Episode 118- Charles Cazaux and Focus


Charles Cazaux began flying when he was 15 years old. Shortly after that he became the first person to enter the French juniors program that was created to build exceptional pilots who would represent the country on the world stage. Needless to say the program worked very well indeed for Charles! He’s been on the French team every year since 1998, he won the Superfinal in 2009, won the world championships in 2011, holds multiple world records and instructs SIV and cross country with Seiko Fukuoka for the Airlinks Academy. In this episode we learn about the French juniors team and how they approach training and a safe progression; how the team identifies pilots with potential; how to train for competitions and the importance of focusing on progression rather than results; tricks to stay in the game (focus); what he’s learned working from Thomas Theurillat; how to become a complete pilot and a lot more. Enjoy!

I spoke with Charles on March 22, just after the lockdown was instigated in France and other countries in Europe banned flying.

Watch the AirLinks Academy SIV videos with Charles and Seiko on YouTube

Follow Charles on Instagram @kzoairlines

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Show Notes:

  • The French Juniors team
  • How to stay focused and efficiency
  • Training with Thomas Theurillat and dealing with pressure
  • Love of the air
  • SIV training and becoming a complete pilot
  • SIV on comp wings? Absolutely- but start slow
  • How much SIV and how often?
  • Pursuing mastery
  • How to be consistent
  • Advice to newer comp pilots- focus on the process
  • How to mentally prepare before a comp and visualization
  • Fitness and flying
  • Finding the routine
  • CALM- be calm
  • Pitfalls to avoid

Mentioned in this episode:

Honorin Hamard, Seiko Fukuoka, Maxime Pinot, Ozone Paragliders, Russ Ogden, Juri Vidic, Maxime Bellemin


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0 (1s):

1 (22s):
Hi there, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Cloudbase mayhem. By the time this episode drops, uh, we recorded this on the 22nd of March the Sunday and with Charles Cazaux He his over in France in lockdown and I am here in Ketchum, Idaho in lockdown and, and by lockdown on this end, I mean, you know, we can go outside and stuff, but you know, basically everything is closed and they don't need and we have to respect social distancing and when we can go get food and stuff. So it's not totally extreme, but I wanted to tap in with Charles because now they can't fly currently right now in France and Belgium and Italy and other places.

1 (1m 1s):
And they're certainly very interesting conversation going on here about that. And um, by the time we put out the show, I will have put out the show that I did with my sister and my good friend Terry O'Conner, who was an ER doctor here, uh, to the really on the front lines of all of this. And so I think we'll have, probably will not be flying here either. And it doesn't sound like that's a smart thing to do and potentially if he had an accident and in overwhelm and already overwhelmed system. But anyway, I want to apologize that we probably didn't sound very current in terms of where the world most likely stands now, the several weeks later.

1 (1m 41s):
So, but this episode is with Charles Cazaux. He's been flying for more than 25 years. He was the first kind of junior, uh, they have a junior training professional training, uh, program in France that you can come up through to become a professional pilot and be at paid and coached in that process. And so this is something that's pretty foreign for most other pilots in the world, but a very cool program that people like Charles and Maxine Pino and others have come up through and honoring have to come up through.

1 (2m 17s):
So he was the first, uh, with this, he got on the team in 1995 when he was 18 years old and then made the French team in 2000. He's been on and ever since, so almost 20 years with the French team. So I wanted to just talk to him about what they're teaching and what he's learned over the years and how to fly faster in comps and the strategy and tactics and all that kind of stuff. And mental, uh, the mental side of the sport, which is of course huge. And then also we talked quite a bit about what he and Seiko had been teaching at their school the last three years and S.I.V.

1 (2m 53s):
And specifically S.I.V. On two liners and pretty hot wings. So great talk. It was great

2 (3m 0s):
to speak with Charles again, I hadn't flown with him in a while and our talk to them in a while. So, uh, enjoy

0 (3m 7s):

2 (3m 12s):
Charles awesome to have you on the Mayhem. I've been wanting to talk to you a long time. I was trying to think about it this morning, uh, when the last time we saw each other was, I know we flew together in Chalan few years back. I feel like I've seen you since then, but uh, as always it's, it's always too long, but thanks for, thanks for coming on the show. I understand. Like I do right now. You have a lot of time in this time of Corona.

3 (3m 37s):
Thanks Gavin too. To bring me to the show. Yeah. I think the last time we've met maybe was in Columbia for competition where right. We have quite a lot of time actually at home with the Corona issue and I'm not one of the guy walking because uh, office close weightings, the stuff going on and give, uh, all our energy to, it's the people who are in front fighting with the various,

2 (4m 4s):
yeah, it's a, it is really an unprecedented time. I just did a podcast last night with my sister, you know, she's not a pilot, but she's the health and science reporter for KQBD, which is our kind of NPR station out in San Francisco. And so she has been on the front lines reporting on this really sense. It came across from China, is it first came to San Francisco from China. And uh, man, it's just incredible watching the numbers and the escalation of this. And then of course, you know, you guys were the first to get shut down, I believe, right in France, Belgium, Italy.

2 (4m 39s):
You know, the shutdown flying

3 (4m 40s):
it was in the worst was the first. It was to start going to bed early before the Superfinal and Kelly. And uh, so it's why nobody decided to go to Brazil. Well now it's quite bad in Italy on the window. It will happen to France on the value of our country for Europe and when the rest of the world. So we just try to understand what's going on the to be ready on, to phase it on the, on them to, to go ahead.

2 (5m 7s):
Yeah. And, and what is your work?

3 (5m 10s):
I actually am working the mobile phone company orange and uh, I have is dead with the mystery on the company. So they allow me to, to train on comp, uh, alpha of the year. So I mainly like automa in winter in the office on spring and summer. I can compete trainee train and the teachers Seiko in our school.

2 (5m 31s):
This is a great place to start. So I can't remember who it was that I spoke to about this. When you're on the French team, uh, you're, you can, you can kind of, you can get paid to fly. Greg, you can work for orange and then have a, they have a, they have a system where you're allowed to fly for. Is that a certain amount of time or something? How does that work?

3 (5m 53s):
Yeah. W we have the system. If you are in a, some of the big company like the train station, um, like mine, orange, uh, in fact the company, uh, on some taxis all the time, you are not at work. So it's good for the company and is good for the athletes and it's quite full when to, especially for piloting pilots is quite helpful to us to have time to get the money and to go to the competition on training for sure. You need to find a sponsor to support you or your Bridget for competition.

3 (6m 25s):
But uh, you know, when you, you go to a competition, you don't need to focus on say, Oh, it's good weather. Maybe if I'm at work I can make some tough on them. That is not the case. I know when I'm in competition I can focus on competition and I'm the only fact is you have to stay in the top 12 if I ranking. So it's a bit to pressure.

