Episode 45- Chrigel Maurer and becoming an Eagle

Chrigel launches during the 2017 Red Bull X-Alps

Chrigel Maurer is the undisputed king of paragliding and after his 5th straight X-Alps win I get the feeling that he’s just getting started. Chrigel was the World Cup champion 3 times, is an acro champion, test pilot for Advance, two times winner of the X-Pyr, regularly dominates the Swiss League and just simply wins- over, and over and over again. Everyone has heard of Chrigel’s famous training (ground handling in VERY strong wind, flying in the lee of cornices…) but most don’t know the extent of how hard and specifically he trains. How much is talent versus persistence? How does Chrigel justify the risk? How does he approach safety? How is getting older affecting his decisions? How important is physical fitness to good flying? Is the X-Alps even risky for Chrigel? His sons, aged 6 and 9 are beginning to fly- does this make him nervous? Where does he get his motivation from? In this episode we dive into what makes Chrigel…an Eagle. How does he fly so straight? What mistakes do other pilots make? What separates him from the rest of the pilots in the race? How does he make his decisions? How does planning and calculated decision making happen in the air and how much is intuition? Does he have weaknesses and if so how does he resolve them? How Chrigel reduces risk and how other pilots can be much safer. The power of optimism and the need for gambling (safely).

For me this was an opportunity of a lifetime, to sit down with someone who consistently shows us what is possible with a glider and makes us dream of the possibilities.

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Show Notes:

  • Chrigel talks about his training, what goes into the lead-up to the X-Alps and other adventure races?
  • Mental vs physical training and what sets him apart from the others
  • Is there more pressure on Chrigel now?
  • How does Chrigel make his amazing route decisions in the race?
  • How he trains mentally and visualizes winning.
  • Finding magic lines
  • Using the lee
  • Analyzing mistakes
  • How he eliminates or reduces risk and how pilots can be much safer
  • Balancing the risk and reward and how you need to gamble…but smartly
  • The power of optimism
  • How to fly more efficiently and how to gauge the day- planning in flight
  • How to fly straight instead of thermalling and gliding
  • How hard to push?
  • What would Chrigel do differently if he could rewind the clock?
  • What is the most important thing to improve? How to optimize what you do to achieve your personal goals?
  • Mentioned in this episode: Ben French, Pal Takats, Skywalk, Advance, Gaspard Petiot, Sebastien Huber, Benoit Outters, Michael Maurer,

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Speaker 1: 00:00:01 [inaudible].
Speaker 1: 00:00:08 Hi there everybody. Welcome to another episode of the cloud base mayhem. This is by far the most requested guest we've ever had. The great Kriegel Mauer just won his fifth straight X Alps, uh, three times world champion acro champions when the X pier dull immediate man, you name it, this guy crushes. He is the undisputed King of our sport. Uh, the best pilot the sport has ever had probably ever will have a, I always call him the Kelly Slater of paragliding. Uh, this was just an amazing opportunity to sit down with him. We were planning on doing it in Monaco at the end of the race, but of course a very few people made it to Monica this time. It was, it was actually quite reassuring to get on the phone with Kriegel tonight and see that he looks a lot like, I feel this race broke a lot of folks.
Speaker 1: 00:01:02 In fact, most of us knows a really hard go and it was good to see that it even crushed somebody like Kriegel even he had to do just a ton of time, ground miles and ground game. Before we get into this, uh, amazing talk, uh, stick with me here for a second. Got a few things at housekeeping. Uh, number one, sorry for the gap. Uh, we, I was planning on sitting down with Powell Tackett's, which I am doing here in the next couple of days, uh, for a show that we were going to release during the race that we were going to line up before the gun went off in Salzburg. But we didn't get a chance to do that cause the pre week before the race was pretty hectic and the weather was terrible. And so I just didn't get a chance to do that. So I apologize for the, the big gap here, but excited to bring you this show.
Speaker 1: 00:01:48 Are certain coming back with a bang. Nate scales in Nate for the last couple of years has been running when he's called, calling them inner mountain wide open. Uh, those of you in Nevada, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah. Uh, I say Montana. Yeah. Uh, you, we've got this kind of open friendly cops. Not really comp, but it's just a means to get people together. Starts July 29th and August 13th. So that's two weeks and three weekends. It's basically your best four scores on X contest. And uh, and then we get together for the final weekend and all fly together. But you can fly whenever you want and uh, in, in any of those zones. And, uh, you put up your score and it's just fun. It's 100 bucks to enter. It's a very good chance of winning a whole bunch of that money back. Uh, the last couple of years it has been an absolute blast. We've gotten insanely good weather.
Speaker 1: 00:02:39 Uh, so if you want to come out to the Rocky mountains and get really super tall and fly some big lines with the great folks that are really stoked, um, I invite you to reach out to me or Nate. Uh, you can get hold of me via email and I'll put you in the right direction. He doesn't spend a lot of time on social media, so this isn't something we really put out there. But if you're in the zone, I highly recommend it. It's been a blast last couple of years. So if you're not at the Canadian gnats or doing something else, um, come join us for the inner mountain wide open. Uh, we're gonna do another little giveaway. Uh, uh, one of the podcast fans, a guy named Ben French down New Zealand. He makes these really cool, uh, ni acro GoPro mounts. Uh, it's not really accurate, but they're just GoPro mounts for your knee that are great for training and for observing what you're doing in SIV or Acura or whatever they're called, windy mounts.com.
Speaker 1: 00:03:29 He's given me four of those, so I'm going to give three of them away, or maybe even four, cause I'm now using the Garmin. So, and we'll do it like we did last time for the, uh, for the garb for the dorm and for the, uh, blue sky. Berio whoever puts out the best a rating on iTunes or Stitcher or however you listen to the podcast, or maybe if you share it on social media, uh, just send me how you've shared it, if you do it in some kind of cool or funny way. And I'll pick out the four that I liked the best. Uh, we'll do that, let's say at the end of August and uh, send you one of these mounts. They're really cool. They're really well put together. So, uh, yeah, give us a rating on, on any of those, however you listen to your podcast.
Speaker 1: 00:04:12 And that just helps spread the word. Uh, another little thing is a Patrion. We, we have this way of supporting the show where you kind of set it and forget it and it's all on us to produce content. Each time we produce content you get billed at whatever level you decide to support us at, whether that's a dollar or $3 or $5, just got these beautiful t-shirts and he's cloud-based, may tee shirts and killer trucker hats. Uh, get some cool schwag there. One of these days I'll be finishing my book some other. Anyway, you get rewarded for supporting us on Patrion. And one of the things we're going to do here with a future show, uh, is someone's going to interview me about the X apps. We've been getting a lot of requests for that and don't have the interviewer yet. Maybe we'll do Nate or farmer, somebody here in town and just talk about X apps.
Speaker 1: 00:04:59 And I'm going to put that out exclusively to those who support the show. This is a listener support podcast. Uh, expenses are mounting, those of you who support us. Thank you so much. And those of you who don't, this is a little urge or nudge to get involved. And so we're going to put that out just to the Patrion supporters or those of you who have supported us through, through PayPal in the past. And so that'll just go out to just the folks that are supporting to me a fun show. We'll put that out here in the next couple of weeks and uh, yeah, should be a blast, I think splashed. Anyway, talking about the [inaudible], this was a crusher of an event. We had really terrifically bad weather, broke a lot of guys and uh, but just the complete blast. Kriegel and I talk about the ex ops quite a bit in this show.
