Episode 101- Primoz Susa and the art of the SEND

Primoz flying the Hochkoenig, Austria. Photo Alex Robe

Primoz Susa is the pilot you will see year after year at the top of the rankings on XContest. He’s been sending huge, huge lines for years, competed in the 2009 Red Bull X-Alps, flies tandems commercially, guides, flies a LOT of competitions, and on most Hammertag days in the Alps the guy you’ll see (along with Alex Robe, who we listened to in episode 98) right at the top of the XContest top scores. We begin this talk hearing about Primoz’s 2009 X-Alps, where he was eliminated early but then carried on solo all the way to Monaco and had some really tenuous and spectacular moments. Then we dive into Primoz’s history of flying that started in 1996 and how he went from dreaming of flying as a child to flying some of the biggest triangles and flights that have ever been done in the history of the sport. We discuss the importance of goal setting; having a plan for the day; the importance of flying competitions and advice for pilots new to comps; how to climb faster; why it’s important not to care if you bomb out; the trap of chasing numbers; solving the mystery of gliding well and the importance of making adjustments; tricks of the XC trade and using Macready; speed bar best use; flying in the Sertau in Brazil; the rules of team flying; bivvy flying tactics; flying with enough margin (relative altitude) and having a backup plan; what to look for and where to find it with weather and identifying a big day, and a lot more. Enjoy- then get out and go BIG!

Alex Robe and Primoz Susa after a big day

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Show Notes:

  • Primoz recounts his 2009 Red Bull X-Alps campaign
  • The importance of setting goals
  • Finding the rhythm
  • Advice for flying competitions and how to approach them when you are new
  • How to climb and the biggest mistakes newer pilots make
  • Gliding well and making adjustments
  • Preparing for a big day
  • Speed bar use and Macready
  • How to team fly
  • Flying the sertau of Brazil
  • The importance of flying with good instruments
  • If you could rewind the clock and finding the balancing between risk and reward
  • Flying with enough margin and having a back up
  • Why? Who gives a shit?

Mentioned in this episode:

Alex Robe, Aaron Durogati, XContest, Honza Rejmanek, Toma Coconea, Red Bull X-Alps, Alex Hofer, Dave Turner, Chrigel Maurer, Rafael Saladini, Samuel Nascimento, Marcelo Prieto, Michael Sigel, Donizete Lemos, Matt Henzi, Mitch Riley, FlyWithAndy, Naviter


Photo Alex Robe

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Episode 101- Primoz Susa and the art of the SEND

00:00:18 - 00:05:19

during all aw either everybody welcome to episode one hundred one of the cloud base mayhem recorded this sitting in a car with Prima Susa quite a few weeks back when I was back in Slovenia in Europe and we had a really nice talk. I had a chance to fly live with he and Alex Roby Earner Godley and a bunch of other guys on a really fun Triangle Day and Anthony Back in July and I've been wanting to sit down with Primoz because long along with Alex Roby and we had this great show with Alex roby a few episodes back. You haven't heard that one you must it's just packed with information but if you look at X. Contests right now I think Alex is in third and number one in he's often in that position is my guest today produce so he's incredible pilot but from Slovenia been at this game really longtime as some great insights on how to keep it safe to fly big lines how to glide well and I say we we couldn't find a really quite place to do it there at the campground so we just jump in his car and turn on the recorder and and we talked so please enjoy the show with Primo Shusa an awesome pilot who knows how to how to go big and I think you'll get a lot out of this enjoy to build a giant. Dan Great to talk to him and I've been wanting to talk to you for years. I thought a good place for rush to start is two thousand nine. You competed in the x Alps. I'm still coming off the whole kind of the downside of competing accepts was find and it Kinda hard after the race like you've done so much training and preparation and everything and also like on now. What do you do. What's a what's something that still for you really. Lee stands out from the race when you think back on it. Is there a particular flight or particular walker something something crazy that happened in the race that still oh Craxi up. I fell out of the race a liens and then I rest for about four days and then I continue solo with just my gear because my idea was to finish Jesse fell out of the race. You were eliminated. I was eliminated and so I continue on my own and the there was actually I took off the team times on the whole route until I reach knees but the kind of the best flight I had won. The scariest was landing in Martini. The best flight was from Britain down to it's a small village should order. It's almost it's like fifty kilometers from me and then the last day it was the end of end of the earth. It was so big thunderstorms so I was walking but it didn't touch me at all so I was. I started work early in the morning and I was walking the last fifty case L. distance down to niece and the whole day I was working and one guy comes down. He said because we meet the day before and he said it behind you. It's the end of the world and I'm walking down and this is just a lot of wind the value everywhere and I was just giving me policy to to finish this walk and the whole day I was walking behind me that this is Kamilo huge going limos was growing and at the end of the day when I reached down these cloud was just I mean it literally managed into the sky so the whole thing wherever you could see was this huge moon in developing the whole day and just covering everything in the end so this was like the end aww as how long did it take to finish the course because I was going quickly if there was one month it because so I stayed because that was the year that was your Honda got third. That was the year it was a really bad weather year plus really bad weather you. Toma did quite well that you're because he basically screen ran the whole thing. I'm not sure because then after I stopped stopped following so I was just going out so I was on the road like I didn't follow anything at that time so when my own going and and the elimination was that that was that heartbreaking was that it was like these that I went on the time there was no stopping of the race so and I went on the mountain to fly the next day and during the during the night one other guy said he's quitting so the the next day I was on the on the cut and the other guys will hold a so they were.