2 (6m 45s):
Ah, okay. So how many, how many French pilots right now or in your kind of, in your situation where they can, they can work and fly but be supportive to fly

3 (6m 58s):
the in the big company, I think I'm, I'm the last one and then the sum over like he was on a pier, Jaime nephew, they are the leaders to port from the local government's for it. So we don't have the same amount of time as me, but we still have some weeks to do it, which is quite nice. And uh, I think the other one with our students so we don't have the same support. So for sure for sure in to the top level ranking.

3 (7m 29s):
And you have in the company, it's quite a, for us to make a long carrier.

2 (7m 34s):
Is that all decided on ranking?

3 (7m 37s):
Yeah. Yes. Because uh, in fact the mystery, the spot on, that's the first October. If you are in the top 12 when you can apply for it. If you are 15, you cannot.

2 (7m 47s):
Well that is, that is pretty tight. So taking it to the eye and that is, I understand you were the first person in kind of the juniors program, which has now become a thing and a Maxine came up through and Maxine Pino who did really well on the X ops last time and obviously another really good uh, competition pilot. I think honoring did, but what is, what is it in a and B, can you, can you explain, you know, cause this is something completely foreign. I think the most other countries.

3 (8m 17s):
Yeah. This project start in a, as I remember it was 95 on that. I was a, one of the seven uh, children to enter the service system. And it's a Bay's in former former is quite well known in France because it was the area to prepare the athletes for the Olympic games in Mexico. It's on the high level plateau, thousand 500 meters. So it's good to, to get to some like oxygen to be prepared for long racing. So that's why the organized via the school where, so you have like, I don't know, 10 or 20 different spots coming in your ear to, to train your athlete from all Europe coming on certain time of the, of the year to train on the decide to make this pull of a turning for the pilot of pilot there.

3 (9m 4s):
So actually you have some kids from uh, children and some kids who are like 13 to 18 and the year was that I was 18 so it was like only for one year. I knew it when I enter the, it was very secret year because we have the same coach like DJ Zika, which was a French in pilots years ago. And uh, some over coach wrong. And we learned a lot because when I enter the school, you know, I never did a five bigger and maybe 15 K and the one that zipped from the school, I went back to , which was a close to my own place on the next thing that I was able to fly 150 on it.

3 (9m 45s):
But the 60 for my first question to the Alps. So it was very interesting the way the learners just know you many learn about the process on the venue. When you have the condition on you already. You just go tell me more about the process. So we learn, how would you say step by step first, uh, by handling on the ground to be uh, on full control, uh, of our wing when we did some S.I.V. Cause the idea was to not to let us fly as fast as possible first to be in control, on, to be controlled, our scale to be on more and more skills and then we went step by step.

3 (10m 27s):
So I would say we, we we learn to, to climb. So in dynamic or in the thermal activities to be more efficient, thermal to be more aware of that sensation and then step slowly. I'm slowly, we go from tomorrow to optimal on the day after each flight we have like debriefing for some time during one hour we are briefing before the flight everything was uh, organized so we can understand what we do in the air to make a better for the next flight.

3 (10m 57s):
And the, when I keep this process for myself, when, uh, I came back, uh, in the arts at the school, the address, uh, add some more experience, some more skills, some knowledge to, to be a better and better to improve. This is the goal of the schools. So when you get into this program, when you're identified, do you, do you actually that I should ask that, do you sign up for this school or are you picked I would say I send you up to the school because I really want to go there that there is a selection.

3 (11m 37s):
So I think we were like 20 or 30 on when we were only seven place. It's the first year. So they don't make the selection only base on the level of the pilot. The, they were also, when we say first aware, but the um, this is the school level because we don't want to people to be focused too much on piloting. They want to us to, to have a good level of school so we can have free time for him to fly. And the way we know some, some pilots were in the arts, maybe with their parents already flying.

3 (12m 11s):
They have some kind of advantage on the, I was coming from the flats. Uh, I was around to find nobody in my furry, we're flying. So maybe we'll say, okay, maybe if he's the guy we can add a little bit if we put him in the system on the floor. My past experience was, uh, I was climbing, I was running, I made, I was making, uh, in football a lot of activity that I was always trying to go ahead and to push for my, uh, my skills. So I think they feel it when we ask the question and they say, Oh, well maybe this guy who had some potential to, to improve a lot.

3 (12m 47s):
And the idea was not to push us too. The competition. I know, uh, when I started fighting, I didn't want to go to competition competition and finally just become, uh, the tools to, for us to know some more out, to learn from different pilots with ad. Didn't want to go to competitions in, I want to go to cross country.

2 (13m 8s):
Ah, so when you sign up for the program, it's not that the goal of the program isn't to create necessarily race pilots, it's just to create good pilots.

3 (13m 19s):
Yeah. The first year it was more about try to be in good pilot and when the liberal, uh, year after year improve, I would say when you have to make the selection selection, when we select quite a good level of pilot on this pilot, after three years in the school year, we have the word pilots, which was crazy because you have some, a teenager they came, maybe it's the biggest five we did was 30 K on the learn you have to adhere to to improve the scales, to learn about the ms, to learn about tactics.

3 (13m 54s):
But after few years they are to be in the top off the top 20 years of some task in world cup. So this was very interesting and we did that quite a good job.

2 (14m 5s):
Yeah. When I spoke with Maxime a couple months ago about his books and I, and I understand he's done some, some coaching for the French team as well. He talked about kind of these four categories a that you have to focus on for learning and becoming a good pilot. There's the technical side, climbing, gliding, there's the tactical side, you know, your decision making. And then there's the, the mental side is what is the big one. I forget what the fourth one is now that the, the, the mental one was the one that he said was just by far and away, you know, that w w at the high levels and the Superfinal levels, you know, pretty much everybody's a pretty good climber and a pretty good glider and pretty much tactics are that, you know, quite similar, you know, stay in, in the lead gaggle until the end, try to make a break, you know, there's not, there's not a huge difference.

2 (14m 56s):
They're, the huge difference is really in the mental, is that, is that something that the school you went to really focused on as well?

3 (15m 5s):
Yeah, for sure. We, I think that it was, we learned more about when I leave this school, when a, I have the chance to enter the French team and when we get some input but the mountain and how it would be, um, are you would change to our performance because as you say in a like the deliver of the top pilots. If we were getting the skills, yeah, everybody is able to push a full speed. Everybody can the climb good.

3 (15m 36s):
When you have some pilots climbing more or less and the no says the difference is more about the hour you Caesar on the also from the Mancha view, what are you able to do the right thing at the right moment? Because most of us, we know what to do. That to do it at the right moment to have the right trimming doing or the task or the competition is quite, which is quite a demanding and that so easy. Even me, some competition I'm great in on some I will not so so completely out.

