Episode 171- Daniel Tyrkas and unlocking the secrets

Daniel Tyrkas is no stranger performing at a high level. He took a passion for gymnastics onto the slopes and soon after competed for Germany in snowboarding in the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics after nearly qualifying for Nagano in 98′ (while going to engineering school!). He sends huge airs in kiteboarding, but his true passion for the last couple decades has been paragliding. He’s commonly ranked in the top 15 in the world, regularly represents Germany on their national team, and very often can be found at the top of XContest on big days in the Alps (in fact he just broke the site record from near his home in Kossen just after we had our talk). In this episode we dig into his comp success, going big in XC, the most critical maneuvers to have down to be safe, striking the right balance between attacking and control, how to fly the best lines, and doing it all while having a real job and real family! “The journey of becoming a better bird never ends.” Enjoy!

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Topics we discuss on the show:

  • Daniel discusses his 2002 winter olympics in Salt Lake City and how his body awareness helped him learn to fly quickly
  • A non-standard progression
  • Learning SIV very early on
  • Getting into XC and putting things together
  • Optimizing. Is it engineering, flow, approach, training…or something else
  • Competitions- how to succeed
  • Monarca, Colombia, and the comp scene
  • Controlling the wing when the shit hits the fan
  • Fly the wing you are comfortable with
  • One job- angle of attack!
  • A lifetime accident free
  • Macready dictates bar use
  • Striking the right balance
  • You can only try to improve yourself
  • Becoming a better bird
  • Don’t be dumb- pretty easy!
  • The importance of having quick-outs
  • Passive safety- where it matters
  • Carry a hook knife!
  • Honorin- how?

Mentioned in this show:

Will Gadd, Aaron Durogati, Thomas Theirillat, Honorin Hamard, Luc Armont, Russ Ogden, Charles Cazaux, Ulrich Prinz

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Speaker 1 (0s): Hi there everybody. Welcome to another episode of Cloudbase Mayhem. Got a great show for you today with world cup and German team pilot, Daniel Tyrkas. Who's had a amazing career including competing for Germany in the 2002 Olympic games and Salt Lake City. In the half pipe, we talk about his approach to risk and flying huge triangles and the Alps he's from kind of the Kimsey region, which the exiles goes through every year.

And I've always, I always see him kind of picking up on those huge days on, on X contests. So he gets after it, but he's also got a real job and real family. And so it doesn't have all the time in the world. And, but he's managed to take a very methodical approach to flying and done really well with it for a long time. He has never had an accident. Talk about that and why, and some of the reflections he's had over the years on, on getting good, going beg and Stan safe.

So you're really gonna enjoy this talk. I did. We talked a lot about the Olympics too, which was a ton of fun. The only bit of housekeeping I have is as we get into the travel season for those in the Northern hemisphere and the Southern hemisphere going to the Northern hemisphere to fly is the insurance scheme continues to change. And it's been a hard thing to kind of pin down the article I have on the website. If you go to Cloudbase, Mayhem dot com and just put in the search term insurance, that I am constantly updating that with recommendations.

I'm of course no expert, but as I have pushed for years and years, that we need to have proper coverage case things go pear shaped. Lot of our fellow friends who've gotten hurt, especially overseas, and don't have the right kind of coverage. You can quickly run into the six figures and be real painful for family friends. We see a lot of me kind of things to try to get people home. So don't let that be. You don't think it's not going to happen to you better to just be covered and prepared.

It's literally the cup. It's less than the price of coffee a day kind of thing, to get yearly coverage. And this is not just domestic insurance, but travel insurance and repatriation insurance, evacuation insurance. So I make recommendations there and tell you why and it's worth going through it and figuring it out, especially before you go off to a world cup, go off to a competition or just go off to fly and have some fun hope. You're all having a good spring.

And there's been some big flights going down lately on envious. I've been building a house I've been flying too much. So then I'm watching it and getting ready for summer.

Speaker 2 (2m 59s): So if you're all having a great one, enjoy this really fun. Talk with my friend Daniel Tyrkas Daniel. Great to have you on the show and then really excited to talk to you since we chatted down at the world cup in Columbia, which was man, that was fun and you ended up having a pretty good race. And so we're going to talk a lot about paragliding and comp flying and all that.

And I'm going to, I'm going to enjoy the view out your window here with, it sounds like it's dumping over there, which is great. I know the Alps needs more snow as we do, but I wanted to start off with the Olympics. You were in Salt Lake for the Olympics and snowboarding. So tell me about that. You know, I had pretty big aspirations as a ski racer and trash my knees when I was 17 and then 18 again, and that all ended with that, but how'd you make the transition and how was it? How was it being in the Olympics? Congratulations.

Speaker 3 (4m 0s): Thank you. I mean, that's pretty long time ago. In fact, it's pretty much 20 years. Exactly. Yeah. It was 2002 fellow snake. Well, where should I start? First of all, thanks for having me. I really enjoy your podcasts to listen to them regularly on long drives regarding the snow. In fact, I don't need it anymore. I'm more like Skiing, skiing is over, but yeah, I think it's a bit strange here, the weather, but it will disappear quick.

I think, anyhow, well, where should I stop? I've always ski like you and quite a lot because of my parents were skiing. And, and then when the snowboarding popped up, I wasn't skateboarder and I'm also wind surfer now more the kite surfer and always outdoor sports. And then I made the switch to snowboarding and somehow I was pretty good probably also because of my gymnastics background. I also did gymnastics when I was a kid.

In fact, I, I, at first I had a sponsor like from our local shop where I was living back then, and then I was like, ah, I'm not having a sponsor. So I had some gear for free. So probably I should do some comps. And that's how it all started. Right. It was pretty tough because in the beginning, when I was a student, I had no money. So I slept in my car. No, he didn't of course, yes, exactly. Classic dirt bag, but I somehow enjoyed these comms.

And then at first was park and then the pipe writing came up and you know, and it was still ISF. So it international snowboard Federation and I kept getting better. So I've been from regional comms to German, to European and then suddenly, oh, I'm qualified for the world cup. I did in total, I did for four years of four seasons world cup tour during my studies. In fact, I studied mechanical engineering and

Speaker 2 (6m 10s): This is all, was it pipe? Was it free ride? You know, now, now there's a lot more events than what you had even back then, but what's what was, what was your specialty?

Speaker 3 (6m 19s): It was, well, first it was parked, but then it kind of transitioned to pipe. And then in the beginning I was also doing some border cross races and bigger. So anything basically that came along while you were there already. Anyways, I never did any slalom or giants, logging, stuff like that, which I was all the way, all the way as a soft boot rider, you have some, some, some gates to pass, right?

Yeah. And then I, I kind of was here and the first two years I couldn't travel. I couldn't afford, I didn't have proper sponsors to travel overseas. So the first couple of years where I'm going to Europe, you know, everything, you could reach with the car and sleeping in the car there. And for me it was like, okay, I want to snowboard, you know, and that was, that was cool. And then I started being better and better. And then I thought, oh, this is maybe a ticket to see the world. You know, that was a bit of a driver. You know, I always had like bit of a travel and I wanted to see the world.

Yeah. And that's basically how it evolved. And then I had a sponsor and then I started traveling, you know, proper sponsor. I then I also made the transition to the ski Federation then because my sponsor went bankrupt as well, along story. But to make it short, we got better and better and better. And then it was for me to ticket to see the world. So I was in Japan twice. I was in Chile. I was in, you know, in lake Tahoe and in Vancouver and on the east coast. And it's been a great time.