Speaker 1: 00:05:45 We also talk about risk. I put out this morning, uh, that I was going to be having him on the show. And you, our listeners gave me tons of great questions. I asked as many as I could, I promise if I didn't get that in there, I apologize. But we did cover a ton of ground. Uh, really talked a lot about safety. Um, what he's learned over the years. He does a lot of coaching at home and we talk about, you know, what he want, kind of valuable stuff. He's passing along, climbing, gliding and planning and competitions and some of the things, not all, but some of the things that make Kriegel Kriegel this was just a really humbling experience. I'm very thankful to have his time. Uh, that's terrific talk. You're going to dig it. You're going to learn a lot and it's going to inspire you to get out there and train. Without further ado, please enjoy God. I did enjoy this conversation with Kriegel Mauer Kriegel this is a
Speaker 2: 00:06:44 even a little bit scary to have you on the show. You're by far the most requested guest and I'm sorry we couldn't do this in person in Monaco. Um, but thank you so much for coming on. Uh, the mayhem, it was fabulous to compete with you. Uh, sort of compete with again, uh, in the, in the [inaudible], uh, just a week ago. I think we wrapped that up and, uh, it's, it's just fantastic to get the opportunity to talk to you. So first of all, congratulations with a fifth, unprecedented, amazing, incredible to watch when, uh, I know we're both, uh, just looking at you, are you, you look like, I feel, I know we're both pretty tired, but, uh, congratulations. Just an awesome effort and you must be really psyched.
Speaker 3: 00:07:28 Yeah. Gavin [inaudible] this and uh, yeah, it was great. And nice to hear you again. Yeah, I'm very tight now. It's still, um, after one week, but uh, I recover fast and I hope to be ready for training in two weeks. I think.
Speaker 2: 00:07:46 So you've already got your eyes on the next one.
Speaker 3: 00:07:49 Yeah, there is some next competitions and I like to train a more hard, more fast to be ready for the short and fast, uh, competitions like telemeter monk. But, uh, yeah, it's a kind of competition. We tie can fly but in a, in a very short time, the race, it's their own. So 30 minutes it's completely different to the XL. But the annex challenge,
Speaker 2: 00:08:16 let's get into it. I have some I put out that I was going to be talking to you this morning on Facebook. Got some great questions that the temptation for me, like I said before we started recording is just to ask about the X helps cause it fascinates me and you, you just dominate it. It's watching you perform theirs is really exceptional. So I do have some ex ops questions, but then we'll transition to, you know, I know you're doing a lot of coaching and guiding and uh, I, I really want to tap into some of that knowledge so we can spread some of that. But first, just, just some Excel stuff that I think people are curious about. One thing is your wing choice. You know, you, you have moved through many manufacturers and I understand before this race, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you were, you were trying quite a few different wings. What's your methodology there? Why, uh, and why do you choose a three liner? I think in every act SOPs you've thrown, flown a three liner. Obviously your, your wing of choice when you're competing and flying in the Alps is two liners. So why the three liner for the race and why did you end up with the skywalk?
Speaker 3: 00:09:25 For sure he's was, um, for me it was important to have the right wing. It was, uh, very interesting to see what's on the market. And then finally I choose the three lines skywalk because, um, it was the best compromise and say, um, in, in performance, in safety, in, in Fung. When I fly a two liner, I can feel, um, a lot of performance. But only when I'm really in a good shape. It means I'm doing one day, 10 hours. It's okay. But then the race, like X hubs, after some days I get so tired that the icon, um, have a benefit of the, of the performance of the tool line. So it means it's more important to, to feel comfortable on the wing and to have more performance. And now there is, um, uh, since three additions of Excel, they fly with two liners and the best result of a two liner was rank four, I think.
Speaker 3: 00:10:30 And there was no to landed on the podium. So it shows that that the performance average of the, uh, of the two liner, it's not important in the adventure race. And, uh, I, I tried out, for example, um, to take off in strongly in conditions to land in very small spots. Um, and I, I never feel really comfortable on a two liner because the performance, it's just too much and I, I have more possibilities on the treeline there. Um, so I can feel better even when I'm on the limit when entire. And this finally was for me, the position could have a tree treeline wing. And finally the [inaudible] from this table cross the wing. It was finished in, in my, in my, I did my first, uh, two competitions, pre competitions before the [inaudible]. Um, so it was to complete this twing that the finish ring. Um, finally, um, there was more than more than three wings, treeline rings and uh, yeah, I chose one in my, um, I think it was a good decision because the performance was good, stability was perfect and I'm also, the handling was cold to fly. Um, for me it was a great, the equipment
Speaker 2: 00:12:04 I read, uh, you and I talked about this a little bit in the, in the press conference when we did that in 2015, but I read the really, you know, for the physical side of the training, you kind of aim for 30,000 meters a month, uh, to run up to the [inaudible]. Um, a little about the mental side of things. W one of the things that I know that is very different for you is some of the athletes just because they have to do it because they have jobs or they don't have the time. But when we sat next together in the press conference, I said it w what, what parts of the course have you been flying and learning? And you said, no, I don't do that at all before the race. Uh, you know, I like to because it's so different in may and June than it is in July. I like to go in and see it with fresh eyes and fly it on the day, which really surprised me. I don't know why it surprised me knowing it's you, but it's, you know, what would you have that same approach if it was in a place that you don't know, like say if you were doing an X Alps in the States or something or somewhere where you haven't flown, would you still do it that way?
Speaker 3: 00:13:08 Oh, we was really testing a lot of, of uh, uh, moving before we did the first [inaudible] and then it was the first edition and we was just not possible to visit all the places. So we tried to train as good as possible at home and then found out that the, um, it's working quite as well. And finally I was, uh, competing in the pureness and the experience and we've us not able to, to, to stay there to visit it any places. And it also works well. And finally, I have an example from this year edition, um, because there was the tone point tool in Slovenia and it was, I never must there, but I had some questions and I was asking, um, I think 10 or 12 teams, um, they was on this turn point and they was not able to answer my question because one day say, Oh, I was there and that was flying so good.
Speaker 3: 00:14:15 I was 1000 meter, both the other size I was there, but this was not fly, but it was cloudy. I have no idea that the third says, okay, I was there but it was snow. So I have no idea. So it means there was 10 teams that was there, but no of them had a idea how it is or the other example is, um, uh, the term 0.5 got de like luck. But then, um, [inaudible], um, all the people that they talk to me, they say it's not possible to fly to the turn point because of the value breeze of the stability. It never will be possible. And on that day when I flew there, I never flew there before and that day it was just weak value breeze. So it was possible to fly until the close to the turn point. And not only for me it was also fly blue forecast car and it was because the valid breeze was was unusually soft. And this shows that when you know a place very well, that in the race it's going to be different and then you have no benefit. It's still Pacific. Do you have a program?
Speaker 2: 00:15:36 Yeah. These preconceived notions that aren't correct.