3 (16m 11s):
And the, yeah, this is the output of writing Montel pot.

2 (16m 15s):
What do you, what do you attribute that to? In all these years of competing. Well, let me ask you the other question first. So you started the school in 95 when, what was the first year he made the French team?

3 (16m 26s):
I enter the French team in 2008. I did the, yeah, I did the two word capping. It was 98. That was a new C on shamanism on the, in 2020 2000. And in terms of French team, uh, until now and uh, yeah. So I see,

2 (16m 48s):
have you been on the French team every year since 1998?

3 (16m 51s):
Yeah, exactly. How many years in the friendship? We had like a pool of 20, I would say 20, 30 pilots. That's the beginning. And then I need to know, we are like maybe less than 10 because uh, yeah, it's the thing challenge and the Bridget's chance and the, uh, the way it's organized a little bit different. And uh, yeah, in 20 years you can see like, so wing changing, you can see the tactics changing. You can see, uh, yeah, everything was not the money for the pilot to the top level.

3 (17m 27s):
I see. Yeah. The wing was a very big change when the rhino arrived and the van. I think the big challenge after that, the rhino is that most of the pilots, they were to have a really good swing. And the vans, the tactics become more and more important on in the competition.

2 (17m 45s):
So you, you mentioned something that I think a lot of pilots, including myself really struggle with. There are times when you're just in it and I call it that kind of being in the flow. And then there's times where you're just not, have you been able to isolate and drill down on that and figure out better ways to be in it?

3 (18m 7s):
I will say yes. You see some moment, uh, some part of the tasks you say, ah, I'm not in it. And when you try to understand what's going on with your mind on the most of the time when you want to make the results, uh, to fast and you don't have the process to, to focus on what you have to do, uh, at a certain amount of the task, like, uh, I don't know. You are turning, you have to be focused on your feeding on the, uh, like each turn of the turmoil.

3 (18m 38s):
I know you have to focus on one a on the metal or on the pilot turned on me on the show to Focus. Uh, I will miss, uh, the girl, I would miss the research, you know, if you are to focus on the, on the results part to and for sure everything you, you trained for before on the, you organized to make a good, um, a good, the performance when it starts to be destroyed because your mind is not a in the action is too far away.

2 (19m 9s):
Are there, are there things that you've learned over the years, you know, say mantras or something you're writing on your instruments or are there, are there clues that you can, you've been able to grasp onto and resolve that, you know, in flight? Are the things, Hey Charles come back or Charles let your, you know, you're thinking too much. I gotta let my subconscious do more work. Are there, are there things that you've kind of learned or codified to help?

3 (19m 41s):
Uh, I work with, um, Thomas Toria, which is a mentor coach with uh, several pilots include the cradle and the, yeah. The last year, two years I was working with him and uh, I was flying with a fly, no writing on my instruments and the, just to remember, okay, you are in VR, you have to be focused on what to do now and be efficient. No, uh, not just to be in the game, not, uh, uh, already at the goal of what would be the consequences of my results.

3 (20m 19s):
For example, for my, for my, uh, deal with the mystery with my company is a recert at the end of the year. Just the, okay, you are in the race, you are at this moment of task, you are in this situation, what you have to do to be efficient now and focus on it. Nothing else.

2 (20m 38s):
Can you w what was, what was the main thing you went to Thomas for and what, what advice did he give to you? Solve that?

3 (20m 50s):
The main thing for me was where his, uh, the pressure, uh, you have to deal with is I'm going to see the byline evolved with in my job as with the deal is in the company to sell. And Sonia was very complicated to, to, to deal with because you, you have like frequent results, you know, you have to make one complete very good result on the even that you are not, or your note on the front area, you're not in that task.

3 (21m 21s):
You already in your mind is not there. So yeah, you help me to, to refocus on the piloting side when I am in competition and the two likes from this, uh, contract with my company. Cause on one way it's already good. Uh, it's nicely like that. I cannot talk if I'm not focused on competition. I have to have to be able to go to competition to keep my pressure to fly. And the other, you have to enjoy the process to, to compete on not only this for, I will say for my degree of the company that's very special place.

3 (21m 60s):
I will say, I don't know if some, there's not so many pilots that we have is a kind of deal and the only one way super nice deal on another way. Yeah. It can give a little bit stressed. But no, I think that I have to deal with for 10 years. So I learned to, to live with it. And so I would say privilege. So you have to, to face it. No problem.

2 (22m 22s):
Do you, I would imagine that in some ways, you know, that the silver lining of it, I mean there's lots of silver linings there, but I would imagine one of the main silver linings of that kind of situation is it probably keeps you really motivated to fly. That mean. Do you think you'd have the same motivation without it?

3 (22m 42s):
Um, in fact, uh, I don't need to, I would say motivation to, to fly because I love so much flying. I just need to, to go on the fly. I know some, I have some friends who would go for a competition and when we go for a fly they go, we got to train for one, two hours and we don't like to stay at the same place during the flight. So okay. If we make two hours training on Venmo, we want to make a result in competition. But for me, if I spent like five hours in the same terminal, I don't care because I love to be in the air.

3 (23m 17s):
And uh, I come to piloting because I was coming from Montana and from climbing, I first want to use paragliding to get on when I realized I can climb and I can move from one more time to add that one other month only with the pied either on the, I know, even if I do, I'm not competing. I can go on and make cross country for us. I just love to fly

2 (23m 42s):
back to Thomas. How did he help you to relax

3 (23m 46s):
and to distance yourself from the pressure? As many this work we did, uh, we find in the world we, um, w which are linked to some image or some filling, which being me, uh, back to the, present that to the future, the past, the tree. Okay. I see this word in front of me. I know what these words mean. So feeling linked to this words and when I connect I switched to uh, present mode, not to, to move my mind somewhere else.

3 (24m 27s):
Will you keep working with him or is that done? No, we are keep working. We'll keep working together. Wow. Uh, what do you like most about flying? Is that the competition's working with Seiko and instructor flying? Uh, as I say, I love flying. I was used to spell like false for 50 years. I was in a year sometime. Also when I say it was like 400 years or under the, I was in jail during the year.

3 (25m 4s):
Now it's more, it's less like 200 hours on that field. Now, obviously in the past I needed to find a lot to, to solve different situation. Um, I know I feel if I fly under 50 to 200 hours, it's quite a lot of things a year and uh, I feel comfortable with this amount of hours and uh, uh, I'm on Henri when I go to the competition because, uh, if I fly to much, that would be kind of routine that if I fly drones not so much and I really want to be in wear on for me it's more efficient than for the company.