Then I was already closed for the Olympics in Nagano in 90, 98, but I couldn't make it. And then I thought, okay, well maybe Salt Lake, but it was also really close to be honest. So I really literally qualified in the last possible comp in the last possible run. It was me and another guy and we were in the finals and I was second and he was first.

So I had to go, it was reverse order in the last run, two final runs. Right. Oh, you both disappeared in the woods, you know, trying to focus. Exactly. Yeah. The pressure was really on. And then I did a really, really great run and I think I finished the company in the top five or something and he slammed, he fell.

Yeah. And then I went to salt lake city and that was really cool because okay. Olympics, you know, I mean, that's still, I think for any athlete, it's the, the calm you want to be it right. Roads or European championships or whatever,

Speaker 2 (9m 17s): That's the mountain town.

Speaker 3 (9m 20s): And that it was cool because there was like a half stadium basically built around the pipe loads of people and you could choose your music and you know, like it was a cool event.

Speaker 2 (9m 32s): Yeah. That Olympics was beautiful and it was, you know, they, they did a really nice job and it was, it was a, it was an amazing event. The whole thing at that Olympics was that,

Speaker 3 (9m 43s): I mean there, or did you just follow because you're too far away?

Speaker 2 (9m 47s): No, I was, I was sailing then I was sailing around the world. So I actually didn't even get to see that much of it. But, but it was, you know, I, it was, it was weird watching Beijing this year, you know, Salt Lake really kind of lined up better for winter mountain sports. You know, that was kind of bizarre in Beijing. It looked cold this year, too, man. It looked miserable. Holy moly. But what, what, so just, I mean, I, we gotta talk about paragliding, but the, the w that experience, can you, can you summarize it?

I mean, does it still just leave a huge mark on you? It must've been amazing to be part of, I mean, the Olympics, it's the dream

Speaker 3 (10m 28s): And F in fact it left a mark because I still feel my shoulder.

Speaker 2 (10m 35s): Did you crash in it? Did you get hurt in the Olympics?

Speaker 3 (10m 37s): Yeah, in fact, it was a bit unfortunate. I mean, it, wasn't very unfortunate and well, no illusions, I wouldn't be winning them. Right. But I thought, okay, I can be in the finals. You know, I mean, I was an amateur, right. I was studying at the same time, an engineer having, getting an engineering degree together. And so in fact, I got injured before the comp and not in the halfpipe, but playing volleyball after training, you know, type two or a bit of a cool-down.

And in fact, you know, I went up to block and my, my trainer has jumped on my foot when landing. And so my ankle was fucked one day before the afternoon before. Yes. But I sure didn't want to give up. And of course I wanted to do it. Right. And so I got fixed up as good as you can with tape around the, you know, and painkillers and everything. And it was kind of okay.

I could ride, but, and I could also do all the years landing forward, like, you know, not goofy, not I was riding goofy, but not backwards. Like, so landing fake the other foot forward. Yep. Because the pressure and the transition, it was already super pipe pick then. Right. I knew my anchor. I it's tough. So I can't take pressure probably. So I avoided this last tree called the time training so I could ride yeah. Long story short.

It was a switch Hawk and flips. So, you know, one, one flip and two spins, basically. That's what it was landing then in Frankie. And then my, my ankle couldn't take the pressure and smock full on, on my shoulder, dislocated my shoulder. And I saw it. I just had caught the edge, you know, because it felt like it. And then, yeah, my shoulder was fucked too. And my ankle and it's two qualified, but I didn't want to give up. And, you know, I had chosen highway to hell from ACDC.

Speaker 2 (12m 45s): Nice. Awesome. That's my lighting. Still

Speaker 3 (12m 50s): Imagine you talk with the bourbons right highway. I was flying high and it was really good. Then you hear, you know, it goes silent and you hear, while you're in the air really high and you hear the crowd. I didn't hear the music. I heard the crowd. Funny enough. I heard this music before they run, but in the run, I heard the crowd went up for the second run with more painkillers and then same thing smack again on the same shoulder then.

Well, I rehab and everything, but six weeks later, I was in Japan for the next world cup. And yeah. So I finished that season basically. And then I was facing the world ranking, which wasn't too bad, but you know, I had to finish my engineering degree too. And then I thought, okay, maybe it's a good time to, you know, call it a day. And then I finished my career basically because I wasn't going to go for another four years. You know, I was already 27, which is pretty old for, you know, a half-pipe snowboarder.

You have to be able to take some impact.

Speaker 2 (14m 6s): How about Sean White this year? What was he? 36 or something. I mean, that, that the poundings that, I mean, the, the height and the, this is just such a magnificent thing to watch, but I mean, th they're doing that on ice. I mean, that Beijing pipe was just re I mean, and it is regardless, it's all, it's isolated where it's just, it's hard. Cause you guys riding it so hard and it's, they shape it every day and it's freezing every night. And man, it's just like, you know, you're 30 feet above the ledge.

You're caught off the bottom of the pocket. It's hardcore, it's Broken, you know, you just,

Speaker 3 (14m 47s): But I mean, you need to take impact and it's okay. As long as you land smooth and the transition, right. If you're, if you push off a little bit too much flat, or if you push a little bit too little, you land on the table, right. Or even worse, like not just about enough. And that's why it's called to disaster. Right. One foot it's precision. Yeah. And I also remember in Finland also pure ice, and you have to go and fly five meter high, you know?

So it's like

Speaker 2 (15m 18s): When, when you, when you watch that kind of, so I, we have a big pipe here at the local hill. We've got the big hill and then we've got a little hill where they've, you know, they have, they have the park and the pipe and you know, really good athletes come and train here cause they've got good snow and they've got good shaping and all that. You know, I don't know anything about that, but you know, they, they've got a really good ski team here to Alpine. I was always Alpine. I never did any of the trucks. And I always kinda sucked in the air. I wasn't really that good at any of the stuff that you did. And, but when I watch what's, you know, and this was a long time ago, I'm almost 50, you know, so this was back in the eighties and early nineties.

And, you know, but when I watched these kids now 14, 15, 16, 17, I can't even believe it. I, I mean, I, I watched that and go God, did I even ever, was I even close to that? Good. It gives me kind of the, it gives me kind of the creeps. I mean the speed and the energy and, and it's awesome.

Speaker 3 (16m 14s): Like any sport, of course it evolved to. So basically they're just adding another flip, you know, and another spin since the time, you know, when I did it. And so the level definitely evolved and like the young kids are charging, but also, you know, the, the whole training conditions got a lot better and even more professional, you know, we didn't have these air bags where you can practice your tricks into just didn't exist. Right. So now you have a bit more of safety to practice, you know?

And of course also back at my time, the good guys, you know, they had all, some gymnastics background like me or diving, like boards, you call it like that right background. And so that you knew, okay, this is how I am in the air, you know, so that you could do all the tricks, but we would practice in the summertime during the summer camps when the pipe was slushy, then the impact wasn't so hard.

Speaker 2 (17m 20s): Right. Yeah. But it's not like going into balls. I mean, I mean, even, even back in your day or, I mean, red bull was building Sean his own pipe, you know what I mean? It's pretty hard to go up against a guy that's got his own.

