Episode 147- Special Red Bull X-Alps Podcast with the Salewa athletes

Red Bull X-Alps Prologue, 2021. Photo Ben Horton.

I sat down for a special edition of the Cloudbase Mayhem directly after the Red Bull X-Alps Prologue yesterday with my Salewa teammates Paul Guschlbauer, Aaron Durogati, Markus Anders, Chrigel Maurer, Simon Oberrauner, and Tommy Friedrich to find out how they are feeling going into the race, what they are most concerned about with the course, how they take care of their body for 12 days of pounding, how they train, what they changed coming into this race, funny stories from previous editions, critical gear choices and a lot more. We all had a blast with this and we hope you enjoy. The race kicks off Sunday, we hope you’ll follow along and cheer us on!

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Show Notes: 

  • Paul talks about his broken leg this spring and how he feels going into the 2021 race
  • Paul talks about how he’s changed his approach this year
  • Paul talks about how things have changed since having his son George and starting a family
  • Paul talks about critical gear for the race
  • Aaron recounts some funny exhaustion stories in the air and on the ground
  • Aaron talks about how he takes care of his feet
  • Aaron talks about how he trains and how he’s gotten so fast at going uphill
  • Markus discusses his injury at the end of the 2019 race
  • Markus talks about his approach this year and how to stay in Flow
  • Chrigel gives us his take on the course and what areas he’s worried about
  • Chrigel talks about what physical aspects of the race need the most training
  • Chrigel talks about his approach and getting back together with Thomas Theirillat
  • Simon speaks about what he’s changing going into his 3rd race
  • Simon talks about the importance of attitude, especially when you make mistakes
  • Simon discusses his most important pieces of kit
  • Tommy discusses his podium in the Prologue
  • Tommy discusses the loss of his father and what he’d say to him now going into the race


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Speaker 0 (0s): Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode, Cloudbase, Mayhem, and a real special one for you today. As we just had the prologue here, they X outs and the main race kicks off Sunday. I thought it'd be really fun to sit down with my teammates at saliva and do little short snippets on whole bunch of different topics on how they're feeling their prep, how they take care of their body during the race and a good story stuff that you set that happens when you're exhausted.

So from the pastor he says, and so your going to hear from POL Guschlbauer, this is his 63 days, and of course he broke his foot ski and back in April, and he pretty charged hard today and scaling pretty good and hear from Aaron Durogati 2013 was his first and this is his fifth. And of course he destroyed his knee in 2017 and think he was second to the top today, and then had, we had a pretty wild ride to the prologue, but man was fast on the ground and you're going to hear from Markus Anders.

And this is his second into a really good race. And 2019 until we get hurt kinda late and out of this. And then the great course creedal Mauer and his thoughts on going into his seventh, Thomas, their lows were supportive for the first four and whole bunch of great stuff there that the Eagle and then Simone Oberrauner. We was right here and Austria, and this'll be his third race. And then Tommy Friedrich, the youngest ever, and the X helps us and got third today in the prologue.

So obviously one to watch really strong comes from the school leader who taught team on around her and Paul Guschlbauer. And I think when Paul competed in his first and he was pretty young at the time, Tom was just nine years old. So this was a blast. We had a lot of fun this afternoon, putting this together for you thought it'd be really fun to drop this right before the race. So enjoy this talk with a whole bunch of the Salewa team, slay the team Xcel's athletes didn't interview me amongst us on the Slater team, but there's plenty here to digest and enjoy it.

And yeah, the race is Sunday. We were all watching and joining

Speaker 1 (2m 32s): Paul today after we, we spent a wall. Yeah, it's been a while. We get to see you and good to see you. You had a, and an injury a while back, and this is, you know, people know about this, but how did you, how do you feel? What was your leg? Yeah, I, I had really super mixed feeling coming into this race when I broke it pretty much exactly. Three months ago, I thought, okay, that's it. That's my that's. I never, I never broke a bone before.

Okay. This is over, but I did everything I could for recovery. Of course, everything I can is like a different way. It's like interesting to say that because you, you can't do anything the first week, so you got a cash and then I was just sitting around. But then after that I got, I started moving pretty fast, again, a little bit faster than the doctors recommended, but it was like just on the edge of too much and not too early and too late, or she got into late, but in time.

And so yeah, it worked out it's it's now in normal day to day life it's pain-free and on the climb today, it was first time since four moms that I pushed a little bit or three months, I pushed a little bit harder and it was, it was okay. It's it's still, still, okay. I'm looking at it now. And, and it's not small and really a little bit compared to the other side. That's when we ran into each other the other day, I hadn't seen you in a while. And you said that you seem to be in a really good Headspace for this race.

You said, Hey, there's this time. There's no pressure. I don't care. You know, if, if I think I can get to the Guisborough, can we see after that? But if it, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (4m 16s): Yeah. Kind of a nice place to be. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (4m 19s): It's, it's definitely a good, good time. I'm having a good time. Yes, that's true. I like my daughter like flying, I like being outside and doing what I, what I love. So this is the races, what I love. And, and then of course today when Roanoke started, I was like, okay, that's racing again. But yeah. And then obviously I messed up the first Tomo, so I wasn't in the front, like, and that's right away with like, I could have done better,

Speaker 2 (4m 48s): Although I have competitive. It's a pro-life I could be only

Speaker 1 (4m 53s): Here. Yeah. Happy to be in the position that I came in. And, and that I'm here at all. When you first had the accident and there was the, oh, man, I may not be able to do this. What was that like? Because as you know, I told you I had a pretty bad crash two and a half weeks ago. And the first thing we went through my head was, well, there's no way I'm not going to be ready for The race. And it was kind of a strange sensation on one hand, I just thought, well, who cares? I I'm alive. And I'm okay. I'll, you know, I'll recover from this, but it was there. It was, it, it was that kind of hard. Yeah.

When I remember the situation right now, I can remember it pretty clear. And I knew that I was falling down and I was like, thinking I, it hurt. Does it hurt? Yeah. It hurts. It hurts. So that would be really bad if it's broken, that would mess up my whole thing. And what I, what am I gonna do? And I still have those thoughts in my head. And, and honestly, I was never thinking of not doing the race. I was always like, okay, it's somehow it would work. I mean, my body always heals fast, so great.

It's kinda, we were still young and yeah. Well,

Speaker 2 (5m 58s): I'm also getting older.

Speaker 1 (6m 1s): There are super young guys around here that are performing really well. And the pressure is rising for the old, we're going to talk later on to Thomas and Simon. And we were laughing on the way up to the photo shoot the other day that their combined age is my age. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (6m 16s): I was, I wasn't there

Speaker 1 (6m 17s): At Briggs. Herb's first time. He was nine years old and I was young when I did my first. Oh my God. So you had, you had the injury, but I wanted to, one of the questions I want to ask you, it's just, how, how did you change your preparation this year? I mean, obviously with the injury, you just had to work around that, but I know you were working with Thomas, Thomas Thurlow as I have been as well, but is this your sixth?

Six and the rest? Yeah. I'm wondering if, you know, from the last 1, 20 19, if there was a big, okay, this is something I'm going to do differently in anything physical. Well, there have been so many things that changed. Like I got a kid now, what I had, I had to deal with that as well. And channel life gets just like life changes when you get older, like I'm getting like growing up a little bit, of course things changed.

And what changed mostly for me or what, what, yeah. The channel feeling that I have is like, things have to be becoming more professional, like more focused. Okay. Everything I do, I need to, to set at that and for it and, and, and do it and then three other things and then like be more organized because there's just too many things I'm doing right now. Just a lot, just a lot. So, so, so I was actually, after the last race, I was thinking to be really focused on it and like to set goals, like to go into the training and the, that, and that, and that I never done it before.

I was always training. Like I was feeling like, okay, it's a nice day, go outside. I was always training. And then not saying, I'm not training, but now, now I was just thinking, okay, I'm gonna, and I want to do more things. I want to take care of my kid and I want to do a film production. I just got a first television show that I produced myself. So we kind of proud of it. Yeah. It was really cool. And also a lot of work. And I, I knew that everything is possible to do it, but you need to be really structured, like well organized.

And that's what I did. And I think I, I did really well. I had a very good preparation in the beginning, like the whole, whole first or the second half or yeah, second half of 2020. I was already really focusing on the race and everything went really, really well. I did more like forced, like with also, I've never done that before I've done like really plant endurance training and stuff like that.

And then somehow I thought, okay, this is maybe, maybe, maybe something wants to tell me that this is not your style first. No, at first I had Corona for three weeks and I got pretty bad. So I was like out for training for more than three weeks. And I thought, okay, that's it now. Okay. This is the break I needed. Now I'm going to get into it. Yeah. The whole family, even George, it was really scary. Yeah. I mean, Magdalena headed like free days and I had it for three weeks.