3 (25m 48s):
And the, yeah, I like to try to this country because I came from cross country pop before to go to the competition. I like to discover up to my own decision. I like to fly alone. It's a bit ego is, but it's a one part of the flight alike. And the also the side we started with Seiko it's the school. Uh, I like a lot. I like to share that knowledge with, with the students who are coming, uh, start to give them, uh, feedback information to them to progress, always to, to keep the safety.

3 (26m 22s):
But in mine and the always say that you would be a good pilot or pilots, you know, on the years after years, we all realize that it's just true and I really push all pilots are so what's a, whatever the level they are, just go to S.I.V. To turn your skills on, visit with them that you know, I needed five years ago. Uh, by that I say I don't care. You just go your show on the, on when you come back, you know, it's like, uh, you, your sensors, your cards to the garage every year to, to check if you need anything working.

3 (26m 58s):
Well, yeah. And it's the same for the pilot. You have to go with your wing to, to, to learn to improve your scales, um, just to become better. You cannot just stay a new chair and say, okay, yeah, or you aren't as, I'm a good pilot. I would buy that. I can find underwear that can, I say, okay, you fly them. If I go, do you understand what I'm going on in there? That you have to be the paid out under the UN and the, you have to know how you would react in every situation. You have to learn how your wing, your new wing is.

3 (27m 31s):
We react as well. So, uh, Seiko his way. He's the coach for the S.I.V. For me. She's amazing. She's the only one who was a compiler in a cross country. She was a compiler in echo. She is test pilot instructor. She has a really good overview. What's going on with the wing on was a pilot pilot. Very, very react on the form. It's very interesting. I learn a lot from uh, on the hour she, she train or she focused on the, on trying this.

3 (28m 7s):
Very interesting.

2 (28m 9s):
Yeah. Yeah. And I think you guys really broke terrific ground with what you're doing there at the school and sharing these videos is, I always think back to Russ Ogden gave a terrific talk hear in sun Valley right after the world cup in 2012. And he obviously knows a lot about wing design. And back then he was still recommending, which I know he's changed his mind on now, but he, you know, he was still recommending that it wasn't really a good idea to do S.I.V.

2 (28m 42s):
On, you know, on our comp wings, you know, so back there, back then and open class wings and now cereal class wings, but you know, that, you know, the hotter end of the scale two liners, uh, you know, that that was just, you know, you should still do S.I.V. On a lower level weighing because if they went, you know, they, they, they were very hard to recover and you guys have shown, I mean, and also wings have changed and you know, the CCC classes is definitely tamp down on say on our 11.

2 (29m 15s):
But, um, you know, you guys have shown that, uh, you know, you really should do it and you should do it frequently and you know, if done well that you can do it safely.

3 (29m 27s):
Yeah. Well, we have the ComPilot coming in, for example. and if he tells us, uh, it's my first S.I.V. It's pen, you know, and so it will be my first dog ever. Yeah. You know, my first thought I did it after 10 years of flying. Yeah. And I was playing the cross cultural thing for a long time. It was not the, I would say a, yeah, it was nothing.

3 (29m 59s):
The move at this time when I was flying, I was playing like, uh, prototype everything. I, I never did story before. And when I went on there was a French and we say, okay, now you want to go for competition, you have to bus to pass by as a S.I.V. Costs. So when we go two S.I.V. My first S.I.V., what was it? I don't remember with the prototype from Atlanta. So now we've, uh, no, I was with these kind of prototype here on the sales, you know, you go for a S.I.V., go for a stall with full speed collapse.

3 (30m 34s):
And then if I think, uh, to these, uh, with more years of expound, I say we're crazy to go and buy furthest S.I.V. Levies. I know our students who come with no experience in S.I.V. Even verify in compression when we told them, okay, you are with her to come with a lower level wing because it would be more easy to get the, to learn the skills, to learn the tools to see your reaction. And then when you manage the situation where you have the UW, you underwear use, uh, the tools to recover.

3 (31m 10s):
So different tools then, okay, you move to your CCC wing. And when you just adapt, you adapt your skills to be swing. Otherwise it's too much a thing moving. And the there is too much stressful as a pilot. So for me it's normal. So it's why would we go step by steps? No, we just, we just, I did not to make the Syracuse uh, this uh, this neuron two of, you know, we said to the, to the students, we don't, you don't pay on the car to, to have, uh, I will say when you come to learn and when you go back home you have to to some tools in your baggage, some tool you can make on your words the water.

3 (31m 52s):
So on some tool you master when you can try a thumb or improve cause some tool, even if you try in VR, if you don't master a huge, we just go in worst situation. So it's better you learn some tool which you know, you learn some CTR. Shan you have some experience and when you know when you will be able to under or not on when we need to use your rescue or not.

2 (32m 14s):
Yeah. It seems like to me that's almost the most important thing that S.I.V. Teaches you is, I mean it's all important, but the big one is what situation am I in right now and how long is this going to take to fix because then then you know if you should throw, and it's, I think a lot of people say, well we know this. A lot of people hit the ground because they tried to fix it too long.

3 (32m 39s):
Oh well we don't have

2 (32m 40s):
the right tools for the situation of a donut. The tools and sometimes if you have the tools on, you know it's, you know, it's like in the air, you know in which iteration of the, the task you are in. What you have to do in this moment on you will not think to go full speed in which you need to climb. And the same when you have a something going on with your wing on S.I.V., you would use the right tool at the right moment on this moves the situation. And when it's more easy to, to recover for sure some situation that you cannot recover because to complicate it for you, for your wing or your level.

2 (33m 16s):
So it was the rescue is, maybe it's the only issue, but at least you think to use the rescue, cause we have some part of doing the water sometime even don't think to use the rescue, the rescue in the course. Don't tell them to rescue rescue, you know? Wow. How often should people do S.I.V.?

3 (33m 34s):
I would say if you are able to do one buyer, it's just amazing if you can do one every two years, especially when you change your wing and the orphans, the pilot, they say, Oh I've come to S.I.V. My all the way in because I will change next week on that. I don't want to make S.I.V. New when I say so when you come, you better come with your new wing, you know, buffering. So you can, uh, show what to do and you can do it again with the new in because the new thing with, uh, different, uh, so to know how to react and when you are prepare for the old season or for the next two year, understand that we don't want to damage the wing.

3 (34m 22s):
Usually you don't, you don't emit showing up artificial blood like you're complaining with very thin line and it's quite okay.

2 (34m 29s):
Hmm. One of the things that I, I've been practicing quite a bit since watching your videos is the whole kind of double knock, you know, so you, you, you know, you get it almost a stall, let it go again and then you've stalled very, very, very much an acro full stall. It's not, you know, just stall out and keep your hands down. It's real quick and you let it fly again. And you know, from your videos you only lose very minimal height, you know, 15 meters kind of thing. But I did and it works fantastic. It's just, it's just terrific the way Seiko works through that in her videos.