Speaker 3: 00:15:39 Exactly. And so this was one point which I say, um, it's not the efficient tool to check all the points and don't point. It's clearly that the them, the race was in a new route and this new places, it was very interesting for me to see and that was really motivated to, to see all the places very new. So it gives me the motivation to do the race for a fifth time. Um, it, it was like, uh, I was, I feel like a chai that they can at these covert devote. And it was a great feeling also this addition to have a new new places and to have more takes of the of the ups no. As it was a good motivation to have no idea before.
Speaker 2: 00:16:37 Yeah. What is your, what is your year look like in, in a run up to the Xcel in terms of preparation? We've all heard these crazy stories about how um, exacting your training is, but also how experimental, you know, you have this, there's a video of you launching in the X pier and just these crazy wins, everybody seems fantastic. And then you just walk up and there's another pilot who's, you can tell there's no way they're going to launch ya and you, you just do this incredible launch. But I've heard of you, you know, testing out rotor behind cornices, you know, in the snow. So if you crash it would be safe. And I've heard, you know, ground handling and 60 kilometers an hour when, I mean one are these true cause we've all heard them but also is, is that really, um, are you doing a lot of that kind of thing in preparation for the [inaudible] and anticipation of just flying in, in terrible conditions? Is that, is that, is that because of the X apps or is that just how you train?
Speaker 3: 00:17:38 No, I think, I know West test pilot for other ones, I was really often on the limit because there was a, it was just my job. And after, um, I really like to, to check my limit or the limits of my equipment, um, as long as I feel good, I go forward. So, um, when I feel bad because of conditions or myself, I have to stop and turn it around and, and know that when I want to compete in a hard race, I really have to, to train Howard to be ready and as hard tried train as, uh, easier. It is in the race, it means, um, flying in, in, in, in, in wind conditions. They are our own 50. Um, that it's, it's very hard to handle, but when it's them a little bit less, it means when the about 40, it feels like easy. And when I can try to take off in a strong wind conditions and when I can do this in a, in the snow, then it means that I have more safety when something is wrong and when I can, um, do this often and I know how to manage. I can do this in a race, in a, in a, in a normal titles, it means to train even harder than it'd have to be in the race. It's my goal.
Speaker 2: 00:19:12 D is mental training part of your program too? Because I know we talked before the race about Thomas and I know it was a sports psychologist and uh, you know, is there, are there things you do for your head before something like the excess or, or maybe even before, uh, you know, when you were doing a lot more competing in world cups and you had your, you know, you had the three time world champion. Is there, are there, are there very, are there things you do, cause I know your physical training is incredibly rigorous. We just talked about some of the things you do for flying, other things you do.
Speaker 3: 00:19:48 Yeah. I think it's, it's, it's twice. It's two points. One point is this, I that I do this automatically, so it means I not do a special training for my head, but I really do a lot of dreaming, dreaming how I can sly, how I can win the race, how I can do crazy things like aerobatic maneuvers. I was dreaming about infinity tumbling. And after I, I was able to fly it for example, and they said too often in the night. So it's a natural thing. I do. Um, no, I, I had some, some, um, yeah, I'm uh, thinking about a fish edition for myself. Is it, is it smart as a, as a father to do this again and to fight hard to in the nature. And then I was thinking some points of which, which, um, motivates me to, to do it right.
Speaker 3: 00:20:54 And when I was in, uh, in the week before the race in, fortunately I got sick because a cold and I was not feeling good and they really was on the, on the cone or on the boards or to think about, um, I think it's over. I have no trends against the elders. And finally there was, there was just, uh, the mental training to, to think about my strengths. So I was thinking about the last additions and I think about the nice pouch in the race and I really read them down to have paper in front of me and I can see, okay, my strengths are the flying. Um, the nice parts are the adventure to sunrise, to sunset, uh, the team's spirit to be out in the nature but have a team with me and all these nice things. And I think does this a part of mental training, which I did. Um, especially for the race in this year edition, especially because I was sick and, uh, not thinking about anything and that, that helps me a lot. And so I was on the, on the Sunday, I wasn't ready to start. And after some hours in the race, I could, I could really focus on the race and there was no thinking about problems. So all the things was away and that wasn't really focused in the race. And I wasn't really happy to feel this change from the week before and to the race.
Speaker 2: 00:22:36 Is there more pressure on you now or less? Do you, when you, when you come into you after winning it four times going into the fifth time or are you more nervous or less nervous or you do get nervous?
Speaker 3: 00:22:51 And it was funny that often, one time after the first when it was less pressure because I said, okay, I will know the right day. So the other half too, and this time it was a bit more pressure because I really liked to have five like, uh, by fingers and that it must something like, like, um, yeah. Um, I won't force so why not the fifth? But I also was once agreed that they are young, strong, uh, athletes. I go to older and older and yeah, it's a long route and I have to be really in a good shape. But after, I think two days when I was in the front, if the feeling came that I can do it. So the pressure was away and, and I, I to enjoy the race and the pressure was really in the pre-req infomercial. It was quite big because I, it doesn't feel good. And, uh, I really want to win. And, and, and after two days, three days, uh, it was a way, and I think it's, it's, it was really a good feeling. And also I w I was a bit relaxed and they could do better positions and it was great to feel. And the second day I feel that I really can win the race.
Speaker 2: 00:24:19 Are you, I imagine not. I mean I, you, you're, you're always out front. So maybe this is something you don't have much experience with. But, um, I know, I know for me, I, I start to become greatly influenced by what you and other pilots have done in front of me because I can see, Oh, this line worked or that line doesn't work. But in some ways that goes against what you were talking about in the beginning because that's a different day. It's a different time. It's a different time of the day. Are you, are you influenced by what other pilots are doing? Um, clearly you are in like a world cup, um, because everybody's doing the same thing. But are you or are you just kinda on your own?
Speaker 3: 00:25:02 It was funny. I had a lot of fans of pilots. They, we sit me because of the life trucking, they found Basie and they really talk to me how, how I have to do which trail I have to go, which launch I have to go, which line I have to fly. And I was really listening on them. But finally I had to take my own decision and sometimes it was different what they say. And sometimes I feel mad because people want to help me and I do. It doesn't do this. And then I think it's really important to do the next step. Exactly. What do you feel it's the best step? Because to do something, what's the other date? Um, can be helpful because you know that it's possible to go and then it's a good feeling and you can do the step. But if you think about, okay shit, I like to do something else, but before the other, this, this, I have to do this also.
Speaker 3: 00:26:08 And I think then the feeling is not the best and then it's not the best to do it. But then, for example, on the second day I was a bit in the middle and older, older, the guys in front, they went to the [inaudible] Valley in to the South and some of them, they went into the, to the left of pill to fly. And I, my support told me that, that they do this, so maybe I have to do the same. And then I was thinking, why they do this? It makes no sense to me. So I had to, let's go to the, to the right, to the yes. And finally it was a perfect decision, but I don't know why. It was just, just I'm feeling ahead. Um, let's go to the, to the good side of the sun, um, to, to go in the middle of two Alice cycles, which the while it maybe, and afterwards the wind was perfect to switch to LA and it was a perfect move on the, I don't know why I did this but I don't in the moment I was not realized or, or not thinking about to do the same what the order do because it in my eyes it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: 00:27:33 That was, that was actually the next question I was going to ask you. We were watching that move, you know, I'd pulled my night pass cause we'd, we'd been told that the weather was going to be a lot better on the South than it do a Swiss. When we got up to that, that coal of Huber, it was terrible and you know, it was unwilling and really bad and it was a waste of the of it. I wish I would've gotten later cause I maybe would have been smart and followed you, but I just did a such a smart move and now I wanted to, I like, I think, I think a lot of the teams, um, you know, their, their supporters are really helping identify launches and, and finding out the weather and passing that along. How much or how much are you relying on Tobias or your team to find launches versus you or are you, are you, are you picking out the places to go or, uh, and, and I'm going to tag on one question that too. What, what resources are you using? If you're comfortable, you don't have to spill the beans, but, um, are you using other than your team?