So what was the difference? Anyway, after that, I thought, okay, now is the time to really focus now for it. Then it took like three or four weeks after that were really good training. Like perfect. Everything was running perfectly. And then just on a small, little after noon training where I was already thinking, oh, maybe I shouldn't go train anymore because I'm tired. Blah, blah, blah. Whether it was bad, I broke my foot. Then he was like, always the last run of the day. What's going on?

Why, why do I try to do it really well? And then it comes totally different.

Speaker 2 (10m 13s): How have you found since having Georgia

Speaker 1 (10m 16s): And you just cause, you know, I had Fallon for years. And if you found your approach to flying, has it changed anything? Has it changed your risk, your ability to push? No, it hasn't. I was always trying to be safe all my life. I was really trying to avoid situations that are out of control. And so I'm still in the same kind of feeling when I fly.

Sometimes it happens to me that I think about George, for example, when I fly, which usually doesn't happen because I'm, I'm very focused as soon as I launch. And, but it doesn't make a big difference. It actually makes me happy that I, that I can show him that there's other jobs and sitting up there and an office all the time. And so I, I do it. And it's part of the game that there's a risk compared to other things, if you've ever experienced bad pain and any of the races, anything that's really stopped you or slowed you down because you haven't, you've never had to fold.

I don't believe right. You've but you've always been gone. Yeah. I mean, that was, I think this is my biggest like advantage that I have, like this, my body's really stable. I hardly get blisters, small ones, but I never, never had big problems with that. Do you have to do anything special to take care of your feet? I use like lean cream, cream and cream.

And I, whenever I feel like there's an itching spot, I put it on and just works for me. So it's like a lubricant. Yeah. It's like a lubricant, but it's called. And that was a, what was it? One of the athletes in 2011, I forgot his name. He's also writing in there. magazine. Hamza. Yeah, he was super cool. He came to me before the start and he's like, here, just scream. This it's called brave soldier, brave soldier.

And he gave it to me. I used it since then every race and it works perfectly. I don't get any blisters. I mean, it could be the shoes, the combination of shoes and cream, of course, saliva shoes fit really well on my feet. Do you use the kind of lower drop, like the ultra trains or do you use the, the drop lines? A little cushion. A little one. Yeah. I'm not a big fan of the high, how you choose? I feel unstable with it a little bit.

So I prefer the low ones and also I try to not hike on the, on the, on the flat. Anyway,

Speaker 2 (13m 0s): My strategy was always

Speaker 1 (13m 3s): And will always be to hike up. Yes. I like up to, I need to get better at that last question. Three most critical pieces of gear. When you think about the race, what are the things that, and this could be technology. I mean, obviously we can't do it without the wing, but you know, what are, what are the three things that we had? I got to have this in my bag or that this has to work, right?

Speaker 2 (13m 26s): Yeah. I mean, right now when

Speaker 1 (13m 29s): You asked this question, I can think of like 10 things.

Speaker 2 (13m 32s): basically

Speaker 1 (13m 36s): Everything that we carry makes sense. It's not that we carry things that don't make sense that we have to say that. But, but of course, I mean, everything that makes this kind of racing possible is what we need is the shoes to run. I mean, we can walk half naked. It will be fun. We do it naked,

Speaker 2 (13m 55s): But what, I would always wear shoes, but I would always

Speaker 1 (13m 58s): Wear shoes because then I can walk longer. But the other, other thing, and then you don't know what I needed. And then of course, backpack with gladder. What are like all this stuff and the better and lighter it is, the cooler it is. And then something, I mean, I mean, this is really like bad thing to get anywhere. And nowadays is just your smart phone everything's on there. And it's incredible what we can do. What I think of 2011 or even 13, one of those races, we were like, I was, I was always carrying a paper map and it was always having a hard time imagining how the mountain looks.

And now I look on a Google earth or whatever fat map program, and I just can see it and, and see the train. And I know exactly how it looks like. So it's really great. What you mentioned, Batman, what do you use for mapping? I love, we love that and how that's great. So I love what it, the slope angles Fatma is, is definitely there. But for planning, I use the Suunto app coordination with the watch. This is great. It works perfectly. You can just .

So you, you have the navigation in your, in your watch and you just hit the button, the chairs with your watch and right away, you have got the track on the phone, on your watch. So it's super easy. Yeah. Yeah. Every day I go outside and train, if I want to, even if I'm in an area that I know really well, and yeah, look at the phone first for two minutes. I do whatever I want to do. I plan it, got it on my watch. And I, I go for it because it has a backup. You're going to suddenly you miss a turn or you don't, you're not sure you don't have to take your phone out.

We can just what we put the word. Okay. What does keep me up to speed on it? And the big, and I have to mention it. I know we were

Speaker 2 (15m 48s): Already talking for a long

Speaker 1 (15m 50s): Time, but you have all these roots there that people hike a lot. So it's like it collects the data. So it's all open source, open source. So it has all the use trails in there, not only the trips. So you can see what people use, which is the, actually the ones that you want to use and not the ones that are getting overgrown. Okay. You want to show me some of that stuff? I just got the student. We will figure that out and best of luck in the race, of course, and excited to be back here with you to do it again. And I can't wait to see Magdalene and George and thanks, man.

Appreciate it. It's really cool to do it in person. It is final redundant. Yes. Finally. Thanks. Thanks. Good. Aaron fundraising with you today, you had a, he had a little bit of an epic. Yeah. It was basically everything which could go wrong. It went good to get that out of the way. Now it's good to get that out of the way now and the protocol. Yeah, yeah. In a way. Yes. But to see the positive things of today race, it was that since very long, I was not doing a kind of 30 car race because for me, the first hike up, it was like running competition, which in the end it was Hmm.

And I had really fun and my knee was good. And I came up there a second in and I felt really strong and I was happy to be second because I want to have maximum in front of my, to take off. So everything was really, really nice. And yeah, the, the bad thing starts once I took off, because normally this was for me, like the easy part, because it's like a normal paragliding competition where I used to be normally good.

But there, I really, I, I mean, it probably was a mix of today. I can say a bit and luck because I took off and Maxine was determining on a week term. So for me it was clear. Okay. It's wor it works. Yeah. So I took offense, nothing. It was nothing for me. So critical. And the two other guys, which took off minutes after me or something like that, they got this week and me was the one not getting just a bad.

So basically I, I landed a hundred meter or 150 meter below the takeoff. Then I hike up again. I took off again. Then I catch the term and I was in that little gaggle with U and there I was playing quite good. When you left with Nicola, for me, I was cramming in a good, I had like two and a half meter. I, I was not thinking it was good to go. That's what I, what it wasn't good to go.

I, yeah, that was, that was a bad note to go. That was stupid. Yeah. Well, it's stupid. You can say. But the point was above us, was building the cloud and I saw it and where you was going, it wasn't cloud. So for me, it was a good idea to make maximum altitude, as long as we keep two meter. And as long when it becomes less than two, I started. And then it was a bit below the cloud I had. So when I arrive on the other side, I was higher than you.

I could control you. And, but then it happened the next we think. So I did the turning point because in my eyes I did it. But actually when I was going to the goal and I was five kilometer, four kilometer on 2000 something meter, they told me that you don't, I don't have done the, the second third point. Right. So then I fly back to the second. I fly back to the third and then I find the goals. So basically I did the product twice. It's just the practice area, 50 meters cylinders.

I've gotta stop my, we, we see that every year. And of course, and anyway, I mean three meters, they say it's out really? Yeah. Oh man. That's quite a, that's pretty tight. Yeah. You know what, whatever is this the prologue, it doesn't matter. It's, it's, it's the warmup Aaron and wanted to ask you if you and I have this habit of spending some time together, early on in the race in 2015, you and I were at Ash out and we walked down off the top with some others.

And we had a nice little flight across the and valley. I don't know if you've never, you've done so many races, but you and I both had a lot of foot problems in 2015. I remember there was a video of you like ripping the bottom of your feet off. At one point it was, it was hot, never in those first three days of the race were really hot and humid. And I'm wondering if there's, if you, from that experience, how do you care of your feet now? Cause I know it takes people out of the race. Every time blisters, I have really bad feet. I have really struggled with blisters and I know some people just don't well, I try many, many, many things in the last year.

And especially in the last two years, not only because of the excerpts, but in general, because I mean, I'm, I like to be in the mountain and I spend a lot of time. I have some complicated feet because I was curating and till, till I was 18 and I have on the behind part of the feet, like an over bone.

So it's like, yeah. I mean, who was skiing with lunch? The ski boots knows what they're talking about. So because of this, I get always some problem. And I have really to work, to find solution. And in, in the end, the, the best option I find, because I try, of course they compete blister free, how they call it.

Yeah. And those are not bad. But the problem is if you get traveled below them, you can't take it off because when you take it off, you will really take off your skin. So these, I find quite quickly out that it's not such a good solution, at least for me. So then I was trying with many different kinds of cream, but basically fat creams, which works, but still not the best for me because once you have a premium pet and we will sweat and you will have more humidity, what I do, if you would see in the race for me, if we meet, I have a white powder and I use these every hour, I put this because it's a lubricant.