2 (35m 3s):
And I encourage all you who are listening that if you haven't seen these, go check them out. They're the all have all the links in the show notes for this. But the Charles I've always struggled with the, even the thought of doing that in a true combat situation. I just, I believe I would have a hard time doing the double a in a combat situation. I think I would just acro stall it. W what have you guys learned? And that is that only, you know what I'm saying is it's just, you know, to be mindful enough to know, do it like that, uh, in, in a situation where things are pretty radical pretty fast, isn't it still okay to just stall it and let it go?

3 (35m 48s):
Um, and I will say what is most important is now when you will need to stall you in. Exactly. Because I was, most of the time we have some cravat like not quite big crowds, but even with a spin, you know, he can recover all the credit. I would say on my 25 years expand of pilots. Um, I never did a store because I needed, no, I just did the store, uh, during the S.I.V..

3 (36m 18s):
Yeah. Otherwise only with, uh, been I can recover as a club, but you were in need to have quite a huge part of your wing going foods, uh, the canopy on the line to be able to join him to make a huge store. And if you have like some big crowds, uh, which you need to make a store anywhere, I would say not as soon as you touch a under, but almost you will put a little bit on the U when we store because you're, you when we, uh, the circus smaller area open, no, you will maybe pull a five cm on the spot with stall.

3 (36m 54s):
So I don't think you will be able to make a diverse, um,

2 (36m 60s):
yeah, well, you know, you're saying he won't even get to there. I see what you're saying. So you really know when you, when you're thinking, when you're, when you're having to go in to stall or to a back flier tail slide to get a Corvette out, you're never going to get to that point. As soon as you start pulling brake on the, on the carotid side, it's going to spin. Yeah. Okay. So, so most in most cases, even with the really high aspect wings, you can just spin it out to that side. And in, in, in my experience in like in your videos, it's pretty quick.

2 (37m 30s):
It's, you know, it's 90 degrees, 120 degrees and it's out

3 (37m 35s):
exactly on the, I was used too to make it feel the um, with the under, with the brake. Uh, sometime when I was using the beach, you know, cause we have some intuitions, the guy who breaks the line of the bridge. So what you are, what you need to. I was, I'm speaking only about to right now and a for sure if the trainer, it's real easy. You put it to be, you can make out spin when the weave of the wing, like when you have Free four line for sure. It's the difference.

2 (38m 4s):
Hmm. Hmm. I've heard some of the Acura pilots that I've interviewed on the show that they have this, it seems to be this magic number that you've got to do 300 full stalls. You've got to do 300 stalls and I shouldn't use in terms of full stall, but you've got to do 300 stalls before you really start getting it. You know, you've got to do a lot. Is that, is that kind of what you and Seiko or pushing as well?

3 (38m 25s):
Yeah, you need to do a lot to be a master. I think Seiko she did like, I dunno how many thousand she did, but quite a lot because she was used to go to ganja on 22 and where, and uh, I did less, uh, the, the, uh, quite a lot with the competition because, and the last two 10 years I was fighting Olivia's the company, uh, aparts of the side of the coaching where I'm using a some more easy wings and the, yeah, the storm Mandy on the competition wing or is maybe it's the last two years, um, more with the little occurring, like not accruing like freestyle cause that was very uh, uh, uh, Eddie copter.

3 (39m 10s):
So before to learn the Kotel Seiko should say, okay, you've got to stall, stall, stall. So I was making just to get more skilled and more filling before to go for free helicopter. And that, I would say the air is very nice. He was already become the sensitive pilot and when I can use restorative, uh, feeding for, so to fly my commission wing. So this is nice.

2 (39m 37s):
Do you feel like the anchor training you've been doing in these years with Seiko, has it really helped your cross country flying as well?

3 (39m 45s):
Yeah. Yeah. Cause I would say it's helped me too, um, to understand better what was going on with my, uh, competition wing and uh, if I feel under some data was going on the sun that it was a fitting. Sure. I feel more comfortable. I feel more precise in my own Ling so everything will be better for me on the, also I get more confidence with my competition ring even. Uh, I'm used to, I mean I'm training with a calling cause I go to in some situation in which I can try again with the, um, it's the competition wing, not the infinity, like a helicopter situation.

3 (40m 26s):
And you can go is a competition wing is still okay. You don't damage the wing. So

2 (40m 33s):
yeah, I've always thought that's really sexy. I'm not at that level with helicopters. I haven't tried it yet, but I have seen people do it. It is, yeah, that's, that's a nice move. Um, Charles I want to switch lanes here to, to comp flying in strategy and tactics and all that. But before I do have we, is there anything else you wanted to say about your school or about S.I.V. In that side of the training?

3 (40m 59s):
I would say with the, with the school we are quite happy because we stopped like since three years with Seiko and uh, we have a special unit of pilot from us going for us to meet us for S.I.V. On a cross country, which is very nice and uh, yeah, uh, Japan all over the world. So it's a good time of the year when we are doing coaching on the, it's always a good time, like small, like a, let me say, family atmosphere. She really Seiko you want to bring the atmosphere from the school of Japan in Europe.

3 (41m 30s):
So it's what we, uh, we're trying to do is fun.

2 (41m 35s):
Yeah, it sounds, it sounds fun and I like the videos you guys are putting out are, are really terrific. So hats off to you for that and I hope you keep doing it. Okay. Let's switch to racing. At Maxine pointed out that, you know, to him the, the, the Mark of a really good pilot like yourself and Julian and the guys that are ah, and girls, uh, that are really consistent like that. That's the kind of consistently in that top 10 that's the Mark of a really good pilot.

2 (42m 10s):
If what we know about, you know, technique and tactics are, you know, most of the pilots say it's certainly at a Superfinal level. You know, again, these, you know, most of the guy, you know that the, the difference between climbing is, you know, low percentile, one to 3% maybe, uh, the difference between gliding maybe the same. Uh, so, you know, we talked about the mental thing, but what's the, what are the kinds of breakaway differences between the, you know, those folks that you just consistently see on the podium and the top 10 and the rest.

2 (42m 47s):
And is this something that, you know, you're obviously focusing on in the French team?

3 (42m 53s):
Um, I've seen it for the guy who are on a regular II, on the, on the top, on the podium, I would say valuable to, to fight with the group. Very consistent on the way they're in control of the group. But on the other hand, if when they are alone, they are super efficient to fly alone. And uh, so if they are behind they can, uh, catch a group. But if the group respite they can fly very efficiently. Julia, um, for some civilian pilots they can really fly fast alone even in the poop and the, um, yeah, I think this is really what makes uh, the top pilot cause you don't need to be to master the group to fly but on the keep and use it as the maximum of the task that when like a, when the group speed, when you have the advantage, it's the last part of the task.