Speaker 3 (17m 30s): No, it wasn't. Sean was a little kid. So it showed up in one of the last columns and was a little kid.

Speaker 2 (17m 41s): I thought that was his first.

Speaker 3 (17m 43s): Yeah, just coming in right There. Canadian guy called Mike, Michael Chuck, maybe you have heard of him. Terry Hawkinson, Jeff's basically retired. And Shaun white was just coming.

Speaker 2 (18m 3s): It's gotta be like the, you know, the, the people coming into the X ops for the first time and Kriegel, you know, one seven in a row. I mean, just, you know, there's a different level, right? So you've got to read right off the bat here. You've got two things that, to me add up to just, whoa, you've got these huge building blocks to be an awesome pilot engineering. I, how many people we had on the show or how many people do we see in this sport that are engineers, it's just over and over and over again.

And then flow, you know, you're, you're obviously a big time flow athlete and a lot of flow history with, you know, we'll get always said that when he, when he sees people coming from flow sports, whether it be even mountain bike riding, but, but you know, surfing skateboarding, snowboarding, any kind of flow activity, kayaking big one, then they just get really good, really fast at paragliding. And I've often thought it's not just the flow.

It's the, it's the way your brain handles risk. You know, you're, you're doing a trick, like you said, that's got so much precision and a little bit of screw up means a broken shoulder, broken collarbone, broken leg, you know, high consequence. Right. So I I'd love to hear where you, where you piloting back then, where you, where you were you a paraglider at all and you started it when you were

Speaker 3 (19m 28s): Yeah. Yeah. I started flying 90, 97. So at the time I was already flying for five years and, and I always liked flying, you know, no matter which kind of thing it was with the snowboard flying with a surf board, hitting the waves. So the wind for a right flying kickers and everything. I always loved it. Yeah. But I was a pilot already and I kind of combined it also, you know, spring training and doubles, for example, you know, first snowboard then go down to the parking lot.

My house , The car was worth a lot more than the car around

Speaker 2 (20m 24s): As it should be dude, as it should be. That's right.

Speaker 3 (20m 27s): Yeah. So snowboard in glider out. And so I kind of combined it already back then.

Speaker 2 (20m 34s): Wow. You were pretty young then you, cause you said you were 27 when you kind of retired in, in Salt Lake. So you were early twenties when you were flying, you got to be pretty

Speaker 3 (20m 44s): Early, right? Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 2 (20m 48s): Tell me about that phase. You know, those first five, you know, when you're, you're training for the Olympics and stuff, but you're also piloting. What was that? What was that period of your life? Like in terms of the flying side, learning it, you know, if you went, if you could go back to that time, would you change anything?

Speaker 3 (21m 4s): No. No, I don't think so. I mean, I, I didn't do the standard progression maybe in flying either. Right. So I started flying and then I had all this outdoor sports background and, you know, I knew where I am in the air, you know, and where my arms and legs and you know, like this, this motion And the flight teacher back then quickly realized that I must have some talent.

Right. So in fact, the fifth flight already, it was like, oh, we forgot a radio. Well, you Daniel, you can go without, it's fine. You know? And, and I kind of started saying

Speaker 2 (21m 50s): He, he right away recognized, you just had a better, you had better perception. You had better understanding of, of what was happening.

Speaker 3 (21m 58s): Well, it seems like at least, right. I felt like, okay, I'm a beginner on, of course I'm aware and you need to be aware, what's your skill level? What's your skill set? Where are you? Right. And then what kind of risk, or is it risk, right. Is it a perception? So if I hit a caker with like, you know, 80 kilometers an hour, your check it flapping, you know, and you go like really flying 30 meters over the kicker and doing some spinning flippy stuff, you know, an outsider would go like you fucking nuts.

Right. But for me it was like, no, I'm in control. I know how to handle this. I know how to do it. You know, I know my risk of injury is limited because this tricky I'd done several times. You know, I hit the kicker for a straight, of course, before I do any tricks to get used to the kicker and stuff and new tricks, we would practice into soft snow or powder or whatever. Right. And I was aware, okay, I'm a beginner here Monday. And you know, I started already, sorry, the wind was right.

The conditions were good. All the other pupils who were launching below me, I was watching them, you know, without the radio. And then the guys started waving at me that I should like, kind of fly out, fly out, you know, like we're done for the day back and forth.

Speaker 2 (23m 16s): Yeah. Wow. This is great.

Speaker 3 (23m 21s): And then it was of course kind of exciting that, you know, I went exploring where I have been, you know, like where I was snowboarding. Okay. New mountain, new launch, you, new landing, new conditions kind of, you know, figuring it out. That was of course exciting, but maybe going back a bit. And then I, I did like my 50 flights and then I went straight to an SIV and then did this SIV also with the same guy. And he was basically a bit of a mentor then, because he knew I didn't have money and you know, and so he always kept giving me some tips and you know, so that helped with my progression.

And so I did this on all SIV, full installing everything. And then I was done with the SIV and then he was like, yo, okay, if you like, you can upgrade now you're I have a performance glider here. You know, like, if you want to buy it, you can have it. I'm like really? You know? So I stepped up from like a one to two to a two to three back then. So basically going straight to an Indian, I'm like, really? Yeah, yeah, you can handle it. And then I was like, okay, I'll go up here.

And that was an overground already. And he taught me a full install is the reset button. Right. I'm like, okay, I'm going up here. I'll do some photos. Okay. Can you watch me? No. Oh, I handle it. Give me some feedback. And I went up and it wasn't best enough flew out for the star. Okay. And find another one, the three landed. He was like, ah, look good. And then we made the deal and he followed me the glider. And then he was like, this is the glider you're going to learn flying with properly.


Speaker 2 (25m 2s): Wow.

Speaker 3 (25m 6s): Since then,

Speaker 2 (25m 7s): Because I mean, for you for somebody that's really good at aerobatics. I said, he must've been really boring. Geez. I've done. I'm not doing an infinite yet.

Speaker 3 (25m 16s): It wasn't boring and infinite didn't exist. It was just found it. Like I remembered in watching this on, on tape basically back then still. Right. No internet. Yeah. And so the Southwest just invented, you know, and I was like already flying for three years or so. So what we did where we know words and spirals and more wing overs and a stall or a spin and stuff like that.

Right. And kind of continued or the time with maneuvers for fun. Right. But I didn't find, I never found it boring. It was always exciting. Right. Because I knew consequences. You need to focus here. Right. And then of course, yeah. So did you already fly to the pin skull valley? You know, like, no, I haven't like, what do you need to do? And so, you know, so I got into cross country flying as well.

Speaker 2 (26m 14s): Where were you living? Were you living there again in the Northern Alps, near where you are? Cause you're near Kimsey now, is that where you were back then too?

Speaker 3 (26m 23s): During I studied an airline, which is close to Nuremberg, which is like two hours north of Munich. That's where I grew up and I studied and everything. I couldn't afford to move anywhere else to study. So I just stayed home and did everything from there. But once I had finished my degree, it was clear for me. I wanted to be Munich or further south. I want it to be needed to be closer to the mountains. And that's what I did. And then I was like Southeast of Munich, south west of Munich, and six years I'm living where I'm living, which is the closest to the mountains yet.