So when you take your shoes and socks off and put it on your feet every hour. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's quite easy. I opened the sock and I put it in. I have like, like a talcum powder. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that keeps your feet dry. Exactly. But at the same time, it's a lubricant actually in the bike race on dry. They use it on the chain. Okay. It's a, that's like, it does like a Vaseline cream, but it's dry.

And that's for me the best solution. And of course, if I can, every one and a half hour doing this, that I'm going without problem. And this is one, the other part, what I do on shoes, I work on shoes on the ski boots shoes. So I warm with the guys who does it professionally. I warm the shoes like this keyboards. And I make always the mark, the places I have traveled.

And then we press personnel out. So exactly like the same you do for ski boots. I do in each of the shoes I use and Dara shoes, which goes better or other, which after 10 and 20 trainings goes back, but then you can do it again. So yeah, the combination of all those things, give me now quite good result. How many shoes do you have for the race?

Yeah. I have many, I have many, I think, I mean, my main shoes are 15 plus I have another 10 shoes. So it's 25 shoes. I, I tell people this and they go, wait, what? And that's what you need. Yeah. So you're switching them out constantly. You're constantly switching them out. Yeah. It depends really on the hike. If I, if I hike steep, if I hike in the flat on which speed, basically with my knee, I don't plan to run at all, but it's a big difference.

If you go in the flat and you work and you hike, I use you walk or you run. So I use different shoes for six, seven kilometer, an hour or 10 kilometer in hours. And those shoes that you got, they're really thin. Are you going, is that we do the one with kind of no padding or very little padding with all your shoes and like a no drop shoe or do you have, they have four vertical. So like steep stuff. I use not cushioning shoes or very little.

And for working in the flat, like six to seven case in hour, I also don't use much cushioning. And if I will have to run, then I use cushioning because the point is when you have, when you work and, and you have your backpack, what happens if you have a very cushioning shoes, like a Hawker, for example, or a Nike your feet, it's also going down in the shoes because it's cushioning.

And then you will have maybe one or two millimeter moving your feet into the shoes, which can, at least for me, with my problem here behind it can make this inflammation. If the shoes it's harder than it stay your feet, stay always on the same level and you don't have this problem. And then you have to find the balance with the knee and the joint. So a little bit cushioning, but not too much. So at, and also like the, the stability of your ankle, the more cushioning shoes you have, the less unstable, the less stable they are normally.

So yeah, it's I really tested, I have this big luck that I can test those things on the red bull training center. And I test many shoes on the, on the, I would call this very wall track and then we have the treadmill. Yeah. The treadmill. And there, you can measure how long stay your feet on the, on the ground. How it's the, the rolling, if it's going inside, outside, and you can find out which shoes fit the best for you.

And it's something very, I mean, the shoes, which is good for me might be bad for you. So I think to find the optimum, it's just trying and be a really open mind and really try different things. Like what I use also very, quite a lot. It's a five fingers concept. So like the toe socks. Yeah.

Because they're awesome because these make a much stronger your feet. You get more stability. Oh, you're talking about the shoes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The toe socks or I'm not sure that's what they're called, but yeah. So there's no padding on those. It's just a little, the brown stuff below and you have the finger, the five fingers splitted, and it gives you a lot of strengths in the feet. It's they, they recommend you to use it as a training instrument.

So you don't take them and you go for a 10 case, you go for a 20 minutes, one hour, one, and a heart and lean by little, your field use. But it was very interesting. This story to tell you that when I have my very bad time on the knee I was using in my head was okay, I have knee pain. I should use big cushioning shoes to reduce the impact. And interesting wise, I start to use the five fingers.

So part food shoes basically, and I had less pain. So I was going on the haka shoes and having pain and taking our shoes with zero, nothing below my feet. And I was not having pain. And the reason why is that when you walk on a shoes, which doesn't have any cushioning, you will put your front feet first and their motivation start. You got a property and property, and then you would never put your, how it called this bond, heel bone, the here strong on the ground, because you know what, that you don't have nothing below you, but if you have three centimeter of shower, infinity or whatever, and you go on your hear and these create actually more impact than if you, if you work like the, the, the human was big to work.

Yeah. Right. So that's that, that whole, that whole concept and that whole book, that's been kind of the rage for, for a while now. But yeah, you sound like there's a book. I just read. It was 600 pages about how to take care of your feet. And it was interesting because it just said over and over and over again, that every single person is different and every race is different. You could get something that really works really well. And one race and the next race, it doesn't work at all because the humidity, heat, whatever. Yeah. I mean, that's been a very nice sentence from a very experienced guy who developed the ski shoes from technical.

And he say like, you have hundred people and you have 200 different feet. And if you think about it, yeah. Each, each one's a little bit different size. Yeah. That's crazy. I wasn't planning on asking you this, but it occurred to me today watching you go up that mountain again, you're insanely fast up mountains. Can you give, I know your training program is huge, but can you give a condensed version of how, how do you approach, you know, when do you start training for the XLP and how do you get the speed that you end up with now, when it comes to the prologue and it comes to Sunday, how do you peak, how do you get to the point where, because you're really fast going up mountains and you, you have to do that, especially with your knee.

Now. I think the last time we, we did this, we had the last show you said in the last race you walked like 19 miles or something on pavement or 19 K on payment, the whole race. No, it was less. It was really jeez. It's amazing. So how do, how do you train for the vertical? Well, that's something I really like to do. I really like Steve. And when I was doing also ski touring race, I really like the steep race.

So for me, it's, you know, like you have like a body, which bill, maybe easily muscle. And I have a body which works quite good on, on steep, I think. Does it's something, I just have it. Yeah. And I mean, how you train for the excerpts? It's, it's a question I can't answer because it's not, I never start a specific training for the excerpts, my whole life. It's a training for the excerpts in a way.

And I can tell you, like, during the winter, I do more like the endurance things with the projects and with the things I'm doing. So I'm out in the mountain on the ski for 6, 7, 8 hours and ski touring, ice climbing. Yeah. Just being in the, and then when, when it came to a pre and let's say, end of March, beginning of April, it's the, the, this transfer time where I still go a bit skiing, but I also put the shoes on.

And as soon as I put the shoes on, because also I really like it. I go for vertical training and yeah, but it's not like maybe you think I have a program. I have to do these, these, these every day. So these are more into the, the, the power training on the power training. I have, I have my plan and I do five to four to five training a week lifting weight.

And do you, do you have a specific trainer or I know you have the red bull X ups training center, which we all go get tested, have as an awesome facility. But do you also work with a trainer too? Yeah, I have basically on the training center of red bull, there is a trainer which follow me and many other athletes too. And in Murano I have in my hometown, I have a trainer which is working with me. And as you know what, my knee problems, I was really not thinking I, I can get again good.

I was having some really bad, bad times. So really where I was thinking, ah, that's maybe over, you know, like over, in sense of everything, like going skiing, going like one and a half years ago, I couldn't push the speed bar. So I had Christian BRD from Buddha valley, build me a speed bar with five steps because I push it on the left one on the good one.

And I hold on the right one. I push it on the left, holding on the right one. So for each step I have to do so at that time I was thinking maybe that doesn't look good. They all think, but of course I was lucky that I lucky. And at the same time I didn't give up. And then it comes the idea from one of the doctor to say, we try already many things. Now we try to beat up muscle.

Even if you go in pain in the training, we have to build up muscle. And I work really hard on the basic. So squat, pistol, squat leg, press lacquer all the behind chain, getting your structure. But yeah. And for example, this muscle, the, the vast media is I almost didn't have it anymore. Yeah. I, it doesn't look, I do a lot of weight because I'm still kind of skinny, but I, like I say, I do four to five training a week in the gym and also watching your video.

It was good because basically you, you do quite similar as I do. And just on you, you see the resort on me. I see the result by not having pain, but not by looking. I mean, that's how Ben solved my, I have, you know, I've had nine knee surgeries. I have you and I have the same background with ski racing and everything. And when I first started thinking about the , he'd seen me ski, he knew I didn't have stability problems, but I had, I'd had pain, really bad pain for 20 years.

It was hard for me to walk off a curb. And I just thought, there's no chance. And he said, no, no strength training. And we can get, and since the 2015 race, I haven't had any knee, knee pain. It's amazing what you had for, and that it was from a scale from zero to 10. I was a long period on five to six. And still now I write it every day. How much is my pain? And it's from zero to one. It's always been, I, I, I, but that's not the pain.

You'll feel it. Yeah. You know, it's there, but in a way it's maybe also good because it's, I know it's there, but it's not a pain. And so if I came to the idea, running a hundred kilometer on DAS, but these think, remember me, no, it's not a good idea. And they just don't do it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Aaron, you told a really funny story. The last time I had you on the show after the 2019 race, where to stay awake between St.

Hilaire kind of through the LaGrand area, you started watching YouTube videos. I was cracking up the other day is Tom, the door window. And I, we were having fun, really fun chat about the tired times. You know, when you're just exhausted in the race, the funny things that happened, you see things and you talk to people that aren't there. Do you have another one like that, that you remember from one of the races? Yeah, definitely. In 2013, my first excerpts, I put the night bus in service and I was really working through the whole night.