3 (43m 52s):
When we are able to go and uh, we always, we were quite big margin compared to some pilots who already had always attack during the task at that attack advance. Sometimes we are stuck on VM. So this is uh, apart even though you see the condition, but okay, you keep in your process to stay with the groups and when you have the opportunity, when you tried to, to escape, maybe he's the guy who follow you. I saw some guy like URI village, this guy is amazing, you know, is flying maybe, I don't know, less than 50 hours.

3 (44m 27s):
A buyer is not competing. It's competing only in the main competition on is always at the top on. The relax is always in good position position in the group and uh, it don't take much risk. And I'm like okay, you always arrive. Like the leading a group of the task and day by day is with uh, he's been doing is a final ranking like this and a, on the other hand you have some guy we want to say to him to win some tasks and some with my good, someday we make less good results.

3 (45m 8s):
But what you, what is important is you average on the VM, even though he was the scoring changing a bit. You used to be consistent on the top. You're for sure. You can have some discount issue, play with this too much, you know, and there you, we will miss some, uh, some good discard for your top results.

2 (45m 29s):
Can you talk about, one of the things I heard recently was that the French team is trying to, or maybe they already have completed it. It's almost like a, I think of it like chess, you know, really good chess masters. It's the first move by the, the first guy and there's almost like an auto response for the second move on it and they don't have to think about it. It's just what you do to that, you know, that move requires that move and then the next move requires that move and that it's in the beginning.

2 (45m 59s):
I mean the chess is all about the beginning, but it is, it becomes very easy for, you know, chess masters. Uh, so we, we call that like codifying, you know, and I understand the French team is, is really codified what you should do well based on where you are. In other words to, to eliminate more mistakes. Cause usually when you get behind, if you start really trying to push to catch up, you, you could, uh, add more mistakes and just, and it gets worse and worse.

2 (46m 34s):
And so you, you know, they always say, you know, you concentrate on just flying. Well and eventually the lead gaggle will get caught somewhere and you can catch up. But is there, can you share any of those kinds of rules that the French team has developed? In other words, you know, if you're, if you're midway in the gaggle and the, the lead guys get to the top and they start going, do you go then or do you go to the top? You know, are there, are there things like that that are just, in other words, they're trying to give you guys rules so you don't have to think as much.

3 (47m 10s):
I would just say for sure he did two sticks to the gaggle. If you want to try to derive with them at VM, that when you have to also to, to be objective about to what the information on you have. For example, if you are you a nice value where you're climbing, when you see this guy going. For myself, I would just stay in my term or long climb as long as my bio is good for the day on when I would move.

3 (47m 41s):
Because if you move too fast, so when you arrive a, for sure he can not arrive by I have and the guy who are starting, I have a new know when it's live with speed apart. If you get a good line, it's that it's not, uh, I say realistic. So maybe I don't see race, some Wars where you have to go and the guy who are living

2 (48m 6s):
well not, not necessarily that, but just, just kind of general rules that uh, maybe that was a bad example, but you know, just kind of depending on where you are in a gaggle or on a course, you know, if it's early, if it's the middle, if it's the late, late in the, in, in the race. Are there things that the the French team has kind of drilling in, in terms of discipline?

3 (48m 29s):
I think that the, the new when the old ones, the old one, I'm on a freestyle mode. On the old tools, like I say, our generation, like my crew, the like, uh, improving our glide, watching mr Mons, uh, BOL, uh, air mass information moment and be creative on the for sure the new generation, what I see on the, on the new French, uh, coach and pilot generation, well not so well to fly cross country, uh, so efficient as uh, as earth.

3 (49m 12s):
But in competition were amazing. It was very steep. As you say with the group. They have some words like they have, they always need to have some pilot be below them. No. So you use the information issue. I have the guy who used buy the over you, we'll lose one moment with each of the, the guy who was making the game in your life. Then pilot below you, you, you just use them when at your level you just, uh, uh, find the good pilot to follow, uh, then step by step to would be more helpful for you to catch the, the pilot.

3 (49m 49s):
If you go with the crazy in front for sure you have less chance to find the turmoil or you would take more time when you find it. The of the guy who would just get you on the crease for nothing. So I think the new one, new generation, very disciplined one, uh, the other one. So when we are learning from them anyway, he says again, you always have some young coming on. You would catch you experience of knowledge, but you have to catch him.

3 (50m 22s):
Uh, the spirits, the experience in college as well otherwise just overtook. You.

2 (50m 29s):
Give us some advice for pilots that are just getting into competitions, you know, what should you focus on? What are some of the things that you'd want to pass on to maybe that younger generation or even the older generation that's just discovering comps

3 (50m 45s):
for, I would say don't try to make your results to try to make you a great performance. So I would say if you focus on the results, teachers give you a on some stress or some stuff like this. If you are focused on the performance, you would be focusing in the process like, Oh, you have to be ready on takeoff or you have to manage your position on your timing too to be the right position for stocks.

3 (51m 17s):
Like when, okay Vista kind of stuff. Doing all the tasks on the, if you step by steps, you will make a good food process to arrive to gold. Maybe. Okay, maybe you are, I don't know, 20, 15 years after I was the first. The program after you will reduce your margin, you will improve your tax tactics. You in fly a little bit, maybe a little bit faster on the part where you know, you can find it faster and the step by step you will adjust. Catch the top pilots that don't, uh, don't focus on the results.

3 (51m 50s):
I would say the results can be, uh, the final goal. But when you have to build a, some, uh, um, little goal to, to improve your scales, improve your tactics in the way you do, find the information in Vietnam or you use it to, to be more efficient.

2 (52m 14s):
So you should have been down in Brazil right now competing in the Superfinal in which was canceled of course, because Corona, can you, was there any kind of things you were working on before you went in terms of, or are there things you do, either mental exercises or physical exercises or anything to help? What do you do to get prepared for something like the Superfinal or a world cup? You know, high level race.

3 (52m 42s):
So the last four months before going to Brazil, I was in office every day. So I would say maybe I've added to flight for months because it was winter time air on the every day. It was good when I was walking on when it was a resident, it was raining or snowing. So it was a timing this year. And uh, I spend most time skipping in the gallery, in the garage when flying.

3 (53m 13s):
I was very physically a food preparer, uh, the new wing. And, um, so what we do before going to the camp, so we have the on the experience on track from the previous competition where, so our coach is making a crazy job. Like he takes all the data from the last maybe five or six, uh, in a row. And the way we have some as a truck coming from CU, we have some, uh, debriefing with information or was the condition or was it raised with day.