But all the way south of me,

Speaker 2 (26m 59s): Th this is probably an impossible question, but I'd like to get your take on, if you could, if you could look at what's made you a really successful pilot now and compare it back to then which piece of the pie means more? Is it the engineering or is it the flow? Is it the, is it the sport background? W how do those two mix in terms of your you're becoming a world-class pilot

Speaker 3 (27m 27s): Requestion, neither, maybe honestly speaking. Yeah. I mean, surely there are elements of it, right? So that you have the, maybe a bit of an analytical mind and that you can reflect on what you have been doing and that you can visualize, you know, that comes from the sports that you have been doing a lot outside in the nature. You kind of can read, you know, we had to, you had to read the mountain when free riding, or, you know, like, we need to read the elements when surfing or wind surfing, or like you mentioned kayaking.

Right. And I think that definitely helped, but finally it was just pure fun. Okay. And maybe also engineers, like to optimize everything. So I also like to get better at stuff. Right. It's just fun. A good journey. So, you know, like what can I train next? Where are my gaps? Okay. This is me from the sports background where you say, okay, which is, I wouldn't call it like a training plan, but you say, okay, I maybe need to practice my wing all where it's more, you know, or I want to fly bigger distance.

Or, but finally, I also, I devoured basically everything flying. Right. And I think it's a lot of a mind game. In fact, it was one finished guy telling me, like, then snowboard competition, you know, it's all a mind game and he's right. He was right. Right. I mean, we're all a good snowboarder. So, you know, the last final bit, it's your mind, I read books, you know, about weather, about, you know, about everything you can have and then go flying a lot.

And then if you combine these two, yeah. Then you get a better pilot.

Speaker 2 (29m 13s): That's a really good transition to comps Daniel, you w you and I talked quite a bit down in Columbia, just about your history, your 15th in the world or something right now, you've, you know, you've had, you've got a lot of comp experience, you know, at, at the world cup level, what you hear a lot is for the most part, let's call it, you know, and in Columbia, this was certainly true because it was a very, very high level world cup, the technical ability, you know, in other words, the climbing ability and the gliding ability is pre is within a few percent, you know, from, from, in, in the, in the most, in most of the pilots, it's within a few percent, right.

So that difference, you know, the winning or the top 10, or, you know, being consistent is here. It's up, it's up top, it's in your head. It's the strategy, it's the little things. What can you tell the audience about, you know, some of the tips and tricks and things that you've learned, or things that focus on, you know, over your last 20 something years of experience, when it comes to comps that, that have consistently helped you in results.

Speaker 3 (30m 21s): Maybe I also need to rewind a bit here because my comp comp experience like plastic central comps, 150 people meet, or a hundred or whatever, right. At one place. And do this thing that we love so much to do is only 10 years from my now 25 years of flying. So before I was kind of the more, some, either style, you know, big cross country. So I was doing the online contest, right.

So multiple German champion, there was a time when I was really, really into this. Right. And I flew some trainers. And then I heard later that some people started calling it, you know, my name triangle Tyrkas triangle. And I'm sorry,

Speaker 2 (31m 10s): I, I'm a, I'm an ex, I'm an ex contest junkie buddy. I've been watching your name for years. I think I've even, I've even reached out to you on XContest a few times with trying to get beta on certain parts. Cause you know, that pin's scout zone really well, but yeah, it's, you've, you've sent some huge ones through there.

Speaker 3 (31m 28s): Yeah. That one was like, this triangle was in the Garmisch area because I was living in closer to Garmisch back then. And I always said, I rather fly farther and dry far, you know, so I wanted to do it from where I lived that was like starting in garments and flying all the way, you know, to Brigham, almost to the lake potency and then in tile. And then , you know, all of these valleys. So I can tell you all the way to the main other threats. So I think the biggest back then was like 275 FIA, which I did.

Speaker 2 (32m 2s): And

Speaker 3 (32m 4s): Then I've been a couple of times German champion. I was like, yeah, okay. Now, you know, so what are we going to do now? And, and I thought, okay, maybe I go back to, I try to central comp long, long time ago before that, you know, and I was, it was all raining. And I was like, why would you do that? You know, like you take your precious holy days to sit in the rain. And I was like math. And then we went to Mexico in fact for a holiday and said, let's combine that, you know, I knew there was a monarchy open and that was my first cop, basically like 10 years ago.

More or less. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32m 42s): Okay. Wow. That would have been about my first comp probably

Speaker 3 (32m 47s): In fact, I think we, you were there. I I've been twice in WIA and I remember one time we definitely shared a ride to the takeoff and we're having a chat on the right. I don't know which one it was if it was, if it was the first one or the second time I've been in by, it could be the first one, in fact. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33m 8s): Yeah. That, I think that was my first was, was 2012 or maybe it's 2013 was my first, but I haven't missed it since. I mean, well, obviously COVID, I missed it, but, but Monarch is special.

Speaker 3 (33m 20s): I agree. It's one of the best for me was Columbia. For sure. Columbia is like a, you know, a softer via the Bible type flying. But to answer your question, so learning number one was okay, you're alone some Eagle and you're really good at it. But in a comp you must be a really, really, really fucking Regal style lonesome, some Eagle, but even he stays with the group.

Right. So stay with the group has maybe one of the learnings that I learned rather early. And it was pretty stressful for me in the beginning to fly with so many people. Right. Especially, and it's still stressful, especially when it's close to the terrain and it's ugly terrain, like in dissenters, like cliff face and too many people. And you know, there is not a lot of room for error, right. So I find that still stressful. And then I still would fly away for safety reasons basically.

So that is one it's really, really hard to be better by yourself rather than utilizing the swarm intelligence. Right. So that was definitely one learning. The other basic, I think that is really, really important is you must be able to control your wing when you fly, no matter what wing it is, but people coming into comms and, you know, for example, the Enzo is, is flyable for a lot of people, but is it really controllable when the shit hits the fan for them?

You know, are they able to control it? So that is really, I think, very important. And so if you go to some Charbroil open or, you know, like this newcomer comes or also cross-country flying, whatever you do fly the way you are comfortable with and you are in control, you know, because then you have the mental capacity to focus on everything else. You have capacity to observe. What's the weather doing? What's the weight and doing where it's the sun, you know, like all the lady, lady for cross country flying, but also what are the others doing?

You know, why is this guy breaking away? What does he see that I don't see no, all of these things that add up

Speaker 2 (35m 51s): Or what, or what does it, or what does it, do you see? It, who is doing it, doing it? That's a big one.

Speaker 3 (36m 8s): So exactly. I think this is, this is really, really important. And with what I, what do I mean when we control finally, if you really simplified, it's all pitch control, angle of attack control. So only job you have is to keep the angle of attack in the right window. Not too big, not too small, too big, too small collapse frontal. So yeah, and for that, I think every pilot and I also, when I, when sometimes I give a talk, you know, and ask, when should I step up and say, okay, you need to know your stall point.

Ideally you can stall the wing smoothly and go and turn a nice fly back your reset button, fly back, be able to spend a wing, ideally 180 degrees so that you can basically, oh, something is ugly here. You know, I need to quickly turn around, which is almost impossible on the aircraft we fly, but yet 180 degrees spin installed point again on one side, it started so many accidents happen because people try to squeeze their wing, you know, around the corner and they stole it.

They spin it on one side. So that is important. And then I add to it, you should be comfortable flying, ideally for the speed collapses on your way from pools or site collapses, best dispose. And when you are comfortable doing all that on the wing, you fly. And then when it starts to be boring, then you can consider stepping up.