00:05:20 - 00:10:04

They were passed liens and a bit. Maybe toward Cillian. I'm not sure and I will still on this site so my idea was to fly this the next day but now the timing was bad so the timing was at twelve the end so it was staying o'clock. The the weather is just not yet ready for flying at the time it will I mean these day was not and still the take off us not really high so I took off at ten. I had not a beep up so I was sliding down and that was it so that was the end brutal did did you ever think about doing it again or Maija. At the time was I want to cross the ups and I didn't came into the race so so much to compete but my idea from the start when when there was to finish I want to do that because we were planning it with. Some other friends foes re longtime kind of like ten years of my flying at the time already so it was like the Cherry on the disdained years and it really felt like that the last day that I flew from begins down. It was not the best flight towards the most today's flight I would describe it because half half of the flight. I was scared then meet the Indians the on the route there was a English issues so I came into these stomach. I'm not sure actually these big lake opinions in Britain down. There is another. Oh Yeah Same Van Santen gap so Ambra mlling much or maybe okay so there is take there and I came in to lead not Gaga. It was a huge Gaga waiting for. Let's start so I came in. I was relaxed now. I'm with some other guys they know. Having some climbing to the top they start there is and I'm going back into the mountains and I'm get getting thinks scheduled again. nobody knowing where you are. You're just you're just a leaf taking on the winds and then I was I was just flying with some self planes. It was super good condition. I went to four thousand something so I was lost. I was lost with we Garmin. GPS No math nothing so he's okay on the ground in the air. I had no idea where they're looking for. The one pass where is this past and what is this valley with. Isa's mortgage is less. I'm looking for this valley couldn't find it and then finally see the pass super small down below because normally people make make the bus on the ground not super low just barely over his bed barely cleared that. I lost but this is a bit further them yeah so. I mean I. I couldn't see the past I mean. I couldn't see the valley where I need to go. It was just mountains because like this so finally I find this valiant and I know where I need to go to an end after after illumination. Did you carry on just by yourself offered you. Keep your team just by myself. Okay I got to hear about the scary landing in Martigny because that is a famous place for wind and never landed down in their feast triangle and a lot of flown in that area a lot but I've always either this year crossing. Their edition was like I don't want to I mean it's like these that some things you just need to know and some things you just find out on your own in these. I found it out on his so problematic there so it was decided start on either up ahead heritage day but in this in this let's say my travel was like fantastic day because I could fly from me that I throw mileage down to Martini. This was like well. We believe the bad weather yeah with all the bad weather before and it's beautiful fly anyway. I was flying the whole flight on the kind of middle of the mountains so really every day but then I reach Martini and it was kind of stable I could could not do anything so before it there's like a small valley going in in the mountains towards north and I was struggling embarrasment to stay up and then I said okay finally after an hour.

00:10:04 - 00:15:11

I think I said okay. It's just not working cannot go up so I went out around the corner and towards Caen and then it's just starting to become stronger and stronger so I'm at some point. I'm going full bar. Thermo is going up and backwards and a bit of collapses and I'm watching. Would I land here because down bound bed. I couldn't see yeah I mean it's huge value but I didn't see the good landings because it was just so many of these for the plans these uh all the senses are lines so I'm thinking you've just the best would be just to go really may be. I mean if if I need to lend just maybe the West district to go in the middle of the valley and even if I get dragged is like some straight channel that I could maybe trek lender and then I see in some village before the there I see a small batch of field like cross some feel like for potato or whatever and I said I will land there so then start to push pool bar in Ed Thermos. Almost I mean thermo is going backwards a bit of collapses and football football football until the ground exactly inside the village inside that battlefield awesome and the one guy came and he just to do like this we the hints like three sketchy because it was and and the traffic signs and to do sometimes when I was backing traffic science select strong wind green then that was the most getty how that race even if you weren't you weren't in the race at that point but but that race will put you in positions that are there tenuous for sure at this was kind of the the the most scanty any moment than the hardest moment was before the Gully by-pass. I was at that time I felt super feet no problems I can lend it bit before so so if because like on the ground until the bus something this I can do today and then finally got the same kind of food poisoning sending in the village with some pizza and I needed three days to get on the bus and then the next day when I also on the top I called a friend where did Alex Hofer to here because I mean this looks likely and he said he took off somewhere exactly where you are so I take off and I head the splash down to the valley. I think it was more than ten minutes SPEC on on the ground. So this was the hardest moment I think because at that moment and then my boss calls me and he says he had a renewed coming home to work and I said the last few more days and then I'm finished so yeah I walked down to Brian soon woke woke the mountain sleep on the mountain and then the first it was the first day that I woke up and they said okay today you fly or you go on the train and you go home. Tom and then with these like the best flight of the whole trip from Vancouver and then just one four Comoran none you had to feel good. I thought I thought it was pretty stylish. In in the twenty fifteen race Dave Turner did the same thing he wasn't. I don't think he was eliminated. but that was the year where nineteen got in a lot of people made it and he was still maybe two fifty or so out waist ended and he just kept going for me may only sense because anyway this is what they came for the share a perfect perfect ending funding before we started recording. You're talking about your history started twenty three years ago. He started ninety six at you. Were quite it lucky to talk about that. How it started and how you got into sport I was. I always wanted to fly so in when I was in elementary interschool that were asking Keats. What do you want to be to do. What you want to do us is I was thinking I want to. What should I say did? Did you live in Libya's. Then mowing can copy so super near and but in in elementary school it was the Slavia per yeah yeah. I hadn't been broken up yet no-no so I'm thinking what should I say that it would be more cool than everyone else so I said I want to be a pilot Edwin her so yeah and then it was always like to things or computer or flying and I I wanted to fly planes.