And it, it, there are a couple of funny story. So first during the night class, I'm working basically on, on a pass, I think the open passed and I start to see some light maybe down in the valley, 200 meters, some fire like, and th this virus moving and, and I was working alone at the time. I did the only exalts alone. I didn't have a supporter which was working with me.

So it was, I don't know, one o'clock. And I start to think what the fuck it has to be some satin satin. really scared thinking what this guys, they have to be some satanic group. So I was really tired then. And really on the end I start to drop and it was nothing.

I don't know. and I even didn't tell myself, I just run as long as I can. And then like, when I was really not able to run anymore, after my self and I looked behind and I didn't see the light and the more, and I say there was probably never anything there that, yeah. And then basically the next day, actually I fly very good.

I went into luck and, and, and I didn't fall asleep. Even those, I was really tired, but the day after I took her from the past and I have to fly to the Matterhorn and the next step and point was . And I remember really well, and I was really tired. And when I was crossing Verbier, I was really falling asleep, but that was at the same time, not falling asleep because I was concentrate to find the next term on it.

And so I'm flying, flying and thinking about the term . And then when I hit the terminal and I was like 50 meters next to the rock, I fell asleep. Perfect timing. I'm falling asleep in a strong termite, 50 meters next to the cliff, you know? Oh, it's crazy. I can't believe we do this. It's crazy.

Yeah. Aaron, thank you very much. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and see you and have you on this show. Of course. And we wish you all the best and the race and glad your knees feeling better. And can't wait to see how is yeah. Nice. Thank you very much, Kevin Markus, thanks for coming down in and doing a little show for us here. I haven't had you on the podcast before, so I'm looking forward to talking to you, but congratulations on the prologue today, how to go for it. Yeah.

The product was super nice. Actually came. We came up a little bit to get ready for the race, to race across the ops. And it's sometimes it's kind of, to be honest, kind of annoying with all that or organizational stuff, check, check shootings. And so on the long week. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm really looking forward to The race and prologue most trust fund. I can add flying around with all the other accepts at least, and then seeing some, some helicopters flying around, filming this stuff.

This was the first one we've had flying since 2015, you know, 2017 was the rainy, terrible won. And then last year, you know, we, it was windy. So that was nice. It was nice to be able to fly again on the prologue. What was a fun fast course. And it was funny last in the, you're a rookie in the last 1, 20 19, you were gripping with the kind of top 10 there we were, we, you and I were together going into day eight and I had a terrible day and you made a really nice run down to kind of the little garage area and stuff.

And then something happened that you're kind of last 18 hours or 24 hours, or maybe even more what happened? I never got to ask you about that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, at the beginning we made some rookie mistakes. Like pretty much every rule is doing, and everybody is telling you, we don't do this rookie mistake. We, we did not. We, we couldn't find awful. And then we messed it up at one tech and then it was just fine. And we were flying in at one point we were around the top 10 plays and whoa, crazy.

I think I pushed a little bit too hard in the beginning of the race. And after like 8, 9, 10 days, you really feel that the tiredness and your access to it. And I made a mistake while flying to Priya. So I, I did not really know that this area is quite stable and I got below and in version Leah and I, I tried to break through like three times and on the same place, same time I just could fly outline and the inversion.

And then I decided to top-line top landing was fine. And the plan was just easy hike up through the immersion. Take off again, let's go. And it was a great flying day and it, what, while hiking up, I had really light choose and I was checking my mobile phone, hiking up just right through some, some not, not good. yeah. And there was like a whole, and I stepped into it and I, I hurt my ligament and it got really thick and swollen.

And you rolled your ankle? Yeah. Okay. I like sprain or something. We, we had like, and my team came to me and we had like a little bit of rest and cooling and stuff. And at this point around TVs, or there was a thunderstorm developing and for me it was clear, well, I can fly just one time. Hiking is no option. And well, I decided to glide down into the valley before the tunnel of stone arrived at my place.

And I said, well, if I land, I can't do anything. Just wait til the end. And we call it if we can cancel The race now. And then she said, yeah, well, if you do this, we, we throw out because of insurance. And then we said, okay, well then we just drink coffee and yeah.

Speaker 2 (45m 16s): Yeah. Perfect. We'll

Speaker 1 (45m 18s): Just relax and heal. Yeah. Yeah. It was kind of a sad end, but yeah. Yeah, you really did well. Or what, what, you know, you said you made a lot of mistakes early. What are the things that you learned from that you're bringing to this race? Yeah, several times. It's that several things, actually, the, the first mistake we, we had a really good plan, but when, when you, when you go into the race and fly with Chrigel Maurer, Maxime with you and all the legends and well, I'm, I'm not, I'm flying four.

What are now six years, but last, except it was four years. And, and it's kind of stupid. If you think you are smarter than the others and they go, I left and you go, right. But the point was I had before the race, I pushed too much and I had some knee problems and I'm pushing in even Toronto was not the best idea. And Chrigel just said, well, he doesn't want to hike on the flats.

So he goes this way. And then we won was following. And we actually had the plan to, to glide, to and just hike and would be much, much more efficient and better for my knee. And then hype on steep, turn around or Trek. And then it was like following the others to maybe get back to them. And we kind of missed one takeoff.

And I, I saw like 10, 15 gliders flying above me. And I took off like two times top land again, because the St John, yeah, you passed me in, you took off some bushes. And then I said, Hey, why can't we don't go up there. And I felt bad for you that day, because you were ahead of me and you launched, and then immediately landed down below. And, and it was so hot that day too. I struggled up there though.

And I blew my whole beat cascade. I had to fly all the way to Asheville with no BS on one side of yanked it out. I get so frustrated up there. I couldn't get off the hill, but you had it worse. That's right. I forgot. Yeah. But at the take off, we had to support, or we could help me out because I had like two tries and then it worked and I could jump into the air weather. And actually this was the best thing which can happen because we were far away from the first group. There were some behind, but I trust that now we watch on ourselves.

We look how we can proceed. Yeah. And it turned out to be really good, just make the best out of the situation. And we like four or five days, we ended up flying with, with Gus PI and Tom and, and you and Simon, ah, the get-go between top place ranked five and 10. We, we passed them all, blah. And well, I, I told my support as well on the Welly crossings and why it's light in, in soft terminals, turning.

I started to, to close my eyes to get some rest by flying. And then they said, okay, I almost fall asleep while eating. And then they said, okay, maybe let's take it more easy and, and, and rests to where I was earlier, but I wasn't. I was like, bye, just continue. Keep the flow alive. And from that point, we, we paused a little bit more. And I don't know, at this point, when, when I stopped the flow, it starts, it started to get really worse.

I got more tired, mostly a little bit lack of motivation. And then we started to, to push with the goal to reach Monaco, but we were like 300 kilometer. You get too far ahead in your mind. And if you're too far ahead, you, you lose the vision of, of your surroundings right. At the moment. And this is important. Yeah. Do you, you went, you went for the outcome goal instead of the process.

And that's, that's one of the things that I try to keep relearning, especially in this race, you got to stay in the now don't, you, it's really, that's very, very important. I've worked with Thomas A. Little bit on that. What, you know, critical supporter that talking about, and you know, you're going to make mistakes when you make mistakes. It's the attitude is really important. Oh, that was cool. I learned from that rather than fuck. I can't believe I just bombed out in the middle of the day. You know, you have to keep this kind of, like you said, flow.

That was interesting. How you, you utilize that this time. How will you, how will you try to stay more in flow? I analyzed all my competitions and well, due to the pandemic, I couldn't participate in that much competitions obviously, but we have the dollar municipal flight and I, I tested out something just pushing from, from seven to two, 9:00 PM all day, because it's a much shorter race than except.

And the, the, the learning was, if I push really hard and I focused just on going on, going straight, you, I lost the, the freedom of the flying and I kind of, I was good in the beginning, but then I, I didn't see the roots, which were obviously because of the situation, much more efficient. And then I got stuck somewhere and interesting.

Yeah. I, I, and then pushing to hard doesn't work and know, and for me, I can really keep and the flow when, when I'm, I'm pushing a little bit, but I'm more relaxed and have the time to look around you and share some birds and trial a bit and just feel good and do my own stuff. If I have a plan and sometimes plans are shittier also.

Yeah. Most of the situations when I had a really good competition, I, I tested was walking on a really shitty day, along the way. And then I said, okay, maybe it opens a little bit and it started to open it. And then I said, okay, let's go up. And if you look into the forecast, you don't see any flying window. And then you go up so a little bit in a weather event and make huge glides or even find Germans. Yeah.

And, and those are special. That's, that's super great. And that's, for me, the, the most intense and best moments, and I can fly competitions because you have to make the best out of it. And you check the forecast, then shitty days, you just see what happens. And in most cases you make super special and quick flights. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great segue. So last question is what, what's the one thing, if you could pick one thing that drove you to apply again this time, what was it when you thought, okay, July 1st, it's open.