Speaker 3: 00:28:34 Yeah. Our strategy was that the team was watching out for four takeoffs. It means I had two guys at home. They checked in Google Googlers, um, and I can go and they, they was able to send me some tracks, which I can import in my mobile phone to navigate. And my supporter, Toby was checking these tracks or these routes if it makes sense. Or if he's, if he says, okay, it looks good, um, I import and then I go do this, I follow this track. But them finally there was always, um, the goal to have information of my team and when I feel in my stomach what to do, then it was the best. So the final decision I took myself and ultimately there was a gamble, you know, it's, uh, it's another in, in the dementia race. It's, it's never clear what it's the best to do or what's the best next step.
Speaker 3: 00:29:44 But it was those two guys. They was helping me and then know how they work, how they think. And finally I did a decision, yeah. Which I was not really sure that it works, but it was maybe a decision which was the best motivation because, um, when I went to the South for a month and honed the way to forecast for a French part was not so good. And I really wanted to go to the French part because it's flyable. Normally it's very efficient in India, but it's 100 kilometer more. And the weather forecast was bad. So I had to go the straight line following Italy and I really hide the flat of the Italy part.
Speaker 2: 00:30:34 Yeah, it's terrible.
Speaker 3: 00:30:35 But there was so many signs that it's going to be better on the [inaudible] part, but they had to go this route. And finally I found my, my motivation that I say, okay, I did four times X helps in the French side and now I will covert the [inaudible] part. And this, this, um, idea gives me a good motivation to go full speed in Italy. But I really was, I'm thinking about for two or three hours in the rice, why? To go to Italy because it's bullshit. It's flat, it's not flyable it's, it's horrible. And then I found, um, okay, I have to go there because I never was there before. And then, yeah, this, this idea gives me the motivation to go to Italy. And finally the older like, um, Ben wa and Paolo, they was following me and I thought, okay, it's a good decision.
Speaker 2: 00:31:38 Yeah. Yeah. Tell me just Deb, we'll take a break from the seriousness. Tell me about the flight where you got blown out of the mountains. You had thousands and thousands of people, including myself watching that going, Holy shit, he's just hit airspace. This is good. It's going to be so interesting if he hits that airspace. And you just did this little kink of a move just around that CTR. I was, I can't imagine doing that flying in a hundred K an hour. But it was that, was that really scary or was that air not too bad.
Speaker 3: 00:32:08 It was a crazy day. It was the others say it must have excelled stay in the five additions, which I am making the less than the minimum distance. And after, after this flight, it was eight hours of competition in the day and the most just 20 K and, and this was so horrible. And the problem was that in the morning, um, the first takeoff was in the cloud and then I sought to continue the rich to go higher and higher, maybe to have the wind for soaring and then they can, um, Tom the storms more than the forecast days. Um, I was waiting in the storm for one more than one hour, then they'd go up to the next top. And the wind was from, um, more than from South West than from Northwest. There was many different, um, compared to the forecast. And then it took off in the West and that boom out.
Speaker 3: 00:33:16 So I had to walk up again, 200 meters. And then they launched, I'm into the other side in the li and then I bombard out again. And after the next 600 minutes of climate, there was perfect wind. And that took off. And immediately after the takeoff, I felt, okay, this was a mistake. It's so hard wind. And the decline was for me to S everywhere. And in the West, the next storm came and I really wanted to fly into the, to the Valley to go into the abs, to, to the West part. But after this, um, I think the first five minutes for me, it was clear it's, it's too dangerous. And then I turned around first I was spiraling down to have less wind in the, in the Valley town, but even 500 meters lower, there was strong wind. And then I decided to go out in the flat to, to stay safe, just to stay safe.
Speaker 3: 00:34:23 And then I turned around and it was 1995 in trim speeds. I was flying full speed to have more than 100 and it was crazy that they flew out 17K and in this 17 K I might two K direction monarchal so it was, it was a flight, like a, like a, it was for nothing. And then was walking up for, for four hours, four and a half hours and bone bout four, two times. And finally the flight was 17K and they made 10K direction. We're not so horrible. Worse, worse than us letter. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And, and finally I was thinking about, um, why I did such a mistake and for sure the metaphor POS was different, but finally it was just to try to have the possibility to fly and then it was a little worse. And for sure walking was better.
Speaker 3: 00:35:28 But what about them? My strengths is to fly. And so it's, it's the game. So try always to do the best and if it's a post food more than you do invoke and yeah, often eight hours of competing this day I was really afraid and I really want to push on the ground. And then in the next five I did 40 K on the ground and finally it was, it was 50K and a 50, 58 or something on the day. Really bad day. But I think there was a really good feeling to make all the good decisions. You know, when, when you, when you do it smart, it's um, a good feeling to, to end today, but when you have to really to push into two around then it's not a good feeling. And yeah, it was a hard day in the slat after and I was totally tired, but, uh, it was crazy experience and I think it's good to make this experience once in five year or five additions
Speaker 2: 00:36:41 even. You have to make some mistakes sometimes, but yeah, no, that was fascinating to watch. I was, I was not, not envying you as you were getting blown out of there. Anytime you're flying a hundred K can be a little nerve wracking. Um, okay. Couple of quick questions are more of the X hops and then we'll, we'll switch gears here. But these two are, I really do want to ask you, um, in the 2013 race when you had the really good weather, I think I have destroyed it. And if I'm wrong again, correct me, but you had a really, I understand you had a, a really scary flight, uh, over the [inaudible] and when you landed near your house and you were quite emotional and I think it was, it was really a great, I think for, for many pilots around the world to hear that even Kriegel it's scared. Um, and, and I just want to know, you know, we all get scared flying at some point. Uh, what do you do with your, your fear, how do you, how do you manage it? And then, and then also, you know, you showed me these beautiful videos of your kids learning how to fly, uh, before the race when we were in, in Salzburg before the gun went off. Uh, and they give a six year old and his and 10,
Speaker 3: 00:37:55 seven and nine,
Speaker 2: 00:37:55 seven and nine. Yeah, you're in there. They're learning how to fly, which I thought was so cool. But so, so T I guess two questions. How do you manage the fear and then also how do you justify the, the flying with your and with your kids and does it make you nervous that they're learning how,
Speaker 3: 00:38:13 yeah, it sounds crazy, but when I do crazy things or the competition, like house, I really focus on the moment, on my, on my own or on or on my problems. And there is nothing else. Um, so I say when, when I as long I can focus really on this, on the problem or on the effect, um, I couldn't compete. But when I start to think about other things or about my family, I have to think about, stop to do competitions because then it starts to be danger. So this one part, and I think the other part is that that in, in when I was young, I realized no, 10 years after I realized that when I was young, I really risk all the time. I take risk in all the flights just to have fun. And now I realize that it's not smart and I tried to risk only when it, when it can gain, when it kind of wins something so I can have less risk during the year or during the flights.