00:15:12 - 00:20:10

we had the national lottery and there was a huge. I mean that was like famous kind of famous. I think Alon tailplane that you could win. I bought a lottery ticket and I didn't win and then one neighbor said hey why don't you try paragliding and I said Yeah I didn't know anything about it so I might just jump out the mountains until I start to fly complains and then in staten what is really cool about paragliding formalities just opening up the the more you know the more you uh get better. The possibilities are just opening up what more you can do so it was just amazing six years. I was I was just thinking about about these to fly out how to get higher how to fly further and yeah so I was using DOS program. Welcome to to plan my roots eight to be and then yeah so like this was was was cross country kind of understanding. You Start Filing your eighteen. Yes yes. It was cost cross country immediately available to you. Did you know that I mean when I when I get in flying. I didn't know that that was even part of it. I thought you launched there and you landed. I learned that I don't know why it wasn't immediate. Radiate was I think it was actually I wash my first decks house. Which I think was two thousand seven mate what they can travel for me. It was like these exactly like you. I mean I didn't know I was just thinking you can fly down and then I'm thinking I'm wondering I see people higher than the mountains around and I'm thinking how did they get that. then then. I figured out okay you can sold you can climb and then one friend brought up like a paper and he was declining task so what's this cross country so you travel from a to B and then maybe come back just fascinating anything about this. I I was really super lucky with with my friends and I with my instructor and then with my friends around me because they really think pulling me up that I could fly better and just show me what what is possible what they're doing what ceiling happening happening and then making so this week with Talv. You approached. We talked about this a bit with Alex good furniture years than you fly a lot with I was saying before we started recording that I you know I'm kind of an ex contest junkie at home. We have a lot of unflappable days so I'm always checking X. Contest just to see what people have done and then I try to analyze their tracks. That's part of what I feel is a smart thing to do so when I come over here I can hopefully fly bigger lines but it's very often you and Alex when I look at X. Contest that you guys are right there at the top of the score that day. How do we go from. How have you gone from when you learned eighteen twenty twenty something years ago to where you are now? What's been a AH? What's been the key points of that progression? I think the key points is always like go setting goals so I really knowing in what you want even before or have like ideas so in general. I think to have ideas out before. Oh you were actually doing it. It's already a good step and to have. Let's say if you are flying cross country to have an idea what you want to do in that they that will actually happen tomorrow. it's half of the wind because Indiana you're not wondering what to do now. You exactly know what your main goal is and then just breaking up breaking it up step-by-step so you're just dealing with one problem at at at the time so I just like now I need to take off then I need my first term then and so on so and so this is how they progress but the whole picture you have in my opinion you have to have one day before or whatever you have to have it in your mind because when you have when you just go to fly a beat new have you realizing get wow it's a great day you climb to the top the cloud base and then you say well now what you just don't have the land have like what you want to do and that's. Let's say what's missing often any general for me for flying. I think the biggest two things are combination of comps and cross country and I think because we discrimination shine.

00:20:10 - 00:25:02

I think you really learn the most hell to fly really fast and because let's say when I was just flying cross country more in the beginning beginning at one moment to fairly nut trap that you've flying just the days and then you'll read them and everything is just full the a good base and with the combs fly everything and also other people doing because if you're somewhat alone in the in the Eh you have your own idea. You'll doing that but actually you don't see the other options when when you start to fly the car to see what's even possible what other people are doing and yet makes you better so these two and finally if you and it's it's a loop so if you want to win the COMP. I think you need to be really comfortable. Flying on your own finally also it's a it's a loop comps and cross country. I think together like the perfect fixing to really be good in incomes have been a big part of your history. Yes I was basically a started the next year plank up it was like this I start to fly in my doctor said next year so we have the nationalist now and I'm thinking how just quite didn't want to say I want to go but I was just exploding and then he said do also want to go. Hey was the best company way because I was not thinking at all about anything else. I was just just sucking in the the who what was going on. what's the approach that you what's the advice you would give the people that are just getting going into camps where it. Where should the head space be because I've found. There's a tricky transition from you know if you're the sponge you don't care about winning. You don't care about where your result is. You really learn a lot rather than bombing out and kicking your helmet getting to make some notes. What did did I do wrong but then but then you also got a transition to doing well and I think that transition could be tricky for people I I think the tricky can be even before because people come maybe to the comes with really high expectations and then this is just not realistic mystic. I mean that your competitors if you go to a normal heff seen so many more sleight of pictures of the situations share and you're just staffing so I think you should really come with doubt expectation and join the small comes and not stressful in a way. You shouldn't be worrying about the results or anything I when you start. I think we should worry about reaching this should be the first objective and and just seeing what other guys are doing and then progress from that when you can reach the goal at any moment than you can start to think how you can we should foster. How do you approach. Is that a process process. You're thinking about like when we flew an told as well. Is that a process. You're thinking about when you're on these on the unjust. Standard Xi's do you do you have a rhythm of the day that defines how fast you fly yeah definitely definitely I mean it's always the idea thirteen in the morning. You want to stay high and you want to get up and stay high and then during the day you can go lower. Were and you can take more spotify and again the end of the day. You want to to to to go more season. Stay high again. this works flatlands of the most. I mean it's the most obvious and for the mountains mountains it's not really a rule buckeye helps through do it like that. I'm to be more conservative and the beginning at the end of the day. When you're doing struck two or he just do tandems I having stuck to license but I didn't find it too challenging to me and it was just standing on a perfect day in the slope saw somehow. I didn't pick that up so I'm not teaching when when you have I'm assuming though you probably have people underneath you that you're kind of mentoring that people look up to you or they're trying nine to learn from you.