It's time to apply. What was the one thing that made? Okay. I got to do it again. Okay. I thought a lot about applying again. I think the most important fact was for the first time, I, I didn't really know what, what I will expect during the race, how long two weeks. It's, it's huge. I'm how to, to deal with the time and all that stuff.

And at some point we knew we could really fly well and fly with the top pilots. And the end was kind of sad and I focused too much on the set end at the beginning. I almost felt like into some kind of depression because it was just focusing on the set end. But overall, it's just a cool experience and adventure with my team. And the, the, the thing why I wanted to compete again was it's like an unfulfilled task.

Yeah. I, I don't, I don't push for some ranking. I, I want to finish the task. I want to reach Monaco. Well, now it's celibacy, but it doesn't make much of a difference. Sure. But one of the, kind of, if you never reached Monaco, it's, it's kind of a cool story to cross all the ups to Monarch and into the sea Markus. Thank you. That was great. I really appreciate it.

And I look forward to racing with you again, and it's good to see her again and wish you all the time. Yeah. Thanks Kevin. For a nice chat and let's have a great race. Let's do it. Let's do it. Chrigel great to see you race with you again, have you back on the show and congratulations on the win today. That's a nice way to start the exiles. Thank you, Gavin. Yeah, there was a pleasure for me. It was a bit stressful day or, or I was really nervous again after such a long period without competition.

So it felt good. And finally, I want really to keep calm race and to do it as controlled as possible. And finally, for me to as possible. And I raced with Maxime in the front and it was a, it was a pleasure. And in the end it was a small tactic difference and my glider works well finally. And so I was able to win with this, this model into, yeah, you mentioned, I, I saw an interview with you recently that you hadn't, you hadn't gotten your glider yet so that we must've just gotten it.

Yeah. I mean, we had some problem or others had some problem with the new players and finally we decided to, to bring the old one. So I fly the last two years with the same wing. And for me, it's a comfortable situation because I know how it works and that it works. And finally, it's good. And the differences to the new wings are not big, but it's, it's more a mental thing because flying a new competition with the new glider, it's always more motivated.

Yeah. But for this, for this also the, the day or two, when the day was very good 'cause after I felt a better. And then to be sure that I have the right equipment and, and it should work anyway, because it's a, it's an adventure racing and that really not a really parlaying competitions or the glide is not that important in, in the last performance. Then, for example, partly new world cup. Mm. Th now I might be wrong here, but it seems to me, you know, my first year was 2015, which was the first year that we had the prologue.

You, I gather that you didn't take it very seriously then, but in the last couple, you've really gunned. You've really gone hard. I know you always physically train really hard, but how important is it to you? Yeah, I really liked to improve my body. So I did a serious training in the last 12 years and coming more old direct recovery time needs more time, but, but I'm, I'm still can improve a little bit, but yeah, maybe it's not that important to be so fit as possible, or, but it's more important to be a really constant in, in, in walking on the street and to bring performance everyday because it's, for me, it's a big, different to be in a short race, very fast, or to bring performance every day for 17 and a half hours or so.

And then the winter, I really pushed the smaller races for, for a quick time. And in spring, I start to do the long trainings that the walk on the flat with my glider to be ready to bring performance everyday and have a good recovery. Do you have any trouble with your feet? Yes. I had a, and it's stupid because I thought I'm smart after 12 years, ah, training and we did competition and they was often overloaded.

So I had some problems and I know that the recovery it's always a long and hard time, and I really wanted not to destroy myself in this spring, but there was the wings for life version. And it was a real interesting. And I did it last year too. And I was really motivated to, to compare to last year. And I run with my boys. They follow me by bike. They support me and it was a nice day and they was pushing and they felt good and not felt any problem during the 40 K run.

And on the day after I realized that the leg, the, oh, it's cute, it was a bit overloaded. And they thought that it would be good after a week, but it was an inflammation that was not good after a week. And then I was thinking about to do less training. I felt that running down, for example, it's working but flat running and appeal. It's very bad for this. So I started to do more mountain biking and took the cable car up to run down.

That was a new experience to me, but, but I felt that something is not good and it takes really a lot of time to recover. And for three and a half weeks, I was not really training physically hard. And then I started to have a better recovery with physiotherapy. I, in the end, I made that older felt therapy to, to get more quick healthy. And now it's, yeah, it was on the end. It was quite quite tight because I'm recovered completely since 10 days really just happen.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So it all the may I was, was breakdown by, by this problem and, and finally I'm fine, but, but it was a very tight and it was a good list and listen to the, and more smart on the next time. And do you have any trouble, Steve did it. You guys did a big walkers winner and he did a little write-up about, I was really excited to read it. And there wasn't much detail about how you prevent blisters.

Do you have a, what do you have a special way that you take care of your feet? Yes. I, I know that it's really important that the socks and your inlets in the shoes and you show us fits together. I have some inlets, they are too slippery and I have some inlets there too, like CLU. Yeah. And then my foot, my skin moves in the socks and this is very danger for players. And if the socks slippers on the inlet, then it's also bad.

So that this place together, it's very important to insult. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. And I have different shoes. My wife's told me I have 27 shoes a bit special, but I'm really, now that the shoes are very important. And in generally I tested all shoes in the flat, on the, on the road, on the trailers. It's not that important then on the road. And then it's important to train on the flat on the little bit climbing in the little bit downhill.

Yeah. And every, everything it's on the, in the grass or in off-road, it's less important about the flat, it's sometimes a problem for my feats. And finally, I also do, I put on Vaseline on my feet and not when it's a problem. I do it generally. Okay. So every day there was a Lynn maybe worked for four or five hours and then I have to put in on again.

Okay. And what I also do is while walking on the flat, I change my shoes every 15, 20 K. Yeah. So it's not, it's not that that that can walk differently, but that my feet are loaded differently, differently. And also the insole in, in, in the different shoes are different. And so I have for this race, I bring fix shoes, six different shoes for road and trail.

Okay. And then also mountaineering mountain shoes, for sure. If we go really in the snow, but I think already for the road to different choose and for the trails three different shoes make sense to switch because of the different load on this long days. Yup. What's the hardest thing that you found in your six races and the exiles, and then you do all the other ones too, to take care of what's what's the thing, that's the, is there been a and needling little, you know, you had the knee injury in 2017, I think, but is there, is there any, any overuse injuries or anything that's just, God, this thing's back in general.

I was, was always, we had a small problems, but it was nothing that destroyed me completely. I guess our own had more problem after his downhill in 2017 and what I do, it's a lot of CIM training, power training and especially my legs and we are strong weights, but also with, with the coordination. So for example, I, I, I cleaned my teeth on this, on a soft ground, on a soft ball and to stay on the soft ground for five minutes each day.

And I do slacklining for example, and all these small moves and also running off-road for sure. It gives a good food and flexibility and strength and you know, exactly. And this helps to be more assistant during the race. And I guess that in 2017, for sure, the first day was bad weather and we walked all the way, but I was not, I was too lazy with the power training in the spring and made the power training in the winter.

And then I started ski touring and I started running and a put away there, the power training. So I lost muscles and also stability. And for four days I made more trainings in, in 2019. And for sure now do every week for of one time, one hour really hard with weight or power training, do you work with a trainer? No, because I, I know that the train can control me and if I can control myself into a good motivation, I not need to train, but I have good connections with other athletes.

So I ask them for new exercises and what they do, and then I try it out because I think anyway, it's good to switch exercises often and to try new loads, to get new muscles. Because if you do every week, always the same exercise with the same weight. It's not a, you talked about cross-training that using the soft ball and you're doing it and you're brushing your teeth and slack lining. Do you feel like that's also crossing over to flying as well?

Do you do other things there that are balance oriented that you feel helps flying as well? Mm, not really. For sure. It's good to have strong legs for the acceleration to, to fly with speed all the day, but with the new wings, with the be homeless, it's not so important anymore. Five years ago. Yeah. It's softer and more comfortable, but in, in general, it's good to be physically ready to, to do the long flights because the concentration can be longer on the, how to fly or where to fly instead of after thinking about tiredness and yeah.

And, and fly what speed there, I guess. Hmm. Yeah. What part of the course do you, think's going to be the toughest, is it you've been I've I've heard you be a little, you know, quite vocal that it, obviously it can be pretty fast. They're taking us in a lot of the route is some pretty fast train, you know, and you're your neck of the woods down the room with good weather, but what do you, what do you think what's the, what's the part or parts of the course that trouble you most?

Yeah. For, for us, we say we are have w we, we, we, we say we have three Heights, so that low level is the roads in rain, and it's very easy to calculate and to work. And the high level is the outline very critical up top of the treeline. And then you fly. And the biggest travel we see in the mid, in the medium layer, which is often the forest Hills windy and now takeoffs and no landings.