Speaker 3: 00:39:27 And also in the, in the competition I tried to risk only when it really needs, um, or when they can wait and some things. So, um, as often I, I come, I tried to, to fly like, uh, with more safety to, to have less risk. And when I know that I have to risk in the moment, I do this really focused and it helps me to, to, to be more safe I think because, um, to fly and to think about no risk, it's more dangerous than to fly and to know that it's risky. I think with all the experience I might now, I can, I can feel better when it's on the limit. When I was young, I never feel that it's on the limit or did I do something wrong? I always think about everything. It's okay. And now with all the experience, I, I feel when it's dangerous.
Speaker 3: 00:40:34 And so I say during a day and there is so moments that are really dangerous, but all the other moments, it's not dangerous. So I have, or I tried to switch the focus. It means when it's not danger, I can relax. And when it's dangerous or it starts to build an interest, I can really focus on the moment. And that was two or three times, um, really in a, in a bad situation. It was, um, when I come to Switzerland, um, in the afternoon there was very windy on the South and it pushed me down to a whole, uh, there was some kind of North fund and it was really turbulent on the ground and I realized that the lending now will be really risky, but I had always no other choice. And then there I'm looking for the biggest field and that was spiraling down like a ground spiral because of as long I stay in a spider, I had for a lot of pressure and, and I'm more resistant against the gusts.
Speaker 3: 00:41:48 What this grown spiral, I was really, um, focused to, to land safe. And when I landed it was not too much wind. But after when I packed the wing, that was cost about 50, 55 maybe, and I realized, okay, this was also a bit of luck to clap, no problems. But, um, yeah, the same was on the second day when I took off in the, in the East side of the, uh, outs in the, in the South of the UBS, it was thrown Northwind and they realized that the start, it's the most difficult part of the flight to fly away. And then in the wind, it's not the problem, but the take off will be danger. And there was little strong wind but turbulent downwind. And I really was waiting there for 10 minutes to understand how is the wind, what's going on with the costs and how often they come, how fast, how turbulent they can be.
Speaker 3: 00:42:57 And then I was really waiting for a good moment and then it took off. So it means to realize that it's a dangerous, that the interest situation and then to, to, to check, um, how, what's going to be the problems or what I can do that it's most safety and the domestic goal. And finally it was working well and this was a really typical situation. Um, when I know that if I can go in the air, I really can win a lot because often I was really fast in the front because of this thing. And I know that, that the point is, it's not easy that the takeoff is very riskful, but if it works for sure, it's, um, very efficient. And so I, I tried to switch during the day, during the race between, um, relaxing, enjoying and really focusing, concentrating on the, on the, on the race
Speaker 2: 00:44:04 critical. When you, when you look back at the, at the five wins, and I know you're humble. I man, this is, this is a point in question. This might be difficult to answer. Uh, there's, I think there's, there's all the obvious things that we can all point to, but if you could narrow it down to three things, what, what are the three things that you most have that the rest of us don't? The, you know, when, as the days go by, it just gets harder and harder to reel you in because of these decisions like at the guest hall. Um, and being able to fly in that strong for uh, you know, it was a really amazing move and you talk about it being a gut move and kind of intuition something that just feels good. But is there, you know, maybe this is something you've been able to identify when you're doing your coaching as well, but like what, what are the, what are the pieces of this chess game that you're playing better than the rest of us?
Speaker 3: 00:45:05 It says, it's interesting. I think that my experience of the competition is, it's very helpful and to experience when I was young and when I tried, when I ground handled the wing in, in when it was 10, 12, I started to grow in tandem with the wing of my father and I was too young. I was 14, 15. I started to, to fly a little and that really play a lot with my wing. And I think that this feeling of, of this part of life, it was really, um, it helps me to get a good feeling. And yeah, for sure. It's, it's all of this experience together, which, which, which you need on this adventure. But we discuss a lot about what's, what's the difference? And I think I, I like to gamble. So it means to take a decision and to follow this to the end if it's good or not.
Speaker 3: 00:46:11 The most important is to follow, to do what, what I really feel is the best and then to take some decisions and which are the best case. It's very efficient and the universe case it's really bad, but to, to find the, the, the, um, the balance between the risk and how, uh, good is the chance that it works. I think that it's always a gamble. And I really liked to gamble and most of the athletes, they, they don't want to risk, they really want to go safe step by step to Monaco. And I think in an adventure it's just not possible to go always with the best decision always with, with no risk. I mean sportive risk not, not about safety, I mean about if it's flyable or if it's, um, nice to, to, to be there. Um, yeah, it's, it's the sport to risk.
Speaker 3: 00:47:15 And then I really like to risk, um, if it's plausible or not. And I also really often think about the best case. I, I don't think about the worst case and to focus on the best case. I think it's, it's more, more important. Um, and it gives you the possibilities to do this. It means, um, when I launched in Iran, all the people, they say it's not possible to fly to Palo Alto because of the value breeze. And in my eyes, the best case was to land to top land on the, on the [inaudible] and then really was focusing on the best case. And finally it was not really possible but it relent quite close. So I almost get the best case. And maybe this also is a big different to the most of the athletes, but I know that it's, when I do coaching, I tried to, to explain how we convert. Well, we train, um, uh, how to think about the best case. And I know that it's really difficult because it's a characteristic of a people and there are many people in the world and some of the people, they are always positive and some of them they are negative. They always think about the problems and the people they think about problems to switch, to think about the best case. That's, that's not easy.
Speaker 3: 00:48:57 And I think for me it's a big, big luck and I'm really happy. I'm very happy to, to know that I, that I can focus on the best case and not thinking that on the worst case when I was young and I won some competitions, I was not realizing that I am able to do this. But now I never work with Thomas. He can explain me about, um, how it works in the head. And he said it's a big advantage. I have, um, to think about the best cases.
Speaker 2: 00:49:30 I think that's a, that's a, it's a great point. As I w after the last race I went back and, and really watched the, the, the race again, you know, you can play it back. They had it up for months. And it's really interesting. Yeah. And I, I remember, you know, when, when I fly, you know, here at home or you know, when I've done my good flights or in Alaska, that's these kind of places, the, the, the weight of the decisions is, is so much less because I don't care if I land in the middle of nowhere, you know, I have some stuff in my bag and I can walk forever and it's no big deal. But in the XL, I find that when I watch what you do, you're, you're, you're very often going back. You know, you're, you're going back to a climb or you're, you're, you're making moves that are taking you well-off course line that if they don't work, you're putting yourself in a, in a, in a worst place. But they, but they work because they're the things that make sense. But I think many of us really have a hard time doing that in the race because instantly you're thinking, okay, I've just, I've just hiked 6,000 meters today. If I bomb out again, if I, if this doesn't work, I'm taking, I'm putting myself in a, in a tougher place. That's hard.