00:25:02 - 00:30:07

What are the kind of the the typical mistakes or the typical things that you're finding with pilots Eh lower level that they need to work on yeah. It's always let's say it's a good question. What is the most important climbing lighting. Whatever else I I think climbing is always the most important so you really need to work on on your climbing and and then after that perceptions of odd lots of these stunts so because other your other people flying boats or whatever is there your health so often I see people sticking with their own thermal and that's just hundred meters yeah and then they don't they don't they don't switch. I mean he's just two hundred meters away. It's like a rocket. Just go. Oh Yeah I was having some guidance and I found it really funny. I had lower be a wink always in for the new guiding guiding for me. It was hard to stay on their level. I mean whatever I would go. Oh it which is go up. I mean just fly around and it will take you up on your on your own them. You don't need to do anything when they are sticking to some more lift than just scratching the lift so yeah getting the. I think what you really what I would what I had the problem. You don't want to bomb belting. Don't want to Bombay just thinking about I don't want to bombard so you're sticking to every smallest correct of lift. You don't don't explore you don't you don't go out to search so just that to accept that finally will bomba out and even if you do so what and this really helps that you're more comfortable exploring their dear it helps also. Let's say uh when you start to do business so if you did one hundred so who cares if you've bombed on fifty or one hundred I mean you want to do two hundred may be so then you can start to fly faster and and don't care about this you bombard on fifty. It becomes really more obvious when you do five five hundred let's say because they knew then until three hundred you have objection at one o'clock on three hundred if I'm not there. It's the same effect bump. I will not to retry funded so then you can fly really faster because you're thinking in this way. You don't care if you won't on three because anyway. If I'm not dead at the time I will not to five and then it means bombed so we can do. I can go faster. How many hours a year do you typically fly Flyer. Do you try to fly so I was flying. I started with a lot so everything possible I was doing four hundred no extra no three hundred ended. I think he was my my best. Third is three hundred. My friend is being four hundred so that's why I got confused but now I'm not doing that than through like one hundred fifty. I think Lilia did was there. was there a time in your in the last twenty three years are thinking about comps but also just standard acce- where there is kind end of a click like like an. Aha moment an nf so what what what was it was the big difference. What will what allowed you to really pick up your game. I mean there was always I mean. There's many clicks but one click for me was around six years. I I think when I had the feeling that now I really know what the wing is telling me and that my hands and the brakes I mean my hang suggest I extensions of the breaks in the wing so this I think was one moment that the kind of I can't even remember like I just know what's happening with the wing after the show I mean that is is lesson. Lesson the most fun part the thing is when you know even less so when more black spots. I think it's more more fun or more trailers. It's is is chasing. These numbers is it Kinda. Charlotte's web in a sense is a you know the the X. Six contests thing you know for like I don't fly much anymore on days like today. It's going to develop. I could go out and get four hours or really good flying uh-huh but I want ten hours and in a sense that's that goes against.

00:30:07 - 00:35:01

I mean how it wasn't the beginning as you're chasing ten. Minutes dishes all exciting six times a day. You just do that anymore and I. It's it it gets to this thing whereas you know okay you get two hundred and then you get to fifty and then you get the three hundred and then you just you know if you don't get more. It's kind of like disappointment. Is That A. I think it's a trip. It's a trip so and I think at one moment like it's a cross country trek. Maybe so at one moment this can happen and the idea for me is like this. I thought that when there was not many tricks there was no cross county online database so I it was just a really a pay per piece of paper in us more community piece of paper and a camera and you need to photo the paper into photo the gliding telling me to photo the way you talk of land at South and it's for me. Let's let's say if you're doing one little many times. It's the same like climbing in a way you didn't reach yet what you want that so if you fly two hundred ninety it's the same like you with climb to the top of this world but then you missing this last game it it quite the last one yeah just buff and again and you do it again and you do it again because he wants to do that and I think people sometimes uh-huh find it like these guys. Flang all the time these but yeah I mean I didn't do anything almost the I like the first time like the best what I wanted wanted to do it now. I can quit so for me. Decide like small challenges and we have here one. We had here one challenge like like this. I mean we were developing a route and it had a lot of world record. Sony and finally there was this final thing we want to do three hundred out in turn the record and it didn't happen for five years and then finally happened for me. I didn't care about that toll anymore. I just wanted to do to finish this route. We have three hundred. We know it's possible we can do it. We just need to do it and then finally we did it and it was really like I got more relaxed easier so now I can go other places this done and other people has maybe be this this the same kind of projects at home and you can get stuck with this thing and then then you don't explore other stuff so when I started the what I wanted to say before he's also that that was many routes open so you did this you did this. Everything was kind of new now. It's not anymore like that so I had to changed. Take my thinking and changed in a couple of ways. One way was that I started to do a lot of hiking fly so this was really for me one hike to the mountain and fly down. It's almost the same good feeling is I would fly five hundred and it felt eh step to feel like I'm beginning again kind of like. I got back about this feeling. I don't care about resorting. Even when I do high conflict I just want to fly down and that's the biggest reward to be again kind of like happy with small things this was one thing and another thing because the routes were at least in my area what I did was I kind of lost what as I can do so with this project finished now Jason. Okay reimagined the map in the mountains. We have so many classic top classic flats roots and people say I mean they're all the time that but yeah did you fly it. I didn't flight so I want to fly. I need to do it so I mean my idea now. I want to do old classics in the ABS. This is my challenge myself. It's like all the big. FAA's line whatever yeah so it's like a reading these do no housing. English expression that you have like a leading schedule or something like this unique to read this checklist. The checklist talk about gliding is a big part of I think this is the most mysterious thing for most pilots. It's until they kind of get it and some maybe this is something in my own find that I have really struggled with over. The years is is finding finding these magic lines.