Speaker 2 (37m 54s): So when all, when you have that totally down, if that just doesn't even get your heart rate up, then, then you might be ready.

Speaker 3 (37m 59s): Yeah. But I mean, that's of course unrealistic because also my heart rate still goes up when I go stalling and I go stalling a lot because I want to keep current with my practice. So winter time or no, sir, all the time I go stalling.

Speaker 2 (38m 14s): And are you, are you doing that over the dirt or over the water,

Speaker 3 (38m 18s): But

Speaker 2 (38m 19s): Yeah. So you just, you go off your local hill and just get

Speaker 3 (38m 23s): The only SIV I did water was this very first one after 50 flights.

Speaker 2 (38m 28s): Wow. Really? So everything since then has been over.

Speaker 3 (38m 32s): I don't recommend it to be honest, just to very clear, I do not recommend it to the, you know, standard pilot population to do it like this. But once you are comfortable stalling, I think you can do a lot over dirt and I was pushing my limit, but this is also maybe I think a good advice for everybody push your limit, but push it slowly, slowly, slowly, gradually. Right. And back then it wasn't standard to have two rescues. So I had one and I knew, okay, I have one rescue.

And so I better not use it. I don't fuck it up. You know? So I would go stalling when I felt comfortable and the conditions were good and everything, but I always had wings kind of like, I always had high performance waves, right. In the beginning. I wanted to have a wing that could do both. That could go like cross country, but you could also have some fun with it doing some maneuvers. Nowadays I have a freestyle waiting for that with a co Honduras and also two rescues, but I never needed my rescues and $3,000 or so flights twenty-five years.

And they were through my rescue because of need of a rescue. Nope. Never.

Speaker 2 (39m 40s): Or was it, was it hard for you to change from the, you know, the big FAS where obviously you're still using a lot of Barre to fly, you know, a two 70 FAI in a day, but you know, for me still, even to this day, I don't use bar. When I go on big flights, like I do on a comp I mean, in a cop you're just stomping all the time. And w was it, was it pretty natural for you to speed wise and speed bar usage wise for you to make the transition from big, big XC flights to, to comps?

Cause it wasn't really, for me, it was a whole nother learning curve of using bar and a lot of that's because here we fly, we go down when a lot, you know, we don't have weather to, to allow for the FAS, you know, we don't have the antelope set up here at all. So often we're just going down wind and you just don't need as much bar, but, but we should probably, we should. The thing we always talked about is we need to be using more bar, you know, to go bigger and, and, but in a cop you're using it all the time. It's just, for me, it's a different mindset, you know, when I go to a cop, okay, I'm using more bar.

Speaker 3 (40m 50s): No, not for me because make-ready dictates bar. So if you want to fly efficient, if you, you need to bring up your average speed, otherwise you don't fly 300 or whatever, you know, 200 plus FAA. And, and that's maybe also a difference because yeah, okay. In the beginning, you know, I wanted to fly from Germany all the way to Italy, which I did. Right. So with the wind, basically one way I did it in the beginning, like everybody more, one ways realizing, okay, the second part of the adventure getting home, you know, just takes also basically a lot of time almost.

Yeah. As a rule of thumb, it was always, okay, you fly seven hours, one direction, you need seven hours to get home. Right. That was like roughly the math behind it. And then I said, okay, I prefer to do something like close to, you know, flat triangles or FIA triangles. Of course it's like the best FIA triangle. This is what you do. Right. If you want to this, this sexy. And first I was also pushing bar already a lot because when it's right also in a comp you don't push.

That was also maybe a learning. I raised myself to the ground quite often in the beginning.

Speaker 2 (42m 19s): Don't you think that's necessary though,

Speaker 3 (42m 21s): For the learning? Yeah, probably

Speaker 2 (42m 24s): Go through that stage. Yeah. I mean to, you know, I mean, I I've heard Aaron dura gaudy. I mean, some of the, some of the folks that have had a ton of success, you know, they, they all talk about going through this phase where, you know, the, the beginning step step one first phase is, is staying with the gaggle, you know, having enough skills to climb as well as the gag is delete gaggle and, and pick and decent enough lines that you can stay with them. And then phase two is, you know, , I would say it, you know, is pushing obviously he's way beyond phase two, but I mean, but in terms of the learning side, you know, you, you push and you bomb out and you, you know, you, you, you take a little bit of ego hit for a couple years and learn how to fly fast, learn how to make your own decisions.

And then you kind of start putting it all together in phase three, where you can pimp when it's the right thing to pimp and lead out when it's the right way to lead out, get the leading points, but not be overly aggressive. You know, Russ Auden,

Speaker 3 (43m 22s): I think you summarized it very well. And the talk with you, I think it was right. And I agree. So finally it is to be a successful ComPilot. I realized that you need to be able to strike the right balance between attack and controlled, slow down a bit.

Right. Also, especially when conditions switch. So switching gear part, I mean, there are days that are, as you said, crushing bar all day long, and then there it's climbing. So finally we all, if we all fly full bar, yeah. You can't gain anything. Right. Because everybody is flying full bar. So then it's your climbing abilities and your ability. And this is also very important, but very difficult to learn lines, nines, lines, lines, Columbia, you know, you hit the shitty line.

You go from zero to zero, you hit a good line. Ooh. I am catching up with the top guns, you know, like yeah. And all of this together makes this game so interesting complex on one hand. But I think this complexity also makes it a very interesting game to play.

Speaker 2 (45m 1s): Yes. Don't don't you feel like? I feel like often it comps there's, there can really be a lot of lemming flying onlines. Do you, do you feel that I I've. I often sense that it can be pretty easy to catch up, you know, if you, if you get dropped, if you, if you blow it, you know, even in Columbia, when it's really fast, if, you know, because I feel like, you know, the, the lead gaggle will often stay so glued together in a sense that, you know, like you said, you can be, it can often be a pretty nice place to be, to be just behind that.

And you can pick out a better line and suddenly, boom you're you're you can kind of play a little bit of leapfrog, but I find that lines are like you said, you, you can, it can destroy you and it can really hero you. And, but I often see, you know, a whole bunch of people on not a great line and, and just not being searchy enough. I don't know that.

Speaker 3 (46m 0s): Yeah. Maybe it's because they just want to stay with their group, especially with it when it's the lead group. But I must also say at least on a really high level comp like in Columbia, it was the world cup or in Germana or wherever, you know, like where really all the top, top, top guys come mistakes are paid for. And at least for me, it is, I don't find it so easy to catch up because, you know, then they are smart enough in this gagging and they spread out a bit and misleading.

Sometimes it even splits, you know? And then I, me personally, I find it pretty hard to catch up. Basically. It's only possible when they make a mistake or they have some hangups somewhere, you know, because they have to thermal something weak because they raised too much to the ground. And, you know, so, but if they don't get stuck and they continue we'll speed, boom, Thurman for the speed, boom, Thermo, and they're so good and efficient. It's impossible to catch up.


Speaker 2 (47m 5s): There, if they're being a fish. Yeah. I should clarify that. If I said easy, I didn't mean that it's never easy, but the, but the I've just found that the, the line sometimes can be where you can really grab an advantage and I'm, and I'm not, and I'm not good at them. I'm just saying that if you're, if you're willing to stay searchy, just like we are, when we climb, you can often oh, you know, and like you said, sometimes it's just, you got to stay with them and hammer bar, even if you're not in a good line, cause you don't want to lose them. But sometimes it's pretty worth just moving a little bit.