3 (53m 51s):
So we can uh, introduce ourselves on the, um, it's the topography on the ideology of what we can, uh, with what you can face. I have experience for them to come in and then, uh, what, that's why we myself, when I'm flying for a long time, I just um, use map to set some we say yes, some tasks, even maps in the Alps, you know, um, just to stay in the process.

3 (54m 24s):
So what I have to do in the air to go for one point, uh, to another and the basic thing, climbing, transition, just to imagine on flying to get this fitting and the on some parts I would just say close my eyes. Imagine, I'm telling what, what kind of action I'm doing with um, what, uh, I can correct and the OK, I'm a no, I did like a 50 K I want to go full speed so I can imagine I'm going full speed.

3 (54m 57s):
What I'm looking in, where I'm looking. So canopy to my riser, the instruments out, like I can organize all this timing to, to catch up every information I need on the HRD. This is the only way I can fly it when I'm, uh, I need to go to work on, it's not fireball on the resume. So you do in a lot of visualization. I do a visualization like this because I can, he can fly. If it's not to fly, I need to do to keep the process on, keep, try to keep the fitting and the key, like automatic reflex I have in the air to catch information, to use the information and to be efficient.

3 (55m 46s):
So this is the way you should come fly, let's say for a long time. I think it's a, it's a good process on a, I used to do it several times during the winter. I don't say that we do it every day, but maybe one per week we'll focus on doing stuff like this. Or even when I'm keeping with the rock in my garage, I can, uh, move my mind to the flight path. So I'm skipping with a, okay, I imagine I'm in where I'm flying.

3 (56m 18s):
Uh, I'm going for 1.2, one hour. So what I'm doing in here, I'm pushing, I'm turning. No, I have to work for his profess process. Even in a, in a moment I'm going to do some sports. So for me, I will say it's a good, a good point for me to, to keep connecting with the paragliding.

2 (56m 41s):
How important is fitness to something like the Superfinal when you're racing for potentially 12 days,

3 (56m 49s):
you need to be fit to, uh, under Ewing for let's say four or five hours. The most important is to be able to recover. So you are, you get traded everyday for each task. So I would not say that you need the crazy training physically, but you need to, to sleep good. You need to eat well. You need to, to prepare thing.

3 (57m 18s):
And, uh, so you are a hundred percent of your potential. This is a many bottoms for me. When I go to the camp, you should train. Uh, I know for myself I need to train because if I train a good, my mentor will be ready. I know some pilots we don't need to go to get ready or physically, but it's uh, the process to be ready for the comp. But mine, I like to know I did all my best to be ready. So when I'm in comp I will not think, Oh, maybe I need to train more physically to be ready for the comp.

3 (57m 54s):
No, I did it. So the only to think about it.

2 (57m 59s):
What kind of mental, where are you trying to get, uh, you know, before you show up to a Superfinal and then kind of each day, do you have any kind of routine or anything that you do to get in the right frame of mind and what, what is that frame of mind? Are you trying to be Uber relaxed? Are you just trying to be Uber aware? Are there other things that you're chasing in terms of where you are in terms of your head space?

3 (58m 24s):
So generally I will say I'm quite a relaxed guy and that's very exciting. So it's quite easy for me to be relaxed. I don't need, uh, many, uh, tools, activity or on me to, to feel good. Uh, um, many need to wake up on takeoff and the other, for my experience on the years, I don't need to make something very special during the course.

3 (58m 55s):
What are the main thing I do? I know I like to have my, a baggy with my instrument, everything ready. Uh, like when a, in the morning when I wake up, okay, everything is ready. I know when I have to go up, I take my bag, I go, it's ready. And the way that I'm takeoff, you know, sometime we have some, some tasks we have to wait Free for hours on the takeoff, nothing happened of it. The one thing to briefing Free briefing and the chance of the tasks.

3 (59m 27s):
So if I say you are too much, Oh, where every time he was the big thing. Uh, when they say consult new briefing, always the, you make it up and down. So usually when I put my helmet on, close the glass informed, uh, I'm connected with the task. This is the moment I can be in the briefing prepared to the task, aware about to what we would have to do. Okay. When I put my honesty on the clip, my limits on that I'm in.

2 (1h 0m 1s):
Yeah. In Maxime calls at the kinds of the funnel effect, you know, as he gets closer and closer to launch, you get more and more focused and in tuned in to what you're about to do. You don't want distractions and other things at that point.

3 (1h 0m 18s):
Um, even in VR, you need to find the right, uh, uh, level of to relax on to our, if you want to be able to catch all the information, uh, the main information you need, uh, each one of the flight. Because if you are, I'll say to too much, uh, not nervous but to active. Maybe you will, uh, miss when information, which is clothes from you. If you have to relax, maybe, uh, things will happen during the task.

3 (1h 0m 49s):
In term of tactics on, you are not aware about what's going on. So it's always be streaming, which is not so, so easy to, to find. So maybe some someday on sentence certain paths of the task. If I, I feel I will say maybe a bit sleepy, maybe a full activity, I will be more able to use yoga pilots for respect to the task on the Vienna when I feel the more for us to try to be maybe more, well for the staff or for the Island of the tasks because I know that this last maybe 20, 25 J which I was an important moment to, to be focused on what's going on, on, to not to lose, uh, sometime on the, on the best pilots of the day.

2 (1h 1m 36s):
How important is it, you know, I tend to get really probably way too relaxed about whether it comps, I just don't even pay any attention. Uh, am I blowing it? I, you know, you get your briefing in the morning and you fly with everybody else and I just don't find it's that relevant. But how important is it or how much are you looking at the, whether when you're at a comp,

3 (1h 1m 60s):
sometime we look too much at the whatever and when things that appear to be completely detracting the task. Uh, but for sure it's good to, we look to the waiver to know what would be the study of the day. You know, it's like a football game. You are, you have to on which is the aura. Well we would love the task. You have to know how it would walk as we are on route 50 pirates in the year. You would see very fast. Oh it works.

3 (1h 2m 32s):
What is interesting to know how it will evolve. It will change to remove during the day to also be ready to adapt. Your um, your timing or your altitude, the flying, the, it's in parts, uh, the waiver would be helpful for sure. For sure. It's different when you have to fight cross country or when you have to fight like you, uh, exert. Whereas the weather is so much important from a follower was a very important event.

3 (1h 3m 9s):
Sometimes the iReady a push her out in the Southern condition, but you have to be, you have to use every window to, to make sure in flight that's been working. It looks like

2 (1h 3m 23s):
Charles you mentioned that one of the real pitfalls, uh, people can get into early on especially, but obviously at any time in a career as to think to much about the results, are there other pitfalls, other things that, you know, in your 25 years, things you look back and, uh, I could have avoided that or I could have done that differently.