And for this, we see that the leg from led most until the Switzerland seventies turn point, it's often in this area with the mid layer, and then it's really difficult to have straight lines to work and often on the Hills, no takeoffs. And you have really to know where to go if it's pliable, for sure. We can cross over easy. Sure. But if not, then, then it's, it's troubling.

And for me, it's, it's also a new area. We never was so low. So north of the Alps in a cross into our Switzerland, and then what this area a bit, but also that there is a stable breeze from the north come in everyday and it makes the flight more difficult to her. And after for sure, it's, it's, it's high up in and, and more easy if we have good weather, otherwise, it's, it's hard to walk for sure, with the up and downs.

And then the south is, or the west part around the mobile. It's the question about weather? Because if it's pliable, it's one hour in Dan and if not it's one day. So there was some discussions about this 1,200 K to do it in 10 days. Yes. It's an average of my speed over the last six additions. But in this additions, the term point, wasn't so difficult. And now, so now it has the way you have to be better than the average in the past.

And we had good weather. Yeah. I remember 2007, Alex hoever walked into the snow in the, in the forecast past and the support card with the summer reels was not following. So it's if happened this, this year for short 12 days, it's not enough now, but the most interesting part for sure, it's after the mobile, because you can choose different ways and the weights are not easy to switch. So if you choose one way, for example, the south, you have to stay south of tabs.

If you go north back to valleys, you have to stay there and you have a extra way to do, because it's a longer way, but it's highway, if it's playable for, I guess it's faster to do it to the x-ray. And I'm really happy to do this part because yeah, I think it gives a flaccidity. You could have, I mean, there's, there's, there's five main woozy. It's true and more, and it's, it's 245 K from the mobile to the pizza police and in a good day, we can do it in one day.

Yeah. Because it's all over the, and made that help. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm specially focused on the, on the last part of the noise. Okay. To come from moron, Chrome plots back to the goal, because I think if, if you are tired and you are so close from the goal, you have to know exactly what to do for sure that it's easy, but actually one week before we are there, it's quite a lot of snow and it's no way, and depends on which time on a day you arrive and which cloud-based you'll have and the worst case for sure.

It's to fly into the valley and evening with a low base, then you have to land on a place where you don't know what the snow it's it's it's doing. And I know that we are running shoes. You can be stocked in a, in a meter of snow. Yeah. Propose towing hell and the summer ice summit as a thermic. I really be careful with this situations. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Because it's not, until now I did six races and almost every race was, was always pushing and on this race with this, now it can be happened that it's not about pushing it's about safety to arrive in color. Yeah. Yeah. There's a, there's, there's some, there's some potential overhanging hazards out there. I mean that in general, I was talking to Thomas this morning and your team is back to the original.

That is just you and him. I understand you have a media guy in the land Rover, but what's it feel like to be back with your, your guy, your, it, that's gotta be really exciting. Yeah. He's he is back in the race. We, we never stopped our partnership, but I'm very happy that he said last summer that he's interested to do the accepts again, and that he will take time for this, for sure. It's the preparation time we spend a lot of time and now these three weeks for him, it's a, it's really expensive for sure.

But it's also good to think about the future to, to, to improve our, our skills by, by the normal process, but also by, by doing the, the daily life over the two years between the houses. So, so it's not only about doing the race again together, it's, it's also working on us in generally. Yeah. And he said the, the decision to go with the really small team, you've just got the small van in the, to remember you.

And I talked about this the last time that the race has gotten so fast and the teams has gotten so much faster and that to do it just with one, which is what you preferred back when you did the first couple is maybe just too much. It's just too much on the supporter to handle. So I'm curious. What was your decision this time? Was it more driven by Thomas? Was it were driven by you and, and the decision to, to really just go with the one supporter. I felt that one car we have to support it's, it's a good combination because they can, they can help each other for driving for, to the logistic and everything and, and having two cars.

For sure. It's, it's a good option, but it helps only on some parts. Yeah. And the other, I would say 80%, the second car that the more people it's not useful. And it has to be really in a good balance that they are not too lazy or that they keep up the motivation all these weeks, because it's not, it's not the holiday. It's not the pleasure. After one week, he starts to be heart.

And for this, we, we, we had a long talk with, with different people. And, and for me it makes more sense to keep the team small, but, but efficient. Yeah. So I'm, I'm not that I'm often have maybe some grams or kilograms more with me to be safe instead of having support, but in the other hand, and it not makes me much slower.

So it makes me slower for a one accent. Yeah. So minutes. Right. But it's not the problem for more days and more hours. Yeah. This, I would say. And, and generally there is, I guess I have a better time with, with one or two person instead of, of a group to fund is important and to talk and to enjoy it. And it's so, so focused these two weeks.

So that, that it's difficult to, to keep or take time for, for many people. I feel alone. Final question. I wasn't planning on asking you this, but when we pass my blog, we've got, or Sierra's into the, into their own, or we've got dome windowsill and the market Naga and dome windowsill, and up around the big sea, we've got mark and Naga direct, we got bell and zona and we've got the south. We've got all these options. When you, when are you making that call? And are you making that call?

Is it something as you're leaving dent the ocean and getting up into that zone, your weather person? I don't know if you even have it, what the person now back home, but it is, it, is it really okay. The weather's looking better in their ongoing that way? Or is it just you calling it on the fly in the sky? The most of the road? I, I go step by step from the clouds. Yeah. And, and do it quite, quite on a small planning. But I know that in, in a rehab around more block, we have to have a better forecast for the next two to three days.

And for this, I have helped at home to, to understand better what's happened. And we say that when there is north wind, then we have better conditions in south, but it can be twinned the into danger. Yeah. So maybe it's more smart to go north. We were talking about Fern. Yeah. Yeah. It's really strong. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And the opposite is with south. And so this is a big influential and in the end it's it's and the decision where we have to take quite early and then we are in this way.

But as you said, there is some, some places where you can switch where you can go from north to the south, or, yeah. So I guess that depends on of the weather situation. We made this plan a, B, C, D, and then if we go and plan a, there is another point for a new decision. And from this point, it's another plate, a, B, C, D. And we noticed already, we read them down. We spend a lot of hours for, for thinking about these options, and now I can go to the place and they can check the forecast and I can go directly to, to plan.

We, we saw it and then it's more or less clear what it means in the next decision point. And it makes it easier. And, and I can have a quicker decision and I know the, the strong points or the chances, and they know the problems, for example, the south it's more straight. Yep. But do you have airspaces yep. And the north is more far, but it's highway. Yeah. Yeah. Finally I did all the time, small steps until the point.

And if it was really not clear, I followed my stomach for what I'm. Yeah. It was the same. In 2017, I made the term and then it was straight to the cells and we could go west to France and east to Italy, Italy. They say it's a no-go because not flyable so much. And the France, French part was more long, but on this time it was really not clear how good the conditions would be in the next two days.

And I didn't know what to do. And I glide down from this high call, the, and, and the backside after month to just always hear. And I top landed because I wanted to understand better what's happened. And I called to my Metro guy and he says, ah, maybe it's 50 50. And on the end I started and I flew and then I had to decide our all star or . And then there was a storm coming towards our pasta and they felt, okay, this is now a no-go.

So you have to go left in the sun. And this was the decision easy. And finally, I landed and I now, now to go back to France, it's an extra work. Yeah. So keep going. Right. And, and finally he was working and not sure if, if it was fast or not, but at this time, this place, it was for me, easy to decide because of the storm they come. So often, often I don't know exactly what to do. I, on the end I followed the easiest way.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you always such a pleasure and thank you for being so open and sharing of all your knowledge and a terrific win today. Congratulations. And I can't wait to do this again with it. Thanks. Thanks so much. And look forward to racing with you on Sunday. Yeah. I'm very happy. And for me, it's also nice to see that you are here every two years and to keep up the motivation. And I mean, for us, we give you something to look forward to.

Yeah. Often people are journalists asked, what do you do after, when you're not able to fly anymore? And I say, Hmm, it's it's another two or three at another 20 years, they would fly and AKI it's 61. So it will do this for a long time. The next guests are Simon and Thomas and combined their minds. Yeah. They are so young. They're so young. Well, today he did great. Yeah. They're really fast. Really. That's fantastic to see how it's cool.

I'm very happy to, to start a new adventure. Everybody knows, or everybody not knows, but they, they gave me the feeling that I would win for sure. But I told them, no, it's a new race. It's a new challenge. Things happen and you have to go so careful. And not only for one, two days, it's four, four, that's all day until the goal. And it's got to stay healthy for a long time. Yeah. It's a really bigger challenge than a competition for sure.

And nobody, I think nobody understands. I don't think so. I think it's very hard to understand. Let me, I, wasn't going to ask you any more questions, but let me ask you one more after six wins, how do you see, do you still see this as a, you'll do five more, 10 words. What would you, is this, we just keep doing it as long as it's interesting and challenging. Yeah. I say as long my body not doing too much problems. And as long as I feel a good motivation as long I like it to do, because in, in this heightened flight sport, I really do only what I like to do.