Now this isn't Larry. Good line. I'm going to just move.

Speaker 3 (47m 40s): Yeah. Especially flatland. So I think we must differentiate here. Flatland flying versus mountain flying because mountain flying the line is the line, right? I mean, you don't suddenly start searching over the valley, you know, with the model, you know, the model when you really painted with the honey and you turn it around. So basically you stay where the triggers are. That's your line right along the Ridge basically.

Or if it's rich racing like in Bassano or wherever. Yeah. There is only one line like, and that's it. But Columbia or Macedonia or flatlands in general, there, it can make sense to search a bit more. And there you have more of this impact of lines. I read also now in Brazil, apparently I also never made it to . So I always wanted to go to

Speaker 2 (48m 40s): My friend watching this Cobb and they're, they're just starting day seven accident China right now. And I've never been to buy shoe. I wanted to go so bad this year and I had to cancel, but it was, it looks good down there. Oh, seven days. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48m 53s): I mean, similar, like you, I have other obligations. I have a family and you know, I have a job and I can't be everywhere. It's impossible. And it's a torture, but I think we, we don't need to cry too loud because we've been in Columbia and it's been really great

Speaker 2 (49m 17s): Well, okay. So that's a good transition to you. So you did the, you know, you did the crusher big flights. That was the real focus for a long time. And I still see you doing that. I know you're still doing that now, but, but you're in your, you know, German team whole bunch of times, and you're right at the top right now in the world. What are your goals now? You know, you've been doing the racing thing for the last 10 years, you know, I, I've never, I started racing about 10 years ago as well, but I haven't done it at your level. I've been more focused on the X ops and that kind of takes me out of comps for a year.

But now I'm really thinking, I think I'd really like to put some time and energy into that. And at the same time, I think, gosh, is that a worthy endeavor? I don't know. You know, I'm curious, is it, is it something you're still really passionate about? Do you love it? Do you, do you want to keep pushing that side of things?

Speaker 3 (50m 6s): Absolutely. I love it. You

Speaker 2 (50m 7s): Like, you like racing.

Speaker 3 (50m 9s): I love racing and I think I still have a long way to, you know, get better and learn, you know, this okay. I'm in the top 15 of the world, but you know, like for example, I've never been on the world cup podium or Europeans. Okay. Europeans. I will six and the world in Argentina was nine. So top 10 also, I've been at the world cup top 10, top 10 is a good result, right? Sure.

Is always good. But top three or top five is better. I also felt top 10 in the world sounds better than 15, but maybe that's just a side effect. Right? Because like you can't and you talked a lot about it with, you know, colleagues and you know, these results oriented goals go must tell you us as it as well. Right. It doesn't make sense if you can only try to improve yourself and your type of flying.

And my goal is to become a better board, let's say, right. Be more elegant, be better, be more efficient, be more in control of the wing and be a better pilot still. And I think this journey never ends. And, and, and I think that's also the, the good part about it and flying the comps. I, I think that it's a bit different because first of all, I haven't won them.

Boom, boom, boom. Like, you know, like for the other thing, like if I keep winning everything, okay. Maybe it starts to be boring. I don't know, but I don't see that happening because I still have other obligations and they can only do as good as I can do. And I can't do so many cons. So because, so I cannot compare, let's say to Hohnadell who flies? I don't know, 1000 hours a year or whatever, it's his job to fly. Right. So I'd probably never be as good as him, but I'd like to be, and there is potential, right.

I can sniff it a bit here and there. And you know, I have my highlights, but what I also really do like about the coms is the, the community, the it's a bit of a social aspect too. Right. Was it compared to the lonesome Eagle thing? Because you meet, like, you meet the people all over the world and then continue. But a lot of faces have been there for a long time, like you, right. And so I'm, I'm happy to see you, Hey, Gavin, you know, like or whoever.

And I mean, I don't see you much like, or, or the other side of it outside of it. Right. So you just those guys during, and you know, and you make people from all over the world or in Europe and know I can apply some language skills here, there, you know, I speak Spanish and English and Czech German. So it's also fun, you know, to speak with those guys and speak with those guys and have a beer together afterwards. And you know, it's the thrill, but then also like the community and then, you know, the, and let's have a beer afterwards.

I like it.

Speaker 2 (53m 30s): It's fun. Daniel. We talked in Columbia that one of the things you're really most proud of. And you've you give talks about this, and I know you talked about it in your, in your podcast and the, the, the German podcast, 25, something years of flying now, no accidents. And as we started the show, you know, you're not risk averse. You were in the Olympics, in the pipe, you know, so you, you know, you, you do, you take risks. You're obviously very comfortable with risk. You know, these big flights, the two seventies and stuff, and the bigger one, you know, these huge FAS that involves risks, you find in the league, what do you, what do you chalk up this, this very safe run to

Speaker 3 (54m 13s): Luck maybe should be part of it.

Speaker 2 (54m 17s): Of course

Speaker 3 (54m 17s): There is. But I think it's w I try to calculate the risk, you know, like really a risk reward part of it, and the best way to mitigate risk. And I think I said it before already is skill. So if you're a really skilled and smart, so don't be dumb, right.

Don't take dumb decisions. Right. I, and I also had close calls, right? I mean, no doubt about that. So that's why there was a bit of luck involved as well, for sure. But I think it's skill is like, you know, in snowboarding or any other sports surfing, let's take surfing as an example. If you're not a good surfer, you wouldn't even dare to go out in the big conditions. You know, like you wouldn't even manage because first of all, you see the waves, how big they are.

And second, you try to go out and you probably don't even manage the shore break. You've got, just get spat out. And well, if

Speaker 2 (55m 29s): You never

Speaker 3 (55m 30s): Even get there, you probably will be sped out half drunk, half drowned, right round. And so knowing, being able to assess the conditions and match them to your honest, reflected skill level, I think this is what helps you stay safe, right?

So your skill level must match the conditions you're trying to fly in and the wise decisions. So, as I said, if it's maybe in belief side and I would never, for example, push bar into the lead side full on when I don't have it say a hundred meters, right. Better, 150, because hundred 50, My threshold, 50 for the shit to happen, 50 to assess, can I fix it and 50 for the rescue to work, but that is already like really on the limit.

Right. That's very close. And okay. Then it makes a difference. Is it for Rocky ugly terrain below? Or is it all a dense, nice forest? And then the worst case. Okay. I go down in the woods, nice to be hanging in a priest. I don't want that experience, but for you or your friends. Right. But then forest, you probably won't be heavily injured. So, so that you must take into account in your risk calculation. But having said all that, and I knock on wood here is, is there is a remaining risk.

And I think we'll get to that as well. That, which we are taking. Right. But you're taking, I mean, let's call it living, right. You're driving a car. There is risk. You leave the house risk. Right. And so, yeah, but it's too much fun.

Speaker 2 (57m 35s): You had a, you, you, it remind me, you had a crazy incident in dissenting, which that sounded like a dicey. Everybody I've talked to you about the scientists said it was really on the edge at times, you know, with the Lea and the wind. And didn't, you have a barely clear the ground or something when you, you had a collapse and near the cliff wall, but you talk about that. That was crazy. You told me. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58m 1s): Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That was one of the closest calls. In fact I ever had. And typical thing, yes, it was, we were racing along the cliff, Rocky faces and there was like a shoulder and the wind was coming like from sermons, like on the right side kind of thing. But it was also this like kind of northerly northwesterly. And I believe that, you know, I came there and I saw the others climbing away.