Speaker 3: 00:50:46 And what does she think about, um, the, the sport of risk? It means when you, when you take 10 times a day, some risks, it means to fly back for a better climb or to, to, to have a better line. Um, then it's, it's very important to have success because all or each success makes you stronger in the head. It means, um, if you risk 10 times and it works for nine time, then it's, it's more efficient than if you risk just three times a day and it's three times it's working. So it means it's better, 90% of, of, um, of luck or for working then 100%, but with less, um, trainings. So that means it's better to always try to have block to optimize and sometimes to have a bad luck. But if it's less, you try and it's less efficient. It is so and, and didn't make it makes always sends to me to try minimum to try and yeah, if you don't try it for sure it is not
Speaker 2: 00:52:11 Google. In your, in your coaching, what are the, um, what are kind of the three things that come up again and again, you know, the things that you see that, that people need to work on, whether that be mistakes or lessons and, and if you can break that down with the beginner pilot, the intermediate pies and the advanced pilot and maybe they're the same with all three, but what do you, what do you kind of constantly going, okay, here's what we need to work on.
Speaker 3: 00:52:39 I think the most of the pilot they ask how to fly more safe. And I think that it's the wrong question. How to fly more safe. I think you have to think about you like to fly or not or you like to risk or not. And all the pilots, they fly good. This is a person they like to risk it. They normally they drive car at, at the dry fast in the, in the road they go in the mountains, they do climbing. They just kidding. You know, they, they really do. They like adventure and pilots, they really stay careful and they, they like to life. These pilots, they are not free and not good in, in, in this sport. And this makes often makes the difference a lot them, it's very hard to stitch um, how to fly more safe for sure. It's, it's good to, to, to have the um, the view of, uh, you know, the bodybuilder for example, they, they like to go on the podium and show Damascus and that, that they can win the, the competition.
Speaker 3: 00:54:00 They really have to go into the fitness center. I do train every single Moscow and for, for the training of the muscle, you have to think about the, the XM and the machine you chose. And you have to think about the way you choose and how many, um, moves you do, you know, and bodybuilder really need a lot of training. Otherwise, he losing the competition and the paraglider pilot that it just likes to fly and they don't do any training. They do a all school day, not that they don't like to train ground handling, they don't really do safety training or maybe once a year. And maybe they did. They do one fool still alive and it means they aren't many muscles that are not working well, but they really like to go on the, on the podium and show the muscles to win the competition. And it's just not possible. Um, do a coaching, I tried to, to speak about such points. It means to, to do is realize, um, the life, the problems and when they, when a pilot can see, um, or find the motivation to train the his muscles and Allston, it's a good way or a first step to, for example, slide more safe or to fly more efficient.
Speaker 2: 00:55:37 How much do you fly a year?
Speaker 3: 00:55:39 Yeah. Personally I do around $300 in a year. Okay. So that's also 300 or 400 flights. It means wait, the Aqua flights, they, they, it's uh, it's eight minutes. Normally it takes eight flies, 10 flights a day, and also some cross country flights from 10 to 12 hours. Hmm. And do you average it's an own tree on the dollars
Speaker 2: 00:56:05 you spoken of? You know, when you're flying, you need to be doing one of three things. You're climbing, you're gliding or you're planning. I think I saw that in a, in a, uh, in an article. Uh, th that, that I don't want you to break each one of those, but how do you approach that when you're talking about coaching? I mean, to me, I got a lot out of that because to me it was, what that means to me is there's, there should be no time in the flight where you're not really concentrating. Is it as simple as that or is, you know, break that down.
Speaker 3: 00:56:43 Yeah. The, the idea about this is to focus on the moment it means, um, it starts at the takeoff and pilots, they think about landing before the takeoff. They are not free to focus on the tech, so to have a plan where to fly and maybe to land it's important. But before the takeoff you have to have your brain free for the takeoff and often take off to to find the thermals and then it's not the question about how much speed or which line you have to fly. It's more the question and where is the place to climb and then to focus on the volume meter on the, on the turn you have to do to to watch out for signs like birds or other wings and if it's working and you can climb maybe in the upper part of the lift, you can think about the next slide and when you decide to, to Clyde, then you don't have to think about terminating a new glide to the point.
Speaker 3: 00:58:02 Very decided before. So it means to switch the mode or the focus. I think it's very important and especially you can do this, this mode OS more efficient. You can fly for sure. It's, it's depends off the conditions. When, when it's climbing everywhere, it's very easy. Everybody can do it, and if it's not climbing, then it starts to be very tricky and you have to switch in a syrup survival mode to really to stay in there. But as soon you can climb a little, you have to think about transition and then you have to think about how much speed, where to fly, which line, and then to reach this point, where do you think to climb, but to fly more efficient. It's also good to have more than one point in one spot too to fly on, because when the cycle of the thermal is not working on the on the first spot, you immediately can fly to the second or the third spot. And from outside it looks that you fly straight on this on the right place. What about I really do to fly from one spot to the next spot where I felt before that it should work.
Speaker 3: 00:59:29 And I think there are many things to focus, but you have to think about vital flying.
Speaker 2: 00:59:37 Oh, how much of your flying Kriegel do you, do you attribute to intuition versus this kind of calculated decision making?
Speaker 3: 00:59:47 Yeah, I'm, I'm specialists. I just lead me by my stomach. So it means calculation I don't like so much because I'm not good in calculations. Um, I don't like so much the facts. Um, it means to have waited for costs to know how much wind to, to know how much wind is on the ground because I say I come do something else, then I stay in the moment. So the moment and the facts in the moment are important. And so I and I, when I see a storm is coming, um, I don't have to calculate how much wind they come out and I can land. So I, I just feel like I can fly more forward or I have to learn, but it's, it's the most, most of my decisions. It's from the stomach.
Speaker 2: 01:00:44 Hmm. Um, I don't know that this is going to be an [inaudible] something you can answer. But year after year, I got my first taste for how you do this. You won't have even remember this day I'm sure, but years ago before the 2015 X Alps, it was a pretty good day and fish. And, and I was flying and I think you launched after me and we, we got down to, you know, where you kind of typically top up to push into the glacier, you know, above the Lake, right at the overpass or the Grimms will sir, the greens will pass. Yeah. And, and, and I did what everybody else does there. We, we all got high up to cloud base and then we pushed across and I looked below me and there was this glider right on the terrain, flying straight as an arrow into the, into the, let's call it a turn point.