Yeah. And I like to work with persons, with companies for sponsors. I like to do the, the media work as well, because I can share the, the, the good feelings, the motivation. And I think the most important for all the people in the world is to have a goal, to, to feel the motivation, to, to be happy and also to reach a goal, to feel the good, the good feelings. And yes, why not to do it again and again, because, because I can learn in the training and preparation time so much, and then the race it's so intense, but, but also good for sure.

And it's painful and not, so I'm not that they are not all days just funny days, but, but in generally, I think I'm happy after. Yeah. And I'm proud to, to look back and see what we did. And, and four days a week, I go for the pain. You were very inspired. Thank you. Chrigel and good luck have fun, be safe and yeah. See you. And it's a long way, but it's a long way that we hoped Simon.

Great to have you on the show. I've been actually meaning to get you on for a real show. And we will do that at some point. Cause I've been really impressed with your skyrocket improvement and, and your last two XLS you've done really well and this race, but thanks for coming on the ma'am and, and sharing a little bit of your time, how to go today. What? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for doing the podcast with me. How did it go today? Today was I have to say, I feel good and it wasn't nice rate.

I really enjoyed it. Cool. And I think that's probably the best that could happen. I didn't make my, my first flight, my first attempt, you know, do we have a bad cycle where you, one of those that had the, oh, it's it's, it's so hard. You, you see people like Greil, Tommy Maxime got a nice and I was like, yeah, I'm going to join there. No way, Justin.

I just couldn't. And the cycle was over and I had to land again, woke up again. And it was the same, it's hot today, man. It's brutal. Yeah. But then it's worked out great. And I had a really good feeling in the morning and yeah, everything was, it was nice. I got into floor and deaf. What? I knew I have nothing to win now, but everything to lose, if I, yeah. Don't walk 25, K course I can fly this so easy flying and yeah, I'm happy with that.

So I can sleep half an hour and more on Monday. There you go. That's not bad either. You got to look at all the optimistic sides of these things, don't you you've done really well in this race. You're quite young. I think you just had your 30th birthday. Yep. We congratulations. And, but yeah, you've done. You've done really well. You seem to have the right approach. I've seen a bunch of your interviews. You're always really happy and stoked. You seem like quite an opportunist. What, if anything, are you changing this time around what have you, what have you learned from the last two that, and not necessarily to place better, you've placed really well, but just to, I don't know, do something different in different way for me to approach always was to, to make this and adventure and make it, make it like I'm am allowed to take apart and I can buy it.

I don't have to. So that was always the focus. And when I first participated and then restarted and it was like all gone and it was like, okay, sorry. And it was like full speed and, and, and flying in conditions where I shouldn't have been flown. And then I landed. And then I realized that, and I wanted to quit. I said, okay, that's, that's not good. But then you kind of have like a coming to Jesus.

well, wait a minute that wasn't, that's not that's okay. Just as, and then I have the luck that after my best friends with me and also my girlfriend, and then we said, okay, now let's see, let's just walk a little bit and talk about it. We are, we even collect some, some mushrooms on the way that doesn't send me and then was like, okay, let's tweet easy tomorrow we go up there.

And then we looked at how it's going. And then I talking about the 2017, we, we all flew in the Fern and the really dicey day. Yeah. That was pretty sketchy. That was the scariest Perry wedding I'd ever seen that. And I, and I was, I walked all that night. I did that terrible move of my night pass. So I saw you guys all flying down and it was terrifying. That really was, was tough. And then the next day we, we got perfect east side started. And on the end of the day, I was, I think, 25th, 20, 25 ranking.

And then I was fifth. So I just had no pressure. Yeah. And, and that's not so easy to, to do to yourself. So don't pressure yourself doing a event like this. That's that's not, not easy, but that's my main goal because I know only then I can be good and only then I can fly really intuitive, but it's really hard to do. It's not easy. Yeah. How much experience did you have when you came into your first one?

I think I had about four, four years of flying four or five years. Yeah. People have talked about that on the show of none, the exhale 2, 3, 4, and five years. I just think that's amazing. But I did a lot. Yeah, definitely a lot. It was, I started studying and flying together and it didn't, it didn't go well for studying. So I was just flying. Hey, is this your job?

Yeah, this is my job. The thing is with Thomas, we have flags in class. Yeah. Together. And which was his father's you're correct. It was his father's. Yeah. Yeah. And now we are doing it. Yeah. Paul was just in here. And he said, when he did his first XL, Tommy was nine. Yeah, that's right. It was pretty young. Yeah. It's kind of funny because we, we all are about 10 years or one generation each.

And when I did my first flight, my first flight from the high hill, like 400 meters up to difference. Tell me what's there. And I think one week later he did his first flight and he was like super tiny little tiny dude, the guy. Yeah. But you could tell that he has a marital seating for the wing because he's doing this all his life. He's just been around it for it since the beginning. I'm so jealous of that.

Okay. Last few races going into this one. What have you found physically is the most, is the hardest thing to deal with? It depends if you, if the weather is good, I mean then the physical part is not that hard, but then you just keep pushing harder because you have more energy. The road is very hard, but maybe not the hardest thing. I think the hardest, hardest part is mentally. You just have to stay positive.

And if you do wrong decisions and you have to prepare yourself for that to have a plan, if something bad happens, like you bond out on a super day and when you're pissed off, then nothing works. And yeah, that's, that's, that's really hard. That's what are the hard, that's really hard. It's easier to say we won't get pissed off, but it's really, it's really hard. This is this kind of a tough question. I asked this one with one other, everything we have and it's a super light race, every ounce matters.

So I know that everything in our bag is obviously we wouldn't take it if it wasn't really important, but what are the three kind of pieces of gear that you think? Yeah. That ones that, that one's key. So do you mean except of the flying equipment? Yeah. I mean, we all have the flying equipment, so that's, you know, I think, I think it would be fair to say, okay, you got to have the right wing, but we all very much love our wing, but, but now I'm thinking more little stuff that most people maybe aren't thinking about, you know, the stuff that, that is maybe more mundane in the, in the generalized, but for us, it's actually really pretty key.

Okay. There are somethings like, I need the right shoes, for example, for flying because not every shoe is perfect for foot accelerator and kind of have to stick together. And then maybe if you want to go out of the cocoon, the profile gets stuck or something like, and so, so the shoes are important for me for flying and washing clothing and walking across.

Yeah. That's that's do you go, do you go with like a low drop suit or, you know, not much cushion, a lot of cushion. Do you have different ones for doing different things? Yeah. I, I, I changed a lot on the road because every time I feel okay now the shoe was maybe a little bit too soft. I changed to wear more without captioning. And, and so I think there's the more you change the better for me. So, so we have different, my feet gets different rub points, so, but, but I have one thing, we always, I have one pair of shoes with me that our new and know that the shoe, but it's always like a little, a good thing for me.

So like not a surprise, but a sweet and sweet, like a little tree and little trick and then treat for me and a half this shoot. And it's like, the caching is perfect and it's nice. And they hate, normally don't have problems with blisters. Really? Yeah. I have a lot of problems with my feet, but this, I think I've sorted it out after four. Okay. I'm going into fourth race. Last question. When you, when they opened up the application period this time.

So July 1st, I think what was the one thing that was, I have to do this race again? What was the, what was the overriding? Yes. I'm going to apply again. I'm going to do it again. What was the reason why, I guess it was the overall feeling when I stood there in Monaco and my family and my parents were down there, my whole team and we made it to that float, you know, and that was we all and the peach and you're just happy and it's such a relief to be there and I've thought about that.

But I also thought about the tough things, because it was very ill at the race 2019, but we kind of pushed everything through and I was so amazed what was possible. Let's see what 21 drinks and that first that was today. It was, I get, I, in some ways I, I mean, I love this course way more than going to Monica. And I think it's going to be a lot more fun and staying in the mountains and stuff, but in some ways we're also lucky that we've been there and it's, I feel for those that are, that are new or that haven't because it's, you know, it's kind of, it's quite cool getting, you know, crossing the opposite ending of the ocean.

That is quite me, but God, that's a terrible place. I got hot concrete and the, oh my God. Yeah. Miserable down there. But Simon, thank you. And nice race today and good luck of course, and be safe, be healthy and, and let's have some fun for sure. And congratulations to URIs. And that was also pretty nice. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. No, it all just worked. That was good.

And had a rough and we've talked about that other already on the show, but I had a pretty bad crash, but two and a half weeks ago and I heard it was pretty beat up. And so today was kind of the first day where I'm starting to feel healthy again. So it was just in time. Perfect. Thank you. Okay. First off. Nice job today, dude. Pretty good as a rookie again on the podium. So fantastic work. Yeah, just super nice day.

When I think back to this morning, it was, yeah. I would never expect this. And now in the evening after this product of my first hour at Blake's helps, it's just how it's just crazy. I never thought that I would be on the podium and yeah, it was a nice battle in the end with quinoa, but yeah, it was a bit higher and the pit faster and then it was, it was good. And I could manage to, to get into podium.