00:35:01 - 00:40:02

I mean I always think about when you watch Kriegel hideous. Stephen Smokers Kinda like every time you turn. You're going the wrong way half at the time so you've gotta find the better lines. Just keep going when you watch Kriegel track logs when you when you fly with him he he flies straight straight all the time. He's just finding these better lines but teaching that I have found or relating that to somebody is quite difficult cold. Yeah I think actually you should all the time. Maybe it look straight on the map but you basically need to adjust line old time especially. If you're flying with some other friends it's easier than on the COMPASSI super visible Actually this the I realized that you need to adjust the line basically all the time when Johnnie we would on some. I think it was European. OPT in our world up to now. I'm not sure what it was and we were like. Theo bus going back from Dutch design and then finally be schelling and then we needed to cross back for just go to the optional and on in deadline. The air was kind of not really working much when one guy just got a bit of lift. Damini really changed on what's ninety degrees to get on his lines. I'm thinking why is this guy. What did he do this. I mean and then I really start to do this really start to try to adjust the line line all the time and also the exits over the Thelma's. It's super funny. I mean if you were thermal in terminaling just go straight out and the other guy makes up more like not even a detour just small other direction direction. I mean to certain English. Just adjust the line if you will go in the lift like that for the next lexi less than a minute breath he will gain two hundred meters against you and then just just the line again like was the the main line well then you have that other person that has uh-huh showing you where they were. There is still a little bit behind but that's a perfect place. DC's like competition tactics but it helps you also to who think about how you are exiting thermos or how you're adjusting the lines on the cross country and the yeah it's so a small detours or small adjustments can really mean a lot on the line. How how do you approach the like. Let's just take the fly we didn't Antos Day. How do you approach when to climb versus. This is just pressing and pressing and pressing as the day as the day starts middle late late late so yeah like the first breaking it up into a immediate problems albums what I need to do and what I see how to do it. I just to imagine it how you will do it and then what would be the the what would be the extre so if this doesn't work what will be the next one what will be the next move so it's if it's tricky just be more conservative. Let's say this is like the most is the time if it tricky. You're getting low the more conservative you need to be getting more happier with anything you get the Mohi Hi. You're on the east. Have you should be the more you should try to get something better so the beginning of the day yeah you go you. Try to go hi if it doesn't go you scratch everything and then in an towards it's kind of really obvious when at one moment it really starts to work on a good day and then you can fly super fast at that time yeah you rush. You should be optimistic annoyed thinking optimistic that or not I mean you shouldn't be worrying about bombing out. I think this is the most challenging for when you're knowing somehow yard yet newer pilot yet you're on. You're not going to bomb out yes yeah exactly pushing and let's say on the mccreadie scale with a paragliding. We are as soon as it gets sir stronger than three meters.

00:40:02 - 00:45:01

You can basically push as much as you there but still let's say I think that that idea to have better glide so on on the cross country. Don't need to go full bar or if there is. I mean even on comps. I think full the bodies a bit going down in a way that you want to have really good good light so yeah. Let's let's talk about bar. You're on a good day ten hour day. Find a big triangle. What what's the percentage on bar on on your glides. You know what are you mostly at and then give me percentages of how offering on full bar three-quarters half so the the idea is. Let's say you should tell tell everybody while you're fine to yeah. it's the same so. I we would wondering this without on when we were flying in Brazil so do fly. This is just with winter. Do flights the same at home in the mountains or do we fly like class. Finally we are flying exactly the same. you want to reach the next you're super high you see the Thermo you see the huge cloud fooled by and I kind of split my fool by at my body like the points so nobody lot of climbing a little bit always a little bit of Byron the glide when I want best glide at least bit of and this can go to half and then from half on starts to go. I need speed more. I don't need like I need speed so until half I would say I always a bit on the glide and from this let's say one quarter to half or a bit over I would say I need glide or until half outside plight over the half outside speed and because I know it's good I just want to get debt that foster and if you have like obvious it's either the rich orator guy in front of you having a thermal then flew but because you just need speed you just need to get that you're finding Enzo Flung Danza no I believe leave you in our down in the surtout at the same time because you were flying pat to quite a bit and getting some big flights the last time I'm so that your foot launching. I don't think you're part of that toe team. No no thirteen. Okay okay okay so maybe I have that wrong. were you flying pat to. We were crossing it times as you were just doing the towing yeah. We'll just doing the towing I find it super more easy much easier. Karachi zeroed in Petur think you'll always beating the Leo's so you will. I don't want to get myself. I'm just there for flying and I don't want to get myself standing on the takeoff looking at the wind and I think or it's just the best for me to go on the on the L. Field. It's almost no wind they still not on and then when it starts to just a bit of wind it means okay started to work so then you can always try and so super easy to take super-safe and you always in you start from really early. I mean this is. I was never actually sat on these places to foot launch so I don't know the place in this way I just know it in from Ulm winching side and I find that I did I spent eight or nine days into seem where they will guys got the record two years before when I was ourselves there down there two or three years ago and and Rafael and a couple of guys and Samwel and Marcelo came for like three days they they sat there. I believe it's thirty nine days to get that record and they flew three times. It is brutal so the first move is forty k. over this plateau where you're barely got your your basis right on the deck and it's really really windy so you've got to get across this thing and then you start to get established as you start to get closer to. Keiko but I mean you're starting almost on the coast and every night oh the weather looks good tomorrow and then you go out and it's raining or too windy or whatever I mean it was. It was the most brutal patient game I've ever played. It was like I gotta get Outta here if it doesn't work your home by seven am and there's nothing to do just twiddling your thumbs all day but what talk talked about flying in the circle.