I wasn't in front front, but, you know, I saw them taking that line or not look good. And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna follow. But when I reached that kind of shoulder, it was ugly air, you know, I felt it. And I was like, I don't like that. I, you know, release bar and I want to have more ground clearance. And so as I fly away from the terrain, I believe it, I hit like a, some sort of road or basically coming a sideways road or maybe combined people can see me combined with a standard classic downwind rotor, and I'm flying away.

And while I was still maybe on half bar, but boom, you know, the terrain side of my wing collapsed, which is kind of really nothing you want to have. And so there is another, another golden rule I have, I want to have enough space to make at least one turn to the terrain, right. One full 360 to have that space. And I needed it. And I used all my skills I had from, you know, recovering wings.

And, but it was one of these events where everything slows down and, you know, like I was like, okay, this is really, really going to need full focus. Right. And I managed to recover and I, I, it was really close. Right. I mean, I even touched the ground and fly away.

Speaker 2 (1h 0m 3s): Whoa. So you had the collapse, it's spongy towards the hill. You caught it flew away and your asset, the ground on the way out.

Speaker 3 (1h 0m 13s): I kind of, I kind of stall it and my acid hit the hits, the grass. It was a grassy patch then already. Yeah. And that reminded me, it was a good wake up call and a good reminder to stay with these golden rules, 150 meter above the ground enough space to make the spin toward terrain. No matter what your skill set is, you might get an entry, the air and anticipate. And you know, like I kind of felt I it's not, it's getting ugly and yeah.

Everything close to the terrain, this dangerous.

Speaker 2 (1h 0m 51s): Yeah. There, there are things that there are things that can happen to us. That skill doesn't matter too much anymore. You know, if you don't have the train clearance, you know, it's, you don't want to, you don't want to be relying on miracles.

Speaker 3 (1h 1m 4s): Yeah. But skill, I think still helps because it makes a big difference if you impact out of a pendulum because you let your wings shoot or your head you're you're, you're, I'm skilled enough and aware enough that, okay, I can't recover it maybe, and I don't have enough height. Okay. Let's keep the wing above my head no matter what it looks like, but no pendulum. So, and I mean, I visualized a lot, everything, you know, like I do a lot of, I never, it's not true.

I threw my rescue ones because it needed a repack. So, and it was in winter time, man. I was scared. I would've preferred to do five food stalls rather than throw my rescue through my arrest. I flew straight, you know, and I was like, okay, how high am I over the landing field? Okay. This should do, ah, maybe wait a little bit because I don't want to search for my container right now.

I'm going to do it. I had a steerable went through and I wanted to try, you know, the steering part of it took me a while to position and do okay. Now I throw it, you know, and then I throw it. And in the steering pot I met at the thing opened and I was looking, okay, my container is going this way and okay, let's release the glider here. And then, okay, now we could start steering. Oh no, the ground's already here. So

Speaker 2 (1h 2m 36s): It all happens pretty quick. Yeah. Th the videos that earth Hari puts out are really terrific for that. Cause he's doing it every day, just over and over and over again. And it makes you realize how much there is to do, you know, disabling the way I did the same thing. When I flew, I threw down in Columbia a bunch of years ago on the E-box on a practice day. And right when I got there, everybody said, oh, you know, roll. The Neo is different this year, it's all spicy. And it's, it's really strong. And I had just come from a Narcan and I just cannot, what are you talking?

This isn't, it's not strong in Columbia. And it was pretty strong. Anyway, I lost my weight. And when I, I, when I went to throw, I actually waited for quite a long time. Cause my wing was okay. It was just, you know, it was, I was too low to try to do something else or I wasn't comfortable trying to do something else. Cause there were lots of power lines. And so I thought, okay, I'm just going to fly out over the bench. Cause I was back over the D drops away and not that okay, I'm going to fly because there was little, teeny, tiny field. Otherwise it was all just forest. And I thought, okay, I'll get to Winward of that teeny tiny field then all through.

I mean, I had lots of time to think about this and I'll throw in, I'll steer it in and maybe I'll just be able to relaunch from there, you know? And cause I had a steerable, so I did, I did all that. But by the time I through and the, I was on the ground, I mean I never even got to the chance of trying to, it takes a while, you know, and I wasn't able, I just packed it up and flew out of there. It was great. It all worked out really well. But, but yeah, it's, it takes, it takes a bit of time. I mean, disabling, the glider is that's a big step, you know,

Speaker 3 (1h 4m 10s): I have quick outs for that reason. Yeah. I think it only makes sense. They have quick outs. I have a released system for my bar. I basically pull and I use it and it's maybe we haven't talked about it, but passive safety. So that's also an important part for me. So yeah. To reserves

Speaker 2 (1h 4m 35s): God, I have, I have a whole nother set of that stuff I need. I just haven't put it on my with my

Speaker 3 (1h 4m 40s): Yeah. So I have them for various reasons. Right. Mainly because of the because then it's more easy and faster to okay, boom. Then gone, right. Or you have it on one break or whatever. And then the whole system works a lot better. Number one. So put it on second. I used them already when I was landing backwards, you know, in howling wind. And you know, then I just touched down and the moment I touched down, I, and my wing is completely disabled.

Right? I'm not being dragged through any few.

Speaker 2 (1h 5m 14s): You just, you just, you just get rid of one

Speaker 3 (1h 5m 17s): Both when you do, you

Speaker 2 (1h 5m 19s): Just let it go.

Speaker 3 (1h 5m 20s): But basically you keep your brakes, right? And then your witness landing softly on the brakes, even howling winter, you can easily manage it. So that's another reason. Well, who knows you have some shit going on, you, you, you, you mess up river, even a Creek, whatever you want to be able to get rid of it. And for that reason, I also carry a hook knife, big fucking proper hoax knife, you know, with a proper cuts, everything.

I tried, it cuts through four layers of webbing like butter, like right. So I never used it. I never use the, you know, I, but I heard stories also people coming down on rescues, you know, one on one almost disappeared in, in a crevice, in a glacier, you know, because when do you pull rescue when it's ugly and howling and really ugly, right. Otherwise, why wouldn't we need a rescue normally? And so I want to be able to cut away the rescue on the other guy.

I know he, he was dragged into her beam and he ended up being like, he was bandaged like a mummy top to toe

Speaker 2 (1h 6m 39s): From just getting pulled through the stuff with high winds.

Speaker 3 (1h 6m 43s): So that's another reason I think it's good to carry a proper hook knife. And thirdly, and this is I think also big danger. And that's why I think we should all be very friendly and very respectful with each other in the schedules and then not collision. That is. Yeah. And I, I, so as soon as I should have any lines around my head or neck, you know, I just take the hook knife and like, you know, I would go with Jack and then stick with the hook all around myself before pulling the rescue,

Speaker 2 (1h 7m 17s): Get rid of that stuff. This is the, this is the, this is the one side of the sport that I frequently find. You know, in, in a sense, when you're at a world cup, you feel better about being really close because everybody's really good. But you know, we had the world cup in Turkey, this, this fall. I don't know if it was, cause there was, there was a lot of pilots there that had never been in a world cup. It was, you know, it was, there was 30 or so spots open, I think because of COVID and everything else. So I don't know if it was that, but there were, it was insanely aggressive.

