and thanks for taking the time to do it. It's huge for an union. It's global it's beautiful. I won't stop listening manages create keep going and good luck in Europe that you anti vantage. But hope to see your next winter got it all I will year figure out how to afford this place here. They span ratio. The money. Hope you enjoyed that. Always phone to sit down with these great pilots in different parts of the world super inspiring. As always all we ask for a bucket show. If you're getting something out of the cloud base, ma'am, there, many ways, you can support it either financially through pay pal and soon to be directly through our website. We'll have details of that up pretty soon. But if you can't spores financially totally understand this main free as long as we can do it, but you can support it in many other ways, you can give us on a rating on itunes or Stitcher, or how ever you listen to your podcast that really goes a long ways, you can blog about it on your own blog post about it on social media share with your friends talk about it on the way to launch a no many, many of you doing that. Appreciate it. And another way he can sport us through our store. We just got a whole new load of awesome, Patagonia, t shirts for men and women and a whole new box of superstar. The trucker hats by recaps H one is totally unique. Make got a whole bunch more colors that seem to be more in favor. So go to cloud base may dot com. Click on the store link and get some cool swag. That's another great way to sports show. But yeah, get behind us doing this directly just through you sponsors because I just can't stand having that whole sponsor at the top of the show. And I want you to know that it's a authentic conversation. It's just opinions and they're not being skewed by advertising dollars, which I think is pretty toxic things happening going on right now globally with all stuff going on, Facebook, and and other. So anyway, we'd like to do direct. We appreciate your sport. And see on the next one. Cheers.