00:45:02 - 00:50:02

I loved it. I knew it was good. I mean before my friends will go into these places and somehow is not really convinced any interested but then at one moment when Mackenzie started to do his breakfast five hundred case. I said this is a classic. Look now so I need to to do the classic route. I need to do five hundred list and it was funny. I mean we were copying Boo Galea. We wanted to organize ourselves our own winching on everything and then everything fell apart then thinking al Qaeda when will do this and then I don't close me. I'm driving home and I'm thinking thank you ms when I would do this. I want to Brazil next. They aren't calls me. He says there's another place to want to go. He S and that's how we went Eh. It was Super Fun for me. I really liked to fly with I don it's we have really cool way of of do bad flying when we were all seeing Guardian mountains since on hike and fly we established a couple of ruse how to really really works that you can fly together really well and yeah we used we can use these on cross country and so when we were flying over the Kabuga mountains the first day we were we took off. I mean the first day that was flyable. We took off and we were going really slowly. Were just watching sales. How who will do the move whatever and then we when working for the next day we were. We established like couple of rules. One rule release the lower one always leads the lower. One always needs to do a decision because the higher one can go whatever he wants and the lower one is actually the one who who who needs to do the decision so this is the first to the second rule is that when when the Lord one makes a decision hide one can always blew the same because he's hired so he's going at the same moment because when you reach the next animal when the lower one will meet region next on the a higher one will be there too so you can go up together and fly faster in the Thelma and the we had there anyway the first rule from the first they if one bomb belts held the other bumps out because we are hiking and so we established that if somebody gets away in the thermal he goes down to join and you go up again together so we use these three things and we can flies faster. Is that did you guys talk to Rafael and those guys in my mind. The Brazilians have nailed this team fine him and they're clearly making this work is that is that basically what they're doing as well. I have no idea is based on a date. Show done is that they talked about that in Chilean. Two years ago go at the nationals we had to cancel day and I was behind those guys. I was waiting for some of the law. I never caught up with them but I I remember something along those lines basically the lowest person leads the the highest person at the lowest price bombs out you dial down come up together. I mean this is based. Our ideas based purely on hike and fly so okay yeah. How were you guys approaching it in in Brazil because you've got your towing doing your separated no you it's quite good organization super with orgainzation actually the best. I've seen ever and Utah site by site right. Oh yeah okay so you go by set up you release. W we'll just flies team yeah exactly cool. How so the the day after an olds I didn't go with you guys you went and flew Meyer Hoffman and did a nice triangle there. I watched the avery replay that Alex put up after that you and Alex were like together. I mean really together for two hundred and some k the whole flight. You were just totally together. A- are you communicating beer on the radio. No no the same lose basically kind of spreading this so if you have these rules you don't need the radio. We were flying the book by combatants without radius. We didn't have any radio and here. It's cool would because sometimes you need to have. It's good to have radio because you can discuss a decision and with yeah with Licks we I think with flying similar like the same same principles speed yeah That's that's terrific okay.