Speaker 2: 01:01:35 It wasn't a cop or anything, it was just, you know, flying into the glacier and then you turned around. I say you because later I found out and turned around and flew straight. And you know, you just did this big triangle and, and you, you made in your comments, I had to, I had to translate it from German. But you made in your comments that you didn't turn, you know, and, and I is this been something you've been working on from the beginning or just, you know, like I've been told that you, you know, when you do your triangles like up to Zermatt and stuff, that you do it in 43 minutes and so the next time you try to do it in 42 minutes, um, I mean it's just a very different approach. But when I, when I look at, when I look at your, you know, for example, flying to Monaco, year after year, you're the only one that does it. You're the only one that makes it down there. You've got all that Seabreeze all that headwind. You did it again this time you, you straight. And I, I, I don't think any of us understand how you do that when there's so much. When is that something you can answer or is that just intuition but,
Speaker 3: 01:02:40 and it's always the situation would, makes it possible to, to fly straight. But I think that my, a friend of mine and when he was really young, he say, okay w why the turning you fly 50% in the wrong direction. So and it's from let's fly straight and it really makes sense. And I, I really, um, with the new wings, even with, with the storyline and now you can slide straight strides, right? And, and just turn men, it's really important but as long as you can fly straight, it's much more efficient because of, of no turning. And on the Tara it means on the, on the rich or the mountains always have this more Mer, which climbs a little and well on this little climbs you can fly strides, rights, right? And while climbing you get the strong lift. But after the lift you have sink air up high because it's not no warm air from the tower coming up. So that means after turning in, terminating him for sure, we'll tie it down. And when you can follow a Ridge, you'll not really climb pot. You, you don't lose altitude. So it's more efficient to fly straight on the rich, quite low. Then to terminal up and flight down.
Speaker 2: 01:04:13 And are you, are you right on the terrain? I mean you literally just right off the twink the tree, the tree tops [inaudible]
Speaker 3: 01:04:22 yeah, sometimes for sure it's, it's strong lift and then it's also up high but, but um, my new phone low, you can follow the, the cliff and often it's better to fly quite slow. It means trim, speed or trust a little of acceleration instead of terminating and fly full speed. So when you, when you fly, you kind of calculate, when you turn, you turn 50% in the wrong direction. It means instead of 60, you fly 30, and then you fly trim speed all the way, it's 40. It's um, it's double speed. It's almost 10 more and it makes it more efficient and more relaxed normally.
Speaker 2: 01:05:11 Um, totally different subject. Before the last [inaudible] you had an accident and you, uh, broke one or two ankles,
Speaker 3: 01:05:21 one on the right, the included
Speaker 2: 01:05:23 or if you had other accidents.
Speaker 3: 01:05:26 No, no. I, I was I think quite lucky in this age, like 18 years now. And I had after 16 I had the first accident and it was in a, in a flight from Surmont with a ton of them, with my own life. So it was an officer, a long hikes flight. I was really tired and I had my backpack on with 15 kilo of climbing gear. And finally we learned in the in dash and my mistake was not to, to have the big field. Um, I was trying to land as close to translation as possible into the houses. There was in the evening at six, there was no wind, but there was some turbulences and finally it feels like falling down from, um, I'll do the house. So it means 10, 12 meters. It was always a free full, I think it was the same [inaudible] like with the reserve or own six, seven meters per second.
Speaker 3: 01:06:35 And I even had more hard lendings before or after, but it was with the back protection on the harness and I was really focused on the hard landing. And in this case, I was not thinking about the problem. I was not thinking about the half our lending and the last two seconds of the flight just went down and, and so I think because I was not focused on the problem, um, I broke my leg and my wife, I, I hold my wife and we had light equipment, so no prep, no back protection. And I realized in the last second I have to stay on my feet and not on my ass because of my back. So it, it wasn't really a crash, but it was too much for my ankle. So I broke them. And yeah, finally it was very lucky this, it was just my ankle and not the back of us too.
Speaker 2: 01:07:34 The lighting. What can you pass along to us about how you seem to glide so efficiently? And again, I know that this is a hard thing too. I've asked many of the pilots on the show about gliding and rasa. I didn't actually had a really cool thing to say about you. He said, you know, listen, most good pilots, even decent pilots have all the same knowledge. They Kriegel does, he just executes it better. But um, you know, I, I often find it, you know, I haven't been flying it nearly as long as you have, but I often find gliding, you know, sometimes you know, you find convergence lines and it's real obvious and it's really nice to get a nice line. But other times I find it quite hard to identify if the gliders is pulling me into more lift or more sink. It's that, that very fine line I find can be hard to identify, especially on bar. And you know, maybe if you're not on bar it's more sensitive but um, what, what, what things can you, is that something you talk about with your clients? A lot.
Speaker 3: 01:08:42 Yeah. But I think that's a very difficult part because there is lighting the feeling for the lines and how much speed it's, it's the best. And there is climbing internally. And for example, in the world championship learnt up there 100 2,150 pilots and all of them fly the same wing and to same wing load, same harness. Every scene is the same. But from this 120 pilots, there may be five, they are able to climb better and maybe 10 they're able to find the good lines. And I know for example that my, my strengths is to fly fast in turbulent conditions but not to climb in weak conditions. So to find the lift, the core of a terminal and to climb well and really bad in this. And I really spoke Mitt the Saif people, they really climbed well and I, I was not able to, to find out what I can change to have a better client.
Speaker 3: 01:09:55 You know that there is two aspects. One is to know from the other what, what did this fact and the other part it's to, to change on myself. And finally I just realized that I not the best in client but I really good in, in uh, high-speed finals. So I, I tried to focus on my strengths and to accept my, my weak points and it helps me to stay motivated in the competition, for example. But for sure when it's an a day, which wreaks terminals. I know it's not the day to win, but they are maybe another day strong conditions and then no, today's my day and they can compete well and this is the facts but, but to, to know about the feeling in glide and in climbing, it's very, very difficult. It means, it means on a good level it means for a student it's, it's more easy to explain how to climb and how to find the good lines. But in this level of, of, of world cup pilots of this 122 level is so similar but still differences.
Speaker 2: 01:11:14 Hmm. If you could, if you could go back to your kind of 50 hours self, that was probably when you were 10 or 12 and you can't even remember it, but, um, what, what would you have done if you could, if you could rewind the clock, uh, that to that time, would you do anything different? Would you, would you, he'd any advice that you may be got but didn't need or would you train?
Speaker 3: 01:11:44 Yeah, definitely. I am not flying high performance. Being so early because I was from, from the, from the school being directly to a high end doing and for sure to step was to pick, but that was not realizing that it's dangerous. And the other part is to, to not risk too much or not always risk so much, but it's very hard to, because I know that while this experience I did, I really learned a lot how to, how to do it. So it gives me also a lot of, um, feeling and knowhow and sinus say, okay, there was always too much race, but it was important to make this experience. So it was, it was very hard to just teach my brother when there was learning and this infinity tumbling, he was asking me what he can change, what he can do and I want in to push, um, to make a mistake. But I wouldn't, I also want him to help, um, to be, to be better. And it wasn't very difficult to do. Yeah. Understand to understand what I can help him
Speaker 2: 01:13:07 going in the other direction. You know, you've ticked the world championships, you've ticked the acro, you've ticked the hardest race on earth. Um, what do you see yourself doing in five, 10 years?
Speaker 3: 01:13:22 Uh, I say when, when I can compete in the [inaudible] competition, uh, I really like to do this, but my body has to, to help me to train, to be ready for the races. Um, for sure I like to spread my experience in the, in coaching, in tandem flights and also in speeches to companies also. Uh, I think that I also work with the Swiss league to, to help, uh, to help the pilots to improve hairstyle. Um, yeah, I hope to fly as long as I can because I really like to fly.