Fantastic. Crazy. I was gonna in 2015, I get what we had. There was the last time we had kind of a flying race, you know, 20 17, 20 19, the weather was pretty bad and I got third in that one and it was, you know, when I came into that race, I re I literally had no idea if I was going to be the first one eliminated. I just didn't know where I belonged. And it was, it was quite nice confidence boost. Now you've done. You've been doing some other hiking fly races. I gather you probably weren't as it wasn't as, quite as much unknown as I was back in 2015.

But is it Ben, is it good for your confidence? Do you feel that, did that help going into them? Yeah, I think it's always a bit of a confidence boost. Sure. And yeah, it's a perfect start of my, my first race and yeah, for me, it's the same. So I think red lips ups, it's 12 days long and there are so many factors that can go good or wrong. So I think it's really, really difficult to say, okay, I have that and that expectation for the race.

And I think it's really important to you have to just go there and give your best. And in the end of, at the end of every day, you see where you are and what you have done right or wrong. And after every day, it's quite difficult to, to reflect all the, all the things that happened. But I think it's really important to do and to see, okay, what I have done right today, what I have done wrong today and what can I do better tomorrow and learn out of your mistakes.

And yeah, I will. How, how have you approached the preparation and kind of ramping up to this? I know that I saw the interview with you and sign and target dead, and I know you and Simon have the school together. Has he been quite, quite a good mentor? Did he help you out a lot with just what to expect? That was a hard thing for me is I, I really had no idea. I didn't know, you know, 12 days it just seemed too much on, it just is it will my body work that long, you know, so yeah, right now I have I'm working in the flame school.

So I overtook the flying school from my dead and yeah, I do it together. We have SEMA and, and I try and see mum already at the last two additions after a race. So in 2000, I forgot that. Yeah. I suppose like four years ago it was still allowed to fly together. So we were flying together in The race and yeah, it was a super nice time there back then. And last year I was the last addition two years ago, I was also with him, eh, was not allowed to fly together anymore, but I was still going up to the mountain with him.

Then he took off and I flew as well a bit. And yeah, it was a nice experience to see how the race is growing. And I can remember when I was here at the race for the first time, it was when I was a little child and I was sterile. It was the prologue on chef. And I was there with my, with my dad on the, on the prologue. Yeah. Was also flagged there with my, I had a scabbard Chile with the, the, the light harness and I was also hiking up there and was like, oh, how old is super good excels athletes all around this year, old life.

Yeah, it was, it was, yeah, it was the first time I was really into the race and I was following the race since, yeah. Since I was a little tired. So since I, since Paul was there for the first time and Paul was also in our flying school and when he came for the, for the first time in our flights to us, we said, okay, he want to do except. And it was just a bit into it. And everyone laughed at him. Then some years later, he started at The race. And since then, and I was always following the race and said, okay, I want to go there.

I want to do this also. And what does it feel like to be here and articulate? It is, I mean, you're here, you got third. I it's, it's really hard to, to, to realize it. So I came here and sacrificed in how you're an athlete and all the people around me. And how, how, how cool is this? And now you're only as an athlete. I said, yeah, I'm here as an athlete. Sure. Fuck. I didn't even realize.

And then today, Lord and I was laughing and the doors, I also realized that after he and I am insert position, how it's drawing on, how did this work? Super nice. Realize it, telling your, your dad is very famous in this sport and had the school for a long time. And your dad taught Paul and Simon and, and very sadly passed last year.

I'm sorry. But he, if he was here, what do you think he'd say to you not about today, but going into this race, what advice would he give you? Yeah, so he was always the person that when I went, I had some food really special ed. He was the first person I call it and I said, yeah, fuck. I did this. And I did this. And it's like, so excited for you. He, he, he was my flying teacher and I started buying because of him.

And yeah, he was really always the person, if it was a good, good news or bad news, I was always, always called him and said, Hey, I did this and that did this. And for sure. And he would be, we would have been the first person that I would call today after the race. Awesome. We would have been here, but what did, what advice do you think he'd have for you? What do you, what advice? What advice? Yeah. It's just, you know, as your daddy's, he's got all this experience, you said the school, you know, you've done well in the prologue.

What would he say? As, you know, Hey, Tommy on Sunday, here's what you need to do. Yeah. So at the end, I think he was a person that I think he, he never showed it like this that's a super dicey. You did this super nice or you did the super good. It was always like, yeah, you did, you did good. But it was, but inside, he was really super with me, you know, so thrilled. He was super thrilled and super happy for me and with me, but to the outside of Westchester or not to the outside.

So to the outside to other people, it was always like, he was super proud and everyone told it to me also. But to me it was always like, yeah, you did good, but that's not too much. Yeah. Not too much praise too much. Yeah. It's not too much, but , he was also proud about, but he was never like, okay, so good and not overdo it, but just, just the perfect pattern.

You mentioned that you mentioned it's quite hard to set kind of correct exit expectations when you don't really know what you're, what you're getting into, what it's even all about. Totally. But what are your expectations? What, what are your expectations and what are your fears about the race? That's hard. So, like I said before, expectations, I think it's, it's, it's pretty hard to say, okay, I have these and this expectation for erase because it's that Lauren.

And so many things can happen. And like I said before, so many things can go good or can go wrong. Like today you are just super lucky that the determines where right there, when we took off it. Yeah. And then afterwards and other people took off. And so the next two close we were coming and, and yeah. So I think it's not always just that you, yeah. In the end, it's in the, and to see who is the better one who is the, not the bedroom, but, but for, for some moments, maybe you need luck too.

So sometimes some something work out and for another one, if it don't work out, so you fly there and the terminal is there and you climb up and another one came there and, or come there and to tell them what you need a bit of luck, but yeah, in the end, my, my expectation or my goal for races is for sure to, to get to the goal in insolvency, but also to, to just give my best and I will try to give them my best.

And, and yeah. , and then that's the most important they stay happy, stay happy. Yeah. That's, that's always my motto in life also. Just, just they happy. It's not. So I think it's, it's not possible to like always be happy, but if you're always happy, there is no notepad anymore, right? Yeah. That's there, there's no time in the life is too short for bad wives.

So just try to stay happy and yeah, the goods good times will come again. Yeah. Like a song, like last question. Do you have, do you have any specific fears about The race and that could be, I don't mean scary, any, anything? That's what you're worried about in terms of maybe of course, or your team or your, your own preparation, anything, anything that's just kind of needle in you at night, keeping you up a little bit before the race.

So one big fear is for sure, the air spaces and the no landing zones. There are so many entities every year, it's getting more difficult with the, with the airspaces. And not only on the excepts road, it's like always where you fly. It's it's Derrick, I did more and more as our spaces, but did the X ops, it's a, it's a disaster. If you, if you go into one and it can be over just, you just don't realize that you're in it. And then, and then the race is over for you. So do you have the side view or do you use fly sky high by any chance actually track?

I use it to detract. Does it have the side view? Do you know what I'm talking about? This saves me. I try to tell everybody about this. Yes. Saves me in this race. So the side view is, you know, you've got your map page and this has the airspace. So see like where we are. So this has the ceiling and your predictor line. So that right there is the Barnet, the, the no hunting zones here. So if you're on, if you're on that line and the show is just, you can't go through there, so you'll see it there.

You know, like we normally do, but the side view for me and say, coming out of the Guisborough and it steps up. Right. Yeah. And it makes it so nice. And I know a lot of people good because of that. I have to look for, it's a nice thing to have or free tip, but cause there's a lot of airspace. Yeah, sure. And we can really can really destroy your erase. Yeah. Yeah. It's an easy way to take yourself right. Out of flow.

That's it? So the idea. Yeah. So it's, it's really difficult. We trust in yeah. You practice it in, in, in the preparation you fly and because we were on the airspace at home. Yeah. We have, then we have, yeah, you have, I don't, we don't, we literally have no airspace where that's nice. It's lovely. But when I win my first race, I was petrified of the year. So yeah. And now, because of that, that has really helped if I had to do it just on the fly master in a way I can't do it. It's not because I just don't know that fly master that well, but I have to have it visually like that, where I can see it and what kind of understand it because now I struggle with airspace.

Sure. Yeah. That's cool. I also track and also record quite to it and there's the distances to the air spaces. But yeah, there are so many, no flights zones because of hunting also and no plan landing zones. It's weird. They, we never had that before, so yeah. It's it makes the race even more difficult. I have a plan for this. Yeah. We just fly through those parts. Yeah. Yeah. I would say too. Yeah. I think that's a good plan.

We, we, we take all the typical parts of the room and then we fly through there. It's my blind too. So I, I would like to do it. So yeah. And then we, we arrived in roll after 10 days because it's super nice. What flight, there we go. So there we go. Let's see what, like that sounds good. That's the plan. Nice job today. Great, great work and congratulations. And I'm really excited to race with everybody else. What Sunday? And if there's anything I can do to help you out, let me know.

Thanks. Thanks for your time. Thank you. That's dark.

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