And especially before the start, which just infuriates me. And I, I, I find that, you know, we don't, we don't see gliders blown up that much, you know, these days we, what we see as mid airs and that, that part of it is spooky. I don't like that. And it does. It's unnecessary to,

Speaker 3 (1h 8m 12s): Well, I haven't, I haven't seen many. And basically the guy goes, I choose to fly with. Of course, obviously it's the good ones. Right? So if I fly with a good friend, she is, I am going to go really close with them or with the really good Germans, you know, it's cool because I know everyone is away. Everyone is watching it, everybody, you know, like, and they react as well. I had one also in the sentence by the way, but the one previous world cup, I was circling together with fairly, you know, and, and I took a collapsed on the outside and kind of lifted me and kind of spun me towards him.

And I was like, that guy, don't worry as I see you, you know? So he just made some space and we continued terminating together. I didn't lose a lot of height or anything. Right. But just for a second too, I wasn't able to steer my glider where I wanted to go. Right. Because of course, when you have a big collapse and it's a leafy thermal, and you're being punched up with six meters per second and you know, half of your wingers missing rather than you're not steering so much, right.

You're fixing, you're fixing, you're not steering, you're fixing it. And, and then there's of course helps when you have really good pilots around you. That can also, for example, quickly spin the wing, you know, to make space for you if necessary or whatever.

Speaker 2 (1h 9m 43s): Sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah. It's surprising when you're, when you're with the leek gaggle, how, you know, Nope. Nobody's, nobody's worried about too much, you know, you're, you're nice and tight on everybody and it all just

Speaker 3 (1h 9m 56s): Love

Speaker 2 (1h 9m 56s): That moment. Love that motion, you know, the motion or the birds and everybody we're all just so in tune. I mean, everybody's trying to beat each other, but you're also just working together and you know, you could just be within inches and he's got me. I got him. We're good.

Speaker 3 (1h 10m 11s): Yeah, exactly. Beautiful. It's beautiful. And you know, you see the green under his full face helmet. I mean, you don't see the green, but you see the grid, right. I at least that's what I imagined. And we're enjoying ourselves. We are growing up and yeah. You know, we got the ballistic Thermo go for it.

Speaker 2 (1h 10m 37s): We're all adding wrinkles to our eyeballs and ma and mows. Every time we fly our always from the smiling

Speaker 3 (1h 10m 43s): And people are not having polyps. These, this level of people, we are not having polyps or ceremony, the people are in control, which is cool to be part of it.

Speaker 2 (1h 10m 55s): That is cool. This is cool. This, this may be too obvious of a question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. When I read in the commentary, when we were down at Columbia, that honorings has been on the podium in 40, I think she said 41% of the races he's been in, which has just mind blowing. I mean, I can't imagine there's anybody else that's even at 10, but you know, we, there's all the obvious things, what you see a thousand hours a year or whatever it is, you know, this is his job, but what, what are the things that maybe aren't so obvious?

You know, what, what are the things, why is he so consistent? Cause that's incredible. Consistent.

Speaker 3 (1h 11m 37s): I don't know. I asked him, he doesn't know. I mean, he's probably also just a really good talent and he has a good head space. And you know, if he's observative, he's just doing less mistakes than we do. Right. I mean, we all do mistakes and the little mistakes, it's maybe just little mistakes and little mistakes add up. And so maybe he is doing least mistakes.

I don't know if I would know it. I would copy it. Try to, I think it's all the pieces and because it's such a complex game, I think it's really hard to pinpoint it down to one thing. Right. It's impossible. I think, I think he's just really good in all aspects. I mean, he's just from another planet. Maybe, maybe he's an alien. I don't know.

Maybe, maybe he was, he, maybe he was a bird in his previous life or whatever. I don't know. I mean, Luke is also really good and got more and, and, and dress. Ooh. I mean like, you know, he shows up and he's consistent to experience. Surely experience is also part of it, you know?

Speaker 2 (1h 13m 2s): Yeah. I was just going to say, I mean, you just threw out three names that fly almost every day. You know, they're flying in gore Dawn and they're testing wings and they're out, they're out on the hill almost every day. And you know, so there's no magic here is there, it's just time, you know, and experience hours, hours,

Speaker 3 (1h 13m 20s): Hours, hours, and hours help. I mean, luckily we're not flying even though we are not running marathon where, you know, you need to consistently train, train, train, or you lose your physique. Right. Lose it. If you, if you stop running for a week or two, like yeah. Or you know it about the experts, right. You need to build, it takes long and you lose it quickly, all this endurance stuff. So it's not so much the insurance that we need. Right. So you can have a break for a month and you can still be good.

Right. But of course it helps. The more hours you have, the better you fly pitch, these nuances, right. You will have better. We can control you climb better. You feel more comfortable. You, you climb, oh, 0.1 or 0.2, whatever better than because you're so current. So surely the hours are part of the game, but there are people that maybe don't fly so many hours and still show up and oh no.

Speaker 2 (1h 14m 24s): Yeah, it does. It does seem like there's a bit of a key in, in the game where, okay, you're right the honor. And the Luke's the Russ there they're at another level. But you know, when you do see a lot of consistency at these world cups, you know, race after race, after race. And it seems to me that there are, there are pilots too who have somewhere along the line have gotten the key they've they've gotten the golden key and they've unlocked the door. And to them, like you said, it's, it's not quite like riding a bike, but it's pretty close.

You know, they they've figured out the little things that, in other words, it's not just totally create, you know, we, we all have good days. We all can show up at a comp and just have one and have a good comp. But, but to do it all the time isn't isn't, to me is another level.

Speaker 3 (1h 15m 11s): There are some people that are really consistent Chilean , you know, they're are also really consistent. I mean, there may be not, but prints, you know, they show up at that comp and authority. So a very good example, right. They show up at the comp and they're in the top 10. Yeah. Well, let's say in the top 20%, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (1h 15m 38s): Daniel, what a treat, man. I really appreciate it. I'm glad we got to do this. It's good to get to know you a little bit better. And also just can't wait to find some more, man. I got all fired up in Columbia and I'm building a house this year, so I'm not going to be able to do it as much, but hope to see in Macedonia

Speaker 3 (1h 15m 57s): To see,

Speaker 2 (1h 15m 59s): I hope to do. And then super final buddy, where we're going to Mexico.

Speaker 3 (1h 16m 5s): No more holidays. I'm don't have enough holidays. I calmed. I mean, I spent already two weeks and I have a standard engineering job. You know, I have a standard job. I must cope with 30 days of holidays. And I must also my family, at least I do I'll do Macedonia. I do the German open. I do some smaller ones in between, but I already looked at the calendar and in shock, I realized I don't have enough left for,

Speaker 2 (1h 16m 37s): Oh, it's too bad. It wasn't a January. You need the, you need the flip of the year. But

Speaker 3 (1h 16m 41s): Yeah, exactly. I already spent two weeks, you know, which I normally don't. It took me eight years to come back to Columbia.

Speaker 2 (1h 16m 48s): Wow. Okay. All right. Well, like I said, we're, we're in no position to cry about and we don't we're we're we're doing all right, but well, good while seeing the Macedonia and I can't wait and thank you very much, my friend. I appreciate it. Thanks for your time. If you find the

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