00:50:02 - 00:55:09

So are there any other if we missed anything there because I think team points really important. Are there any other kind of principles or things you talk about. Do you guys after the flight discuss it. Do you before the flight you discuss what take me through. Take me through the day they and like you see a big day coming. Take me through even before the day. How are you identifying it weather wise. What are using resources? What are you guys talking about preflight preflight and then. How are you analyzing it afterwards? You know we don't talk so much anymore. I mean it's just a question. Is it good and where is it could Where is the best place so I am. Let's say I was watching always one thing for four Slovenia. we have Alaeddine some service that you can see the weather the the problem with an Westerns have another another one. That's also great. Swiss have another one. That's also great. Everyone has it shown but just for their own country so I I didn't have a really good source of weather info for whatever and now I'm really. I'm trying to learn sky site gliders. that's great. I like it a lot and is foot first discovering the whole world so now I have two things to watch and I say okay one is for at home that I really trust what you're saying to me and another one. I'm still learning being what he's trying to say to me. What will literally than happening happening reality so I'm using these and for a good day basically cleave I watch note under storms no not much color low winds and the term so these three things hydrothermal will go if you will be. Let's say more more than three forecast. three meters per second. Let's say and low winds. Ms Lewinsky means normally less trouble less trouble that means long distance yeah like this so for indentifying good day. I oh I think with the most in the ABS you could say okay up to four thousand meters. let's say the three meter three meters thermos and loud wind everything else who would be problematic. Some some stuff would be tricky tricky so it means it's good. It's okay for flying is good for lying but you will not be able to do whatever you what's your plan. Maybe do you have anything. Can you do preflight or pre that day mentally to prepare or anything kind of thinking about the night before like hey. I've got a big a day coming up. I Wanna I just whatever I do. I have like at least of system so I don't have really at least but I think if you don't have a system you should have at least at least so that everything is really in order that everything would would equipment decided that you have everything this is the most important. It doesn't just come together by itself so oh you should. I think really prepare always to to have a cease them how everything needs to be so perfect. It's perfect you. You don't miss anything when because all the small this this may be seems like small details but finally if something is bothering I mean you cannot go with the empty phone on this kind of the challenge in your mind the whole flight globally than something like this. and let's talk about your job. You work for ya their programming. Is it a scary very time in that space because of what's going on with phones I Yeah I think how a stop to look at it so anyway couple of products one issue and cloud and another is the instruments how I see in general the that the phones and dedicated devices not not just saying for Narita now but let's say when I go I had the let's say at home and then Mac start the episode that to go to Intel so you could even store make o.`Neil Normal pc so I did this and it was working like crap.

00:55:09 - 01:00:01

He does is really not working. YOU NEED TO ADJUST THE MOUSE UNIT TORTURES THE KEYPADS whatever I mean it's a lot of work and it's just not working as is normally working on their own hardware even though it could be lowered lowered handful than your pc so and I had similar experience with Navato made Su Mobile twenty years ago and the time I had it I had big better in my copy and this bucket busy with a few mobile on it and finally it's a lot of cables and a lot of stuff off and is just not working so I'm thinking this way I'm not. I'm not a tinkerer in from this perspective perspective because when I'm doing certain things that I really want to accelerated. I want the best for the job. I you cannot go with the NBA on the championship insure. You need the best glider. You cannot use your phone with the with a sheet. The potential for your climbing on the world championship just want dedicated device. That just works that you don't need to think about it. You need to think about other things like similar when you when you go to cross country in Kyko I mean what is good thing about that. You just need to think about flying you. You don't need to think about anything else. They will take so in a way this way. I'm thinking for sure. Phones are competitors betty tolls for sure I mean there might be some things that will happen also in decide that navigator will at this but dedicated device. I think or dedicated something that pulled the guys that are just want to fly you I oh I think you need a finishing finished product that you don't need to think about it because you have other things you need to think about for sure fucking. Corrales you want different stuff to connect together and play with that stuff. That's another story. Ah If you could rewind the clock to your fifty d. our self so back when you're nineteen twenty somewhere in there and you could offer that promotion advice from what you know now now what would it be. I think many just I I don't know from the top of my head yeah no I. I don't have a I have a say. I don't know I had one actually I was learning to fly hang glider but I had a paddock After evening a tool so I went with glider on the end of the day on my heel behind the takeoff GEICO and it's a cliff social take of upbeat Beck wind and ahead a glider above me on the edge of the cliff and I jumped either way so at jump so he didn't have much energy and I dived than when I dived I was too low to exit the takeoff soy crashing to the tree and that's not too bad not the annoying because you can't laugh for a month what about in our world we have. We we see a lot of stuff. We'd rather not see what are the what what what advice would you give to most. I fifty our pilots and people that are well. Not Most all fifty are people that are listening that are just getting into this sport or get really excited about it be at hang gliding paragliding sailplans. Whatever yeah I think one thing is to really balance or judge. Let's say today or what what do have to lose what we have to gain. So if it's just a flying new soup it looks dangerous. You're thinking dangerous. then at this is maybe already like a warning so and then you just say okay you have a warning and then you just balanced so be just a flight down then it's really a warning and no reward so why do then just go down the mountain mountain will stay tomato.