Speaker 2: 01:14:05 What I want to be mindful of your time [inaudible] I know it's getting late and you're, you're part of the world. Have so many more questions to ask you, but maybe we can do a followup episode or something, but what, what, what would you like to impart on the, on the kind of the flying community? I mean, I think you can be so many people here that, that really wanted a takeaway. There's so inspired by what they see you doing. They're so kind of mystified by what what you're doing. Um, what would you say is, you know, how, how can we use pilots, emulate what you're doing and, and become better? What, what are the things that you would suggest, uh, that they focused on? Formal? Steve mentioned like ground handling and, and SIV, uh, you know, maybe it's, is it, is it more the, is it the foundational stuff? Is it just ours?
Speaker 3: 01:15:02 I really think that it's very helpful to think about the personal goals to sync about why I do paragliding. Um, and then to realize, okay, this is my goal and then I want to go after you can think about the time you spend for the sport and then maybe to think about optimizing some parts to reach the personal goal. And for sure if the goal is very high and maybe needs the, you know, the goals before the, the small steps to, to, to take some, some courses to make training specific training to, to, to, to practice more hours, um, to reach a goal. But I think is first of all falls, everything. It's, it's good to think about a personal goal and to know why you do this.
Speaker 2: 01:16:05 Hmm. Okay. Final question. If you could do an X out style event anywhere in the world but not Switzerland, if you could do it anywhere, where would you like to do one? Okay,
Speaker 3: 01:16:22 that's a good question. Definitely not in the flat. I think that the Indian part or the Himalaya will be very interesting because it's a, it's everything. It's more extreme, it's more, more difficult, but it's also more, uh, more than the adventure I think. Daubs it's very easy because the of the people living here have the infrastructure and to go out in the nature of various, they really, I would have been more hard, but also more interesting.
Speaker 2: 01:17:03 Well, we would, uh, I know our, our tiny little community here, uh, Nate scales who you think, you know from the two, seven, 2007 race and myself and our little community, you know, we, we like to, we get really, really tall here and we fly with oxygen and we would sure love to have you come out here and show us how to fly. It's a, it's big air. I think you would really enjoy it. So maybe, maybe one of these days I can come, I can talk you in to come and visit. I think he would really enjoy it. It's a very different kind of place, but great. Thank you so much. Uh, it's just such an honor and a, I can't wait to share this with the world. Um, thank you so much. I'll let you get some sleep by chapter, by chapter.
Speaker 1: 01:17:52 Well, I hope you enjoyed that, uh, amazing to sit down with the [inaudible] not arguably the best pilot in the world. Uh, so awesome to watch him win and just, yeah, I mean it's incredible. The, the, the amount of talent and you know, the guys that he's beating in that race is a, it's really a feat that he's pulling off again and again and again. Five mins in a row, just truly phenomenal. Something I don't think we'll ever see again. Uh, so my takeaway, uh, right when I hung up w with Kriegel after, after we, we closed, um, there's been a few pretty serious accidents, uh, here back in the States when I was gone. And it made me think about, you know, one of the things that I think is a major misconception when people watch something like the ex hops is like, God, these guys take so much risk.
Speaker 1: 01:18:46 And I'd say, you know, in the last two, you know, the last two races, 2015 in this one, you know, certainly there are times when we were flying in, in what I would call very non recreational type air. Uh, pretty strong stuff. But you know, you can kind of see it in the results. There were a couple accidents for sure from flying. Most of the, most of the, you know, people folding were because of exhaustion or blisters or something non-flying related. But I think it's hard for people to understand the, the amount of training that goes in and what training gives you is a margin. And you know, the more you train, the more you Kriegel talks really eloquently about that in this podcast. Just about how he, you know, eliminates a lot of risks through very serious pointed training. That's, that's, it's not just going out and flying around.
Speaker 1: 01:19:40 It's very purposeful. He's learning, he's adapting and he, he makes some, he makes some comparisons to other sports, you know, like even backpacking and tracking and, you know, just being adventurous that I think really apply to piloting. So the one thing I just wanted to throw out there is, you know, if you don't have the training, if you don't have the foundations, if you don't have those skills, then you know, you need to apply that to what you can do. You need to reel it back and you know, fly within the, uh, you know, the wind levels and the day levels and the time of day and the places you're going that suit your skill level. The other thing is time. You know, when I realized, you know what a lot of the ex ops pilots have, including myself, is a lot of time to dedicate to this sport.
Speaker 1: 01:20:33 When you have a lot of time, you can choose the days better. Obviously in the X you can't choose the days, but you, you know, you, we have the luxury of backing off when it makes sense and not flying on a certain day and when it's not Epic. Whereas when you don't have a lot of time, let's say you're a a hundred hour pilot a year as opposed to, you know, most of the ex ops guys are 300 plus easy. You know, when you don't have the time and there is all this pressure, it's Saturday, you've only got the weekend. It's not as good as you hoped, but you know, it's Saturday only had this one day. Be cognizant, adapt, be thinking about that before, you know, you pull the trigger and go into the sky because it only takes once. And I think that's what's getting a lot of people is that there's all this extraneous pressure, uh, that, you know, that works its magic on our minds and our minds don't hit, they don't, they can't handle it as well.
Speaker 1: 01:21:28 So anyway, just a little hands up to remember what we're doing, what we're participating in a, I hate to harp on the safety stuff too much, but it just made me really mindful of it, you know, talking to Kriegel that there's a lot of things we can do to dial it back and to be safe and have a long, uh, happy, fulfilling careers in this sport and you know, and not get hurt. And, uh, that's what this podcast is all about. So as I said at the top of the show, this is a listener supported podcast. There are various ways you can support us, uh, either through Patrion or PayPal directly or you can also, uh, share it with your friends or uh, put up a rating on iTunes or Stitcher or Google play, however you listen to the show. And, uh, I've got some great giveaways for any of you who do, uh, that very cool GoPro and email that, uh, Ben gave us, Ben French town, New Zealand and also, uh, after this one wrapped up cause Korea was pretty tired.
Speaker 1: 01:22:28 It was getting late in his part of the world. Uh, I still had a lot of questions that you, uh, had given me through the Facebook. Uh, I put up a post there that I was going to be talking to Kriegel and ask for questions. Got some fantastic ones. We didn't have the time and this one to go through them. Uh, but we did a follow up and I did ask him all those questions. So if you want to get that, we're going to make that available only to our Patrion supporters. So go to patrion.com/ cloud-based ma'am, if you're not already a supporter there, a sign up, you can sign up at any different level. All we ask for is a bucket show, but if you want to sign up for more, there's things like trucker hats and t-shirts and books and all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1: 01:23:06 Uh, as a thank you for doing that and we're going to have that, that episode up, that kind of bonus episode up here in a few days. So, uh, check that out. Also wanted to announce that North and known went live on the 17th of July on red bull TV, so it's now available for free on the interwebs. If you have red bull TV at home, you can watch it on the big screen. It's also available online. Go to my Facebook page, facebook.com/gavin en McClurg or website cloud-based mayhem.com you can find the links for that or just Google it, North unknown Alaska traverse and a highly recommend you watch that on the big screen. The scenery is pretty insane and a really proud of this film has been doing great at the film festivals, winning lots of awards and uh, yeah, just cool. Very, very cool project that took a lot of years to put together. So hope you enjoy it and I hope you enjoyed the show and hope to see on the next one. Thanks very much. Talk to you soon.
Speaker 4: 01:24:05 Turtles is grab day. All [inaudible] crafting.


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