3 (1h 3m 46s):
So I would say the flyer, when you progress flight with a wink for your level, flying in the condition of your level, which is also important on then when you build your skills step-by-step, you know, he can go with a different wing, maybe with more performance, but you need to have his couple with pilot on the wing, always in, uh, connected to the C to always able to faze, uh, the air mass.

3 (1h 4m 21s):
You, we'll uh, you will have, you have to much spider to who want to fly with more performance. We have the wing, but finally they are less efficient in where, because eh, they come as as good in, uh, some a strong condition because the wing is too demanding for them. And maybe we do a flying with the previous wing. We, we've uh, which has less performance was more easy. They can, uh, we were able to fly quite big distance. So you have to be really in French we say Modeste I don't know and I'm very accept your, the time you can a put in paragliding the um, training or competition, the, the lever you want to go and the time you will need to, to reach this level.

3 (1h 5m 18s):
If you can find on the 30 years prior, it would be maybe more time. Oh, during the first year I was, we would fly who I need to be super organized, but every year we would fly. You will, uh, on not only fly, you will learn something, you will progress. Um, I think also, this is one of the difference I had in my career is when I was playing four, $400 a year, I was crying like, okay, was playing in cross country. I was flying under the, the last, uh, 10 years.

3 (1h 5m 53s):
Uh, even if I make a one hour flight, I know, okay, I say this our flight, it's for fun or it would be for training. If it's for training, I will, uh, uh, my flight in several parts. I know. Okay. In competition, a push, pushing full football at the end, it's quite a important moment. Well, maybe we do it on it for five or 10 minutes, so I need to, to work for it. Even if I, I fly only one out to them, I need to walk doing 10 to 20 or I dunno, 15 minutes only for full bar to get the fitting to get the feedback.

3 (1h 6m 31s):
So the feedback, so when I go to competition, I'm ready for it. So, uh, I feel I'm that good in terms of I have a lack of feeling. Okay. Even if it's a super good day to make, maybe, I don't know, 200 K I would just take to the local area on that we'd climb, I would go to and I would come, I will go down just to improve my uh, my skill. My, my feeling is just not only about uh, take off, make your under the curve on, come back to when you're talking about every flight into an opportunity to train and learn.

3 (1h 7m 5s):
Maybe for sure if I would say maybe not every flight that if you have a goal for sure it's better because you, when you try to reach this goal on when you improve yourself and you have some material to make your debriefing and it's always better for the pilot to improve on the other end that will, I know that we make some flights on time. I don't want to make a goal. I just want to fly for fun on which is normal because you should always like, uh, if you always go to fly with, uh, when you fell at work, you know it is good to go to go to fly and you are like on the beach, you to take yourself and your guns away and you just a fun and a, but if you'll go to the boat, if you go to this to make a, I don't know, to make your results in competition to make a distance in the cross country for sure your, and you need to pass by some uh, flights.

3 (1h 8m 4s):
But for some training which helps you to improve your skills and you, um, you live faster. Like in every sport course you cannot, you cannot only play, it's not a, I need to walk the train.

2 (1h 8m 22s):
Yeah. Do you, last question Charles when you talk about goals and goal setting, could you share some of yours, cause it sounds like it's more appropriate to set a goal. Like a, I want to be a better climber. I want to, you know, learn how to pick better lines. I want to have, in other words, I want to make goals align with becoming a better pilot, not necessarily a goal of, uh, I want to be top three at the world.

3 (1h 8m 55s):
So I can explain something like that. The last year maybe you see as the most of the Superfinal they were the, they were in fact, there are not, uh, not much in a, in the mountain and light. 10 years ago I, I was living a very close on Saturday and I say, okay, now we will move like a on the other side of the mountain because it's, uh, it's the only flat around in the art spot when I'm flying where I can train.

3 (1h 9m 26s):
So we move all the family day with us in this park and I say, okay, now you have to take off. It's uh, under the 50 meters, uh, I reach. So it's quite not, uh, it's not very, I, he has the flat infants on the, uh, the main, which is a 10 KBI. And I say, okay, now I will turn there because I know I can fly easily. And the on the mountain, he was the rich with what I need to for the full, the competition. Its to improve my skill in the shot.

3 (1h 9m 56s):
So I need to move and move my myself to the flat to be able to train as much as I can and the way to get the skills for it. Because when you come from the mountain and with rich to follow, when you arrive in the flats on the somebody that you use the line and when you say which time, so you have to fly in the for us to understand that I was a thing at walking the flat, uh, to be aware about a different element. You need to be efficient on the ice and I know that too in a lot in my Besara with sideways in the front when I'm on the vent, okay you understand what's going on with the terminal.

3 (1h 10m 37s):
You can use a the line and we should finally utilize the very same line over in some Tamar activity always on at the same way which people look aligned with for any to only talk which you eat every time. When you learn a out to exert from the thermal with some, when you're on out to interview them all, you know, out to demo better and Weaver with Wayne or to drift. If we the 30, 40 kilometer winds in the flat and the way, this is the kind of thing that you are, you have to go to train on to improve.

3 (1h 11m 10s):
If you only fly from the rich, you will never

2 (1h 11m 15s):
arrive in this kind of situation. And you can say, no, I like that approach. Uh, you gotta you gotta train and you have to train if you wanna play the game. Charles thank you very much. I really appreciate it. And it's a, its fantastic to hear your voice. It's been been too long. I'm sorry you're not down at the Superfinal and, but uh, I think that seems to be some silver linings with all of this. Uh, and I hope you're enjoying time with your family and I'm sure you are.

2 (1h 11m 47s):
And when we, by the time the show comes out in the world will have radically changed. So I can't even predict, but, uh, just be safe and, and, uh, investee man.

3 (1h 11m 58s):
Yeah, things would be changed the law for sure. So I just want to wish all the best to the pilot in committee. We are family friends and uh, let's see. Our things would go on the, uh, wish Gavin we can have, uh, a nice beer on BBQ in Japan.

1 (1h 12m 18s):
Yes. I, Oh, I do too. I hope that happens. Well, we shall see. I don't, I don't think the U S has taken this seriously enough early enough, but, uh, and so we'll see. I think we're going to be following and they say we're about 11 days behind what's happening in Spain and France and Italy right now. So we shall see. But yeah, fingers crossed. It would be wonderful to have a beer with you in Shalane and do some flying together. Thank you very much. And I need to get Saco on the show as well.

1 (1h 12m 49s):
It'd be awesome to talk to her. Yeah. Well cool. Well, I know it's getting a little bit later. You're part of the world. Uh, so I'll let you go, but thanks very much. Bye. Bye. Bye bye.

0 (1h 12m 60s):

1 (1h 13m 10s):
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