01:00:01 - 01:05:11

There and you can do the flight tomorrow easy so this would be one thing to to balance. Let's say in the way what what what am I risking what I'm trying to do. What am I. What am I was with this and then another thing India. I think it's always to have like second plan. If this doesn't work what will you do next send often I think flying on the safe side the sexually kind of Goldline so it's not losing that much if you'll be the safer I have re the jittered my thoughts about that exact thing. Recently I was training down in Santa Barbara this March for the accepts done there for a month and the the ocean right there and they're beautiful mountains and but because it's maritime often can be kind of stable the the local pilots would what really stay in but it's it's also in these mountains get a lot of heat and they can be pretty spicy and there's kind of a front line and then there's the back line on the on the big peaks and day after day the the local pilots were really you know they were scre. You're basically scratching for a long ways but in a sense you're scratching. You've got four thousand feet. You can go fly out but they're catching stuff right at the right at the trigger point and just kept flying out front because in the speed was the same but I had thousand feet to work with executive. I didn't really I used to would have always been back there but I didn't really I couldn't understand. There wasn't a reason to do it. Relative altitude is search the key. I mean if you often go somewhat. Let's say deepening the mountain it means it's often means you have less relative altitude took which means the Thelma's really often outside so now this is the one reason yeah yeah. I I have learned learned that you don't you know I think often. This line is a classic example. I I've only done it once now but you know when you start getting into Italy and you go past last forever. The town is your flying through. Some zones that are pretty treed. Land is out there so you really do have to fly quite deep than it has to be quite committed but I have learned that especially as the day starts to get better you can take a lot of lines that are way less risk exactly. I I mean he had it depends a bit like these so if it's no win so it's hard to stay up then yeah and the day's working so it's always a lot of IFS I duNNo so if it's early it's working but it's week so you cannot be released dot the rich so probably it's outside better. If it's middle of the day a lot of wind n you just need to cross this rich so so probably somewhat similar like if you take away so this is the mountain and then you have the wave if you will be on the top of the behind the mountain. You're not really writing the way if if you're more in in front of your writing the way so you're going like that this would be a wave is twenty three years when you're doing these huge triangles. You're going to Brazil. You're getting these big distances. Where do you what do you see. What's your goals. What are your goals now. Where do you see what do you want to be doing. In five years I with PARV lending have now just short goalies we going with With Adam again to brassiere so we want to fly big distance I'm not stressing about it too much so I'm not really if if we don't fly really fired I don't I'm not I'm not really really. I don't have a problem with it but I think we can. We can do five ish we are lucky maybe we can do six hundred and so this is like short term and long term I want to I mean I want to fly the classics India ups. This is my cross country thing and I and I want to be more relaxed about it so I'm training a bit of Acro in high can fly so basically what I did. What I changed. I stopped searching for other sports sports. I did at one moment. I was really searching for other sports. That tried sailing. I tried kayaking. I tried well. I mean a lot of stuff but then finally now I think okay paragliding my thing I I was even flying planes but leading is my thing so now I want to religious space more so last question about comps I've been wondering with the exiles have done the X.

01:05:11 - 01:10:03

APPS now three times and really with my age stuff. I probably shouldn't keep doing that. I love comps and and I really liked the idea of really working at them and making some goals there and doing a lot more cops doing a lot more world cups but I worry about the in a sense you know when you get done with the xbox is kind of the same thing. It's like well. You know I worry about the the fulfillment part of it is in my kind of chasing the rabbit down the hole there where it's Kinda like you know is there. Is there enough film it from even winning a World Cup. Is that something that's really you know because in the end in the big scheme of life in the big scheme of the world who gives a shit exactly the guy on another planet doesn't can't yeah really. I mean you'd be hard pressed to find five people in the sport who remember who won the super final five years ago. It's just not the ED's which one you no. I think that we the we the combs good put let let's say accepts is a completely different thing and when and it's possible to do coverage old everyday interesting because whatever do whatever's happening whatever the weather is. It's always something happening on the coms often eats a lot of waiting and nothing much is happening so I I think for us is more interesting to have on a a combs that you know that will be reliable whether so you can fly there and any it's good to have either objective also like. I mean you need to if you know already the people that they need school to to fly. Why would this be planning needs a good excape. I think from the from working everyday job. It's a nice week in it's the thing is what they like. It is that you don't need really good weather for me. Cross country in concert like cross countries more like I've been may be like you couldn't competitive but let's say just these direction comes is more like wall climbing like artificial so it's more technical you're flying with. France comparing and the weather doesn't matter it's the same for everyone so on the com- site on check the way yeah so. I like to compare to compete with the with offensive ads school who Primo snakes. I really appreciate it. Thanks superfund. It's always a treat people to do live. I hope we get to fly more soon. You and I love to join you guys in Brazil. Actually that's that'd be that'd be a fun trip. Bob and looking at the towing down there very jealous of that and just get a lot more our glue the executive but thanks so much computer way. Eh If you find the cloud base may have valuable you can support it in a lot of different ways. You can give us a rating on itunes or stitcher. However you get your podcast that goes a long ways to help spread the word you can blog about it on your own website or shared on social media. You can talk about it on the way out to launch with your pilot friends. I know a lot of interesting conversations happen that way. And of course you can support US financially. This show does take a lot of time a lot of editing lot of storage and music all kinds of behind the scenes cost so if you can support financially all we've ever asked for as a buck show and you can do that through a one time donation through pay pal or you can set up a troopship service that charges you for show that comes out. We put a new show out every two weeks so for example if he did a buck show and every two weeks it'd be about twenty five dollars a year so way cheaper than a magazine subscription and it makes all of this possible. I do not want to fund this show with advertising sponsors we get asked about that pretty frequently but I grew a whole bunch of different reasons which I've said many any time on the show I don't WanNa do that and I don't like having that stuff at the front of the show and also want you to know that these are authentic conversations with real people and these are just our opinions but our opinions unions are not being skewed by sponsors advertising dollars Nick. That's a pretty toxic business model so I hope you dig that. you can support us if you go to the cloud base. May I'M DOT COM. You can find the places to support you can do it through. Patriot dot com for slash cloud-based mayhem. If you WANNA recurring subscription you can also do that directly through the website. We've tried to make it really easy and that will give you access to all the bonus material a little video cast that we do an extra little nuggets that we find in conversations that don't make it into the main show but we feel like you should hear you.

01:10:03 - 01:10:50

Don't put any of that behind a paywall if you can't afford to support us than just let me know and I'll set you up with an account account of course that'll be lifetime and hopefully you're being in a position some day to be able to support us but you'll find all that on the website all of you who have supported supported us or even joined our newsletter or bought cloud-based mayhem merchandise t shirts or hats or anything. You should be all set up. You should have an account and should be able to access all that bonus US material now. Thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate your support nor she on the next show. Thank you